The Trial of a Nation

Urstruly #41

The ‘8 nuclear tests’ conducted on Yaum-e-Takbir would obviously convince true believers. These gentlemen also believe that Pakistan develops and fabricates its own missiles and in fact unveils and tests a new model of IRBM every six months.

Revealed religious faith is usually maintained in the absence of any evidence and in the presence of suspicious contrary information. I’m asking for evidence that would carry weight with a skeptic.

I am more willing to believe that a plutonium device – of indeterminate origin - was tested in on the soil of Baluchistan in May 1998, at a time when Pakistan had no known unsafeguarded sources of plutonium. I’m asking again for reasons to believe that uranium enrichment was being conducted successfully on an industrial scale in Pakistan.

Any true Pakistani nationalist would be feel offended and disgraced by Godot`s # 37 listing of reponsible nuclear nations, in which he includes the name of India, but not of Pakistan.

Yet, the problem with AQKhan is that he truly did disgrace his nation.

Reputation counts. And Mr. Khan hurt his nation a great deal and in real terms.

Re: # 38

Urstruly

“Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: I don`t know about you but as a Muslim this is my guiding principle”

You contradict yourself, Urstruly. You are very suspicious of the West that they are out to screw you because you are a Muslim. I’m not sure you live by what you claim. And I don’t believe in that I, as a Muslim, should not suspect any other Muslim. Muslims are no longer a handful of close-knit people in Madina anymore...14 hundred years later, there are close to a billion and a half of them, and to tell you the truth some of them are quite nasty. I am very suspicious of them.

I suggest you pick up a copy of November 2005 Atlantic Monthly. Read through the writer’s account of how AQK did it. Now, this article is very biased and the writer has nothing but contempt for Pakistan and AQK. It is nevertheless a well-researched article and it does make one see in spite of its clear bias.

I grant you that Pakistan Army knew all along what AQK was doing. However, when it became public knowledge, someone had to take a fall. It couldn’t have been the Army. The consequences of that were quite grave for Pakistan as a nation. I hope you understand that.

“Do you think that Pakistani nation is so chutiya...My ass.”

Now, that’s very emotional. When one gets to this point, it`s an indication that one has lost his capacity to think clearly and the debate has become pointless and useless.

Re: # 41

The evidence is the 8 nuclear tests that were conducted on May 28, 1999 Yom-e-Takbir (The day of attestation of Allah`s Sovereignty). The knowledge is pretty much in public domain.

Reality check: is there any convincing evidence in the public domain that would indicate that Pakistan succeeded in enriching uranium at an industrial scale (i.e. equivalent to tens of kilograms of HEU per year)? Why should one not suspect that the alleged enrichment plant at Kahuta is a Potemkin village?

#35 by Romair on December 1, 2005 12:35pm PT


Nuclear technology and even weapons are, ``exchanged`` quite regularly amongst countries.


Umm...ok...but the paki army still has no choice but to place AQK under house arrest under US pressure...and ``debrief`` him(which is code language for letting the boys from Virginia remove his briefs)


Specifically, because it had nukes. Iran will not be invaded, if it eventually develops nukes. Much like Israel cannot be attacked. Nor can Pakistan. However, Iran may be invaded by the USA (or Israel), according to the two countries` own declarations; that is if it cannot develop


Which is why you can pretty much forget about Indian Kashmir falling into your lap....

Pakistan’s effort to procure nuclear weapons can be traced back to January 1972, immediately following the ignominous surrender in Bangladesh. In that month, Zulfikar Bhutto, the new CMLA of Pakistan, summoned the personnel of Pakistan’s nuclear establishment to a conference in Multan, in which he asked them whether they could build a bomb, and how long it would take. Qadir Khan was in Belgium at the time, winding up his Ph.D. in xerography at Louvain; but Munir Ahmed Khan and other PAEC honchos were present at the meeting under the shamiana in Multan. Bhutto’s threat to have Pakistanis eat grass if necessary to acquire a bomb if India did, was made in the sixties.

