The American Nightmare: No Exit, No Entry

#111

Zahra G,

As you said, the focus here is on making the pie bigger rather than killing each other upfront about distribution equity. Of course, there will be some inequities, but that’s why we have congress and political structure to sort those things out.

As a friend pointed out long time back to me, the whole system has evolved over 200+ years to make it work like a well balanced ecological system which gets rid of old and inefficient and constantly encourages birth and development of new ideas. Political processes, popular culture and financial markets are all geared towards making this ideal system work.

Other countries may have raw materials or talented people or open minded cultures or competitive zeal, but rarely do they have all of the remaining elements needed to have a self-correcting progressive machine on auto-pilot attracting achievers from all over the world.

Regards.

Dost-mittar #104: ``As far as your comparison of Canada and the US is concerned, it is a case of ``Bud achhaa, budnaam bura``. The US may not tout its multiculturalism, but cultural diversity is as much a fact of life in the US as in Canada. You see hijabi employees both in Canadian and American malls. New York is every bit as muticultural as is Toronto, if not more. Every dance or music or bollywood group that comes to Canada visits more cities in the U.S than it does in Canada. The Americans have accomodated their hispanics by providing them ESL instructions in schools and providing them services in their language in many cases.``

I don`t think I can agree with this.........USA is better than most countries at integrating different cultures, but I have found Canada to be far better. No contest......

First of all, New York is not everybit as multi-cultural as Toronto. Toronto is the most multicultural city in North America. And with the large increases in Canadian immigration, it is getting to a point, where it will not even be a contest. 52% of Toronto`s citizens are immigrants. And in around 10 years to 15 years, 1 out of every 8 residents of GTA will be a South Asian............

Canada is adding 1% of its total population, per year through immigration. Most of which are coming from two areas which culturally totally different from Canada - China and South Asia. Canadian govt. is now thinking of increasing this number to higher than 1%. There is no country in the world that adds 1% of its population, per year, through legal immigration.

Any immigrant who comes to Canada, straightaway, becomes a resident and a part of the system. Unlike USA where they have to go through a six year long H-1 visa process. So many Indians have had to go back to India, since they could not get their green cards in time.

There are various other ways to look at it. There are four major political parties in Canada -Conservative, Liberal, Bloc Quebecois and NDP - every single one of them supports immigration. I don`t know of any country, like that.............

Most importantly, literally anyone can become an Member Parliament in Canada. I can become one. I had no chance in hell of becoming one in USA (or in any other country, unless I was from a Pakistani or Muslim ghetto). Canada has 11 or 12 South Asian members. A Pakistani is a member from the sixth richest constituency in Canada. All three poeple opposing him were, from other parties, were South Asian also! Mississauga - the center of Pakistani immigrants - is the safest city in North America and one of the wealthiest. There are nine (?) Punjabi speakers in the Federal Parliament. The senior most minister - the Health Minister - is a Sardarji (?). He was the governor of the fourth most important province in Canada. His wife is a member parliament also. An unknown sardarji candidate beat out the second most powerful Conservative candidate in an election.

Within ten years, I think there will be two to three more Pakistanis getting elected. Amongst other things, Miss Canada last year was an Indian American. Miss Canada, for the year before that, was an Irani Muslim!!

I think a lot of this has to do with with handling Quebec. For all the trouble it has caused Canada, it has adjusted it to a form of society, which can handle a lot of multi-culturism........

This is not to take anything away from America. For a long time, it was (and perhaps still is) a lot better than other Western countries (like France etc.). My own experience was quite positive in USA. But my personal experience, through recent immigration and an interest in statistics, indicates that Canada is way ahead in adjusting to multi-culturism...........

This article on the US economic system that makes no reference to incentives for creativity, entrepreneurship, makes no mention of incentives to invest in technological and scientific progress, makes no mention of the rapidly increasing share of knowledge to the value-added of goods generated by this system and the resulting change that is bringing about a fundamental changes in human society (and indeed, in the very evolution of humanity itself, as per the recent book by Kerweil e.g.), makes no mention of globalization and of related developments outside the US including the emergence of the third world, makes no mention of experience with alternative economic systems tried in the 20th century, makes no mention of employment generation aspects of this economy vs alternative models in developed nations today, makes no mention of incentives for environmental impact and sustainability of the economy, makes no mention of the role of special economic interests in political decision making (and the section in the article saying media misrepresents the economy is not even close to the heart of the issue), makes no mention of how the system deals with the tectonic demographic shifts now underway and their economic implications, makes no mention of the structural changes impacting on inflation.

