Thoughts on Life Before Death

kaka: humanism is not my dad`s private property.. you are welcome to have a go at it :) but seriously.. i took this more as a satire than a proper essay... i guess i was off...

one more thing:
what do you think of kibbutz type of setup where there is no relation between copulation and reproduction and no nucelar family. that setup makes alot of sense.. the whole comunity then can reason out how many kids it can provide a decent broughtup to and can work at it via in-utero or through conventional coital means.

#14: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. You are a funny dude, but how and when did you know? I think you would be better off carrying on a conversation with Zenab Behram ji Ganne Wallah.

mannyd # 10 asks ``How did I do Atif?``

well, let me put it this way: I have had more throught provoking conversations with myself in my bathroom than you are having with your `self` (or as they say in Urdu - hamzaad) on chowk.

#9 no fooloing = No fooling.
Sorry!

Catchy, the smartest Chowky east of Thames but west of Ravi posted an article about adoption from Dawn on UP. Interesting reading in conjunction with Hamzad`s essay above.

``Let me cite the example of the man on the bike who recently whisked away a 13-year-old girl from a hospital in Islamabad left parentless. Fortunately, he drove his bike into a ditch, the girl was rescued, but the man fled. Did he want to adopt her as his daughter? Did the quake victim move him enough to kidnap her, put her on his motorbike and drive away with her? Was it the fear of God that persuaded him to rescue the teen and give her a home?

Come on ... you and I know what the man’s motive was. Why, sexual abuse of course.``

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/dmag16.htm

Hamzad #8: As far as men are concerned, they would rather have the mother or the state or some bleeding heart humanist take care of the children, unless they have breeding rights protected by a marriage contract with or without a chastity belt. Even after marriage, some men would like to wiggle out of paying child support.
``AND ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO THINK THAT OUR INSTICNTS WILL TAKE US TO THE RIGHT DIRECTION``. Agreed.

However in the case of parent care, the natural instincts are even weeker than for child care and may require more `persuasion`, whatever form you would prescribe. THis is where Jang`s karmic thesis comes in. It is not quite heavy as Karma which may span more than one birth, but a milder form called Samskars, moral values learned through osmosis. My children will learn best how to treat me in my old age, hopefully, from how I treat my parents. A class room may help. Bill boards on public buses might help. The best form of persuasion is to remove the financial incentives that are attached to the alternatives.

No more welfare checks for unwed mothers and bastards. No more social security managed by the government.

(How did I do Atif?)

#4 : Atif ``hamzaad himself in # 1, hamzaad himself in #2, ``.

You are a very astute person Atif. You have to admit though I do try pretty hard to create two different personnas. However there is no fooloing of people like you. Tell me what was the tell tale sign that your razor sharp mind latched on to. I admit I am Hamzad but what you probably do not know is that Hamzad is also....Are you ready for this?....KAKA.

mannyd,

Suppose you are wrong about the `ingrained` nature of breeder-offspring relationship. The task at hand, still, is to persuade everyone AND ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO THINK THAT OUR INSTICNTS WILL TAKE US TO THE RIGHT DIRECTION, that indivdual responsibility cannot be shirked away in favor of state dependence.

jang,

It`s one thing to observe, understand and appreciate how evolution works, but to uphold evolutionary trends as how things should be is dangerous. Your point about biradari taking care of their own as in Ismaili, Parsee or Jewish communities, forces kaka to take sides and kaka will side with what you have called biradari-cartelling. The reasons are complex and fit in with a larger framework of partnerships, convenience and immediacy.

atif,

Don`t hate kaka just because kaka is not popular.

raw_dust,

kaka badmouthed Humanism and you have nothing to say?!

re#1:
nationalism and the way it turns ppl. psychotic is, does work like its sister drug, Religion, though one can argue that religion is more commercially successful.

good work, mr. kaka. !

atif, gimme a break, dont get all upset, marry a cousin of your abbu-ammis choice, i am not stopping you. in the interim, do you have anything to contribute about kakas karmic thesis?

So get this: here is hamzaad`s article. and look who do we have here to interact: hamzaad himself in # 1, hamzaad himself in #2, and Jang who is found on just about every board that is ignored by mainstream interactors. my theory goes that jang is insecure about interacting with mainstream interactors. he would rather play tennis all by himself. that way even if he loses, there is an equal chance of him winning too.

kakasab,
Good precise writing .. seems based on karmic theory.

now i understand the sub-continental urge to ``arrange marriages`` and support children, who can barely take care of themselves to have children. this is kind of like a baboon-tribal instinct of surrounding himself with safe animals.

there is a problem however, in order to have stronger gene-pool among animals, there is always a tussle to get the females and only the stron males get to mate and matriarchs with strong characteristics bear more children. in arranged marriages, genetic immorality gets practiced, where any stupic boy (or girl) get to mate and produce offsprings without indulging in a chemical instinct-based struggle to find a mate. this is wrong. men and women should fight and struggle for their mates so that over time, there is good breeding. ill-breeding caused by abbu-ammi arranged marriages result in corrupt practices like biradari-cartelling, casteism and are against evolutinary instincts.

Hamzad Sahib,
It is a very well written essay and you have touched on many many aspects of society, parents and children relationships in so few words. Thanks.

A general observation is that some of the responsibility that you place on parents is already programmed into our instincts by nature. While many species can walk away after the birth of their children, others have been hardwired to hang around for different lengths of time until the children get on their own two or four feet. Conversly the children take care of their parents when they are too old and frail to take care of themselves. This is a learnt trait for human only and is displayed in different degrees in our Desi society.

Compared to the family, the social security insurance is a relatively new phenomenon where state replaces or supplements the children`s burden. how long it will last is anybody`s guess but it requires an evergrowing workforce to take care of the old folks.

`This sense of entitlement in turn results in confusion and a sense of moral outrage where there is no basis for such outrage.`

kaka was thinking of ferozk and his ilogs when he wrote these lines. There`s a certain type of moralists who has taken refuge in the idealism of nationhood and nationalism. The only remedy it seems is to watch `Animal Planet` channel more carefully and ask pointed questions about what humans share with animals.