Bomb Blasts in Delhi

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Even legitimate causes lose any sympathy with this kind of behavior. Majority of indians dont care if kashmiris or pakistan have any legitimate claims. Their bahvior nullifies any such claims. That is the reason both pakistan and kashmiris elicit no sympathy whatever in India excep by the likes of fringe elements like farzana. I think future looks bleak for both India and Pakistan as they are both heading for a point of no return.

Pakistan and India must continue the dialogue and the peace process.

There are elements that do not want to see the two countires living together in peace. The group responsible for the Delhi blast is bent upon getting Pakistan and India to a fateful war. That is their agenda, and the hate that exists between the hawks on both sides of the border is their trump card. To them, violent killing of innocent people is the catalyst and the route to getting Pakistan and India to a war.

That group group seeks annihilation and must be stopped. Pakistan and India must not fall in that trap and must work together to catch the culprits and bring them to justice.

Whilst natural disasters rape the valleys and mountain ranges of our precious yet precarious Sub-continent, human Hitlers are hell-bent on carrying out a Guillotine in Sarojini Nagar and Govindpuri.

What adds salt to the wound is that this prostitution happens at the prologue of Eid and Deewali. Dastardly carnage and smoke pervades dark Dehli with scores of wounded innocents.

While Manmohan Singh and media vultures toe the official realpolitik and blame ``terrorists`` there should be further forensic and ballistic evidence before jumping the gun. Only then will a more just and informed prosecution take root. And may it be hard in its execution.

Let the informed readership at Chowk refrain from vomitting incitement and investigate themselves before succumbing to racism and ethnic bigotry.

A too often-trodden path in these electronic corridoors.

Keep your lighters up.

Hold a vigil up for all the victims today in Dehli.

A moment of silence for Dehli.

A moment of silenbce for the earthquake victims in Pakistan.


Ozer

Misinformation

This is precisely the kind of misinfo that the pakistanis try to spread. The blasts have nothing to do with diwali, but all to dod with the sentencing of two pakistanis, supposed to take place on saturday.

It is the same forces that hijacked a plane and secured the release of Asghar now a prominant political leader in pakistan and the other chappy, some omar , released from india and now sentenced to death for daniel peral killing, but not and not likely to be executed.

Time that the pakistanis accepot the relity of their society. At last another pak hero has come back, the london bomber. After all the talk about UK born terrorism, the reality has come home, the remains of the shahedd is given awarm welcome in the home town of faisalabad and burried with all of islamic hounours. The great shahedd, Tanweer, the so called nothing to do with pakistan, hero of london bombings.

Re: # 5

Jay

You leave no doubt that your vision of India is full of hatred of Pakistan; that your vision, strategy, and road to Indian prosperity and power is via destruction of Pakistan. You are no different, at least in your thoughts, than the ones responsible for the Delhi blasts.

Re: #3 by godot

[That group group seeks annihilation and must be stopped. Pakistan and India must not fall in that trap and must work together to catch the culprits and bring them to justice. ]


So for those of us who are lesser intellects, here is a direct question:

SO WHAT IS THIS GROUP THAT HAS CAUSED THE BOMB BLASTS?

Just the name will do, thank you.

Looking forward to the answer.

This horrible event is, sadly, going to be a heaven-sent for all members of the Pak-Bharat Dushmani crowd from both sides of the divide. Their agenda benefits, they have the motive.

But who are they?

Pakistani and/or Bharati extremists elements who do not wish to see the two sides burry their hatchets and get on with the job of building a future for their peoples.

I say, follow the money... and figuer out who gains from the political fallout that eminates from this nasty episode?

Re: #8 by SR

[But who are they?

Pakistani and/or Bharati extremists elements who do not wish to see the two sides burry their hatchets and get on with the job of building a future for their peoples. ]

Kind of like a 50-50 deal, eh? Everyone is equally good or bad?

According to CNN, a Kashmiri extremist group has claimed responsibility.

So then what happened here? They did it hand in hand with their RSS brethren, eh?

And the RSS are keeping shut letting the chronically honest extremists claim responsibility?

Have you EVER considered the possiblity that Muslims like you (and those are in the majority, I think) are seriously deluded, and just CANNOT face facts?

The REALITY, my friend, is that all religions are NOT the same. Just like all philosophies are not the same.

The REALITY is that those extremists, and those extremists alone, did it.

Stop lying to yourself.

Re: #6 by godot

[Jay

You leave no doubt that your vision of India is full of hatred of Pakistan; that your vision, strategy, and road to Indian prosperity and power is via destruction of Pakistan. You are no different, at least in your thoughts, than the ones responsible for the Delhi blasts]


I think I speak for the overwhelming majority of Indians when I say that India DOES NOT CARE ABOUT PAKISTAN. As far as we are concerned, the best scenario would be a 1000-foot high wall between the two countries, or better, see Pakistan drift away on a continental plate along with its superior-looking (according to lot of Pakistanis on this forum) people. Drift away, and disappear completely.

We don`t like you, we don`t want you, we do not want any association with you. You are like the plague we are trying to avoid.

Get this into your thick heads.

Timing of the blasts may hold the key

Udayan Namboodiri / New Delhi


The Group that carried out the Delhi bombings on Saturday may have budgeted for a major communal conflagration in the Capital and wider northern India to convert a week of celebrations into one of riots.
No Looking back: Shoppers back at Sarojini Nagar market on Sunday - PTI

A day after the serial blasts, when firm leads were yet to emerge, sources in the national security establishment grappled for general trends and saw the unmistakable signature of the Pakistan-backed Lashkar-e-Tayebba behind the whole tragedy.

The Ayodhya attack and New Delhi cinema house blasts earlier this year were early indications of the LeT`s strategy. Those had failed to make an impression and so its planners could have imagined that using the Diwali-Eid week for an operation was a better way to destabilise India. In its estimate, a riot during Diwali and Eid would certainly have been a spectacular event.

``The timing of the blasts could hold the key to their motive,`` a senior official said. ``It happened during the time of Iftar when Muslims were sure to be indoors breaking their fasts. That way the terrorists ensured that only non-Muslims got killed or injured. If they wanted to kill in an indiscriminate manner targeting both Diwali and Eid shoppers they would have struck later in the evening when the crowds would certainly have been thicker.``

The choice of Paharganj- and not Chandni Chowk- was equally significant. Firstly, being the approach road to the New Delhi railway station, a large number of victims would have been claimed. Secondly, that part of the walled city is more cosmopolitan than Chandni Chowk or Sadar Bazar. International tourists could also be hit.

Though a group calling itself the `Islami Inquilab a Mahaz` has claimed responsibility, it is nothing more than one of those typical signboard organisations which the LeT props up each time a strike is carried out. Several such names have been thrown at the media in the past -`` Salvation Front``, ``Al-Afreen``, ``Al- Mansoorian``, etc. as red herrings. They protect the image of Pakistan where the top leadership of Lashkar enjoys State patronage.