Otherwise all is fine.

Re: # 115

Tahmed32 Sahib, because it was a vent coming out of an underachieving chimney. Very dark and very carbonmonooxidic. Global warming, I say. More aptly, global jealousy.


# 114
Romair Sahib, Couldn’t you find a bigger insult to us New Yorkers by comparing our city to the shythole called Toronto? For crying out loud, the Brooklyn Museum has more culture than all the 52 provinces of Canadia combined. I know that the US Dollar is not doing very well these days, but it is still stronger than Canadian Peso.

Re: # 93

#93 by freesoul on November 19, 2005 2:02pm PT Score=1 [plus | minus | remove]
Re: #89 by SamiaShah

Freesoul, I did not see a reply # 95 addressed to me. I am however posting a detailed reply since you asked me to do so on this response--I had thought that I had answered it in my previous post--that it was self-evident, but apparently not.

[Freesoul you seem to be a corporate type with the same hang-up that most immigrants from South Asia display. `That people from my country just don`t know how to interact with the American system and I do.`]

(It is ur understanding of American Corp culture, that I am criticizing, not everyone else`s. I have 6 years Pak`s software house company experience, and nearly 6 years here in USA. Worked for the biggest software company in the world in USA. So I think i know what the psyche of Pak worker and a pakistani worker in USA. I have worked in 2 very different companies in Karachi, one run by an ex army colonel, and one run by an atheist and drinker. Needless to say, creativity is crushed under army discipline, and more encouraged in an environment, where nothing is beyond question , not even God. )

I feel I am repeating myself here—the point I am making in the article is about dissent on ethics, not creative brainstorming that is usually encouraged in Corporations especially software companies.

[Also, I have throughout the article acknowledged the incredible open generosity of the Americans and the openness of hiring practices--literally any one from the world can get a job here.]

(Again, a misconception. It is not generosity, it is simply 101 economics. Diversity helps. When u dont care about color of skin, and sexuality of person, u get the best ppl in the genes pool. Microsoft stood for its gay and lesbian employees ever since mid 80s. Not a single opportunity goes by when the company does not make sure that its gay emplyees r not discriminated against, not just inside the company, but even in social life outside the company premises. Again, economics 101. )

I made the exact same point in the article—that a lot of actions are motivated by economics. Whatever the motivation, American companies do not discriminate which is a plus for them since they appear to be open and generous which in turn motivates people to work in America.

[However, corporate types agree on some funadmental ideas otherwise they wouldn`t be in the Corporation. Dissent is encouraged within these boundaries.]

(What r these boundaries? There is a book on Fiefdome Syndrome by Robert Herbold, a seasoned COO. It discusses how creativity can be encouraged within boundaries, so that business discipline can also be ensured. It is tough compromise, but it has to be made. Successfull companies cannot remain on the top if a cabal (like in Enron) is running the the corp. Dissent is always encouraged by decentralizing the corp.

Every US company is not Enron. Rigth now, there might be worst cases than Enron, that r still covered up. But such companies will eventually pay the price for the shortcuts they took, in terms of their employees` morale and productivity. Also, Whistleblowers have state and deferal protected rights, outside the company. And u can not generalize the whole issue by Enron brush. )

I quote, “such companies will eventually pay the price for the shortcuts they took”. Article mentions market corrections.

I quote, “And u can not generalize the whole issue by Enron brush.” Neither can you generalize that the corporation is a/ democratic or even b/anarchist.

