Songs of Dissonance

#84 by ballukhan

[...............it is these `educated` persons like JJ and Dr Farrukh Saleem who embolden the Islamist even more]

Ballu Bhai,

I think you got it all wrong. You are grossly mistaken about Dr. Farrukh Saleem. For years, he has been advocating modern education for Pakis as the only solution to Pakistan`s ills. I have read many of his articles on The Friday Times, and he comes across as a real modernist, not a turncoat ;-) like Jamshed Junaid and Saeed Anwar.

Note the last paragraph:

``Diagnosis 2: Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak because we have refused to change with time.

Keep pace with time -- al Quran``

This is what happens when moderate `educated` muslims submit themselves to the Islamist propaganda. They prescribe faster backward movement to the glorious past.............i.e. more Islamization...............it is these `educated` persons like JJ and Dr Farrukh Saleem who embolden the Islamist even more:-

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/nov2005-daily/08-11-2005/oped/o6.htm

`` Muslims of the world are among the poorest of the poor.

Fifty-seven Muslim majority countries have an average of ten universities each for a total of less than 600 universities for 1.4 billion people; India has 8,407 universities, the U.S. has 5,758. From within 1.4 billion Muslims Abdus Salam and Ahmed Zewail are the only two Muslim men who won a Nobel Prize in physics and chemistry (Salam pursued his scientific work in Italy and the UK, Zewail at California Institute of Technology). Dr Salam in his home country is not even considered a Muslim.

Over the past 105 years, 1.4 billion Muslims have produced eight Nobel Laureates while a mere 14 million Jews have produced 167 Nobel Laureates. Of the 1.4 billion Muslims less than 300,000 qualify as `scientists`, and that converts to a ratio of 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The United States of America has 1.1 million scientists (4,099 per million); Japan has 700,000 (5,095 per million).

Fact: Of the 1.4 billion Muslims 800 million are illiterate (6 out of 10 Muslims cannot read). In Christendom, adult literacy rate stands at 78 percent.

Consider, for instance, that Muslims constitute 22 percent of world population with a 1 percent share of Nobel Prizes. Jews constitute 0.23 percent of world population with a 22 percent share of Nobel Prizes.

What really went wrong? Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak. What went wrong? Arriving at the right diagnosis is extremely critical because the prescription depends on it. Consider this:

Diagnosis 1: Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak because they have `abandoned the divine heritage of Islam`.
Prescription: We must return to our real or imagined past.

Diagnosis 2: Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak because we have refused to change with time.

Keep pace with time -- al Quran``

Re: # 72
Madani Sahib
After reading your replies I have completly lost trail of the subject matter. BRAVO!!! Absoluetly brilliant. If some people do not get the gist of your writings, then they surely are at a loss.

My first, 17year old daughter has started to impress her viewpoint causing me much consternations. Can you advise course of action cause like u I too feel threatened by her independence.

JJ made his name and fame being a pop singer which he now considers to be un-Islamic yet has no qualms in useing that same fame to propagate his born again Islam. Making others feel good about themselves through music was JJ best possible contribution to this world, his latest monologue will only endear him to his coterie of Tablighees/fundos searching for the ultimate conspiracy theories. I for one would support JJ need to have his bouts of verbal diorrehea.

This is what the charlatan Mr. Masadi states:


``THE WATERY ORIGIN OF LIFE


The Koran mentions that all life ``originated`` from water (Koran 21:30)and that man himself is ``created`` of water and so are all the animals on earth (Koran 25:54, and 24:45).

These statements to an Arab would have sounded atrocious in that day and age. Even today such statements in the Koran might cause you to wonder. The fact that all life originated in water is well established by the scientific community, today. We have evidence to support the fact that the first living beings were cyanobacteria also called bluegreen algae, and they existed in water. The fact that human beings and animals are created of water is also well established since cytoplasm the basic component of ``life`` in any animal cell is over 80% water.``



The fact remains that this view was probably a modification of the well know thesis propounded by Thales of Miletus (Born: about 624 BC Died: about 547 BC in Miletus, Asia Minor ,now Turkey) `all things are water`..................so the original claim for pre-emption should go to Thales............

