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Yesterday and Tomorrow in India Today #131
Correction


4000 medical doctors,400o Dentists AND 30 ooo engineers ANNUALLYare added I the work force. In BANGLORE Alone

For Better or Worse



replies

#50 by ali87 on June 10, 2003 4:40pm PT
Looks like we have highjacked this discussion again.

This was about accomadation within marriage. I think we should not flood a discussion like this especiall when the women here have some very close to heart topics to discuss.
-----------------------------------

Like?


Women working......where ? India Pak ?......do they have work for ALLeducated college grad professionals Men or Women ............

Why dont to you pull back fromZOOM lense focussing ony on one..

What people arecomplaining about individual pain most of which now is Natoinal & Global cause and effect.....

You want job dfor husband and WIFE like America ?when half the population can`t Get by without scavanging each day ....?

Its the economy stupid

The More The Merrier?
HOW WOUD A nYT Article About ``Muslim Prom`` Play in Indian Media Who Have a Rather Stiff Up NoseTowards MuslimCulture


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/09/national/09PROM.html
At Muslim Prom, It`s a Girls-Only Night


Monica Almeida/The New York Times
Fatima Haque, left, and Anun Asghar admired their dresses before Saturday night?s dance in Fremont, Calif.



)
















By PATRICIA LEIGH BROWN


REMONT, Calif., June 7 ? The trappings of a typical high school prom were all there: the strobe lights, the garlands, the crepe pineapple centerpieces and even a tiara for the queen. In fact, Fatima Haque`s prom tonight had practically everything one might expect on one of a teenage girl`s most important nights. Except boys.

Ms. Haque and her friends may have helped initiate a new American ritual: the all-girl Muslim prom. It is a spirited response to religious and cultural beliefs that forbid dating, dancing with or touching boys or appearing without a hijab, the Islamic head scarf. While Ms. Haque and her Muslim friends do most things other teenagers do ? shopping for shoes at Macy`s, watching ``The Matrix Reloaded`` at the mall or ordering Jumbo Jack burgers and curly fries at Jack in the Box ? an essential ingredient of the American prom, boys, is off limits. So they decided to do something about it.

``A lot of Muslim girls don`t go to prom,`` said Ms. Haque, 18, who removed her hijab and shawl at the prom to reveal an ethereal silvery gown. ``So while the other girls are getting ready for their prom, the Muslim girls are getting ready for our prom, so we won`t feel left out.``

The rented room at a community center here was filled with the sounds of the rapper 50 Cent, Arabic pop music, Britney Spears and about two dozen girls, including some non-Muslim friends. But when the sun went down, the music stopped temporarily, the silken gowns disappeared beneath full-length robes, and the Muslims in the room faced toward Mecca to pray. Then it was time for spaghetti and lasagna.

It is perhaps a new version of having it all: embracing the American prom culture of high heels, mascara and adrenaline while being true to a Muslim identity.

``These young women are being very creative, finding a way to continue being Muslim in the American context,`` said Jane I. Smith, a professor of Islamic studies at the Hartford Seminary in Connecticut. ``Before, young Muslims may have stuck with the traditions of their parents or rejected them totally to become completely Americanized. Now, they`re blending them.``

Non-Muslim students at San Jose High Academy, where Ms. Haque is president of the student body, went to the school`s coed prom last month ? renting cars or limousines, dining at the Sheraton, going to breakfast at Denny`s and, for some, drinking. Ms. Haque, meanwhile, was on her turquoise cellphone with the smiley faces organizing the prom. She posted an announcement on Bay Area Muslim Youth, a Yahoo news group scanned by young people throughout the San Francisco Bay area, home to one of the country`s largest and most active Muslim communities.