Another important thing about the Delhi blasts was that none of the locations saw a fidayeen (suicide) operation. For one, no traces of bodies with telltale marks of dismemberment by self-generated explosives have yet been found. What is more, a couple of eyewitnesses have given Delhi Police`s sleuths a general description of a suspect already. A man who arrived in the bustling Paharganj market in a rickshaw carrying a suspicious bag is now the focus. He apparently got off leaving a suitcase on the rickshaw and asked the rickshaw-puller to wait for him. The man never returned.

Minutes later, the bombs went off killing the rickshaw-puller. Delhi Police has been able to generate a sketch of this suspect based on the descriptions given by the eyewitnesses at Paharganj. Though 20 others have been picked up from various places around town over the past 24 hours, none of them amount to anything substantial.

It may be recalled that a LeT operative called Kamran (now lodged in Tihar jail) had set off nearly 30 blasts in and around Delhi over a three-month period. Each time he targeted shoppers at weekly markets attracting lower middle-class shoppers and managed to claim two-three lives per strike. The bombs were all low intensity and based on dyes, which he procured from factories in the Ghaziabad area.

When caught, Kamran confessed his links with the LeT, the presence of in-laws in Pakistan and a support network spread all over Delhi and Uttar Pradesh. In fact, he was one of the first terrorists to use the now commonplace Bangladesh route to enter India.

SR#8: For a long time every blast that occured in Pakistan, was blamed on RAW. Much like every blast in India is blamed on Pakistan............Hardly anyone was caught in either case.......

However, for the past two years or so, Pakistan has stopped blaming everything on RAW. In fact, hardly anything gets blamed on RAW, nowdays. Despite the fact that there are far more blasts in Pakistan, than in India (not countring Indian Kashmir).

Another interesting factor is that a lot of the criminals carrying out the blasts are getting caught in Pakistan. This includes the Sunnis who were killing Shias. The ones who killed the French Engineers. The ones who killed Daniel Pearl, etc.

I think the change occured, when Pakistan starting utilizing the services of foreign experts in investigating the various acts. I think the Americans etc. have given Pakistan quite a bit of sophisticated equipment to catch such individuals. In addition, by opening up these investigations to the world, and utilizing foreign agencies, the excercise in Pakistan has gained a lot of credibility.

This is what India should do. There shouldn`t be a knee-jerk reaction to blame Pakistan. So far that hasn`t happened. And it should utilized foreign investigative agencies and equipment to augment its own, in the research process. That will give it a lot of credibility and will assist in catching whomever did this...........

Otherwise it will turn into a case of he said, she said........

It is time humanity should realize that the modern terrorism though mostly committed in the name of Islam, Kashmir, etc., has nothing to do with any humane cause but is blatant anti-human killer mania. Its causes lie too deep to be tackled by security organizations as a normal security and law and order problem in a half-hearted fashion, as these organizations are wont to do. It requires motivation of entire humanity to wage a total war against its root causes, which lie deep in human psych. In fact these `NGO` terrorists are doing the same thing as `GO` terrorists have done or intend to do with their WMDs, like nuclear bombs. Z.A. Bhutto, while PM of Pakistan, had openly declared that he would have an atom bomb even if he had to make the people eat grass. He did get the bomb, but it could not provide safety for his own self even and the people of Kashmir, the Aazad one, have been made to eat grass by the natural nuclear bomb of the earthquake.

Allama Iqbal had said:

Khudawanda yih tere saadah dil bande kidhar jaaen
kih darweshi bhi ayyari he sultaani bhi ayyaari

(O God where these simple human beings are to go when both the state and the Islamic monks are cheaters) One can add `terrorist killers` in place of `cheaters`.

Re: # 10

Ajeya

``We don`t like you, we don`t want you, we do not want any association with you. You are like the plague we are trying to avoid.``

That is precisely the mentality of the group responsible for the Delhi blasts. That is precisely the bone stuck in the throat of India Pakistan relation and the peace process between the two countries. That is precisely the mentality on both sides of border that is holding everyone else hostage. Welcome to the club of the Jehadis seeking annihilation.

Here`s my two cents:

http://www.vinnomot.com/Kisan/DelhiBlasts.htm

Romair:

``However, for the past two years or so, Pakistan has stopped blaming everything on RAW. In fact, hardly anything gets blamed on RAW, nowdays. Despite the fact that there are far more blasts in Pakistan, than in India (not countring Indian Kashmir).

Another interesting factor is that a lot of the criminals carrying out the blasts are getting caught in Pakistan. This includes the Sunnis who were killing Shias. The ones who killed the French Engineers. The ones who killed Daniel Pearl, etc. ``

The two are connected. The Pakistanis did blame RAW for the blasts in Karachi till they found out it was Jehadi groups that did it. Even the attempts on Musharraf were done by Jehadi groups. The guy who killed Daniel Pearl was released by the Indians in exchange for the hijacked Indian Airlines plane. That whole operation was given ISI logistical support in Kathmandu. In fact, RAW supported Indian groups had orchestrated an attack on the main ISI person there but he survived. Later the same person, Moh`d Arshad Cheema was arrested with a load of RDX, even though he was a secretary in Pak Embassy in Katmandu.

I am including a Nepal news URL. The point is that the Jehadi monster is an ISI creation through and through, and bomb blasts in India and Pakistan both are being traced back to them. But, the ISI cannot go after the Jehadis because that is their only card in Kashmir. Pakistan Army does not want to sacrifice its own manpower for the liberation of Kashmir so it is the Jehadis that provide the cannon fodder.

http://www.nepalnews.com.np/contents/englishdaily/ktmpost/2001/apr/apr17/

Spy Vs Spy: Kathmandu turning into an intelligence hub

By Suman Pradhan

KATHMANDU, April 16 - Just a day before Muhammad Arshad Cheema, the erstwhile First Secretary at the Pakistan Embassy in Kathmandu, was scheduled to depart for home last week, he got into trouble. Big trouble.

A large cache of high energy RDX explosive was found in the Baneshwar apartment where Cheema was staying with his wife. Police, as a result, detained the Pakistani diplomat for over 24 hours before the government finally expelled him - for conduct unbecoming a diplomat - in the face of strenuous Pakistani protestations.

The episode may have been one more diplomatic flap in Nepal-Pakistan relations, but knowledgeable sources in government say, it also underscored once again just how far Kathmandu has gone into being a playground for regional intelligence agencies.

This city of 1.3 million today is a fertile ground for spies and counter-spies, informers and recruiters. Most are from neighbouring countries, notably from India and Pakistan whose RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) and ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) agencies respectively are engaged in a perennial game of one-upmanship.

But the Chinese too have a keen interest in the happenings here as do the Bhutanese, whose officials are currently sparring with Nepali counterparts over the fate of the 100,000 Lhotsampa refugees stranded in camps down in Jhapa and Morang. And if world events are any indication, the recent spy plane row between the USA and China is only likely to increase the Americans’ interest in Kathmandu, given its physical proximity to China, as it did during the Cold War.

