Bye Bye NAM, Hello Realpolitik!

Re: # 252

Daer Netizen:

I am sorry that you feel this way

[Your/Pak condolences doesn`t mean a zilch as long as the another batch of jihadiS is ready to sneak in from PoK.]

Respectfully submitted,

I am not saying discrimination and hatred is a one way street, it occurs the other way round and happens all over the Subcontinent, Just as Hindus say prejudiced things about muslims, muslims say nasty things about Hindus I have heard every body from a bengali to a punjabi to a muhajir say stuff as I have heard punjabi shanarthis, sikhs, UPites, Jains, Banias, Gujaratis and maharashtrans.

infact this is a universal phenomenon, black/white, gentile/jew. but the onus lies on the state to fix this.


My ancestors may have lorder it over, and i dont approve of it if they did so, i even suport the abolishment of zamindari which was an unjust system. But that was the way of the world then , we live in a diferent age with a different society, state and norms we shouldnt regress and go back to the stone age. the state should be proactive and open schools, offer mid day meals make education more vocational. not that the state doesnt do these things but more proactive and vigorous interest has to be shown in the interest of society.

The state does do stuff but not the substantive stuff, I will give u an example it has a Unani medicine service which runs clinics and hospitals in many large and small towns across India, it gives Haj subsidy but this is not important stuff, muslims can do very well with less religion in their lives. On the other hand a language like urdu which was created in India has been wiped out and the government didnt do anything like teaching in schools etc. forget that even the common language of north india hindustani (intermediate between urdu and hindi) which was understood if not spoken widely until 1947 across India and pakistan has been wiped out, teachers would penalise me if i used a hindustani word in my hindi class or exam paper, and why shouldnt they the syllabus has been set such. The situation is even worse in UP I cannot understand the TV news or what the local politicians say, or even those like the clerk who were educated in hindi medium and the govt ofices which conduct transactions in hindi. Hindustani which was use in common was removed soon after 1947, some of this was the inevitable fallout of partition as Pakistan was non hinduised and india was non muslimised (i use those words purposely because in India and pakistan both western linguistic influence was considered acceptable) and it is also true that these tendencies were strong even before independence in fact that is why partition took place, but in India`s case it purported to be a secular country and it had a large muslim minority so for the sake of social cohesion if not principle such a policy was not wise.


In pakistan the situation is even worse so that some people ask what civilizational comonality do we have with hindus? well the simple answer is from our birth to our marriage and death all the customs we foolow are hindu or more precisely Indic, i.e. that of our ancestors. from the teesra to the tervi on our death and the uptan and mehendi in our marriages to the bridal red, the giving of jahez, the givingh of gifts from the wifes side on the birth of the child, to the obsequisness of the sasur and saala infront of the damad as if he has done a big favour, heck even the songs the women sing on marraiage and child birth in the gangetic planes are the same.

> See if a guys life is miserable and he gets nothing from an entity and society which demands
So only muslims are poor .... Hmmm. Ok.

> escapist tales ... believes to be true...
I think all muslims believe it to be true. Even well to do ones. Thats y jehad gets funded.

> but i found better treatment in the US and UK than I found in my native land, ....
Kindly wait - these countries have not seen Islam as closely as the ones who have suffered it.
Already you are beginning to c the effects in US. The more they know you ....... :).
You get my drift..

regards,
SN

What do you think will happen with these bomb blasts Hindvi ? Perhaps this time the kufr will be scared into giving you jobs and accommodation ?

....why are you so hated in your native land Hindvi ? Why are you denied accomodation , and jobs Hindvi ? Just because of the name ? Why Hindvi ? Why do the kufr hate you so ?

Imagine the gall of those upstart kufrs who you used to lord over for so many hundred years...

wiseguyin
See if a guys life is miserable and he gets nothing from an entity and society which demands his allegiance while on the other hand their is widespread discrimination in society from the renting of accomodation to the polling booth, and certainly at times of riot then he will naturally have higher allegiance to escapist tales of the other world which he with his limited education and exposure believes to be true.


Ranger
I am ashamed to say this but i found better treatment in the US and UK than I found in my native land, i wasnt judged by the sound of my name.

Hindvi...tell me , if you live in the US.....how do people react as soon as they come to know that you are a muslim ? How do people react in India ? Why do they give you that `look` ? Why Hindvi ? Why do they all hate you ?

Hindvi...you are wasting your time. Forget hindus. Most hindus are stupid dhimmis anyway. Post 9-11 the entire world knows about muslims. You are getting hounded everywhere. In US , UK , Spain , Australia and even in France. What will you do Hindvi ? Everybody hates you.

Regarding Ram Janmabhoomi , we say Ram was born there because thats what our faith tells us. Its not for a fanatic following a religion founded by a mad pedophile to tell us whether our beliefs are baseless or not.

Re #279
Hindvi - stop daydreaming. This is the cult of Mohammed that we are talking about. No amount
of reservations/affirmative actions can dilute the effect that ur book has on you.
Remember the riots that erupted in northern england a couple of years back ...
All this mumbo-jumbo of u guys becoming normal is just that - mumbojumbo. Its always
one ``valid`` reason or the other ...... riots in India are blamed on Hindus, riots in England are blamed on whites .... riots in Thailand are blamed on Budhdhists.