``We got so close, we wanted to hang,`` said Fatin Alhadi, 17, a friend, explaining the farewell-to-high-school celebration, which involved cooking, shopping and decorating the room, rented with a loan from Ms. Haque`s parents. ``It`s an excuse to dress and put makeup on. Everyone has so much fun at the prom.``

The sense of anticipation was palpable at Ms. Haque`s house this afternoon, including an occasional ``Relax, mom!`` For Ms. Haque and her friends, the Muslim prom ? like any prom ? meant getting your eyebrows shaped at the last minute and ransacking mother`s jewelry box. It was a time to forget about the clock, to look in the mirror and see a glamorous woman instead of a teenager. To be radiant.

Ms. Haque and her Muslim girlfriends dwell in a world of exquisite subtlety in which modesty is the underlying principle. Though she wears a hijab, Ms. Alhadi recently dyed her black hair auburn. ``Everyone asks me why, because nobody sees it,`` she said. ``But I like to look at myself.``

Ms. Haque, who will attend the University of California at Berkeley in the fall, is one of a growing number of young Muslim women who have adopted the covering their mothers rejected. Islamic dress, worn after puberty, often accompanies a commitment not to date or to engage in activities where genders intermingle.

Her parents immigrated from Pakistan, and her mother, Shazia, who has a master`s degree in economics, does not wear the hijab.

Ms. Haque`s decision to cover herself, which she made in her freshman year, was nuanced and thoughtful.

``I noticed a big difference in the way guys talked,`` she said. ``They were afraid. I guess they had more respect. You walked down the street and you didn`t feel guys staring at you. You felt a lot more confident.`` Her parents were surprised but said it was her decision.

Ms. Haque faced some taunting after the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. ``They call you terrorist, or raghead because high school students are immature,`` she said.

But she and her friends say Muslim boys, who are not distinguished by their dress, may have a tougher time in American society.

``The scarf draws the line,`` said Ms. Alhadi, the daughter of a Singaporean mother and Indonesian father. ``It`s already a shield. Without it everything comes to you and you have to fight it yourself.``


Continued
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Yesterday and Tomorrow in India Today
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#123 by ali87 on June 10, 2003 10:42am PT
#116 by bbabu on June 10, 2003
Ali

4000 medical doctors,400o Dentists AND 30 ooo engineers ANNUALLYare added I the work force.

All India level 36000 medical doctors annually qualify ...


What is the use of 99.999% marks when high school grad .HERE can make more than ............if goes in Army for being fromPoor family

Yes college is expensive 100to 200,000$ depending but they get employed not b/c you and i are less but they get first preference and quiet understandably ....

Being Mahan shouting in Bjp Raly or Independence is akin to Mohajir Altaf Hussain yelling muradabad say what you may ...its all on deaf ears for The rest .....

Yesterday and Tomorrow in India Today
#127
Ali

Americans need not starve only India gets better. By your silly argument it means that the rest of the world is starving? while only americans are well fed? ``..sayzAli 87

Ae ba ba take our foods away we spend more money getting thin thanIndia does keeping the seths pounch bulging and oriya whse ribs yu an count from 10 yds ....AWAY ...

Ali seriously what i am saying its allright if indians compare there fate to hungry clotheless dispossed the `challis the vendors the dispossed` even saluting the saheb will bring you better life than them working whole day in sweat shop at less than price of 1/3 rd the price of cell call for less than one minute between children and there friends and parent ..which runs for hours per day .

What you are talking abot are crumbs may befeast there .....

Nothing condescending ....think

History Rehearsing: Dark Ages of Islam replies

#9 by sadna on June 10, 2003 3:35pm PT

WHO knows ?

May the Astrologer Joytsi And People expert on predicting eternal bliss for couples destined to be united permanetly(with no recourse to divorce) shed some light to the ...haze of nil visibility..enquiring mind want to KNOW ;)

For Better or Worse #48

If you are going to be applied laws of this land irrespective not only whether you are shi sunni Maliki or Shafi wahabi or Hanafi its like me tying to memorise all the LAWS ofAll TheCountries All there States ...

Lets discuss areas that laws of THIS land do Not or does not care.

Before going to the Laws hereif you understand in your negotiation that irrespective of dipute prolly 99% of our dispute we ill,setle privately and not let urself be raped shreding any dignity respect that emay have or ourself ...