Security officials, requesting customary anonymity, point out that the situation of Kathmandu today is not unlike, say, Cold War-era Vienna or Berlin where East and West bloc spies vied to outmaneuver one another. Only in this case, the most active intelligence operatives have come from within the region.

``If anyone thought that Cheema was arrested purely through efforts of the Nepal police, then he is mistaken,`` acknowledges a security official. ``The Nepal police was assisted all the way by foreign intelligence.``

In fact, the officer who raided the Pakistani diplomat’s apartment, District Superintendent of Police Madhav Thapa, also pointed to a ``special source`` when asked from where the tip had come from about the explosives.

These ``special sources`` also aided the police sting operation in late 1999 when another Pakistani diplomat was caught red-handed in Kathmandu with counterfeit Indian banknotes. No prizes for guessing who these ``special sources`` are.

What attracts the rival intelligence agencies to Kathmandu is Nepal’s unique position in South Asia. This Hindu Kingdom has friendly relations with both the neighbours, has a comparatively open and liberal society (at least in Kathmandu), and direct air links to both India and Pakistan. Nepal also shares a long open border with India.

But perhaps most important of all is that, Kathmandu is crawling with locals, both government officials and private citizens, who are only too eager to assist or provide information to anyone for a price. Foreign intelligence agencies thrive in such a cash-first environment.

Case in point: the 16 kgs of RDX that was seized last week. How is it possible to smuggle such a large amount of the deadly explosives - by some estimates, enough to blow up an entire neighbourhood - without some sort of complicity somewhere?

``It’s difficult to understand,`` says a police officer. ``Such a large cache of explosives sitting around in an apartment is difficult to understand. It raises several serious questions about our monitoring capabilities.``

Coming back to Cheema again, it is ironic that the man should have found himself in trouble just a day before leaving Nepal for good. He may well have been a diplomat, but he had been accused by Indian intelligence of being the ISI’s point man in Nepal. Indeed, during the Indian Airlines hijacking episode of December 1999, the Indian press, quoting unnamed Indian officials, fingered Cheema as the person who had aided the hijackers in Kathmandu.

But Pakistan vigorously denied the charges then, and did so again after the latest episode. The Pakistani Embassy here last week came out with a scathing statement charging that Cheema had been ``framed on false and fabricated charges.``

The tit-for-tat intelligence game played here has often put the Nepal government in a difficult position. It values its relationship with all the neighbours, but does not relish its territory being used as an intelligence playground.

``Our position is that we will not allow Nepali soil to be used against any of our neighbours,`` Foreign Minister Chakra Prasad Bastola has reiterated several times in the past. But that is unlikely to deter rival agencies. Just like Cheema’s case is not the first such incident, it won’t be the last either.

More details of ISI- Jehadi collusion in Indian Airlines hijacking. Notice that it is the same person, Cheema, blamed for very different incidents, even by the Nepalis. Also, it is RDX that was used in bomb blasts in Delhi yesterday, Bombay few years back...

INDIA AND NEPAL

The playground of the spies

The seizure of a large quantity of RDX at the house of a Pakistani diplomat stationed in Kathmandu buttresses the impression that the city is being increasingly used by espionage agencies of all sorts.

RAVI SHARMA
in Kathmandu

IF at all any more proof were needed to show that Nepal, and more specifically its dusty capital city of Kathmandu, is being increasingly used as a playground by regional espionage and intelligence agencies, it came on April 12 when the local police discovered a large quantity of high-energy RDX (research department explosive) in a house occupied by the Pakistani Embassy`s First Secretary in Nepal, Muhammad Arshad Cheema.

The incident was telling in two ways: one, it was another indicator of the involvement of Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) operatives in Kathmandu in orchestrating anti-India operations; and two, it pointed to the active presence in the Himalayan kingdom of India`s own external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). As sources in the Nepalese Home Ministry averred last fortnight, there was no way the Kathmandu Police could have traced the RDX unless they had been tipped off and even helped all through the operation by `special sources`. And there are no prizes for guessing who those `sources` were. The same sources had helped the Nepal Police apprehend another Pakistani diplomat in late 1999 in Kathmandu with bundles of counterfeit Indian currency notes.

http://www.flonnet.com/fl1809/18091260.htm

And though the expulsion of Cheema by Nepal a day after the RDX seizure - despite fierce Pakistani protestations - for conduct unbecoming of a diplomat (the terminology used when a diplomat is caught spying), put a temporary end to the unsavoury turn of events, it has highlighted Nepal`s inability to keep itself free of third-country spies. As Foreign Minister Chakra Prasad Bastola told Frontline, ``Friends are turning Nepal into a hotbed of intelligence agencies.``

``And it is not just the ISI and RAW that have been active in Nepal. Besides the Chinese, who have always had a keen interest in this neck of the woods, and the Americans - whose interest in the region flagged after the end of the Cold War but is now likely to grow in the wake of the U.S. row with China over the spy plane incident - there is also the presence of a smaller player, Bhutan, in the espionage game. Bhutanese officials are currently discussing with their Nepalese counterparts the future of over 100,000 Lhotsampa refugees stranded in camps in Jhapa and Morang in Nepal`s eastern Terai belt. Foreign Ministry officials, while reiterating that the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had indeed been very active in Nepal during the years of the Cold War, say that it is now only a matter of time before the agency stepped up its presence.

According to sources in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, if the current trend of intelligence and counter-intelligence operations continues, Kathmandu could soon end up being what Berlin or Vienna were during the Cold War, when spies from the Eastern and Western bloc countries vied with one another in a long-drawn game of spy versus spy. Making Kathmandu attractive in this respect is Nepal`s unique geophysical location, friendly relations with both India and Pakistan, a long and highly porous border with India and direct and extensive air links with both protagonists. The availability of a ready stream of local informants and recruiters from among both government officials and private citizens, who have been lured by the prospect of good money, has added to the ease of operation.

With the arrest and expulsion of Cheema, Indian officials in Kathmandu exude an air of I-told-you-so. They had for years seen Cheema as the ISI`s man in Nepal in charge of covert activities - which Pakistan consistently denied.

Cheema was in the news first when he was accused by none other than Nepal`s Inspector-General of Police of handing over 30 kg of RDX to a Punjab militant in 1998. His indirect role in the hijacking to Kandahar of an Indian Airlines aircraft, IC-814, during a flight from Kathmandu`s Tribhuvan airport to Delhi in December 1999 has also been talked about. According to informed sources, Cheema along with two of his associates, Zia Ansari and Abdul Rais Khan - a Nepali Muslim - had been spotted around Tribhuvan airport on the day of the hijacking. According to some reports, Cheema was a regular in the Pakistan Army before being drafted into the ``diplomatic service``.

