Religion In A Clubby Hole

Re: # 266

``Ishwar-Allah Tere Naam``

Which one do YOU believe in? Here is a list of the different Gods that Egyptians of yore believed and worshipped : P.S. Not started on the Roman or Greek, gods yet.

Below is a listing of the main gods and their primary place of worship.

Amaunet - A female counterpart to Amon and one of the primordial gods of the Hermopolitian Ogdoad (group of eight gods). She was also worshipped at Thebes along with Amon and Mut.

Amon - Usually associated with the wind, or things hidden, and was also of the Hermopolitian Ogdoad. At Thebes he became Amon-Re, king of the gods. He was part of the Theban Triad, along with Mut and Khonsu.

Antaios - He was originally a double god, ``the two falcons``, that was later joined to create one, probably that of Horus.

Anuket - Worshipped at Elephantine, she was associated with the gazelle.

Apis - Seen as the bull with a solar disk between its horns, Apis was associated with Osiris and Ptah.

Aton - Also known as Aten, he was worshipped at Tell `Amarna.

Atum - A primordial god that was represented in the form of a human and a serpent. He was the supreme god in the Heliopolitan Ennead (group of nine gods) and formed with Re to create Re-Atum.

Hathor - The goddess of love, dance and alcohol was depicted as a cow. At Thebes she was also the goddess of the dead. She was worshipped at Dendera as the consort of Horus and Edfu, and was associated with Isis at Byblos.

Horus - The earliest royal god was the shape of a falcon, with the sun and moon as his eyes. The sky-god was the ruler of the day. The many forms of Horus are; Re-Harakhti, Harsiesis, Haroeris, Harendotes, Khenti-irti, Khentekhtay (the crocodile-god), and Harmakhis, which is Horus on the horizons, in which the Sphinx of Giza is considered to be his aspect.

Isis - The mother of Horus and sister and consort of Osiris was worshipped at Philae. Associated with Astarte, Hathor, Nut and Sothis, she was later worshipped over the entire Roman Empire.

Khnum - Resembling a human with a rams head, he was worshipped in Hypselis, Esna, Antinoe and Elephantine.

Khonsu - the moon god was the son of Amon and Mut. The main temple at Karnak is dedicated to him.

Min - God of fertility coalesced with Amon and Horus. Min was mainly worshipped at Coptos and Akhmim.

Mut - Worshipped at Thebes, she was a consort of Amon and part of the Theban Triad (group of three gods).

Nut - Mother of the sun, moon and heavenly bodies.

Osiris - He is regarded as the dead king that watches over the nether world and is rejuvenated in his son Horus. As the symbol of eternal life he was worshipped at Abydos and Philae.

Ptah - Worshipped in Memphis, he coalesced with Sokaris and Osiris.

Re - He was the sun god of Heliopolis. From the fifth Dynasty onwards he becomes a national god and is combined with the supreme deity Amon.

Serapis - He was mainly worshipped in Alexandria and was later worshipped by the Greeks as Zeus. He was never fully accepted by the Egyptians in the Ptolemaic period.

Sekhmet - She was part of the Memphite Triad with Ptah and Nefertem. She was the mistress of war and sickness.

Seth - The son of Geb and Nut in the Heliopolitan Ennead was in the form of an animal that has no zoological equivalent. This powerful god was regarded as god of the desert, making him a god of foreign lands.

Shu - He was an ancient cosmic power and was regarded as the god of the air and the bearer of heaven.

Sobek - He was a crocodile god and was worshipped at the Faiyum and Ombos. During the middle Kingdom he coalesced with Re, Sobek-Re, and was worshipped as primordial deity and creator-god.

Thoth - He was worshipped as a baboon in Hermopolis. He was the god of sacred writings and wisdom.

The kings of ancient Egypt were an integral part of religion. They formed a bridge over the chasm dividing the people and the gods.

Re: # 267

None of them.

Because religion has moved since and One, Single, Monotheist, Formless, Omnipresent, All powerful God described as Allah in Quoran, Ishawar in Bhagwadgita and simply God in christianity is the most accepted definition of God in which most of the believers have faith.

The concept of Ishwar/Allah does not subscribe to multiple Gods each responsible for some natural process. It is one single God who is the creator, preserver and destructor of the worlds.

Re: # 255

Buddha was an explorer, the only one with scientific temperament. Most of his early life was spent on quest for meaning of life. Others like Mohammed and Christ appear to be possessed men.