Anyway, this is a patently false thesis because `life` is characterized by the DNA sequence............and the helical DNA sequence was not even understood before the 20th century.....no religious text could have pre-empted the DNA sequence........it only comes from religious loonies who make this claim for propaganda of their form of religious cult..........

Why does an Islamist insist upon telling everyone that Islam has pre-empted all the important scientific theories?

Simple, Islamist wants to spread the propaganda that world does not need scientists because everything is already revealed..............so this propaganda to `prove` that all the important and established theories of sciences are already pre-empted in Islam............it would only lesd to more muslims getting weaned to Islamist ideology. I am sure the chowk must have realized that in their midst only how Mr. Naqshabandi has been reading the Islamist stuff so much that he had almost decided to throw away his phd thesis in chemistry ...............

Whom does the propoganda target?

It is targetted at moderate muslims who would unwittingly become party to the fascistic intents of these Islamists and would provide intellectual and moral support. It is not targetted for publication in acclaimed forums of science or even philosophy of science. It is a propoganda ploy to obtain support from various moderate muslims and to keep the Islamists afloat on their violent course towards fascistic submission of all the other educated and moderate muslims as well as non-muslims alike.

Re: # 1

Well said, codification of morals breads idol worship where we deify the rituals and cease to look at reason. And yes, it can be inspired from any source. Indeed, JJs are in every religion, and every country.

Aisha Sarwari

The pictures are of a carvinal in Chandigarh on 27/11/05

Re: # 74

I am sure Mr Masadi would like to comment on this, his article is titled

``KORAN & KARL POPPER`S CRITICAL RATIONALISM``

here is the link to his article

http://rationalreality.50webs.com/sci.htm

Ahmedmadani is a fake. he deliberately writes poor english to come across as an unlearned person, which he is not. Some os his post are also ludicrous, like somewhere he had written that Indians cant afford servants etc. Thousands of Nepalese, besides Indians, work as cooks and dosmetics helps in India. Even school teachers can afford cooks. With the pittance that is paid to servants in India and ak, keeping a servants is no big deal. His attitude towards his daughters [ if what he writes is really true] is regressive. Ahmedmadani dont be a frog living in a well. Your worldview is limited. Meanwhile I am posting you these pictures of girls in India so that you change your attitude to your daughters.

#58

Masadi….That women have half a man’s testimony (and zero if not accompanied by a man’s testimony) in financial transactions is common knowledge.It is also contained in Article 17 of the Qanun e Shahadat of Pakistan. So masadi, I did not have to, and did not in fact go to the link you pasted. Indeed, you give yourself too much credit if you think I would go to a silly link suggested by a self opinionated twerp like you. Your post tells me is that you are a presumptuous twit. It also tells me that whether or not I went to that link and am being dishonest or not, you definitely are a dishonest guy whose own mind definitely works in these cryptic ways and therefore thinks nothing of accusing others of such things. Exemplary muslim behaviour...is it ? Btw..is that how the criminal justice system works in Islam too ??? By accusing people on whims ?

However, your nonsense and personal attacks on me aside, the fact remains

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for all on chowk to see

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that you NEVER answer the real questions. By now there are about half a dozen that you should have answered. But no. You will do anything but answer the question. Why ????

Raw dust...

The point I was making was in respect to theological beliefs but generality...

Out of discussion:

I don`t know where it is heading but the article is really cool and valid up mark.

Want to insert through this board that those people who say Koran instead of Quran no matter how menaingful or less they debate about it don`t show the due privilege to the book so much respectable to muslims. And if they are muslims then this doesn`t make them liberal by twisting urdu or arabic language and showing false weak familiarity with language.