In the present instance, Cheema, who had completed his official tenure in Kathmandu and was to have left Nepal on April 13-14, could find no escape hatch when a police party led by Kathmandu District Superintendent of Police Madhav Thapa raided the rented house in Baneshwar and found the RDX in a cupboard on the first floor. Cheema and his wife had been staying there for around a week. Cheema, who claimed that he had left his diplomatic quarters hardly a week earlier to stay in the house of a friend, denied any knowledge about the RDX and alleged that someone else had planted it there. The building also housed the offices of Sachel Engineering Works, a construction company run by Pakistani national Hussein Cheema, that maintains a stretch of the Mugling-Pokhara highway around 100 km from Kathmandu.

It is stated that the RDX was brought through the diplomatic channel from Pakistan for use against soft targets in India. It could also have been smuggled across the Chinese border. Explosives originating in Nepal have in recent months increasingly found their way into India`s troubled northeastern States and also Bhutan.

The discovery of such a large quantity of the deadly explosive substance left the Nepalese security agencies red in the face, once again proving the lapses in Nepal`s monitoring mechanisms in Kathmandu. Said a member of the police force: ``The fact that so much of RDX was sitting around in an apartment goes to show the lapses in our own system and also the involvement of a number of local people in the operation.``

COINCIDENTALLY, Cheema`s arrest came close on the heels of the Nepal government`s decision, on `technical grounds`, not to grant permission to Space-Time, a television network allegedly funded by Pakistani intelligence. The Space-Time network has in the recent past been seen as the hub for launching anti-India propaganda, as happened when it mischievously and wrongly publicised remarks purported to have been made by Hindi film actor Hrithik Roshan. A source close to Foreign Minister Bastola said: ``As things stand, the Space-Time television network has been short-circuited by the government. But the daily newspaper (brought out by the group) continues to come out from Kathmandu.``

The lifting of an earlier ban on the controversial network, which is currently run by Jamim Shah, a Nepali of Kashmiri descent, had resulted in the resignation of Nepal`s Information Minister.

For Nepal, the growing activities of regional intelligence agencies on its soil do not augur well. Nepal would like to maintain good relations with all its neighbours, and it certainly would not like its territory to be used as a playground for intelligence agencies of all sorts. A senior official in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said: ``We are being used as a football ground by the ISI and RAW.``

Informed sources said that the Ministry has been in touch with Indian friends regarding the possibility of launching joint action to curb ISI activity in Nepal. Minister Bastola said, ``Nepal is committed to stopping this sort of activity.`` But does it have the wherewithal to do so and, more important, the will?

Re: #16 & 17

You seem to have taken over from that esl teacher in cut-n-paste. If you don`t have anything original to say, keep quiet and spare the reader from scrolling down long pages.

Re: # 14

godot:

i would like to advise you not to expect much from these talks.

its going to end in a stalemate. pak will ask for land in lieu of shutting the jihadi tap and india will politely decline it, offering porous/soft borders.

the peace-talks are going to fail irrespective of whether the bombing took place or not. ofcourse unless pak doesn`t want any piece of land or india gives away the valley happily. which is not going to happen.

Re: # 19

Netizen

``the peace-talks are going to fail irrespective of whether the bombing took place or not.``

I don`t share your pessimism. There are smarter people on both sides of the border. What we see in Europe today was not a result of us vs. them, but that of a mutual understanding and a vision of the future for the region.

This is a battle between the hate-mongers and the sane. Let the sanity win.

re: the Delhi blasts
I was of the opinion that Pak is not behind the blasts. Now, i am not so sure.
It does seem a foolish thing to do if indeed Pak did it. Cabinet committe in delhi seem to have come to the conclusion Pak is behind this.
Of course, do not expect India to do a thing. What is the cheapest dispensable thing in India. Clue: what is it that is in abudnance and freely available? Population of course. Unless the jehadis kill some cabinet ministers or some people of consequence, nothing much is going to happen. It will be back to normal in a month.
India is a soft state. It is laughable that it wants to be a major player in the world when it is unable to take care of a puny little country like Pakistan. If all Indians were to decide to go near the wagah border and pee directing the stream towards Pakistan, latter would drown. But the problem is Indians pee in different directions. Net effect is unimpressive.
Sridhar

Re: # 21

``Indians pee in different directions``

When they pee in the direction of Pakistan, they don`t realize that the wind is blowing against them.

Re: # 20

godot:

i like to be a realist neither optimist nor pessimist.

I just wanted to brace you for the outcome, wait and watch.

Re: # 20
godot:

``This is a battle between the hate-mongers and the sane. Let the sanity win. ``

there are hate-mongers and sane people on bith sides. the question here is who is going to yield first? who is going to take it for peace. doesn`t look like any one.

All posters:

Pakistanis mean no harm to India or Indians. You have your own path to follow and we have our own.

Pakistan works very closely with the Governments and the military of the USA, UK, continental European countries (like e.g. Italy, France and Germany), China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philipines and now Australia. We have decided that we will go ahead with the peace process started with India and supported fully by all the above mentioned countries. Pakistan`s stance has been appreciated by all and sundry.

As an aftermath of the earthquake in Pakistan, a typically worrying aspect of Pak-USA relationship has come to an end. The dislike for America by an average Pakistani has been replaced by goodwill for the USA.

In due course of time, Pakistan will also recognize Israel. We already have both formal and informal channels open where the dialogue is continuing.

As regards our relations with India, peace process for us augers well. Lot of Indian businesses have headed for Pakistan establishing their offices, partnerhips, trade and software development centers. Economic activity between the two countries will only increase. This may be disliked by the extremist elements in both the countries, whose sole gain is when the two countries battle each other out, but this is the only way forward.

The Government and people of Pakistan have resolved that we will not fall into any trap of derailing the peace process. Indian Government may go ahead and may pass anti-Pakistani remarks here and there, we have proactively ensured that the powers that be fully understand what the reality is.

For Pakistan once again, peace within and peace without is the way to go forward. We have already begun to achieve some of our major objectives.

Pick up all women under 25 in Kashmir and ship them off to Tamil Nadu. The Masanamuthus would be happy to have fair-skinned wives, Romair would be happy to see the basic complexion of South Indians improve, there will be a stop to the reproduction of Kashmiris and there will be no Kashmir problem in 26 years after the current crop dies off and there is no replacement. Also, institute a free-fire zone throughout Kashmir.

Stop all aid to Kashmir (including Indian side) so that the fcukers can freeze to death this winter.

Institute pants-drop-down tests at all public locations to identify the religion of people. Muslims to be segregated and put on their own buses and train compartments so that they can take their people with them to jannat.

Oh, make Narendra Modi Chief Minister of Kashmir, UP, MP and Bihar. I think he has the bandwidth to handle all four states.

All of this ought to get the Islamic thugs under control.

Re: # 25

ahmadzai:

``Pakistanis mean no harm to India or Indians. ``

as long as the jihadi network exist in pak/PoK, india and indians will be harmed.

all we want is to dismantle the jihadi infrastructure and/or help us to manage the jihadi infiltration. it would help both the countries by combatting this jihadi menace.

