Filtered Posts
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
I know Sucks Sena ,Arjun ,Bewaqoof(need i say more)
``What Next? Concentration Camps``-- Sign at LA Protest
The original INS registration announcement [20 countries]
http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=1353
LA Protest Photos
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/24193.php
ACLU: Keep USA Safe and Free
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFreeList.cfm?c=206&ContentStyle=2
ACLU says INS program pretext for mass deportations
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11503&c=206
LA Independent Media Center report
http://la.indymedia.org/
Live Protest Report
http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/24146.php
Radio Broadcast
http://www.kathymehr.com/test/INS2_files/frame.htm
INS Refuses to report
http://www.indymedia.org/archive/features/current#6530
Iranian Alliance Statement to INS
http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/24217.php
Alliance of Iranian Americans
http://www.allianceia.org/
Green Party of Iran
http://www.iran-e-sabz.org/statements/Arrests.html
12/19/2002
Insane INS
[from Los Angeles Independent Media Center]
500 Plus So-Cal Residents Detained Without Warning
Arab, Iranian, and Northern African residents throughout the United States
went to INS offices this week, for a re-registration program mandated by the
INS. About 1/4 of them were then detained. Since these residents went down
to the INS offices voluntarily, the detentions came as a shock to their
families and the wider community. Upwards of 500 Southern Californians,
(young and old, followers of differing religions), were detained. As of
Wednesday night, many still remain locked away.
It`s fair to assume that others in similar situations are also detained
throughout the country. On Wednesday afternoon there was a massive protest
at the Westwood Federal building, organized in large part by local Iranian
radion stations. Several thousand people came out to support immigrant
rights and condemn the INS` recent practices. Read an on-the-scene report
from the protest. See 19 PHOTOGRAPHS from the demonstration. Posted on the
newswire is a link to a moving website recording detention testimony heard
on one of the AM radio stations that helped organize the rally. Here`s a
statement adressed to the INS from the Alliance of Iranian Americans. The
Alliance states they are raising legal defense funds for the detainees.
The ACLU posted an analysis of the situation and a discussion about the
possibility for further detentions. Here`s a statement from the Irvine-based
website of the Green Party of Iran. And here`s a BBC article (posted on NYC
Indymedia) about the arrests and rally.
News and Analysis:
1) Hundreds Are Detained After Visits to INS (Los Angeles Times)
2) ACLU Calls Immigrant Registration Program Pretext for Mass Detentions
3) Dec 16: INS not to extend deadline for Muslims (United Press)
4) Armenians Don`t Need to Register in US
=============================================================
1) Hundreds Are Detained After Visits to INS
Los Angeles Times
December 19, 2002
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-me-
register19dec19004434,0,6096098.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Da%5Fsection
Thousands protest arrests of Mideast boys and men who complied with
order to register.
By Megan Garvey, Martha Groves and Henry Weinstein
Times Staff Writers
December 19 2002
Hundreds of men and boys from Middle Eastern countries were arrested
by federal immigration officials in Southern California this week
when they complied with orders to appear at INS offices for a special
registration program.
The arrests drew thousands of people to demonstrate Wednesday in Los
Angeles.
Immigration and Naturalization Service spokesmen refused Wednesday to
say how many people the agency had detained, what the specific
charges were or how many were still being held. But officials
speaking anonymously said they would not dispute estimates by lawyers
for detainees that the number across Southern California was 500 to
700. In Los Angeles, up to one-fourth of those who showed up to
register were jailed, lawyers said.
The number of people arrested in this region appears to have been
considerably larger than elsewhere in the country, perhaps because of
the size of the Southland`s Iranian population. Monday`s registration
deadline applied to males 16 and older from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan
and Syria. Men from 13 other nations, mostly in the Mideast and North
Africa, are required to register next month.
Many of those arrested, according to their lawyers, had already
applied for green cards and, in some instances, had interviews
scheduled in the near future. Although they had overstayed their
visas, attorneys argue, their clients had already taken steps to
remedy the situation and were following the regulations closely.
``These are the people who`ve voluntarily gone`` to the INS, said Mike
S. Manesh of the Iranian American Lawyers Assn. ``If they had anything
to do with terrorism, they wouldn`t have gone.``
Immigration officials acknowledged Wednesday that many of those taken
into custody this week have status-adjustment applications pending
that have not yet been acted on.
``The vast majority of people who are coming forward to register are
currently in legal immigration status,`` said local INS spokeswoman
Virginia Kice. ``The people we have taken into custody ... are people
whose non-immigrant visas have expired.``
The large number of Iranians among the detainees has angered many in
the area`s Iranian communities, who organized a demonstration
Wednesday at the federal building in Westwood.
At the rally, which police officials estimated drew about 3,000
protesters at its peak, signs bore such sentiments as ``What Next?
Concentration Camps?`` and ``Detain Terrorists Not Innocent Immigrants.``
The arrests have generated widespread publicity, mostly unfavorable,
in the Middle East, said Khaled Dawoud, a correspondent for Al Ahram,
one of Egypt`s largest dailies. He questioned State Department
official Charlotte Beers about the detentions Wednesday after a
presentation she made at the National Press Club in Washington.
Egyptians are not included in the registration requirement.
Beers, undersecretary of State for public diplomacy and public
affairs, was presenting examples of a U.S. outreach campaign for the
Middle East, which includes images of Muslims leading happy lives
here. Dawoud asked how that image squared with the ``humiliating``
arrests in recent days.
``I don`t think there is any question that the change in visa policy
is going to be seen by some as difficult and, indeed -- what was the
word you used? -- humiliating,`` Beers said. But, she added, President
Bush has said repeatedly that he considers ``his No. 1 ... job to be
the protection of the American people.``
Relatives and lawyers of those arrested locally challenge that
rationale for the latest round of detentions.