Romair,

Einstien`s predictions have come out of theories only. A system of clocks on a rocket has been actually made to fly around the earth on a very high speed and it was found out that they lost some time.

A classic example of science being corrected Newton`s carpuscular theory of light in which he attributed light to comprise of tiny particles. And when the shift was made towards `light as a wave` theory, an imaginary medium called ether was introduced to fill in the whole uinverse with, as a means for light `waves` to travel. After that, the idea of ether was also shunned in the face of modren work.

These are some clear examples of older science being falsified by itself, only under the agenda of honesty and progress.

Now which quranic ayat are you ready to drop?

hamidm mian #241: You are still stuck in an ideological view, i.e. you claim to know the one truth. And are going to reject any science that points in some other direction........Make up your mind. Do you want to accept or reject science, as and when it fits your views. I think if your, ``ideology`` had stated that energy and matter cannot be created from nothing, you would be ridiculing anyone who was making the current argument you are making........

I don`t want to rub it in any furthur, since your argument is as amusing as the one Naqshbandi makes about his flying historical pirs. I supposed if we use your argument, then one day science will prove that pirs actually could fly, even if all established evidence proclaims they could not..........

``.... .... if you remember you had asked me to give you an example of how/when scientific ``laws`` were proven wrong - i gave you one (one that most children are familiar with) ``

You had stated that physical laws are being turned over, ``all the time.`` I said they weren`t being turned all the time. Only in cases, when the original law did not use the correct parameters. Now over to Eintein and Newton.

You have made a big enough fool of yourself, by commenting on issues you have no knowledge of, simply to support your ideology. So I feel bad doing this, but it must be done. Because I don`t like ideologues, i.e. people who think they have the answer and reject any science that refutes it.......

Are you stating that Einstein, ``overturned`` Newton? Are you really serious? Did you study this or do you only have Mr. Google to thank for this? If Einstein overturned Newton, then why the hell are all the schools and universities in the world, still teaching us that every action has an equal and opposite reaction? That there is a force called Gravity? That F = ma? Which part of this became wrong, after Einstein? Do enlighten us?

This is what Einstein did. Now kindly open up your know-it-all ideology-filled MBA mind and listen: Newton`s laws are still valid, within the frame of reference he formulated them. Which is why they are still taught, along with Einstein`s. Einstein showed that, in a situation in which the amount of gravity is larger than what Newton`s frame of reference considers, the laws will not give an accurate answer. They will be, ``slightly`` off. He showed tiny variations, depending on the amount of gravity in mass, time etc. The orbit of a planet next to the sun will be somewhat different that one that is furthur away. The variations of time are so tiny, even in a different frame of refernece, that even the most sophisticated of clocks cannot calcuate them yet. We only know them through theories.

Similarly, it has been furthur proven that even Einstein`s laws require a certain variation if we get to extreme gravity situations, like Black Holes. I assume this is the area where Stephen Hawkings is working. I will start studying that, if I get time....

I would hardly call any of this, ``overturning.`` Or Einstein proving Newton, ``wrong.`` And each and every one of these discoveries furthur proves that energy and matter, though interchangeable, are still not spontaneously creatable.............

Now do you undersand, why it is so frustrating to debate with ideologues, who will not offer any explanation for their beliefs, nor do they understand the subject they are debating, nor do they recognize science, yet will not change their views..........

There is, indeed a paradox in scientific and logical thought.........accept it.........or provide scientific counterarguments........not simple wishful thinking........or remain stuck on your ideology. But if you are going to remain stuck on your ideology, which goes against science, then don`t complain when Naqshbandi says his pirs used to fly and Urstruly says that God`s existence can be proven. Infact, there is more of a chance of pirs actually flying then things getting created from thin air, if you ask me.............

Re: # 250

roamir mian,

okay ......... you win and i will accept your argument that god created this mess ...... isn`t that what you are trying to say in your own convoluted way by invoking einstein and your own special interpretation of ``something cannot be created out of nothing`` (astaghfirullah) ......... i would like to remind you that, to the contrary, i have not used science to prove or disprove god .......... all i was saying is that the character of god as pushed by believers (that includes urstruly, naqshbandi, tahmed and you) is quite abhorrent ...........personally, i have no idea whether he exists or does not exist .......

......... you remind me of this foolish creationist i saw on tv the other day trying to use ``science`` to prove his point - it is rather pitiful ............ and i should know better than to argue with a fauji - i can still remember my father lecturing my doctor sister on medicine ! ............ it is not your fault - old habits die hard ..........