Re: # 25

ahmedzai,

......... aap kay mun mein ghee shakar .........this is all well and good, but i just saw this guy on ary (dr, aniq ?) talking to a bearded mullah and a non-bearded mullah - they both agreed that muslims could not be ``friends`` with the kufar, specially the yahud !.......... and they both used ``authentic`` hadiths to make their case ......... as long as muslims are fed this kind of crap there is no hope and i cannot blame the horrible hindoos and other assorted kafirs for being suspicious of the ummah`s true intentions !............ of the other two channels, one had an idiot alim talking to a crowd of women in shrouds, and the other was showing taraweeh prayers at the mecca disneyworld ............. there is something terribly wrong !

Re: # 28

hamid:

It is a reality that the average Mulla will continue to talk crap, that the media will continue to project their viewpoints, especially in Ramadan, and that a few extremists (counterparts of Indian extremists) will continue to believe them. However, it is also a reality that an overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are not extremists, they do not listen to the Mulla or to Taraveeh prayers broadcast on ARY but to Music. They watch fashion shows and movies and those who can`t are working their butts off to find decent living. All businessmen in Pakistan and India want the peace process to go forward for mutual gains. It is economics that will prevail, not the narrow minded version of religion as described by a rejected few.

In my earlier post, I have briefly outlined our blue print. This is the reality. Although some elements or even a country`s Government as a whole may try to derail the peace process by accusing Pakistan here and there, we will not get de-focused. The powers that be have Okayed the path we have chosen.

Godot: STFU!!

Ahmadzai:

`` It is economics that will prevail, not the narrow minded version of religion as described by a rejected few``

That is what one hopes. But the narrow minded version of religion was advocated by the Pakistani establishment during Zia`s time onwards and has not been countered in a serious way yet. Okay, maybe it has been after Musharraf was attacked, but there still seems to be a reluctance to grab the bull by the horns.

I don`t know if we have reached the end of history but we have certainly reached the end of conventional wars...wars where 2 professional armies face each other and fight to the last man or decide inbetween who won.....one side surrenders, other hugs and they talk peace.

We will see for a long time this unconventional warfare AKA terrorism. Any country who tries to fight it in a conventional way like Dubya is trying will be stupid and find itself in troubles and will be shamed for violating even slightly from those great war rules compiled in 29th century in Geneva....while unconventional soldiers maim and kill civilians in sabzi mandies, schools and trains.

One side will have to change or we will see more if this for long time.


Hamidm: Geo is showing free promotional these days.....man...after listening sermons of TV mullahs, I feel like hugging our chowk mullahs - these guys sound almost fake compared to real ones. what a mixutre of fire, hatred, piousness and self delusion!!

correction: 20th century

hamdim mian #28: There is something wrong everywhere. Every country has its Jerry Fallwells and Pat Robertsons. And dare I say even George Bushs. As well as Christian Rights and Evangelicals. Not to mention the RSSs and BJPs.....

You are concentrating too much on them in Pakistan. And not enough on them in other countries. Of all these countries, the ones in Pakistan are the least powerful. If they get a few hours on TV, that`s OK. Everyone deserves a chance to put up their arguments. There are quite a few other things on TV also.......I have always felt you are far too obsessed with narrowing in on just the few hours that they are on.........Jerry Fallwell, alone, is worth more than all these guys combined. And he openly states that anyone who does not consider Christ his savior is going to hell. And 23% of the USA population believes him.....

Don`t look at the people`s appearance. Look at their actions. If every mullah and every athiest in Pakistan, rush into an earthquake, to help others, then their heart is generally in the right place. And that is what counts...........Let everyone speak their mind on TV and in other places. Pakistanis are quite sensible. They want neither the mullah nor the merlot.........

Only the Indian government should be blamed for failing to deal with terrorism.
Terrorism is not a new problem for India. It’s been happening for the last twenty five years. Sikhs were the most brutal terrorists in India. It is the only country in the world which lost two prime ministers to terrorism. What preventive measure India has taken so far to deal with it? Diddly squat! It seems to me that Indian security personals are a bunch of hosebags.

It has $100 Billion in reserve, spends Billions of Dollars on Security and military, has the a booming IT industry and most likely the smartest people of the world live in India, but it can’t take care of piddle little terrorists that are using home made devices to rattle the whole country in to Crying. Spend some of the wealth to take care of the security.

How world’s fourth richest country could allow this? It is an accomplice in killing its own population because only talk and blame will not solve this problem.

Why should they blame anyone for terrorism? If you are not going to put your resources where your mouth is then you are going to wail like newly widowed woman every time some one launches a bomb from a bicycle.

I mean Indian people and the government are the strangest people in world. You have a problem you deal with and stop crying like wimps and blaming others.

The US took care of the problem and no more terrorism in the last four years. Europe, the prime target of terrorism has only two major attacks on it in the last four years.
Why Indians can do anything? Simply, the Indian government has conditioned its population to blaming others for the problems.

You know what happens when you have a conditioned response… you get a biscuit in reward.

Never been prouder of being a Delhiite than lately. Been going all over town in buses and must say, did not see any sign of any communal or other tension.

The amazing thing is that while certain elements of the foreign press go about trying to portray an ``emergency`` situation, ground reality is that life goes on.

The streets are as full as always, and so are the shops. Less than 24 hours after the blasts, the same markets, even the shops right next to the ones that got blown up, are functioning again.

It is now Monday morning, and I am back from an early morning ride on the Metro. Disembarked below the Old City, walked the stretch from Jama Masjid to Sisganj Gurudwara via Chandni Chowk. Then rode the Metro back to New Delhi, walked across to the spot where the blasts took place in Paharganj.

No screamin, no begging, only action.

aandhi aye ya toofan, bumb chalaye rakhna hai ... these ppl are worse than animals.

I strongly object to chowk staff opening a thread for recent incidents in Delhi.

Obviously, they can do anything but did they ever open a thread for terrorism in Karachi or Lahore and other places in Pakistan. What is so special about the terrorists’ attacks in India that chowk staff needed to open a site sponsored threat? I think this is pandering to Indians on this site.

If there was any human concern in it, then chowk staff should have opened a thread for terrorist attacks in Karachi where loss of life was much more than Delhi.

3 Godot,

Here we go again, you talk of elements on both sides. Is there an equivalent jihadi outfit in india, did any indian hijack aircraft to free those arrested and properly processed in India. The latest blast is in response to teh trial of two pakistanis. Pl give us the indians a break, there are pakistanis and the pak society at large that support jihad. The entire pak army has become a jihadic army and that si why it could not organise earth quake relief, and it is that jihadisation that led to the slitting of throats of indian troops captured in Kargill.

Pl, pakistan is a different kettle, and the pak hatered is well known. The prroof from the london bombing is simple `` the hatered for kafirs come from the mothers milk of TNT, it makes no difference whether one grew up in lindon or in faisalabad``, The venom of TNT is in the biology and fittingly, Tanweer has been brought back to the land that instilled the jihadic spirit in him, to inspire a new generation of juhadists.