The species H0m0 Sapiens and H0m0 Islamus cannot live together. Period. All free socities
are today shuddering because of the crazies that live amongst them.

regards,
SN

Ranger u sincerely believe that is what I am saying

you say muslims created all the disruption but tell me until the Ram Janambhoomi and shilanyas, and the BJPs Rath Yatra and inflammatory speeches in every village and town and distributions of cassetes and videos talking of rapes of hindu women and destructions of temples and the completely baseless allegation of Lord Ram being born in Babri when dozens of other temples in Ayodhta itself claimed that privilige were hindu muslim relations as bad? maybe in certain hot spots like Moradabad and Meerut and kanpur but certainly not across the length and breadth of India.

Haha...Hindvi`s threat : Give us reservation in jobs , else we are gonna blow your markets...

there are many successful muslims in India, but they are those who atleast had some base i.e. were from the middle or upper middle classes, the vast bulk continues to lead a most miserable existence as rickshaw pullers or workers. you would be right if u said that so do low caste hindus, and since these poor muslims are converts from the low castes and untouchables they share the same conditions, but their is a difference the scheduled castes have had reservation since the 50s and even the other backward castes have had reservations for long so you can see them as police constables, sub inspectors and clerks or low level officers in govt., and since it has been some time since their was reservations in the IAS, IPS and allied services now one sees a large number of senior oficers as well or some other forms of empowerment.

plus since many things in india are community and caste based for example a police havaldar or subedar/jamadar in the army from a particular village will recruit other havladers from his village and biradri so their is also nepotism in which muslims loose out for example a punjabi hindu helps fellow punjabis or a tam brahmin helps a fellow tam brahmin but for the muslim they have prejudice, a feeling that he cannot be trusted, and since their are no muslims in senior position he cant get the nepotistic push either.

do muslims from the really poor background not do well academically? yes but then neither do scheduled castes or OBCs or for that american blacks but america creates affirmative action programs for them, that is the hall mark of a progressive liberal society that it creates space for all and allows a share in the pie, it is good moraly, it increases diversity and also its good for creating a cohesive and strong society.

Look at the schedule caste leaders like ambedkar at Independence they were so alienated but affirmative actions and reservations undertaken by Nehru and ome other liberal leaders against the wishes of the majority of the hindu population has paid off and dalits have a greater sense of belonging.

HisChutiyaExcellency....nobody asked for your advise. Get lost.

Re:hindvi#275

You know that hindus, including myself, will never actually go and bomb innocent muslim civilians. It is just not in our nature to do this sort of hideous stuff. Our anger and frustration is because of the situation in the country over the past 20 years due to endless jihadi activities sponsored by our neighbor in the name of religion. In the Indian subcontinent, it is the muslims who behave like Israelis by first creating their own country based on religion. Just like the Israelis mistreat Palestinians and carry out attacks, Pakistanis and their collaborators in India regularly carry out attacks against hindus. So your comparison is actually opposite.

We hindus have always reached out to muslims. Basically whatever they have ever wanted, they have got from us. They wanted to rule India, they did so for 800 years. They wanted to separate themselves into Pakistan, they got it. The only thing we have not conceded is the Kashmir valley to Pakistan. Even there, Kashmiri muslims have all the land and elect their own government and India has allowed soft borders. No matter what has happened, whether it is partition riots or Kargil or Ayodhya attacks or jihadi violence, hindus have remained secular all the time. Muslims are very much in the mainstream in India. Muslims are in every walk of life ad India takes pride in its muslim citizens. Look at the respect it has given to Dr. Kalam and to so many muslim celebrities. This reaching out to a minority is unparalleled in any other country, islamic or non-islamic.

The question to ask muslims is whether they want to peacefully coexist with hindus or are they hell bent on religious conflict. Hindus are happy with the status quo but muslims are not. Every incident whether it is Ayodhya attack or bomb blasts is being perpetrated by muslims. Perhaps it is because they do not rule India any more but then it is their own fault that they separated. If they had stayed back, they could have ruled India via coalition politics. So the ball is really in muslim court.

re: #252

Netizen:

You have 600,000 Indian soldiers patrolling the streets of Kashmir and LoC. For every 10 Kashmiri civilians, there is 1 soldier to watch over them. You have a start-of-the-art electronic fence along the LoC. You have 24 x 7 satellite imaging along the LoC.

And yet you blame Pakistan for infiltrating jihadis into India??

This can only mean one of two things:

a) Pakistan is indeed pushing Jihadis into India. In this case, India should withdraw troops from J&K, stop the 24 x 7 satellite surveillance and dismantle the electronic fence along LoC. Instead, India should spend the taxpayers` money on an alternate strategy that actually reduces terror, instead of increasing it. I have a suggestion: give the Kashmiris their right of self-determination. It will cost less, and will significantly reduce terrorism.

...or...

b) Pakistan and Jihadis are NOT responsible. Indian politicans are taking their junta for a ride with these conspiracy theories and blame game. The real enemy is within India. Some of these enemies are backed by the underworld, others have links with saffron brigade. There are plenty of people who have been wronged by India e.g. Sikhs, Naxalites, ULFA, Kashmiris, Muslims in Gujrat... Any one of them could have been responsible. It could even be a Hindu fanatic like Godse who would blow up his own co-religionists to further the Hindutva cause. Nothing mobilizes the VHP and RSS more than the death of innocent civilians, especially if that civilian happens to be a Mahatama.