(My point is not that all corps r inherently honest. Off course, they will exploit the workforce if they could monoploize the market. Shell could skin ppl in Africa, if it could bribe their govt into silence. I have read in detail about Walmart stories, and if u dig deeper, it is more a case of bunch of greedy employees suing their company. Walmart`s recent leaked memo was another example of propaganda. I read it completely, and i could not undertsand anything wrong in it. If u don;t like Walmart`s medical covergae or promotion grades, just leave the company. BTW, never did any MBA. Now I feel good about it :) )

Any one knows exactly what the corporation excels in doing, producing in bulk and erecting barriers to entry. So, you feel that employees of a corporation that is bigger than some governments should just leave the corporation simply because the employee can find another job? In other words, people should not try to improve the ethics of a system, just simply leave when it starts stinking. And that the politics of self-interest are completely justifiable and even, `natural.`

I quote, “if ur happy with urself and ur article, fine. But ur article lacks supporting facts. It is a bunch of Marxisim-inspired rhetorics, nothing more. “

Your reply is weak. You are saying exactly the same things that I stated in the article. Except that you are content with them and I am critical. We are using different measuring sticks. And you are using capitalist propaganda, little else to refute my arguments.

Regards.

ps; more next article

Re: # 80

Yeah for them Samina. It is interesting to see the trajectory of performance and goals of second generation immigrants.

rgds

S

Re: # 115

I had to put a cap on the number of words and so deleted a couple of pages. Even then many people have found the article long. The topic is huge and this was an intro type column.

Re: # 114

The American melting pot is quite different from the Canadian mosaic. Each has its pluses and minuses. I agree that the Canadian mosaic is more advanced in its understanding and adjustment to immigration than America.

`` But when the lion’s share of the big house, and the big car goes to a finance company, and all the nice things have a higher price than what you paid, Americans feel the terrible trap of consumer debt. ``

I do not own a cellphone. I do not pay for Cable TV. I try to minimize eating outside. I drink rarely @ Starbucks. I rent an apartment when I lived in California. I do not have any debt.

`` The American dream of liberty turned into an American nightmare of debt. With falling or static incomes, debt is a nasty thing to have. ``

very true

`` The American nation created amazing Universities that Americans don’t have the money or time to attend anymore. An American’s life is a graph of lifetime earnings in which education is a terrible expense that reduces credit worthiness. ``

That is a mistake made by individuals

Re: # 110

Thanks GT.

Corporations are not motivated by altruism but by profit maximization therefore, the goal is to become monoplies--the corporation defends against competition. It uses all and every means to do that--from prices, to innovation in products to advertizing to ``capture the market``. Consumer surplus is a happy outcome of competition. However economic models at present do not capture the waste in resources from the needless production of goods. Corporations therefore flood markets persuading the consumer to buy. The original theory was that profits will reduce to 0 over time in a completely free market. However a corporation would rather that never happened. Therefore it seeks alternatives from cheap labour to ``innovative`` production methods to compromises in quality to achieve its ends--that are not necessarily quite what consumers may want. However, consumers have limited power to influence a corporation. Shareholders and consumers of the corporation are different entities. Consumer power in the current form of the corporation is dependent on successful information dissemination only. Enter media. Enter Corporate PR. Enter disinformation.

GT#110:

That producers want to create monopolies is not a new phenomenon. Adam Smith said that when owners of companies meet, all they want to discuss is how to raise prices. The US system is quite alert to this fact. In my view, Americans are pro-capitalism but deeply suspicious of individual capitalists. Indians practically worship Tatas, Birlas, Azimji and Ambanis while Bill Gate has to constantly battle the anti-trust department, the sole purpose of whose existence is to check monopolies. One can debate whether or not it has always been successful in doing so but cannot dispute its powers. It broke the powerful Telephone monopoly and almost broke up IBM and Microsoft.

Romair:

There are admittedly differences in the multiculturalism of Canada and diversity in the U.S. In Canada, it is a state policy to support multiculturalism and a multiculturalism act was passed, surprisingly, by a Tory government. In the US, it is left to the communities themselves as to whether or not they want to preserve their unique identities and most of these communities are preserving those identities to varying extent.

The big difference though is at the political level. Visible minorities in Canada, especially South Asians, and especially Sikhs have mastered the art of political nominations and influence. They have realised that all one has to do to get nominated as a party candidate is to sell a few hundred party memberships and pack the meeting where the candidate is to be elected. The result is that we have some very incompetent visible minority members in the Parliament who are no credit either to the community or to their constituents.

BTW, Canadian States have premiers, not governors, and the wife of the health minister is not an M.P.

correction to #124:

To Romair:

Canadain provinces do have governors or Lt. Governors, but they are appointed, not elected.

Re: # 123

DM 123,

Right. However, ``wanting to collude`` and ``being able to collude`` are different things, more so when the number of producers are large. Modern markets, with fewer producers (corporations), MAY be more prone to collusion. Even then it is a difficult task, e.g. price competition amongst airlines in, at least, peak seasons.