If its by mistake then people should set straight their qibla.

Cheers

Re: # 277

Brfore I can preempt more charlatan science getting propounded on the site by the Islamists read this :

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, ``Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?`` I replied, ``Allah and His Apostle know better.`` He said, ``It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ``And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.``

I am sure every body can understand that it is not a scientific theory but a view of the world utilizing common everyday metaphors ......................but the literalist idiots would like to see a scientific theory in it...............

Re: # 47 Mr. Ranjeet.....Please bear with me for my mental deliquiencies.
I believe in abstinence from any kind of alcohol and Zina sex or more than one wife. I have seen many religious advocates talking about abstinence a great deal, but it is well-known they would have a drink now and then on pretex of cold in KARACHI`S humid weather.
I was saddened by your diatribe about my mental stability and abilities. But I found your words didactic and eye opening.
I am a diffident person and lack expressive language handicaps makes me garrulous. Still you have been kind and munificient in making remarks.
I scoffed at your observations but eventually was forced to accept as they were powerful as they were true. I now acquiesce with your critical remarks. I tried to assimilate with learned people as letter write but you exposed. It made me little delirious due to that and resulted in diminution of my mental capacities. You have great disdain for me but know you are magnanimous person. I have malignant thought disorder and my minds meanders aimlessly. I am distraught that can not alleviate your feeling about me. My mental capacities are maimed, nonmeticulus, murky , full of narcissim and squabbling. I am just biblophile and my mental capacities ebb and logic is elusive. I am nonchalant and now feel if had shown solicitude while reading comments my brain would have been working. This exercise is to assuage the grief I did to readers and aware only my obnoxious behaviour engendered hostilities. It is enigma why Mr.Romair or Mr.Hamid have morbid interest in reading my comments. I have nostalgia of time when was not on drugs/(doctor ordered). I am told with my 2 cats,dog and snake my house is real menagerie. I am trying to obliterate metal depression. Presently reading poems from Chowk poets has developed mental atrophy and aversion to good poems.The poem in chowk are so esoteric that few people besides relatives of poet could understand it. You have accused me of equivocating on every major issues, not true never comment about poems and eulogies. I regret my comments have been obtrusive. Wheeping punks, I thought being help suggestion, but you thought I was officious. This was overt rude behaviour and i regret it. It behooved me to improve by your analysis. your suggestions are exemplary and if I follow may allow me opulent lifestyle, for that ,need to sequester all distractions and work hard. I am mending my writing ways but its hard.

You do not take comments form people seriously. I just make comments to impress myself and my wife and my cats, dag and snake. Please do not take seriously what I write.

Only people who are serious are Mr.and Mrs manto and Seculars and all others are harams and writing to please themselves without any social utility. I am thinking of better listening to indian classical music than write comments as it is creating heat and no light.

Again my mind is getting delirious. So parting shot. Recently Mantos and some indian man writing about secularism , religion, and those stuff.
So comments of mine.

In this world there are two types of people. First are NORMALpeople, follow religion as good as possible if not possible they do not and do not worry about religion at all and all OTHERS ARE SECULARS.
SECULAR PEOPLE ARE LAFANGAS , AND KEEP AWAY .

Re: # 50

I would definitely request my friends Gill, tahmad and hamidm to go through this charlatan`s article ......

Re: # 55

Charlatans like yourself, Mr Masad, have existed for too long in this world......it is time they were shown their place.....I read your article called ``KORAN & KARL POPPER`S CRITICAL RATIONALISM`` and I doubt you have read Karl Popper before you started talking about his critical rationalism.........the topic on scientific theories in Quran and how it connects to KArl Popper is a material fit for a phd thesis.......but I have better things to do than to waste time on charlatan thesis which nobody in the academic world would even waste a glance....................this may serve as a good source of funding from saudi fundoos........sorry what a waste of precious human intellect!!!