Clearly, a jihadi buried in london is nothing, in pakistan he is a shaheed a hero for the new generation.

Godot,

The foght is not between the hate mongers and the peace lovers, it is between the realists and the un-realists. All through the world, from afgyhanistan to london to philippines to india, pakistanis have been invoved in terrorism. It is due to the basuc premise on whiuch the country was founded, TNT. It has given a political dimension to hatred, please leave out the Zia story. The hoodood and jihadi culture created by him has survived several govts of various kinds in pakistan. It is the edicated of pakistan that is the root cause, people like you talking about kashmir problem.

What is the kashmir problem, oh domination by the hind7us, how about hoodood and rape of muktar mai, well that is per the book, so that is fine, ni human rights issues,
Godot, it is people like you who talk of human rights in kashmir, bevause india is democratci, but finds no ossues with the case of muktar mai because pakistan is an islamic republic.

Only when the educated talk of pakistan, then only there will be peace. Indo pak conflict is a conflict of values, between the educated, pkiatssnis like you. Take any pak news paper so much written by the educated in opinion adn letters to the editors about kashmir, hardly any on hoodood, because it is per the book.

Godot, stop the ritences, only when you realise that the human roghts issues in pakistan are worse than in kashmir, then only there can be any kind os indo-pak peace.

There is no point in being angry against Pakistanis and the jehadis. They are our enemies and will remain so for eternity. Trying to persuade them to change is asking for the impossible. What we Indians need to focus is on how to plug the security loopholes. Clearly our borders with Nepal and Bangladesh are a HUGE problem. It does not get attention as all our focus is on Pak border and LOC. The ISI knows that the Pak border is sealed and the LOC is fenced. They may be able to get a few people in that way, but their real push is via Nepal and Bangladesh. It is extremely easy for Pakistanis to send jehadis to Nepal and Bangladesh. Then these guys can take advantage of porous borders and infiltrate into India.

Hence India must immediately institute a visa policy with Nepal, so that people`s backgrounds are checked before letting them in. The borders at Nepal and Bangladesh MUST be sealed at the same level as they are with Pakistan on the west. Under no circumstances should we have soft borders with Pakistan. That would be like committing suicide. Whatever thaw has happened so far with Pakistan is good enough. No need to change any more.

Secondly India needs help from local muslims. They are the easiest to recruit for any terrorist plot, especially when money is offered. So our intelligence agencies must have a strong network with muslim community leaders and the mullahs. The mullahs have major influence over muslims and we need to buy them over to our side. In addition, a strong network of muslim informers is a must. These can be ordinary muslims in each muslim locality who will inform authorities of any suspicious activiity, any new person moving in etc.

Truth about pakistan,

Pakistan is the only country where jihadis are supported by the govt, where the organisations that claim responsibility have wide popular support. That is the only country where jihadis are recruited to the army. Aftyer the earth quake it the jihadis working with the pak army. Jihad is deep rooted in pak society, where it finds wide spread support among the educated, the only country where they talk of the madrassas providing education and supporting the poor.

JJihad is so engrained in the pak society so that there are shaheed society and monuments every where, the notion of martyrdom by killing the kafirs is the noblest act. This pervasiveness is because of the educated, the integration of islam with politics through TNT.

There is fencing on indo pak border, fencing the afghan border, the jiahdic frontiers are to be fenced.

Look at the lates from Musharaff, he is proposing demilitarisation of kashmir as a solution. Well no educated pakistanis finds the absurdity, a military ruler talking of demilitarisation, so that the jihadis can rule and infiltrate to rest of india. It is this kind of absurdity and the support of such by the educated of pakistn is the problem.

Problem of pakistan is not poverty, it is the education, it is the eudcated taht are the problem, the k for kafir educated, the likes of YLH, godot and romair.

Yet another absurdity,

Pakistan is setting up five camps along the loc to help the indian kashmiris.
Did you forget that pakistan has offered help for india, a few tons of releif supplies.
Did any pakistani know that there was no UN conference to help the indians.
The sad truth is that the policies of pakistan are being framed by the most educated of pakistan. One wonders what education means to them, or for that what it means to godot and YLH

#38 by HP

[What is so special about the terrorists’ attacks in India that chowk staff needed to open a site sponsored threat?]

You surely know the difference between suicide and murder, don`t you? That`s the difference between terrorism in Pakistan and terrorism in India.

Re: # 43 and all others.
I am seriously disappointed to find hate mongers like this on Chowk. You are completely forgetting about humanity and accusing muslims of being enemies of humanity - do you realise such accusations can be made of aome aspect of any religion.
You really seem to think that all muslims are terrorists - harimau`s comments extraordinarily fascistic - why dont we try reversing these comments and replace muslim majority populations with Hindu population of India....maybe thats what it will take for you to see how disgusting this is on a human basis.
Does it not occur to you that maybe, just maybe you are providing the best possible justification of the TNT. i.e.there was some point in trying to get away from bigots like you? And secondly, just get over it. India was never united except under the British, so `koi baap ki jagir nahin chheeni`. Face facts - if Palestinians can come to terms with the existence of Israel I really dont see your problem with the existence of Pakistan.
Thank God bigots are in a minority on both sides..only problem they cry so much louder. I really should save my breath to cool my porridge...I can only expect a barrage of abiuse or `facts` that prove all pakistanis/muslims are below the level of rabid dogs.

re: unconventional warfare
The world is today facing an unconventional enemy, an enemy without a face. A coward at that. This enemy kills innocent men, women and children and hides, pretending to be a well wisher. Indians know who the enemy is. They can`t do anything because they do not have the balls.
The only way to defeat terrorism is counter-terrosism. Increase the risk to the enemy. Make it clear that they will have to take 10 times the damage.
Take a leaf out of Israel`s response to every terrorist attack.
You can`t bargain with mad people. What do u do with a rabid dog? Don`t u kill the dog? You don`t sit and try to cajole a rabid dog, do u?
Sridhar

Re: # 38, HP asks: ````What is so special about the terrorists’ attacks in India that chowk staff needed to open a site sponsored threat? I think this is pandering to Indians on this site. ````

I don`t know about chowk staff, but maybe the special thing about the Delhi terrorist attacks was that they were very well coordinated and the number of deaths were under reported in the media.

In addition, Karachi attacks are, to the best of my knolwedge, all about strife between different sects and by those seeking freedom, obviously nothing to do with terrorism. Right?

re:#35 by HP
stop your nonsense, man.
It is coming to light that the militants across the border were involved. Keep your sympathies for the earthquake victims. God knows they need them.
India helps Pakis with 20 million dollars of money, materials during Pak`s worst crisis and look what they do in return.
As a proud US citizen and an NRI, i have this to say: thanks for your sympathies but we have seen your true character.
Sridhar

Jay

You make no sense. When it comes to the ``educated`` and hate, look in the mirror. You and your cohorts are pissing in the wind.