One attorney, who said he saw a 16-year-old pulled from the arms of
his crying mother, called it madness to believe that the registration
requirements would catch terrorists.
``His mother is 6 1/2 months pregnant. They told the mother he is
never going to come home -- she is losing her mind,`` said attorney
Soheila Jonoubi, who spent Wednesday amid the chaos of the downtown
INS office attempting to determine the status of her clients.
Jonoubi said that the mother has permanent residence status and that
her husband, the boy`s stepfather, is a U.S. citizen. The teenager
came to the country in July on a student visa and was on track to
gain permanent residence, the lawyer said.
Many objected to the treatment of those who showed up for the
registration. INS ads on local Persian radio stations and in other
ethnic media led many to expect a routine procedure. Instead, the
registration quickly became the subject of fear as word spread that
large numbers of men were being arrested.
Lawyers reported crowded cells with some clients forced to rest
standing up, some shackled and moved to other locations in the night,
frigid conditions in jail cells -- all for men with no known criminal
histories.
Shawn Sedaghat, a Sherman Oaks attorney, said he and his partner,
Michelle Taheripour, represent more than 40 people who voluntarily
went to register and were detained.
Some, he said, were hosed down with cold water before finding places
to sleep on the concrete floors of cells.
Lucas Guttentag, who heads the West Coast office of the American
Civil Liberties Union`s immigrant rights project, fears the wave of
arrests is ``a prelude to much more widespread arrests and
deportations.``
``The secrecy gives rise to obvious concerns about what the INS is
doing and whether people`s rights are being respected and whether the
problems that arose in the aftermath of 9/11 are being repeated now,``
he said.
Many at Wednesday`s protest said they took the day off work to join
the rally, because they were shocked by the treatment.
``I came to this country over 40 years ago and got drafted in the
Army, and I thought if I die it`s for a good cause, defending
freedom, democracy and the Constitution,`` said George Hassan, 65,
from the San Fernando Valley.
``Oppressed people come here because of that democracy, that freedom,
that Constitution. Now our president has apparently allowed the INS
vigilantes to step outside the Constitution.``
Ramona Ripston, executive director of the ACLU of Southern
California, called the detentions doubly disturbing because ``a lot of
the Iranians are Jews who fled Iran because of persecution, and now
they are undergoing similar persecution here.... This is just
terrible.``
Attorney Ban Al-Wardi, who saw 14 of her 20 clients arrested when she
went with them to the registration, said that although everyone
understands the need to protect the nation against terrorist attacks,
the government`s recent action went too far.
``All of our fundamental civil rights have been violated by these
actions,`` she said. ``I don`t know how far this is going to go before
people start speaking up. This is a very dangerous precedent we are
setting. What`s to stop Americans from being treated like this when
they travel overseas?``
Times staff writers Greg Krikorian and Teresa Watanabe in Los Angeles
and Johanna Neuman and Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar in Washington
contributed to this report.
=============================================================
2) ACLU Calls Immigrant Registration Program Pretext for Mass Detentions
December 19, 2002
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
WASHINGTON - In a development that confirms the American Civil Liberties
Union`s initial fears about a controversial immigrant fingerprinting and
registration program, the Immigration and Naturalization Service is
apparently using the program as a pretext for the mass detention of hundreds
of Middle Eastern and Muslim men and boys.
``Given the evidence, there is no alarmism in saying this is a round-up,``
said Lucas Guttentag, Director of the ACLU`s Immigrants` Rights Project.
``Attorney General Ashcroft is using the immigrant registration program to
lock up people who already have provided extensive information as part of
their green card applications,`` he said. ``Therefore the purpose is clearly
not to get information but rather to selectively arrest, detain and deport
Middle Eastern and Muslim men in the United States.``
According to media reports covering growing protests against the detentions,
up to 700 Middle Eastern and Muslim men and boys were arrested in Southern
California by federal immigration authorities after they voluntarily
complied with a new program that mandates the fingerprinting and
registration of all male visitors 16 years and older from certain Middle
Eastern countries. It remains unclear how many others have been detained
across the country, but reportedly a full one-quarter of all those who
complied with the program were arrested in Los Angeles.
The men detained are all from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and the Sudan, the
five countries whose visitors to the United States were required to register
with the INS by December 16.
In most cases, it is apparent that the INS arrested men who were simply
waiting for approval of their green card applications, or those with minor
visa problems caused by incompetence in the agency itself, which has been
plagued by an inept bureaucracy for years. In but one example, the San Diego
Union Tribune reported on July 27, 2002 that the agency recently failed to
process more than 200,000 change of address forms and then unceremoniously
dumped them in the largest underground records facility in the world - an
abandoned mine near Kansas City - putting hundreds of thousands at risk of
wrongful arrest and deportation for failing to report a change of address.
The ACLU also questioned the effectiveness of the program, given the
enormous outlay of resources necessary to engage in detentions on this
scale.
``The INS is wasting an incredible amount of government resources in rounding
up these men and boys,`` said Dalia Hashad, the ACLU`s Arab, Muslim and South
Asian Advocate. ``It seems unlikely that a hardened terrorist is going to
voluntarily register with the government,`` she added. ``What is more likely
is that law-abiding people who were planning to register will now be afraid
to come in because of the arrests, and the INS will use that as an excuse to
deport them.``
By January 10, 2003, citizens of 13 additional countries - Afghanistan,
Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar,
Somalia, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen - must also submit to
registration, a move that could push the detentions into the tens of
thousands, the ACLU said.
=============================================================
3) INS not to extend deadline for Muslims
By Anwar Iqbal
From the International Desk
WASHINGTON, Dec. 16 (UPI) -- The Immigration and Naturalization Service said
Monday that so far it does not plan to extend the registration deadline for
visitors from 17 Muslim countries and North Korea.
