Indo-Pak History via Mail

#414, HP {``The ones who wielded longer swords became leaders``}

HP,
Some things never change. :)

#410 by mohar11

“who said Modi and Advani are ``hero`` to hindus?..... yes, they get elected –“

It is all the same…a millennium ago there were no elections. The ones who wielded longer swords became leaders and called themselves kings. Ghori became a king after killing Hindus and after 1000 years modi won elections after he supervised yet another killing…

Religion is a secondary issue…people (Hindu or Muslims or X religion) get killed because either they are in the way or their death is helpful.
If lives were important, there were going to be no wars in the world. Human fight and they kill, that’s why I said Hindu are not special…they are like anyone else.

#411 shishapa,

First you accuse my parents for killing Hindus and then you came back and give me some baloney. AFAIK, no Hindu was killed in Sindh in 1947 because of his religion. I would appreciate it if you present anything contrary to that.

Modi, and Advani, Patel, Indira, and even Vajpayee are just like Jinnah, Liaquat, Nishtar, Zia, Bhutto, Mujeeb, and Mushy. On a lesser scale I would add Nehru to that list. These are all people to whom their personal agenda was more important than the real interests of the people. They were willing to start any fire, release any plague, and resort to any tricks, as long as it suited their nefarious designs - they did not care about the consequences. You may call them great ``risk`` takers. :)

#409, mohar {``I did.... my post was from a paki point of view - NOT a muslim point of view.....

So you are saying that Ghori is a paki hero because he waged war against India..... which is pretty much same as what I said - because, in paki mind India equals to hindoo..... also, in paki mind, India is a new concept - there was no India at ghori`s time..... so the fight was between muslim and the hindoo.``}

Mohar,
Almost saying the same thing. Let me give an example. UBL is NOT a Muslim hero, but he is definitely a Jiahdi hero. See the difference? UBL, in his belief in extremism to install a Caliphate with him at the top, has the aim of creating a permanent schism between Muslims and the rest of the world. Killing Muslims along the way to accompllish his goal is justified in his weird mind.

Jinnah is a Paki hero and definitely NOT a Muslim hero. He raised the Hindu vs Muslim problem to achieve Pakistan a country that he could rule. He did not care how many Muslims (and Hindus and Sikhs) were butchered along the way - as long as he attained his goal.

Ghaznavi, Ghori, and others like them are heroes to jihadists and Pakis. They succeeded in killing, looting, and pillaging Hindus - creating a rift between Hindus and Muslims almost forever, thus helping to create the separate identity for Muslims - under THEIR rule.

I think that you are getting the point. :)

Re: # 406

Modi and Advani are not my heroes. I detest them as much as I detest Jinnah
and Geelani and Gazanavi and Ghori (charlatans who divide people and nations
instead of taking them forward together).

If I could (I mean if I was a dictator of India like Musharraf is of Pakistan), I would have
deported them to Pakistan, right where they belong. They would be normal people there,
may be dwarfs.

HP

who said Modi and Advani are ``hero`` to hindus?..... yes, they get elected - but then so did laloo, shahabuddin - even dawoods brother or cousin (?)..... Getting elected in Indian elections doesn`t mean anything.... if you have money - you win elections.....

As usual - you are throwing strawman arguments.....

Re: # 394 salim
[...We need to distinguish between Paki point of view and Muslim point of view....]

I did.... my post was from a paki point of view - NOT a muslim point of view.....

So you are saying that Ghori is a paki hero because he waged war against India..... which is pretty much same as what I said - because, in paki mind India equals to hindoo..... also, in paki mind, India is a new concept - there was no India at ghori`s time..... so the fight was between muslim and the hindoo..... And Ghori has been credited with killing thousands hindoos and converting the rest - which ultimately led to creation of pakiland..... hence he is the hero....

Anyway - that`s my theory....and it makes sense.....

Re: # 402 jang

Well - that`s theory I could come up with :) ..... I am sure pakis will have a ``better`` explanation for Ghori is a hero to pakis...... So let`s hear it....

Soysaucce #399, {``Hindu rajas were not always protecting hindu interests because there wasn`t always a monolithic hindu interest.``}

Chatni,
So Hindu rajas were as ``normal`` as Christian Kings and Muslim rulers. The reason the Crusades succeeded initially and lasted so long was the bitter rivalry among Muslims - Fatimids vs Abbassids vs Ommayads (in Spain). These rivalries eventually cost them Sicility, Spain, and temporarily, the Holy Land during the 11th through the 13th centuries. Much of the warfare in India was among Muslims from the 13th through the 18th centuries.
I don`t think that there ever has been a monolithic Muslim interest, except in the minds of RSS/BJP/VHP/BD/SP/JS-motivated historians.

#405 by shishapa

``your baap and grand baap used
to kill Sindhi Hindus in 1947``

I personally have no knowledge of my baap and grand baap doing that but why would it be an issue for someone whose hero is a murderer... as in Modi...or advani or any one who can rip a child out of woman`s womb.

Re: # 396

Sorry, wrong comparison....

Modi and Advani can be compared to Jinnah and not Ghori and Gazanavi....

But have to say, Pakistani heroes are class apart, Ghori, Gazanavi, Jinnah....
They are simply word class. Javab nahi.

Indians have much to learn from Pakistanis in choosing heroes (and producing
world class dictators).

HP, a personal question, those butcher knives... your baap and grand baap used
to kill Sindhi Hindus in 1947, have the blood stains washed or they are still there?
Just asking. Do not have to answer. I will understand.

#403 by jang



``he did not break his state of wuzu.``

So he did not eat any Daal for dinner.....

Sometime people suffer on the first night and if the first night has come after a long night (wait.)... I thought you knew that but you are bent upon badmouthing the pious king....
How did he get his sons... did some rajput help him?

#401 HP sahib, the gossip is that when the harem-eunuch brought water in the morning for alamgirs ablutions, the lady sarcastically asked the eunuch to take it back saying that that he does not need it since he did not break his state of wuzu.

#391 mohar..
i did not know you are a paki ;-)

i suspect those who think high of ghori and gaznavi are in a better shape to explain the heroic character..something you may have missed.

incidentally, indians have also made movies about other heroes...i highly reccomend
halku

#387 by jang

“he made sure that d. shikoh did not become emperor else we would have had a onother crazy hom-o-jahanara-loving chrasee as an emperor and the rajputs would have”

Brush up on your history Jang yar khan….He was an afeemchi and not a charsee…Pathans had not invented Chars at that time. Locals around Delhi were using Ganja then…later made famous by you know who…

“there is gossip that once he had contracted services of a lady for a night, and he spent the whole night praying.”

I doubt that but true muslims are supposed to take shower after the deed….King-who-sold-caps-for-living had to offer prayer after his first time…It is called Namaz-e –shukrana….

Tell Mohar Muslims offer this namaz every time the kill a Hindu…Mohd Ghauri was an expert in offering this Namaz-e-shukrana. He was so busy he did not have time for anything else... Guy just loved it….

My guess is that history will judge Indira to have been a bad leader.