If we dont go to thenm to tel us what s just intelligent educatedand smart people dont ned a 26 yr old rhoade scholar harvard lawyer tretingme like a baby .......

Yesterday and Tomorrow in India Today

#11,9,8 by bbabu on June 7, 2003 10:52pm PT

sameerJB #1


``Ramakrishna Hegde be the man deserving most credit for attracting so many high-tech companies to Banglore?``

Bbabu this hero-worship of south that may be extension of adulation and devotion to one deity most manifest in figures like Jaylaliyha,N.T.Rama Rao ,Shivaji Ganeshan many of them silly disproportionate ``mooviestar`is also more marked in South.

Things Happen and in Hindsight we blame Halal meat for Indian Muslims plight or or its Deoband clergy men or there womenfolks not striding with horses gallop like Hindu women in Chasid gar and Delhi so how can they be right always.

But they are all wrong reasons for no one is GOD who is human.

In the North even though all was attributed to Nehru even infact ALL india owes Nehru .But just as love and adulation never lasts for ever Yesterday icons Stalin& Lenin, come down with equally loud thump as the roaring crescendo of masses `nara`

Right or wrong Nehru was the longest lasting the real McCoy.Indira may have lasted longer adding the stints. If you take away the hype of I. T. and the fact comparing any Naidu or Shourie to real thing woud be comparing Bill Gates to Graham bell ,Thomas Edison ,Watts of Steam engine or Wrights brother to Air planes.Ford for auto.

Bill gates did not invent anything. He mostly marketed and applied the already present budding computing toys in MIT. And that too NOT alone

The fact that Bill lGates has more money than any King of Any country in the world and past pioneers might not have had more billions than BIll Gates , they are of different era and` THE PRESENT`at the time of Nehru was not Naidu or Shourie or Chidambrams tools to work with.

When you separate the sheep from the goat
as as#9 kamalansh says you can attribute Nehrus failure not putting Sarvarkars portrait in Delhi or like Indira Gandhi to be the first celebrity ont.v. screen ofDoor Darshan only mere 30 yrs ago..Both would-be WRONG. Who knows the exact cause effect.

Its all either circumstantial or co incidental until scientifically proven by Kochs postulate which says mere existence of two to gather like mid eastern-look and terrorism is foolish immature and moronic conclusion but failing to establish cause and effect relation ship.

Assigning superficiality to progress is like singing song in praise to deity or condemnation of icons for our miserable present state.

Women in Religious Scriptures Religion`s Role in Indian Prostitution

In addition to the ways that poverty directs hundreds of thousands of
Indian women to prostitution, there are also various religious forces at
play. These religious aspects of the commercial sex trade frequently
overlap with the basic survival needs created by poverty and its
constraints; but it is in this dimension that Indian prostitution is
distinctly different from prostitution in the West. Indian women, whose
poverty seems to leave them no alternative other than to sell their
bodies, understand, in accordance with their Hindu faith, that their
fate has been determined by forces greater than themselves. In response,
the women commit themselves to prostitution as a religious appeasement
of those forces.

The most traditional, systemic role religion plays in prostitution is
through the Devdasi system.24 Candidates for the system are usually
poor, illiterate rural citizens. In the temple, they take a vow of
prostitution and may initially engage in sexual relations with a
``priest`` in religious practices. They receive a tattoo on their
foreheads, above the red bindi. The red bindi usually denotes marriage
in Indian culture, but in combination with the tattoo, it symbolizes one
who is sexually committed to religion. In addition, the prostitutes put
on a wooden
necklace as a symbol of their commitment. The necklace is never to be
removed. The compounded symbols are intended to permanently mark one as
a devdasi regardless of her dress, location, or demeanor. The
goddess to whom these prostitutes are committed is called Yellaamma.

In an annual fair held during a designated month, the initiation of
candidates is formally recognized. Men come to the fair to observe who
is being initiated. Subsequent to their observation, many men choose a
devdasi. Even married men come to take a woman; it is, after all, an
element of religious practice.