Under the National Security Entry Exit Registration System, launched on the
first anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the U.S. government must
maintain photographs and fingerprints of all male visitors from Iraq, Iran,
Libya, Syria and Sudan. Another 13 countries were added to the list in
October.
More than 3,000 men ages 16 and up from the five countries on the first list
need to register by Monday evening. Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria are
also on the U.S. State Department`s list of the countries that sponsor
terrorism.
Another group of more than 7,000 males from 13 other nations are required to
register by Jan. 10. Out of these 13 countries, 12 -- Afghanistan, Algeria,
Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, United
Arab Emirates, and Yemen -- are Muslim. North Korea is the only non-Muslim
country on this list.
A Department of Justice spokesman Jorge Martinez told United Press
International on Monday there`s no plan to extend the deadlines.
``Individuals who approached INS with personal requests on medical and other
grounds, they are being granted waivers, but only on individual basis. No
extension.``
Some Muslim civil rights and advocacy group are urging the INS to extend its
deadline for the registration of non-immigrant visa holders from Muslim
countries.
``The government has done little to spread the word in the Muslim and
Arab-American communities about the requirement to register. Many people may
unwittingly place themselves in the position of being deported merely
because they lack information about the INS order,`` said Jason Erb,
governmental affairs director at the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
Erb expressed concern about reports that a number of those who complied with
the order have been detained based on visa technicalities. He also said some
registrants report being asked inappropriate questions about their mothers
and fathers, credit card information, and even the contents of their
pockets.
``This seems to be another in a series of `dragnet` policies that target law
abiding visitors. These policies are an ineffective and inefficient use of
law enforcement. They create unnecessary fear and apprehension among
visitors to our nation. People are either uninformed or confused about the
orders. We need more time to educate our community about the registration
program,`` Erb said. He added that those who must register should consult an
immigration attorney prior to their interview with the INS.
Martinez also denied reports that INS has added Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and
Armenia to the list of 18 countries whose nationals require registration
while visiting the United States.
``There has been no addition so far to the original list of 18 countries,``
said Martinez.
``We have checked with the INS and so far Pakistan is not on the list of
countries requiring registration,`` said Mohammed Sadiq, deputy chief of
mission at the Pakistan Embassy.
Martinez, however, said that while announcing the list, INS had said that
more countries may later be added through additional notices. ``But I am not
aware when the new notice will appear.``
However, both INS and the Muslim community leaders confirmed that a large
number of male visitors from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have been
individually asked to register at the port of entry. They were also
photographed and fingerprinted.
``Most Pakistani males, aged between 16 and 46, have been ordered to register
while entering the United States,`` said Imran Ali, the counselor officer at
the Pakistan Embassy in Washington.
``There`s no general deadline for them. Each individual was told when to
register,`` said Ali.
Confirming this Martinez said such decisions were by the INS officers at the
port of entry. ``They have the discretionary power to ask visitors from any
country in the world to register,`` said Martinez. ``There`s no discrimination
against any ethnic or religious group,`` he said.
Ali warned visitors to cooperate with the INS officers, saying that the
officer at a port of entry has ``unlimited power`` and ``it is very important
for visitors to understand this. An INS officer can refuse to entertain a
valid visa as well.``
Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are believed to have protested to the State
Department against this practice. ``We have registered our protest at the
highest level,`` says Mohammed Sadiq, Pakistan`s deputy chief of mission in
Washington.
Those signaled our for registration are digitally photographed and
fingerprinted so that investigators can determine whether they fit the
profile of suspected terrorists, as well as aliens with criminal records.
So far, 179 individuals have been detained after registering, but none
turned out to be terrorists, said Martinez.
The INS registration program is the first step in a process that will
include the integration of the system`s database with the FBI`s data on 40
million criminals.
Congress directed that the databases be merged after a notorious 1999 case
wherein the INS deported a wanted serial killer, who later returned and
killed four more people.
INS officials, however, say they have to overcome a number hurdles technical
and political hurdles to fully integrate their system with FBI`s.
The INS system contains two digitally scanned fingerprints of each person,
whereas the FBI`s database stores 10 fingerprints rolled in ink of each
person. That makes it difficult to conduct searches across both databases.
Besides, it takes around two hours to search the FBI`s database, which may
cause huge queues at ports of entry if INS officers also start consulting
FBI records before stamping a visa.
The proposal to integrate INS data base with FBI`s also has alarmed rights
groups who fear that it may lead to race and religion based discrimination
against visitors from certain countries.
Copyright © 2002 United Press International
=============================================================
4) Armenians Don`t Need to Register in US
By CURT ANDERSON
.c The Associated Press
WASHINGTON (AP) - The government dropped Armenians from a list of men
required to register with an anti-terrorism program after Armenian lobbying
groups mounted a furious campaign.
``It was a mistake and we`re glad it was corrected,`` Bryan Ardouny,
executive director of the Armenian Assembly of America, said Thursday.
Government officials denied that political pressure was behind the switch,
saying it was the result of a routine review.
Armenian groups rallied last week after the Federal Register - the official
record of government regulations - stated that males age 16 and up from
Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Armenia would join a list of men from 18 other
countries considered at risk for terrorism.
Such men are required to visit local Immigration and Naturalization Service
offices to be photographed, fingerprinted and show certain documents.
By late Monday, the government reversed course on Armenia, issuing a
statement that only Saudis and Pakistanis would have to register by Feb. 21.
The Armenian Assembly and other groups had contacted the White House,
members of Congress and other government officials urging a change.
The United States is home to about 1.5 million people from Armenia, a
largely Christian country without a terrorist history, and that has a tense
relationship with neighboring Azerbaijan, a predominantly Muslim country.