Here is an article on why `creation out of nothing` is only a pseudo-paradox.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/adolf_grunbaum/explanation.html

Romair,

Let me say this one more time.

The fact that matter and energy cannot be created out of nothing does not lead to any kind of paradox.

If not for religion, people would have more spare time to engage in sex and other fun stuff. At least three days out of a week would be freed up for more football. Thousands of tax-free buildings, many many expensive religious schools, billions of madrassas churning out bearded tornadoes would not exist. Little boys would be safe from weird men wearing frocks. People would piss on the wailing wall and would bang their heads in the direction of Saudi Arabia only because of the price of gas. The rivers would be safe from sexual assault by millions of unwashed and filthy bodies and men would only shave their heads for pussy.

Re: # 245

And may I add `` More time for the pornography and the prostitutes ``. LOL.

#215 *** LOL.. That is funny. No Hamidm could not say that. I know who can. ***

mannyd, thanks. :)

Romair:

You are in a pointless discussion. We have all ``admitted defeat`` and accepted that science has not provided answers to the mysteries of life and death and may never do so. Now, can we get to the other debate that people want to engage in, i.e., the myths and superstitions purveyed by religions that they know what scientists do not? And why is Satya Baba a charlatan but long dead people claiming to be prophets or Gods were not so?

parthaab:

I have never accepted Sai Baba`s miracles to be anything but tricks. I was only giving him as a benchmark. Why is it easy to dismiss him as a charlatan while accepting equally ridiculous claims of long-dead people based on hearsay.

Re: # 242

dost-mitttar,

....... i think by now you have an appreciation for the pain of the pakistani people at the hands of their omniscient military :)

..... so be gentle ........

Satya Sai baba has been challenged several times to submit his `miracles` to scrutiny. He is escaping every time into she shelter of the hundreds of gullible devotees that surround him. Not only the Bible but many religious books and mythologies contain such stories as walking on water, lifting up a mountain or breaking the moon. They never happened. They are just myths ascribed to prophets to make them look great and extraordinary. This very attempt has distorted the picture of the prophets and separated them from the people. Christ did not require walking on water to prove his greatness. His Sermon on the Mount, service to the people and chastisement of anything in sincere were sufficient to make him respectable. On the other hand by ascribing miracles to great men, the usefulness of their lives was lost, since people worshipped them rather than adopting the way of life which they taught and showed by example. If `miracles alone would make a man great, every juggler would be great.

The belief in god has little to do with miracles. The faith is an expression of the slave mind of man. The vested interests in slavery divert attention and side track thinking of miracles. The greatness of anyone consists in honest living and service to the people but never in making `miracles.` Those who talk of miracles are either dupes or cheats.

Re: # 240

I think Mr.Parthaab, you are confusing many things together. That is, God, religion and the deeds done by human beings in the name of religion.

Let us take Islam. Today there is cry of Jehad from certain quarters in Islam. But the thing is that out of 114 or chapters in the Holy Quoran, Jehad is mentioned in only one or two chapters. Further, Jehad is permissible under certain conditions. In balance 113 or so chapters Quoran teaches tolerance only. But if a few people hijack the whole religion out of muscle power, then the religion is not to be blamed. Yes..we ordinary people have to fight continously with whatever resources we have against these demagouges.

I agree with you that certain miracles are mentioned in the scriptures of all religions including Quoran. But the fact is that Jesus, Prophet Mohammed are not revered because of the miracles they performed. The are revered for the overall message they have given to mankind.

I dont agree that faith in God is a sign of slave mentality. Faith in God or for that matter in anything comes from within. From one`s own self. It cannot be taught or forced upon anybody.

Caste system was based upon faith in karma and rebirth. It laid down that wicked characters were destined to be born in lower castes. So the assumption of division of labour and specialization of functions do not hold good in respect of the caste system. On the contrary, caste system held people apart in isolations in grades of degradation ending in untouchability. Therefore caste system is antisocial and inhuman. It subsisted in early times when people were religiously superstitious. In this age of democracy and equality, caste system is not only outmoded, but opposed to social justice and love for equality.

Division of labour is a social convenience and skills can be hereditarily communicated. But there should be no bar on change of professions according to change of tastes and no profession should be held inferior to another. In the caste system there was arrogance of intellectual professionalism in the Brahmins, while manual labour and tasks of sanitation were deemed menial and loathsome.