Usually, the man lives with the devdasi for a short period of time. When
the man selects another devdasi or feels that his current religious mate
is no longer suitable, he simply leaves her without responsibility or
obligation. Because of his use, the woman is now considered less
attractive and is subsequently chosen by less influential, less
attractive, or even less respectable men. This cyclical dependency
continues indefinitely, for while her patrons have no commitment to her,
she is committed to being a sexual object. At 23 or 24 years of age, a
devdasi is usually the mother of 6-7 children, each the result of a
relationship
with a different man. She is a relatively unattractive prospect and the
community is not pleased with the presence of a large, unsupported
family. She may be able to take up residence in a brothel in order to
provide some level of self-support. Because she belongs to the goddess
Yellaamma, her fatherless offspring do so as well. While there is a
ceremonial religious event in which she dedicates her children into
prostitution in service to the goddess, it is already a culturally
implicit fact. The children of a devdasi have to continue as part of the
devdasi system. There are no personal options.

Prostitution in India is largely a Hindu industry. When asked who
patronized the prostitutes, ``Pandit,`` a young man interviewed by the IJM
who works as an agent or promoter of prostitutes, made it very
clear that Muslims and Christians were not customers. Specifically in
reference to Muslims he said, ``They may have three or four wives, but
they won`t buy drugs from me or come near a prostitute.`` It is not
uncommon, however, for tourists, including Americans, to patronize
thewomen.

The Hindu worldview is one that encourages tolerance. Those whose
economic situation seems to leave them no alternative except
prostitution learn to tolerate their plight. The hope of reincarnation
discourages them from challenging their circumstances. They hold that by
doing the best that they can within their assigned station in life, they
will be rewarded with higher social status in the next life. If, on the
other hand, they rebel, they will destine themselves to worse
circumstances the next time around.
www.ijm.org/India.htm#prostitution

==========================================

The More The Merrier?
All Ghosh dont come from same family ,i know but Sagarika Ghose is few better Hindian ( hindu Indians ) in my book .....

http://www.indianexpress.com/search/search.php?q=Sagarika+Ghose&np=1&m=&ps=10

The More The Merrier? #2

Couldn`t disagree with that ....

Same is true of bulging eyes of billiion orbits of the skulls astleast higher kliteracy makes higher % of Indians spending greater and greater numbr of hours scanning new in print or news magazines...

As i told a very ``phD`` woman inDelhi who voraceously read history of Atya Char of Wazir Khan towrds Sikhs all in ghjoury details as if it hapened not 500 yrs ago but yesterday

And i quote my impromptu elocutin that still save for repition.


.No one can survive such hatred that ONLY LITERATE HISTORIANS COULD HAVE UNFORTUNATELY HAVE CONDEMNED YOU TO YOU WISH YOU WERE ILLITERATE LIKE THE *?% OF POPULATION WHO CARE DAMN WHAT BOOKS THEY MISSED ATLEAST ARE NOT TORMENTED THE PAIN INFLICTED TO YOU BY YOUR FAVOURITE AUTHORS.....

JUST THINK !

Women in Religious Scriptures
Tipu, #272:
``You have made some revealing points. I agree that many Muslims may have come here (US) to escape discrimination and oppression in their home countries.

But you need to understand the sources of irrational misogynism.**(we know the SOURCE ..Sushil )

The obvious and overt oppression of women is MAXIMUM in Muslim countries. Hence, the feminist voice is loudest from those countries. The point is not unbridled feminism rather it is adoption of principles of fairness and equality among the sexes. No doubt, there irresponsible women as there are men.
user posts | profile
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#18 by Tipu on June 6, 2003 4:39pm PT
WE Watch You Day And Night ..................................