Armenian officials said they were mystified as to why they were even
considered for the anti-terror list.
A Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the
change was made after a federal interagency group, reviewing terrorist
threat assessments and intelligence, determined that Armenians need not be
included in the registration program. The official denied that political
pressure was the reason.
Publication of the notice Monday - minus Armenia - came on the registration
deadline for men from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Sudan and Syria. These countries
are all considered by the United States to be state sponsors of terrorism.
More than 220 men, most of Iranian origin, were detained in Los Angeles when
they went to register. The large Iranian population in Los Angeles was
outraged, with thousands staging a protest Wednesday against what they
considered unfair arrests of innocent people.
Justice Department officials said the majority of those detained had
overstayed their visas and that, by midday Thursday, all but about 100 had
been released after it became clear they posed no threat. Most will get a
chance to make their case before the INS as to whether they can stay in the
United States.
The overall registration program, officials said, has photographed and
fingerprinted 40,000 people from 135 countries, with another 233 turned away
at the U.S. border.
Men from Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North
Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen
face a registration deadline of Jan. 10.
Those who fail to register can be deported. The program does not affect
permanent residents, men with INS ``green cards,`` or to naturalized
citizens from those countries. Diplomats also are excluded, as well as those
seeking or already granted political asylum in the United States.
Women and children were excluded because their numbers would have made the
program impossible to administer, Justice Department officials say.
On the Net: Justice Department: http://www.usdoj.gov
12/19/02 17:45 EST
----------------------------------------------
``We must mistrust utopias: they usually end in holocausts.``
-Mario Vargas Llosa
Shobak: Alternative Asian Voices
http://www.shobak.org
----------------------------------------------
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Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 06:13 pm
CHOWK PLZ POST entire POST as it contains important links &photos ,ALL PERTAINING TO INS & just as IRS is used to Cow down political advisary in America ,this time INS is being used!!!!!I know Sucks Sena ,Arjun ,Bewaqoof(need i say more)
``What Next? Concentration Camps``-- Sign at LA Protest
The original INS registration announcement [20 countries]
http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=1353
LA Protest Photos
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/24193.php
ACLU: Keep USA Safe and Free
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFreeList.cfm?c=206&ContentStyle=2
ACLU says INS program pretext for mass deportations
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11503&c=206
LA Independent Media Center report
http://la.indymedia.org/
Live Protest Report
http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/24146.php
Radio Broadcast
http://www.kathymehr.com/test/INS2_files/frame.htm
INS Refuses to report
http://www.indymedia.org/archive/features/current#6530
Iranian Alliance Statement to INS
http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/24217.php
Alliance of Iranian Americans
http://www.allianceia.org/
Green Party of Iran
http://www.iran-e-sabz.org/statements/Arrests.html
12/19/2002
Insane INS
[from Los Angeles Independent Media Center]
500 Plus So-Cal Residents Detained Without Warning
Arab, Iranian, and Northern African residents throughout the United States
went to INS offices this week, for a re-registration program mandated by the
INS. About 1/4 of them were then detained. Since these residents went down
to the INS offices voluntarily, the detentions came as a shock to their
families and the wider community. Upwards of 500 Southern Californians,
(young and old, followers of differing religions), were detained. As of
Wednesday night, many still remain locked away.
It`s fair to assume that others in similar situations are also detained
throughout the country. On Wednesday afternoon there was a massive protest
at the Westwood Federal building, organized in large part by local Iranian
radion stations. Several thousand people came out to support immigrant
rights and condemn the INS` recent practices. Read an on-the-scene report
from the protest. See 19 PHOTOGRAPHS from the demonstration. Posted on the
newswire is a link to a moving website recording detention testimony heard
on one of the AM radio stations that helped organize the rally. Here`s a
statement adressed to the INS from the Alliance of Iranian Americans. The
Alliance states they are raising legal defense funds for the detainees.
The ACLU posted an analysis of the situation and a discussion about the
possibility for further detentions. Here`s a statement from the Irvine-based
website of the Green Party of Iran. And here`s a BBC article (posted on NYC
Indymedia) about the arrests and rally.
News and Analysis:
1) Hundreds Are Detained After Visits to INS (Los Angeles Times)
2) ACLU Calls Immigrant Registration Program Pretext for Mass Detentions
3) Dec 16: INS not to extend deadline for Muslims (United Press)
4) Armenians Don`t Need to Register in US
=============================================================
1) Hundreds Are Detained After Visits to INS
Los Angeles Times
December 19, 2002
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-me-
register19dec19004434,0,6096098.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Da%5Fsection
Thousands protest arrests of Mideast boys and men who complied with
order to register.
By Megan Garvey, Martha Groves and Henry Weinstein
Times Staff Writers
December 19 2002
Hundreds of men and boys from Middle Eastern countries were arrested
by federal immigration officials in Southern California this week
when they complied with orders to appear at INS offices for a special
registration program.
The arrests drew thousands of people to demonstrate Wednesday in Los
Angeles.
Immigration and Naturalization Service spokesmen refused Wednesday to
say how many people the agency had detained, what the specific
charges were or how many were still being held. But officials
speaking anonymously said they would not dispute estimates by lawyers
for detainees that the number across Southern California was 500 to
700. In Los Angeles, up to one-fourth of those who showed up to
register were jailed, lawyers said.
The number of people arrested in this region appears to have been
considerably larger than elsewhere in the country, perhaps because of
the size of the Southland`s Iranian population. Monday`s registration
deadline applied to males 16 and older from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan
and Syria. Men from 13 other nations, mostly in the Mideast and North
Africa, are required to register next month.
Many of those arrested, according to their lawyers, had already
applied for green cards and, in some instances, had interviews
scheduled in the near future. Although they had overstayed their
visas, attorneys argue, their clients had already taken steps to
remedy the situation and were following the regulations closely.