Stukup #30

Up yours.

HP:

Your comments are really disgusting.

you shouldn`t compare indias situation to u.s./europe. u.s. has placed barriers/checkpoints for muslims coming in, britain had ``bought`` security by supporting various terrorist bases in london. indias situation is more similar to the israeli situation.

The only sensible thing to do is to strike at the root of the cause and everyone knows where the root is embedded. again it may provoke nuclear war. india has to look at the pros and cons.

Unless pak stops supporting jihadis not much of change will happen. thats why the condolences offered by pak and pakis doesn`t mean anything. its loike mullah omar offering sympathies to bush after 9/11.

Re: # 45

traveller:

``Face facts - if Palestinians can come to terms with the existence of Israel I really dont see your problem with the existence of Pakistan. ``

who the hell is concerned about existence of pak?

we are concerned about paks support to jihadis. once it is stopped, no one would care about pak or its existence/non-existence.

I am sick and tired of Hindus being attacked on a periodic basis by Islamic extremists. It`s a shame on us for not being able to defend ourselves. Before pointing fingers at outsiders, we should realize that none of this would happen if there is no help from the people within the country. And these battles are not just in the physican domain. There is also a parallel war going on with the Christian conservatives whose sole aim is to proselytize Hindu India...

To all Hindus on this site and beyond, we should realize that we have to be internally strong and cohesive to put up any semblance of resistance. This is the time we set the differences of Caste/Region aside and support those political leaders whose loyalty is only to the religion and nothing else. If your support can`t be in terms of votes, let it be in monetary terms....

No point in blaming Pakistanis or someone else, we only have ourselves to blame...

Thanks,
Avkrishna

in reference to the Indians on this thread expressing hatred towards Pakistan,

is it very difficult to understand that the average Pakistani is not responsible for terrorist crimes like this one?

they`re badmouthing their own leaders...... i think the current indian leadership is smart.... they know that blind patriotism and hate for pakistan will not mean economic growth and stability.

who would want to do business with a country which is bent upon destroying another..... which is what i assume you guys are referring to when you say `take care of pakistan`

=== Interact Filtered ===
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Scout:

``is it very difficult to understand that the average Pakistani is not responsible for terrorist crimes like this one? ``

In the immediate aftermath of an attack, it is hard to undersatand because of the emotional response. Secondly, most Indians are sceptical of the fact that Pakistani Jihadi groups can continue to operate in Pakistan without the actual support of the Pakistani people. This was reinforced through the ``Jehadi boxes`` propaganda, as well as PTV `s own coverage of Maulana Masood Azhar touring Karachi etc and giving speeches to tens of thousands after he was released in exchange for a plane being hijacked. Its only after 09/11 that Jihad became uncool in Pakistan, which Indians take as a gesture of realpolitik in Pakistan`s case rather than conviction.

Re: # 53

scout:

``is it very difficult to understand that the average Pakistani is not responsible for terrorist crimes like this one? ``

no one has said that an average pakistani is directly involved in this act. but the policies of pak establishment are responsible for it.

do you believe that an average paki doesn`t know where the jihadi camps are? has a paki asked the military/gov to dismantle these camps? to stop pushing the jihadis into india? just last month mushy threatened to increase the influx of jihadis if india didn`t withdraw troops from the border areas.

when pak gives ``moral and political`` support to jihadis hence it is responsible for its action too. just as taliban was in case of al qaeda.

all i want to say is pakis have to realise that it can`t have its cake and eat it too. either you dismantle/stop supporting the jihadis or take the responsbility for their action.

for those interested, mihgt have something to do with this piece of news

Death penalty for Red Fort attack case accused

October 31, 2005 15:35 IST
Last Updated: October 31, 2005 16:12 IST


A Delhi Court on Monday awarded death sentence to Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Tayiba terrorist Mohammad Arif alias Ashfaq, convicted in the December 2000 Red Fort attack case.
..........

Re: # 47

veeresh,

I don`t know about chowk staff, but maybe the special thing about the Delhi terrorist attacks was that they were very well coordinated and the number of deaths were under reported in the media.


I would like to address a question because you are form that area. I had a similar doubt. I don`t know how crowded the market will be in Delhi during Deepavali times.. I know a bit about Chennai. we have a shopping area in T.Nagar (infact just a street) that can easily have 10000 people in a narrow road. During Deepavali/Pongal times, you don`t have to make any effort to move. It is probably like the Mumbai trains. You would just be pushed by the people. So it is kinda strange that the casualties are just around 60. If that`s really the count I`d really thank Allah. Bcos you could easily get a 1000 ``kafirs`` out if the terrorists chose that street.

Re: # 51 & so on....longish post

The other points have been discussed already, whether you want it or not, India has our sympathy on the loss of life in the attacks on Delhi, and we condemn all such violence.
The comparison with Mulla Omar is ridiculous - how much support do you think these groups need? they do not need the support of the whole nation & they are certainly not getting it from the average man or woman on the street who is really quite thrilled about peace moves - while being cautious of what are thought to be Indian hegemonic aspirations - and really, they dont care too much about Kashmir, just think its a mess & feel sorry for Kashmiris in a general way.
Jihad wasnt `cool` even before 9/11 - it was always in the realm of the fundos & hot heads. The problem is partly that Pakistani public became partly desensitised to jihadist rhetoric during the Soviet invasion of afghanistan and the aftermath - hence the tolerance of Jihad boxes although I must say I only remember seeing one or two & I dont remember seeing much more than a couple of miserable rupees floating around in them. It was replaced by a fundraising box for a charity for handicapped children which was much better supported. Maybe I just didnt go to the right places....
I know, I know, always blame some one else, but once the brainwashing took hold in the Afghan refugee camps (with all the US & Saudi money pouring in & textbooks printed at the University of Nebraska glorifying Jehad) it did spread among the rest of the potential cannon fodder groups. The rest of society was drugged with false piety to find all this nonsense heroic or at least mildly admirable. Hence people who would have normally reacted strongly to certain stimuli were gradually conditioned to accept even if not approve of them.
Plus in Zia`s time most people just kept their heads down and didnt take on the establishment, that sort of thing does form a habit. Does that clarify anything about the Pakistani public`s so-called support for Jihad?
Masood Azhar, dont remember seeing that...not nice. We are left with a legacy of brainwashed mullah-types who are only too keen to cheer nasty types like this. Doesnt mean they`d actually go forth and do much about it...but still.

HP

``Only the Indian government should be blamed for failing to deal with terrorism. ``

Yeah, I think the children who were blown to bits should also be blamed for it. atleast the jihadis didn`t drag them to that spot, they merely placed RDX there. these hindoos should not have gone to that place. its as simple as that raTher than blaming the jihadis, isn`t HP?