WE are nonviolent stategist only


Book Release Party:
Tantrika: Traveling the Path of Divine Love by Asra Q.
Nomani

Proceeds to Benefit:
BAOBAB for Women`s Rights in Nigeria, defenders of
Amina Lawal

When:
Thursday June 12, 7pm

Where:
Jack the Pelican Presents Gallery
487 Driggs Ave. between N. 9 and N. 10
Bedford stop on the L train, Williamsburg

Directions:
Visit www.JackthePelicanPresents.com

Cost:
This event is free.

For more information:
Contact Rachel Kessler, 917-660-0608.

Asra Nomani will read excerpts from her book Tantrika:
Traveling the Road of Divine Love (Harper Collins) and
speak about zina, the act of ``illegal sex`` punishable
by stoning and lashing, according to some
interpretations of Islamic law.

Proceeds from the sale of books will benefit the
defenders of Amina Lawal, sentenced to public stoning
by a court in Nigeria for having a child out of
wedlock. To read Ms. Nomani`s June 1st Washington Post
editorial, ``She Shouldn`t Be Stoned to Death. None of
Us Should,`` visit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60458-2003May30.html

The book`s title references the Hindu and Buddhist
tradition of Tantra, in which one achieves mystical
enlightenment in part through sexual meditation. Ms.
Nomani initially chronicled the big business of selling
American tantra for a page one article in The Wall
Street Journal.

The book follows Ms. Nomani`s journey of
self-discovery, and of the newfound path of the divine
within herself and all women-tantrikas. The story
begins in America and moves through India into Pakistan
where Nomani went after September 11, 2001, to cover
the war against terrorism for Salon. Fellow Wall Street
Journal reporter and friend Daniel Pearl is kidnapped
and murdered while visiting Ms. Nomani in Karachi,
where she was living.

To try to secure his release, Ms. Nomani worked closely
with Pakistani investigators, the FBI and Mr. Pearl`s
wife, Mariane Pearl. As a result, she was publicly
accused of being a spy for India. And, in reaction, her
boyfriend deserted her. In Muslim Pakistan, where women
have been sentenced to be stoned for sexual offenses,
she knew she wasn`t safe. She left the country.

Ms. Nomani is a staff reporter for The Wall Street
Journal on leave and has written for Salon, Sports
Illustrated for Women and Cosmopolitan. She is a Muslim
born in India and raised in West Virginia.

To learn more about Amina Lawal, visit Amnesty
International`s Web site,
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/nga-010902-background-eng
WWW.ASRANOMANI.COM



user posts | profile

Women in Religious Scriptures Thank You sushil ....

Sushil in Hindi for Gentle ...inEnglish

You are very gentle man ....


Book Release Party:
Tantrika: Traveling the Path of Divine Love by Asra Q.
Nomani

Proceeds to Benefit:
BAOBAB for Women`s Rights in Nigeria, defenders of
Amina Lawal

When:
Thursday June 12, 7pm

Where:
Jack the Pelican Presents Gallery
487 Driggs Ave. between N. 9 and N. 10
Bedford stop on the L train, Williamsburg

Directions:
Visit www.JackthePelicanPresents.com

Cost:
This event is free.

For more information:
Contact Rachel Kessler, 917-660-0608.

Asra Nomani will read excerpts from her book Tantrika:
Traveling the Road of Divine Love (Harper Collins) and
speak about zina, the act of ``illegal sex`` punishable
by stoning and lashing,  according to some
interpretations of Islamic law.

Proceeds from the sale of books will benefit the
defenders of Amina Lawal, sentenced to public stoning
by a court in Nigeria for having a child out of
wedlock. To read Ms. Nomani`s June 1st Washington Post
editorial, ``She Shouldn`t Be Stoned to Death. None of
Us Should,`` visit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60458-2003May30.html

The book`s title references the Hindu and Buddhist
tradition of Tantra, in which one achieves mystical
enlightenment in part through sexual meditation. Ms.
Nomani initially chronicled the big business of selling
American tantra for a page one article in The Wall
Street Journal.  