``These are the people who`ve voluntarily gone`` to the INS, said Mike
S. Manesh of the Iranian American Lawyers Assn. ``If they had anything
to do with terrorism, they wouldn`t have gone.``
Immigration officials acknowledged Wednesday that many of those taken
into custody this week have status-adjustment applications pending
that have not yet been acted on.
``The vast majority of people who are coming forward to register are
currently in legal immigration status,`` said local INS spokeswoman
Virginia Kice. ``The people we have taken into custody ... are people
whose non-immigrant visas have expired.``
The large number of Iranians among the detainees has angered many in
the area`s Iranian communities, who organized a demonstration
Wednesday at the federal building in Westwood.
At the rally, which police officials estimated drew about 3,000
protesters at its peak, signs bore such sentiments as ``What Next?
Concentration Camps?`` and ``Detain Terrorists Not Innocent Immigrants.``
The arrests have generated widespread publicity, mostly unfavorable,
in the Middle East, said Khaled Dawoud, a correspondent for Al Ahram,
one of Egypt`s largest dailies. He questioned State Department
official Charlotte Beers about the detentions Wednesday after a
presentation she made at the National Press Club in Washington.
Egyptians are not included in the registration requirement.
Beers, undersecretary of State for public diplomacy and public
affairs, was presenting examples of a U.S. outreach campaign for the
Middle East, which includes images of Muslims leading happy lives
here. Dawoud asked how that image squared with the ``humiliating``
arrests in recent days.
``I don`t think there is any question that the change in visa policy
is going to be seen by some as difficult and, indeed -- what was the
word you used? -- humiliating,`` Beers said. But, she added, President
Bush has said repeatedly that he considers ``his No. 1 ... job to be
the protection of the American people.``
Relatives and lawyers of those arrested locally challenge that
rationale for the latest round of detentions.
One attorney, who said he saw a 16-year-old pulled from the arms of
his crying mother, called it madness to believe that the registration
requirements would catch terrorists.
``His mother is 6 1/2 months pregnant. They told the mother he is
never going to come home -- she is losing her mind,`` said attorney
Soheila Jonoubi, who spent Wednesday amid the chaos of the downtown
INS office attempting to determine the status of her clients.
Jonoubi said that the mother has permanent residence status and that
her husband, the boy`s stepfather, is a U.S. citizen. The teenager
came to the country in July on a student visa and was on track to
gain permanent residence, the lawyer said.
Many objected to the treatment of those who showed up for the
registration. INS ads on local Persian radio stations and in other
ethnic media led many to expect a routine procedure. Instead, the
registration quickly became the subject of fear as word spread that
large numbers of men were being arrested.
Lawyers reported crowded cells with some clients forced to rest
standing up, some shackled and moved to other locations in the night,
frigid conditions in jail cells -- all for men with no known criminal
histories.
Shawn Sedaghat, a Sherman Oaks attorney, said he and his partner,
Michelle Taheripour, represent more than 40 people who voluntarily
went to register and were detained.
Some, he said, were hosed down with cold water before finding places
to sleep on the concrete floors of cells.
Lucas Guttentag, who heads the West Coast office of the American
Civil Liberties Union`s immigrant rights project, fears the wave of
arrests is ``a prelude to much more widespread arrests and
deportations.``
``The secrecy gives rise to obvious concerns about what the INS is
doing and whether people`s rights are being respected and whether the
problems that arose in the aftermath of 9/11 are being repeated now,``
he said.
Many at Wednesday`s protest said they took the day off work to join
the rally, because they were shocked by the treatment.
``I came to this country over 40 years ago and got drafted in the
Army, and I thought if I die it`s for a good cause, defending
freedom, democracy and the Constitution,`` said George Hassan, 65,
from the San Fernando Valley.
``Oppressed people come here because of that democracy, that freedom,
that Constitution. Now our president has apparently allowed the INS
vigilantes to step outside the Constitution.``
Ramona Ripston, executive director of the ACLU of Southern
California, called the detentions doubly disturbing because ``a lot of
the Iranians are Jews who fled Iran because of persecution, and now
they are undergoing similar persecution here.... This is just
terrible.``
Attorney Ban Al-Wardi, who saw 14 of her 20 clients arrested when she
went with them to the registration, said that although everyone
understands the need to protect the nation against terrorist attacks,
the government`s recent action went too far.
``All of our fundamental civil rights have been violated by these
actions,`` she said. ``I don`t know how far this is going to go before
people start speaking up. This is a very dangerous precedent we are
setting. What`s to stop Americans from being treated like this when
they travel overseas?``
Times staff writers Greg Krikorian and Teresa Watanabe in Los Angeles
and Johanna Neuman and Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar in Washington
contributed to this report.
=============================================================
2) ACLU Calls Immigrant Registration Program Pretext for Mass Detentions
December 19, 2002
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
WASHINGTON - In a development that confirms the American Civil Liberties
Union`s initial fears about a controversial immigrant fingerprinting and
registration program, the Immigration and Naturalization Service is
apparently using the program as a pretext for the mass detention of hundreds
of Middle Eastern and Muslim men and boys.
``Given the evidence, there is no alarmism in saying this is a round-up,``
said Lucas Guttentag, Director of the ACLU`s Immigrants` Rights Project.
``Attorney General Ashcroft is using the immigrant registration program to
lock up people who already have provided extensive information as part of
their green card applications,`` he said. ``Therefore the purpose is clearly
not to get information but rather to selectively arrest, detain and deport
Middle Eastern and Muslim men in the United States.``
According to media reports covering growing protests against the detentions,
up to 700 Middle Eastern and Muslim men and boys were arrested in Southern
California by federal immigration authorities after they voluntarily
complied with a new program that mandates the fingerprinting and
registration of all male visitors 16 years and older from certain Middle
Eastern countries. It remains unclear how many others have been detained
across the country, but reportedly a full one-quarter of all those who
complied with the program were arrested in Los Angeles.