Munir Ahmed Khan and company made the technically sensibly choice of going down the plutonium route – uranium enrichment is technically more difficult and uranium is in most respects inferior as a bomb-making material.

Re: # 32 Godot

The Living Quarters 49:12

O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: And spy not on each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it...But fear Allah: For Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

I don`t know about you but as a Muslim this is my guiding principle; and so it is for millions of Pakistanis who consider Dr. Qadeer their hero. Please read the article before commenting, because after reading it, the matter of allegation on Dr. Qadeer for stealing nuclear technology does not remain a matter of suspicion but a matter of knowledge. As a fellow human being we have also responsibility towards Dr. Qadeer to accord him the respect that he desreves and if not, at least try not to disrespect him. The matters of law are not ambigious or rhetorical. Laws and the verdicts that are delivered according to them are simply based on evidence that is provided in the court of law. If you read the article you will know that court acquitted him of any charge of stealing nuclear technology and that the technicality was only used by his lawyers as a leverage. Furthermore the ministers in the Dutch parliament testified that it was not humanly possible to steal the nuclear technology in 16 days that Dr. spent in the facility. If despite of knowing this truth, one wants to malign Drs. good name than one can only feel sorry for his system of values and his upbringing.

As far as the allegation of Dr selling nuclear secrets to other countries is concerned, I don`t think it is humanly possible, unless government is involved in it. Dr. is one of the most important and prized personalities in the history of Pakistan and a considerable amount of human and capital resources are spent to protect him. I don`t think GOP can play innocent here that Dr ``sold` secrets without its knowledge. These coward dictators are only saving their own skins and in the mean time they are insulting Pakistani nation because their masters demand it. I can bet my ass that everybody in this forum must have heard the phrase in their lifetime when rich people refer to poor, especially their servants ``inn haramzadon ko inn ki auqaat par rakhna chahiyay``. It is the open agenda of neo-colonial powers to degrade our system of values and our heroes. After the vassalage of 200 years every one must know how it works. That is the reason the character assassination of Dr. Qadeer is being done in a systematic way. Do you think that Pakistani nation is so chutiya that it cannot see thru this, then you are sadly mistaken.

I do not doubt that Pakistan must have exchanged nuclear technology with other nations. Though I refuse to accept it as a crime just because neo-colonial powers say so. When sanctions were imposed on Pakistan after coup d`etat in 1999, a cash strapped Paksitan had to generate cash, that was our compulsion. And in exchange if we get better missile technolgy then it is our pragmatism. But accusing Dr. Khan of selling nuclear secrets by himself is lowest of the low and below human dignity.

By the way the so-called ``evidence` that Libiyan dictator handed over to Americans consisted of some papers in a shopping bag of some tailor in Rawalpindi. LA Times wrote a derogatory article on that questioning US governments declaration that that was it - the grand plan to build a reprocessing plant by a rogue Dr. My ass.

Re: # 35

Romair

“I hope you are not serious.”

- Yes, I am.

“Nuclear technology and even weapons are, ``exchanged`` quite regularly amongst countries.”

- They indeed do, but only among those nations that have displayed utmost responsibility that comes with it...they happen to be all European countries, Israel, Russia, China and India.

“nuclear technology (not to mention weapons) are the biggest case of apartheid in the world. There is a completely different set of rules for the rich and the poor.”

- It’s apartheid by necessity.

“Iran`s nukes are obviously as a deterence to Israel`s nukes.”

- “Obviously”! You are saying that Iran feels as threatened by Israel as, say, Pakistan by India? One would say it’s the other way round. It’s Israel that’s threatened by Iran, not vice versa.

“Iraq would not have been attacked, if it actually, ``had`` WMDs”

- If Iraq had nuclear weapons, it would have already used it...against Iran, showing their utmost love for their Muslim brethren.