Re: # 59

traveller:

all i am saying is even though your sympathies are heartfelt, unfortunately it won`t cut ice among indians (whether rss or communists) as long as pak doesn`t close down the jihadi infrastructure.

pak is caught b/t the devil and the sea. it condemns the criminal attacks but still uses jihadis as a pawn in kashmir. how seriously can it be taken then?

people who died in delhi will never come back, nor will the suffering of the injured be minimized but can any further attacks prevented?

if pak is serious about jihadi menace then it would join forces with us in combatting it.

but as i said, indians are not hopeful about it as pak uses the same jihadis to keep the situation in kashmir boiling.

I think it is in best interest of people of India to accord benefit of doubt to anyone who is being blamed for this act. It will help in two aspects:

1. It will force GOI to work hard to find the real culprits, instead of taking an easy approach to blame on someone who cannot defend himself and in doing so it will reduce the chances of further attacks.

2. At personal level it will help cope with not only the greif but especially the anger. Unbriddled anger augments the inherent prejudices that every human being possesses; it makes people do things that they would have never done in the rightness of the their minds otherwise.

Trust me I am no pacifist and do not aspire to be one either, but still I can impart a honest piece of advice to a fellow human being even if he is my enemy.

This is an excerpt from an article in the Nov. 1 Asia Times:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GK01Df02.html

Nov 1, 2005

India and Pakistan push on, despite blasts
By Ranjit Devraj

NEW DELHI - While Saturday evening`s serial blasts in the Indian capital claimed at least 60 lives, they have not officially stopped India and Pakistan from going ahead with plans to open the border in divided, insurgency-hit Kashmir to facilitate relief operations for the survivors of the October 8 earthquake.

Suspicion for the blasts has fallen on the Lashkar e-Toiba (Soldiers of God) jihadi group, which is based in Pakistani-administered Kashmir and sworn to liberate Muslim-majority, Indian-administered Kashmir or have it accede to Pakistan. But authorities were determined to allow relief work across the Line of Control (LoC) that separates the two regions

Re: # 59

traveller, ahmedzai, romair ...........

............ wishing for something does not make it go away .......... it is true that the ``brainwashing`` started in the afghan refugee camps and was initially restricted to the madrassa crowd with support from the government ....... also, in the beginning it manifested itself in the general population with an increase of seemingly harmless, if obsequious and obscene, piety and religiosity ............. however, over the years, the disease has corrupted the soul of large segments of society to the point were it is not unusual to hear students from las, aitchison and lums talk like flaming jihadis (or their rss equivalents on this forum) ............ drastic action is required to reverse this trend among the young - this incessant nonsense on television does not help ............. our best hope is bollywood

Desperate acts by desperate people. Desperate people resort to such acts when there is nothing else going for them in their lives. All they have to hang on to is their filthy belief system, their filthy Mullahs, and other filth, and a dream of scoring with 72 hooris.

Let’s not rush to pass any judgment; it hasn’t yet been determined whether the perps were Deobandi Sunnis or Wahabis. Hopefully, we will find soon.

I kinda agree with what HP is saying. India should pay more attention to both home grown garbage as well as the one that crosses its’ borders to commit such destruction and murder. India should tighten the Shikanja (vise) just like Israelis have, without worrying about what the nincompoops of the OIC may think, because an innocent life lost in India is a 1000’s times more important than 72 bastards going to hell in hopes of getting some sex.

I don`t give a damn for any religion, they are all comic. I think Hinduism or whatever they call themselves is a tribal religion. I don`t see any difference in Hanuman and some African Gods apart from Hanuman moving around in silk underwear and some gold ornaments. Ditto for other animal Gods viz. snake, elephant, eagle, mouse, peacock etc. and weirdos with multiple hands and multiple heads. A Hindu actually confuses grandeur of their rituals with grandeur of their religion. Once a crackpot RSS teacher (class 12th teacher) who called himself a professor told me that the high point of Hindu religion is Yagn. I told him, ``Asshole, you have no idea what you are talking about. The central objective of a Yagn is sacrifice and it is counter to definition of God.`` Buddhism too has remained comic and silly, embroiled in esoteric rituals. Other religions are comic too but have evolved from being tribal to rational and largely detoxified themselves. But truthfully I must say, I am scared of Al Islam. It is not comic but a tragic anachronism and extremely dangerous to humankind.

Sarbjeet Singh was on a goodwill mission to Pakistan. He was carrying some fertilizer for this Jatt cousins across the border when it exploded in downtown Lahore.

hamidm #64 ``our best hope is bollywood ``

in other words, we are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. between religious fanaticism on one side and soap operas on the other. then there is the third way...but dont let me get started.

#36, Veeresh, {``Never been prouder of being a Delhiite than lately. Been going all over town in buses and must say, did not see any sign of any communal or other tension``}

Veeresh,
First of all, I am relieved that you and your family and friends are safe and sound. My deepest sympathies to all the victims and their familiies. This murderous nonsense has to stop and the people who can stop it are the leaders of Pakistan. For one reason or another, Pakistan cozied up to the Al-Kayda terrorists and has always been nurturing, supporting, and supplying the terrorists in Kashmir. Finally, after 9/11, when Dubya said ``Yer with us or agin us,`` Mushy came to his senses and feigned to go after the Al-Kayda and Tally Ban.
India needs to warn the Paki establishment in no uncertain terms that it has to dismantle these terrorists or else...

Chowk Staff, why didn`t you put up an article when this happened? Are Pakistani lives less precious than Indian lives?


Six killed in Lahore blasts

Over 36 injured; probe ordered; security beefed up in Punjab

By Sajjad Shafiq Butt

LAHORE: Six persons, including a retired chief technician of Pakistan Air Force, spouse of a senior officer of Pakistan Naval Staff, and a prayer-leader, were killed and over three dozen injured, as terrorists triggered two bomb blasts in separate areas here on Thursday.

The bombings, which occurred within an hour of each other, were being considered as first terrorist attack in the provincial metropolis this year. The first bomb, apparently a home-made time-device, strapped to a bicycle, was detonated about 10.40am outside the public toilets located near Minar-e-Pakistan in the precincts of Lorry Adda police station. A 35-year-old vendor, Ghulam Yasin from Bahawalpur district lost his life and 15 others, including a woman, sustained multiple injuries.

kalihawa #66 perfect post!! that is the third way i mentioned in #68. which is that of using one`s common sense. not reducing religion to superstition, which is basically what it is pretty much everywhere it is practiced.

Scoutie
My neighbour lost his son, daughter-in-law and grandson in Sarojini Nagar blast.

``is it very difficult to understand that the average Pakistani is not responsible for terrorist crimes like this one? ``

Read following extract from todays Dawn news paper
``So could it be the same between India and Pakistan, the world’s most angry rivals? I don’t think so. The Indians were just a little too eager to get a close look at Pakistani army installations and mujahideen camps behind the LoC, and just a little too eager to put their political footprint on Azad Kashmir, though their help would have been useful.``

If average Pakistani is not not responsible for mujahideen, why are such camps permitted and protected by Pakistani establishment? Didn`t average Pakistani give 99% mandate to this establishment.