The men detained are all from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and the Sudan, the
five countries whose visitors to the United States were required to register
with the INS by December 16.
In most cases, it is apparent that the INS arrested men who were simply
waiting for approval of their green card applications, or those with minor
visa problems caused by incompetence in the agency itself, which has been
plagued by an inept bureaucracy for years. In but one example, the San Diego
Union Tribune reported on July 27, 2002 that the agency recently failed to
process more than 200,000 change of address forms and then unceremoniously
dumped them in the largest underground records facility in the world - an
abandoned mine near Kansas City - putting hundreds of thousands at risk of
wrongful arrest and deportation for failing to report a change of address.
The ACLU also questioned the effectiveness of the program, given the
enormous outlay of resources necessary to engage in detentions on this
scale.
``The INS is wasting an incredible amount of government resources in rounding
up these men and boys,`` said Dalia Hashad, the ACLU`s Arab, Muslim and South
Asian Advocate. ``It seems unlikely that a hardened terrorist is going to
voluntarily register with the government,`` she added. ``What is more likely
is that law-abiding people who were planning to register will now be afraid
to come in because of the arrests, and the INS will use that as an excuse to
deport them.``
By January 10, 2003, citizens of 13 additional countries - Afghanistan,
Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar,
Somalia, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen - must also submit to
registration, a move that could push the detentions into the tens of
thousands, the ACLU said.
=============================================================
3) INS not to extend deadline for Muslims
By Anwar Iqbal
From the International Desk
WASHINGTON, Dec. 16 (UPI) -- The Immigration and Naturalization Service said
Monday that so far it does not plan to extend the registration deadline for
visitors from 17 Muslim countries and North Korea.
Under the National Security Entry Exit Registration System, launched on the
first anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the U.S. government must
maintain photographs and fingerprints of all male visitors from Iraq, Iran,
Libya, Syria and Sudan. Another 13 countries were added to the list in
October.
More than 3,000 men ages 16 and up from the five countries on the first list
need to register by Monday evening. Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria are
also on the U.S. State Department`s list of the countries that sponsor
terrorism.
Another group of more than 7,000 males from 13 other nations are required to
register by Jan. 10. Out of these 13 countries, 12 -- Afghanistan, Algeria,
Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, United
Arab Emirates, and Yemen -- are Muslim. North Korea is the only non-Muslim
country on this list.
A Department of Justice spokesman Jorge Martinez told United Press
International on Monday there`s no plan to extend the deadlines.
``Individuals who approached INS with personal requests on medical and other
grounds, they are being granted waivers, but only on individual basis. No
extension.``
Some Muslim civil rights and advocacy group are urging the INS to extend its
deadline for the registration of non-immigrant visa holders from Muslim
countries.
``The government has done little to spread the word in the Muslim and
Arab-American communities about the requirement to register. Many people may
unwittingly place themselves in the position of being deported merely
because they lack information about the INS order,`` said Jason Erb,
governmental affairs director at the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
Erb expressed concern about reports that a number of those who complied with
the order have been detained based on visa technicalities. He also said some
registrants report being asked inappropriate questions about their mothers
and fathers, credit card information, and even the contents of their
pockets.
``This seems to be another in a series of `dragnet` policies that target law
abiding visitors. These policies are an ineffective and inefficient use of
law enforcement. They create unnecessary fear and apprehension among
visitors to our nation. People are either uninformed or confused about the
orders. We need more time to educate our community about the registration
program,`` Erb said. He added that those who must register should consult an
immigration attorney prior to their interview with the INS.
Martinez also denied reports that INS has added Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and
Armenia to the list of 18 countries whose nationals require registration
while visiting the United States.
``There has been no addition so far to the original list of 18 countries,``
said Martinez.
``We have checked with the INS and so far Pakistan is not on the list of
countries requiring registration,`` said Mohammed Sadiq, deputy chief of
mission at the Pakistan Embassy.
Martinez, however, said that while announcing the list, INS had said that
more countries may later be added through additional notices. ``But I am not
aware when the new notice will appear.``
However, both INS and the Muslim community leaders confirmed that a large
number of male visitors from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have been
individually asked to register at the port of entry. They were also
photographed and fingerprinted.
``Most Pakistani males, aged between 16 and 46, have been ordered to register
while entering the United States,`` said Imran Ali, the counselor officer at
the Pakistan Embassy in Washington.
``There`s no general deadline for them. Each individual was told when to
register,`` said Ali.
Confirming this Martinez said such decisions were by the INS officers at the
port of entry. ``They have the discretionary power to ask visitors from any
country in the world to register,`` said Martinez. ``There`s no discrimination
against any ethnic or religious group,`` he said.
Ali warned visitors to cooperate with the INS officers, saying that the
officer at a port of entry has ``unlimited power`` and ``it is very important
for visitors to understand this. An INS officer can refuse to entertain a
valid visa as well.``
Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are believed to have protested to the State
Department against this practice. ``We have registered our protest at the
highest level,`` says Mohammed Sadiq, Pakistan`s deputy chief of mission in
Washington.
Those signaled our for registration are digitally photographed and
fingerprinted so that investigators can determine whether they fit the
profile of suspected terrorists, as well as aliens with criminal records.
So far, 179 individuals have been detained after registering, but none
turned out to be terrorists, said Martinez.
The INS registration program is the first step in a process that will
include the integration of the system`s database with the FBI`s data on 40
million criminals.
Congress directed that the databases be merged after a notorious 1999 case
wherein the INS deported a wanted serial killer, who later returned and
killed four more people.