The book follows Ms. Nomani`s journey of
self-discovery, and of the newfound path of the divine
within herself and all women-tantrikas. The story
begins in America and moves through India into Pakistan
where Nomani went after September 11, 2001, to cover
the war against terrorism for Salon. Fellow Wall Street
Journal reporter and friend Daniel Pearl is kidnapped
and murdered while visiting Ms. Nomani in Karachi,
where she was living.

To try to secure his release, Ms. Nomani worked closely
with Pakistani investigators, the FBI and Mr. Pearl`s
wife, Mariane Pearl. As a result, she was publicly
accused of being a spy for India. And, in reaction, her
boyfriend deserted her. In Muslim Pakistan, where women
have been sentenced to be stoned for sexual offenses,
she knew she wasn`t safe. She left the country.

Ms. Nomani is a staff reporter for The Wall Street
Journal on leave and has written for Salon, Sports
Illustrated for Women and Cosmopolitan. She is a Muslim
born in India and raised in West Virginia.

To learn more about Amina Lawal, visit Amnesty
International`s Web site,
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/nga-010902-background-eng
WWW.ASRANOMANI.COM


-

Women in Religious Scriptures Thank You sushil ....

Sushil in Hindi for Gentle ...inEnglish

You are very gentle man ....


Book Release Party:
Tantrika: Traveling the Path of Divine Love by Asra Q.
Nomani

Proceeds to Benefit:
BAOBAB for Women`s Rights in Nigeria, defenders of
Amina Lawal

When:
Thursday June 12, 7pm

Where:
Jack the Pelican Presents Gallery
487 Driggs Ave. between N. 9 and N. 10
Bedford stop on the L train, Williamsburg

Directions:
Visit www.JackthePelicanPresents.com

Cost:
This event is free.

For more information:
Contact Rachel Kessler, 917-660-0608.

Asra Nomani will read excerpts from her book Tantrika:
Traveling the Road of Divine Love (Harper Collins) and
speak about zina, the act of ``illegal sex`` punishable
by stoning and lashing,  according to some
interpretations of Islamic law.

Proceeds from the sale of books will benefit the
defenders of Amina Lawal, sentenced to public stoning
by a court in Nigeria for having a child out of
wedlock. To read Ms. Nomani`s June 1st Washington Post
editorial, ``She Shouldn`t Be Stoned to Death. None of
Us Should,`` visit
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60458-2003May30.html

The book`s title references the Hindu and Buddhist
tradition of Tantra, in which one achieves mystical
enlightenment in part through sexual meditation. Ms.
Nomani initially chronicled the big business of selling
American tantra for a page one article in The Wall
Street Journal.  

The book follows Ms. Nomani`s journey of
self-discovery, and of the newfound path of the divine
within herself and all women-tantrikas. The story
begins in America and moves through India into Pakistan
where Nomani went after September 11, 2001, to cover
the war against terrorism for Salon. Fellow Wall Street
Journal reporter and friend Daniel Pearl is kidnapped
and murdered while visiting Ms. Nomani in Karachi,
where she was living.

To try to secure his release, Ms. Nomani worked closely
with Pakistani investigators, the FBI and Mr. Pearl`s
wife, Mariane Pearl. As a result, she was publicly
accused of being a spy for India. And, in reaction, her
boyfriend deserted her. In Muslim Pakistan, where women
have been sentenced to be stoned for sexual offenses,
she knew she wasn`t safe. She left the country.

Ms. Nomani is a staff reporter for The Wall Street
Journal on leave and has written for Salon, Sports
Illustrated for Women and Cosmopolitan. She is a Muslim
born in India and raised in West Virginia.

To learn more about Amina Lawal, visit Amnesty
International`s Web site,
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/nga-010902-background-eng
WWW.ASRANOMANI.COM


-

Gujarat, Madrasas and Other Things JUST a REALITY CHECK for Hindian

Gandhi married at age 13 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does it make him non consummate ed marriage by USA state of Massachussetts ?

If So
WHO cares

If Mohommed marriage was 1500 years ago laws why are your balls on fire ????????????

The More The Merrier? Are you contemporary of Barkha Dutta of StarNews (march 2002) which is also defunct (?)