Religion In A Clubby Hole

Dost-mittar #206: ``First of all, let me say that we are not discussing the limits of science but whether religion is anything other than a superstition and not something that provides rational answers to questions that science does not.``

As I told you, this is not what I am discussing. I was simply discussing what science has or has not proven. And trying to figure out the views of people who have ideological beliefs, and will not accept scientific proof, if it violates their ideological beliefs.

``What they will find out I obviously do not know and wont even be alive to find out if they ever did.``

If one uses this argument, then everything is up for grabs. Anyone can use this argument. Maybe they will find that Santa Claus and the Easter bunny actually exist. As does the tooth fairy. Should we assume that, this will happen........

I would like to suggest to you that you view the things that science has already proven and disproven, and formed laws around. And you accept those, even if they lead to results that go against, things that you ideologically believe in......

In fact, I find it kind of odd that you, of all people, set aside scientific beliefs when they do not suit your ideological beliefs, and state that alien beings may prove them wrong someday. While at the same time, you critique others of having ideological beliefs.

You need to make up your mind. Do you follow science or not? I follow it. And do not denounce it, if it doesn`t suit my purposes............

Re: # 192

Is it a superstition that you ``believe`` that you were born to your parents?? It is a ``belief`` after all. Today you will say I can get a DNA test done to confirm that. But again that test will be a conducted by a Laboratory of which you know nothing. You will have a ``belief`` that the test is right.

Superstition is something whch we believe in without any logic. Agreed. But ``faith`` is not superstition. ``Faith`` or ``trust`` is something which comes out from within you. Its not external.

Re: # 190

``The devil quoting the scriptures``

To whom?? Another devil???

Atheists have a peculiar characterstics. They accuse others of having a blind faith in God. But when they have a blind faith in non-existence if God,it is alright. They accuse others of having superstitions-thats wrong. But when they have superstitous faith in objective science, whose theories change every now and then-its alright. Athiests deny the existence of God but they themselves are ready to accept science in place of God. Thats no problem.

Well, its nothing but having a cake and eating it too.

Folks,

I have sensed that romair mian is trying to escape thru patli gali. He no longer wants to talk about god. Lena pakarna, jaane naa paye........

dost-mittar #206,
``...there are only two groups, not four. Those who think that relgion is a structure based on superstition and hearsay and those who say that it fills the void left by science and should command the same respect.``

Are you kidding?
No serious student of theology believes in either of the 2 options.

#220 Janab,

Mirza Ghalib said.

Chalta hoon thori door her aik raah ro ke saath,
Pehchaanta nahin hoon abhi raahbar ko mein,

Kuch aesa hi masla hay. But its always good to see friendly people present. :)

Romair # various,

If you look at my post # 120 carefully you will realize that my statement that ``science will someday explain ...`` refers to the emergence of organic life out of inorganic matter. You have not produced any evidence to show that this would somehow be a paradox. There is no known law of science that rules it out.

Regarding, creation of matter and energy out of nothing, what I said was this may not be a meaningful question since we may not be able to talk meaningfully about `before` the creation of time.
There is no paradox here. All we know is something exists. Was there nothing before that? Was there even a before?

I am not claiming that science answers everything. But neither of your examples is valid as an example of limitation of science.

malikjahanzeb sahib, we see you here far less frequently than many people see God. Kya masla hai, Janab? :)

Anil # 217,
The way human knowledge has evolved in the last 200 years, compared to the last 4,000 years is massive, and it is only going to increase, unless something catastrophic happens that push back human civilization back by thousands of years. Personally, I see OBL in this light.

I dont think humans have evolved more now than before. the tremendous changes that we are seeing in the world can be attributed to the discovery of electricity which has completetly changed the world.

#197
to Romair bhai, aap ne group 4 mein beth ker abhi tak kiya `khatta` hay?

Please keep us posted with the latest research. Also, please enlighten us wiht your methodology of this `unbaised research`. We in groups-other-than-four are desparate for some enlightenment.

Re: # 212
Hamidm Sahib:

And Heisenberg`s Principle of Uncertainty (the foundation of Quantum Mechanics) showed both Newton and Einstein (for discarding the constant in his equation) theories fail in case of very small particles, distances and time.

Romair:
2 + 2 = 4 is not law. It is decimal number system to represent mathematical information. Some higher involved intelligence may have even better system of representation. I would certainly not call the mathematical system of representation of information as law.

Physical laws are different. Newtonian physics is based on space being absolute, while Einstein said velocity of light which dobservable Universe is constant, where the momentum and hence the energy would be so great that all matter will explode and dissipate into energy. It was from the laws of Thermodynamics (Lord Kelvin - I presume) who defined the Absolute Zero as the coldest temperature when all energy is Zero. The third aspect of this Universe is defined by Maxwell`s laws of Electromagentism. The fourth one is Laws of Quantum Mechanics, including Heisenberg`s principle of uncertainty and Schrodinger`s wave equations. There are attempts to come up with Grand Unified Theory.

The way human knowledge has evolved in the last 200 years, compared to the last 4,000 years is massive, and it is only going to increase, unless something catastrophic happens that push back human civilization back by thousands of years. Personally, I see OBL in this light.

Anil

LOL

`Mr. Black circle man, more like Romair confusing swordfish with lawnmower.`

LOL.. That is funny. No Hamidm could not say that. I know who can.

#Romair

Who says 2+2 is always equal to 4? Yes, 2 apples plus 2 apples is equal to 4 Apples. That is 2 multiplied by an apple plus 2 multiplied by an apple is 4 multiplied by an apple. But I claim that 2 zeroes plus 2 zeroes is equal to 8 zeroes.

I do not see science or god crumbling.....

GT

Re: # 179

Gannu Miah`s disappointment with houries is understandable. I have heard (of course religion means believing in hear-say) that houries have no holes, inward or outward. This is understandable also after that Gandam scandal. God could no longer trust the humans.

But what about women? What will they get in heaven; Hooras?

Re: # 208

romair,

...... i will not dignify your clueless query about ``broken laws`` with an answer except for two words: newton and einstein

.................every sophomore knows that einstein showed that newton`s three laws of motion were only approximately correct, breaking down when objects approached the velocity of light ................. some of them even know that newton`s law of gravitation was also only approximately correct, breaking down in the presence of very strong gravitational fields........ they might not understand all the implications but they do know that it was a significant theoretical shift and that the same thing can happen again ............... and it happens all the time in medicine when a theory that was considered to be ``true`` for many many years is overturned when new evidence is found ..........

....... please contact dr. gill for more answers or take a class in elementary physics ............