INS officials, however, say they have to overcome a number hurdles technical
and political hurdles to fully integrate their system with FBI`s.
The INS system contains two digitally scanned fingerprints of each person,
whereas the FBI`s database stores 10 fingerprints rolled in ink of each
person. That makes it difficult to conduct searches across both databases.
Besides, it takes around two hours to search the FBI`s database, which may
cause huge queues at ports of entry if INS officers also start consulting
FBI records before stamping a visa.
The proposal to integrate INS data base with FBI`s also has alarmed rights
groups who fear that it may lead to race and religion based discrimination
against visitors from certain countries.
Copyright © 2002 United Press International
=============================================================
4) Armenians Don`t Need to Register in US
By CURT ANDERSON
.c The Associated Press
WASHINGTON (AP) - The government dropped Armenians from a list of men
required to register with an anti-terrorism program after Armenian lobbying
groups mounted a furious campaign.
``It was a mistake and we`re glad it was corrected,`` Bryan Ardouny,
executive director of the Armenian Assembly of America, said Thursday.
Government officials denied that political pressure was behind the switch,
saying it was the result of a routine review.
Armenian groups rallied last week after the Federal Register - the official
record of government regulations - stated that males age 16 and up from
Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Armenia would join a list of men from 18 other
countries considered at risk for terrorism.
Such men are required to visit local Immigration and Naturalization Service
offices to be photographed, fingerprinted and show certain documents.
By late Monday, the government reversed course on Armenia, issuing a
statement that only Saudis and Pakistanis would have to register by Feb. 21.
The Armenian Assembly and other groups had contacted the White House,
members of Congress and other government officials urging a change.
The United States is home to about 1.5 million people from Armenia, a
largely Christian country without a terrorist history, and that has a tense
relationship with neighboring Azerbaijan, a predominantly Muslim country.
Armenian officials said they were mystified as to why they were even
considered for the anti-terror list.
A Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the
change was made after a federal interagency group, reviewing terrorist
threat assessments and intelligence, determined that Armenians need not be
included in the registration program. The official denied that political
pressure was the reason.
Publication of the notice Monday - minus Armenia - came on the registration
deadline for men from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Sudan and Syria. These countries
are all considered by the United States to be state sponsors of terrorism.
More than 220 men, most of Iranian origin, were detained in Los Angeles when
they went to register. The large Iranian population in Los Angeles was
outraged, with thousands staging a protest Wednesday against what they
considered unfair arrests of innocent people.
Justice Department officials said the majority of those detained had
overstayed their visas and that, by midday Thursday, all but about 100 had
been released after it became clear they posed no threat. Most will get a
chance to make their case before the INS as to whether they can stay in the
United States.
The overall registration program, officials said, has photographed and
fingerprinted 40,000 people from 135 countries, with another 233 turned away
at the U.S. border.
Men from Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North
Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen
face a registration deadline of Jan. 10.
Those who fail to register can be deported. The program does not affect
permanent residents, men with INS ``green cards,`` or to naturalized
citizens from those countries. Diplomats also are excluded, as well as those
seeking or already granted political asylum in the United States.
Women and children were excluded because their numbers would have made the
program impossible to administer, Justice Department officials say.
On the Net: Justice Department: http://www.usdoj.gov
12/19/02 17:45 EST
----------------------------------------------
``We must mistrust utopias: they usually end in holocausts.``
-Mario Vargas Llosa
Shobak: Alternative Asian Voices
http://www.shobak.org
----------------------------------------------
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Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#38 by baywaqoof on December 22, 2002 9:33am PT
well, mostly of the people whoa re detained by INS have problem with their legal status in
NEW LY REGISTERED bewaqoof !
Dont waste bandwidth with off topic ranting
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 05:14 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#38 by baywaqoof on December 22, 2002 9:33am PT
well, mostly of the people whoa re detained by INS have problem with their legal status in
NEW LY REGISTERED bewaqoof !
Dont waste bandwidth with off topic ranting
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
TERRORISM IS A LEARNT ATTRIBUTE FOR AL KEIDA BUT NON ISLAMIC TERRORISM HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE
jUST AFTER KILING 20 cOPS ANOTHER terror ATTACK IN india FROM indians
Maoists behind Andhra train mishap, says Railway official
*****************************************
New Delhi, Dec 22
A senior Indian railway official on Sunday blamed Maoist rebels for derailing a train in Andhra Pradesh, leaving 20 people dead and 90 injured.
Nine carriages of an express train rolled over and two came off the track completely in Kurnool district early on Saturday.
The train, bound for Bangalore, was moving at around 80-100 kilometres per hour.
South Central Railway general manager S M Singla said an inspection of the tracks showed they had been cut and four or five hacksaws had been recovered nearby.
``A rail has been cut. Who has cut it? Why has he cut it? It is for the police to find out,`` Singla told the Press Trust of India news agency in Hyderabad.
But he added, ``It is all a planned act of a Naxalite group.``
The Naxalites are Marxist rebels active in Andhra Pradesh who have been fighting for three decades to improve social and property rights for the state`s indigenous tribal population and landless farmers, in a conflict that has cost more than 10,000 lives.
Meanwhile President A P J Abdul Kalam Sunday offered his condolences to the bereaved families and wished the injured a speedy recovery. ``Their grief is shared by the people throughout the country,`` a statement said.
UNI
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 01:28 pm
TERRORISM IS A LEARNT ATTRIBUTE FOR AL KEIDA BUT NON ISLAMIC TERRORISM HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE
jUST AFTER KILING 20 cOPS ANOTHER terror ATTACK IN india FROM indians
Maoists behind Andhra train mishap, says Railway official
*****************************************
New Delhi, Dec 22
A senior Indian railway official on Sunday blamed Maoist rebels for derailing a train in Andhra Pradesh, leaving 20 people dead and 90 injured.