But I was not talking merely about collusion amongst firms. When the ability to collude decreases then firms try to influence government policy. At times, corporations do succeed in doing so (say during the time of the robber barons or as you say Nehruvian India, maybe even today`s India). During such times, growth etc. may also increase (the Meiji restoration and the growth of the zaibatsus, the Korean experience, the 50s and early 60s in India and perhaps today`s China).

My point is that, if one were NOT to focus simply on growth BUT on competition and welfare then reducing the possibility of firm to firm or firm-govt. collusion becomes important. A POSSIBLE mechanism through which this can be achieved is democracy. Suppose we agree with this assumption. I think you do, because you mention the US govt`s propensity to go after the monopolies (by the way an interesting aside is that the Sherman Act was first used to break up labor monopolies - unions!). Now, democracy can be used by all citizens - 18 year old mothers as well as drug addicts. And a majority of the citizens act as watchdogs. So far fine.

Saima is raising a red flag and cautioning us. She claims, and I am sympathetic, that the corporations are now getting to the citizens themselves through the media and such. The slogan is ``Corporations are good for competition, ...Corporations are good for growth.... end of discussion``. It is the ``end of discussion`` which is bothersome. How is growth just by itself good? To make my case, let me give an extreme example. One can achieve maximum growth by investing all present income (say in the neo-classical growth model). But with zero consumption - we have minimum welfare (as utility is assumed to depend only on consumption)!

Let us not forget yesterday`s Soviet Union or maybe today`s China. Saima`s point is further buttressed by the fact that today`s media is obsessed with growth and not welfare. Even in Chowk, growth figures are touted around as if that was the end of everything. Make no mistake, the strategy works because such messages are also accepted by people without much questioning. At least the set of people who benifit from such growth. It is here that the 18 year old mother and the drug addict become important. If their voice is not heard then a system which works fine for us can collapse. BECAUSE of democracy. Keynes, Roosvelt, Arrow, Sen, Nixon, Kennedy etc. were aware of this......so is perhaps Manmohan Singh and the Indian polity. But is Bush aware, are the US elites aware? If not, then I believe that they will be soon.

GT.

Re: # 116

That was funny. LOL. Why would I be jealous of an American of all people!. Poor sod is what I think. Works all his life like a dog and at the end of the day isn`t sure if his insurance will cover his illness costs. Instead the market tells him leave your house and go to India for your operation.

Dost-mittar #124: ``The big difference though is at the political level. Visible minorities in Canada, especially South Asians...... The result is that we have some very incompetent visible minority members in the Parliament who are no credit either to the community or to their constituents.``

I am not sure if it is as simple as this. The number of affluent Indians I have met in USA far outnumbers the ones I have met in Canada. There is no contest. Just Silicon Valley alone, probably has multiple time the wealth under managment of Indians, as all of the Indians in Canada. Yet Indians, Sikhs and South Asians, in general, are a mini-political force in Canada. While they are almost non-existent as a political force in USA. It has a lot more to it than stuffing party meetings......The Canadian society views them in a different manner. And they, view their own position in the Canadian society differently........

As an example, I participated, at a grassroots level, in the political campaign of a Liberal Party candidate. The guy got elected and knows who I am, and calls me. I can go talk to him anytime I want. Now his campaign staff have asked me to become a more permanent member of their team. If I pursue this, I could become quite active in the party. All of this happened, before I had even become a citizen............There is no way I could done this in the USA, at this level.............Or in England or anywhere else (unless I supported someone specifically from a Pakistani or South Asian ghetto).............

By the way, the ability of a stupid member of a minority community to get elected, to me, is the ultimate sign of a country that accepts multi-culturism and supports minority rights. After all, any country may want Manmohan Singh as their Finance Minister. But only Canada will be ready to accept even Dullabhatti as their Finance Minister..........Speaking of which, this maybe why Bhatti Saab has chosen Canada as his home. As have so many other Sardarjis............

``BTW, Canadian States have premiers, not governors, and the wife of the health minister is not an M.P.``

You are correct on both counts. The Health Minister is Ujjal. And the husband-wife pair is Greywal. I will have to add another name to the Punjabi list of MPs.