Religion In A Clubby Hole

chaltahai #66: ``Re: # 66: Who created God?``

I don`t know. That`s my whole point! How exactly does one answer this question about creators? One cannot answer it. Everything, according to science, should have a creator. Yet science, itself, cannot tell us how the initial creation took place. That is the anomoly, the paradox and the Catch-22.

If science is the end-all, at all levels, then it should provide the answer. Or a path to an answer. However, despite how many times I provide this logic to certain people, they never debate it. They just wirte it off..........

One has to be able to realize the limitations of everything - be it religion, science or the human mind as a whole.........Who created God is a question that no amount of logic or science can answer. Infact, science, itself, states that it cannot answer such questions........

This is why people turn to religion. It fills this gap............and if people want them to turn away from religion, they need to answer this question or creation. Instead of yapping away 24 x 7, as if they have all the answers..............

Dost-mittar #79: ``Upnashidic philosophies and Romair, if born a Sikh, would claim that he likes Sikhism not because he was born in it but because he is genuinely impressed by it after he studied it. The fact is that the brainwashing by parents and the society we grew up in has removed any objectivity we could have in making any such decision, all we are capable at this point is rationalising,``

Speak for yourself. Kindly do not speak for me..........You seem to be making some huge assumptions about people. Do keep in mind that everyone does not think like you. Do also consider the possibility also that, perhaps, people are far more inquisitive than you and some may have even evolved beyond you. A tough concept to internalize, but you should keep it in mind..........

The main point is can one debate any issue and provide answers. People turn toward thought processes that provide answers. Not towards though processes that shut them away from answers................At least that is how I think. I am a technical and scieintific person by education, and have thought through these issues ad-nauseum. So far I have found nothing, including science, that answers everything............

(If you know of something, do let me know. And I promise I will switch to it...........)

That is how one should reach one`s conclusions............One can only do that if one opens up one`s mind a bit and gets out of rigid schools of thought - scientific and religious - and tries to logically work through things and accept any dead ends..............Far too many people, including perhaps you, are stuck in a strait-jacketed type of thinking, which assume that everyone who does not think like them, must be brainwashed.........

khurram #70: ``There are 2 perfectly reasonable answers that need to considered,

1. Nothing
2. Nothing``

hmm.........i suppose this keeps things simple.......and one does not need to think furthur.........it answers the, ``why`` of life, i.e. everything is a mere coincidence. I suppose one can follow this approach. Though, to me, in such an approach, life is a very unfair place, for those who are physically or mentally handicapped etc. To me, ``life`` cannot be a roll of dice. But that is a non-scientific debate...........

Let`s get to the scientific side. You did not answer the other questions I asked, about the, ``how.``

- How did the first, ``thing`` get created, if everything has to be created from and by something else, as science tells us? How did the whole mass of everything get created, energy, atoms etc. The initial building blocks.....Science, itself, demands that the answer to this cannot be a simple, ``Nothing.``

- And how did these unorganic building blocks combine to form organic life? Is science, itself, moving towards a solution for this, or is it suggesting that it is impossible.......

Now if you have answers to both of these questions, I`ll convert to whatever you are pushing..............

Sam (the famous world`s ugliest dog, that died today according to cnn) sends this message:

``I met up with God today.``, reports Sam. ``He has been following this discussion on chowk with amusement. Says that rumors of His absence are greatly exaggerated. Although He doesnt really mind people not believing that He exists.

``I dont have a big ego.`` God said, reports Sam the ugly dog. God continues: ``I really dont give a damn one way or another that some two-legged insect on earth doesnt believe I exist. I just dont like it when people think they know everything - how the hell can an atheist be sure I dont exist? only an idiot thinks he knows it all, when in fact he couldnt figure his way out of an open garage. All I ask is you be nice to one another, to other creatures, and especially to your dog (ugly as sin though he may be).``

Sam`s message stops briefly at this point (feeding time in dog heaven), and then continues: ``God said he has every mind to pull up Romair when he gets the chance - this guy drives me up the wall!! He thinks he knows everything. Hamidm hates my guts - laughs at jokes made at my expense by that sob George Carlin. Wait till he shows up! I`ll have hamidm sit down and write 1 quadzillion times ``I will....not....laugh at...God``, complete with those dots. Now Dost Mittar is an OK guy. I`ll reincarnate him as chowk editor, or give him the company of thet panjabi speaking women in heaven - whatever he likes.``

Sam`s message ends here.

The religion is to make a person displined in every field of life .And motive can be achieved ,to begin with at the tender age .sweet 16 is not going to help.
Joining religion club is not a bad idea , however if feelings comes from inside.
Creative of this world wants us to keep harmony and love and explore this world , nothing more.

Tahmed32, #84,
that is hilarious.

Re: # 84

Tahmed,

That was funny. Though I think it`s tough to beat hamidm in this category ;-)

Thanks,
Avkrishna

In my view problem is not whether there is God or not. I am ok with if some people think there is God and others think there is not. It is perfectly normal with human behaviour observed on other things in life also. I am also ok if tomorrow we find there is no god or we find there is a God or 20 of them. I hate when defenders of religions sidetrack their opponents by taking discussion to is there a God?.....The prolem is religion or mis-use of it....religion in general...it lays its sole claim on God hence truth..hence claim that anything that others e.g. sceintists can`t explain , religion can explain. Religion`s definition of ``explaination`` is vague and weired....``Here it is , now believe it with full trust or you are going to go to hell``...not really an explaination....Problem is no religion has really exlained in a scientific and logical way how God created this universe if he did it. It had only layed claims to exlpain this question by throwing in myths, fairytales and God says so kind of answers. Had religion answered this question to satisfaction of human mind, no one would have claimed otherwise.


Fact that in spite of religions having thousands of years, thousands of prophets to explain and billions of people over milleniums believing in God, this questions still arises in human mind is a failure of religions and proof that people inspite of putting their trust in God over generations have not found the answer from him through religion.

Re #79,

Initiation into a world view is a necessary part of child`s education, even in the secular world. There is no `bias free` upbringing.
Besides, the `brainwashing` is not as absolute as you think.

Re #83,

``How did the first, ``thing`` get created
And how did these unorganic building blocks combine to form organic life``

If you are asking scientific questions, you should look to science for answer. And the answer is rather simple.
There is not enough data at present to form a reasonable hypothesis. So let`s keep looking. No need to resort to unprovable supernatural hypotheses.

There are plenty of other questions science hasn`t answered yet. (e.g. what causes cancer) Do you have supernatural theories for them too?

If you are going to find religion in the ``gaps of science`` then what are you going to do when those gaps get filled?

P.S. I am not pushing anything.

Pardon my french but what the hell is Salim_Chauhan yapping about in bold?

Can chowk staff please take care of this monster.

thanks.

Re #79 dost,

I agree with you that brainwashing/indoctrination young kids is one of the main, basic, characters of religion. Religion will vapourise into thin air, if it gave just this one up.

What support is there for a movement to outlaw indoctrination of minors? Anyone caught taking a child to a mosq should be fined for brainwashing (for a first offence, subsequently have their children taken into care). And why does a society so keen on child protection allow a religious community to physically mutilate children below the age of consent?

No baptism, no poonal, no circumcision for under 18`s?

Re: # 84

Hello Sam, Since you `re here now, could you pass this message on to god?

Hello God, Nice of you to think of us. We would be grateful if you would mind clearing up one eensy little problem for us?

You see, you made us the way we are, and the way we are is that we don`t actually believe you exist.

The way to change this is to do as follows.

1. Park by the moon the following phrase, written in 4000 mile high letters:

``Hello. God Here. See? I do exist!``

2. In a big booming voice, cast your hand over the world, cure all illness and stop all wars with a single godly gesture, then put a sticky label on all the affected that says `God was here`.

There. That should do it. People like me will not be able to deny your existence!

Re: # 84

Hello Sam, Since you `re here now, could you pass this message on to god?

Hello God, Nice of you to think of us. We would be grateful if you would mind clearing up one eensy little problem for us?

You see, you made us the way we are, and the way we are is that we don`t actually believe you exist.

The way to change this is to do as follows.

1. Park by the moon the following phrase, written in 4000 mile high letters:

``Hello. God Here. See? I do exist!``

2. In a big booming voice, cast your hand over the world, cure all illness and stop all wars with a single godly gesture, then put a sticky label on all the affected that says `God was here`.

There. That should do it. People like me will not be able to deny your existence!


Regards
Parthasarathy B

#67-Chaltahai

You asked ``Who created God?``

Nobody is seeking the answer to that question. The question to be answered is ``Who created us?`` or ``did anybody create us?``

Nobody is looking for Creator of the Creator. We are looking for OUR creator.

Re: # 95

``Who created God?``

Should we pick and choose the questions we are supposed to answer?
Eg. : Answer any three of the following six questions. But dont ASK any questions.