Nine carriages of an express train rolled over and two came off the track completely in Kurnool district early on Saturday.
The train, bound for Bangalore, was moving at around 80-100 kilometres per hour.
South Central Railway general manager S M Singla said an inspection of the tracks showed they had been cut and four or five hacksaws had been recovered nearby.
``A rail has been cut. Who has cut it? Why has he cut it? It is for the police to find out,`` Singla told the Press Trust of India news agency in Hyderabad.
But he added, ``It is all a planned act of a Naxalite group.``
The Naxalites are Marxist rebels active in Andhra Pradesh who have been fighting for three decades to improve social and property rights for the state`s indigenous tribal population and landless farmers, in a conflict that has cost more than 10,000 lives.
Meanwhile President A P J Abdul Kalam Sunday offered his condolences to the bereaved families and wished the injured a speedy recovery. ``Their grief is shared by the people throughout the country,`` a statement said.
UNI
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
NRIS
December 23, 2002
Indian students in Massachusetts assaulted
IANS
WASHINGTON: Three Indian students at the University of Massachusetts were assaulted in what police said was a hate crime apparently sparked by anti-Middle East feelings.
The incident took place a few days ago in Lowell, where the university is located. The three students were walking to campus when a van pulled up and two men and a woman began shouting slurs about Osama bin Laden.
At one point, the assailants got out of the van, forced the students to kneel and kicked and beat them. The three, all of whom have been in the US only a few weeks, were not seriously injured, but the attack left them shaken.
To show support for the victims, who were not identified, around 300 students and community leaders met at the university`s Cumnock Hall in Lowell.
Many of those gathered spoke against hate crimes and stereotyping of people from diverse nations. They felt that the university should hold lessons in diversity to familiarise others about students coming from different parts of the world.
``The incident that brings us together is appalling and unfortunate, but not surprising,`` said Ravi Sakhuja, of the Indian American Forum for Political Education, which sponsored the event. ``I have lived here for 35 years and not until September 11 did I ever feel my personal safety was at stake.``
Sakhuja quoted FBI statistics to show how hate crimes have risen 1,600 percent since the 9/11 terrorist attacks, according to a news report. ``Policy-makers in this country need to find a way to keep minorities safe,`` he added.
The three students` complaint led police to arrest John P Cullinan, 17, and he has been charged with felony assault charges, and felony hate crime charges are being pursued, according to Lowell Police Superintendent Edward Davis III.
Because it is a hate crime, Davis said, Attorney General Thomas Reilly`s office is involved in the investigation and the case will be going to a grand jury.
He also said that a female suspect has been identified and is facing similar charges, and police have tentatively identified a second male suspect.
``The suspects all have criminal records and are well-known by the Lowell police to be violent people,`` Davis told the gathering. ``They will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I assure you, this will be pursued aggressively.``
The speakers at the meeting agreed that education and understanding are the only means to fight the kind of ignorance that led to the assault.
``No one is born prejudiced, it is learned and it can be unlearned,`` said attorney Neil Sherring, an Indian American Forum member and former assistant Massachusetts attorney general.
Krishna Vedula, the university`s dean of engineering, suggested that a taskforce be formed to educate the community about hate crimes. He said such a multicultural taskforce could serve as a model for the rest of the country.
One of the barriers to unity at the university is the lack of communication between different ethnic and racial groups, said Bobby Tugbiyele, president of the Association of Students of African Origin at University of Massachusetts.
State Senator Steve Panagiotakos reminded the audience that all US citizens are in effect immigrants and applauded the Indian community`s contributions to this country.
``Three hundred years ago this was a wilderness. Two hundred years ago it was just a band of rebels, but today this country sets the agenda for the world,`` said the Lowell Democrat.
``We all are immigrants who came here for a better life and we must stand up and not let ignorance and hatred ruin the community.``
US Representative Marty Meehan said he is pushing for a vote in Congress on a hate-crime bill that would give local law enforcement technical, forensic and prosecutorial assistance from the Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute hate crimes
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 01:28 pm
IF ARJUN_M,SAXSENA ,MOHAR11,FROZK,TEMPORAL,feel that they wont be singled out b/c they are Indians or WOULD be because they are muslim pakistani HATE is not discriminatory in this ,thats its weakness or flaw.HATE IS TOO GENERALISED RESPONSE WITHOUT FOCUS AND REFERRED TO AS MAD for good reasonNRIS
December 23, 2002
Indian students in Massachusetts assaulted
IANS
WASHINGTON: Three Indian students at the University of Massachusetts were assaulted in what police said was a hate crime apparently sparked by anti-Middle East feelings.
The incident took place a few days ago in Lowell, where the university is located. The three students were walking to campus when a van pulled up and two men and a woman began shouting slurs about Osama bin Laden.
At one point, the assailants got out of the van, forced the students to kneel and kicked and beat them. The three, all of whom have been in the US only a few weeks, were not seriously injured, but the attack left them shaken.
To show support for the victims, who were not identified, around 300 students and community leaders met at the university`s Cumnock Hall in Lowell.
Many of those gathered spoke against hate crimes and stereotyping of people from diverse nations. They felt that the university should hold lessons in diversity to familiarise others about students coming from different parts of the world.
``The incident that brings us together is appalling and unfortunate, but not surprising,`` said Ravi Sakhuja, of the Indian American Forum for Political Education, which sponsored the event. ``I have lived here for 35 years and not until September 11 did I ever feel my personal safety was at stake.``
Sakhuja quoted FBI statistics to show how hate crimes have risen 1,600 percent since the 9/11 terrorist attacks, according to a news report. ``Policy-makers in this country need to find a way to keep minorities safe,`` he added.
The three students` complaint led police to arrest John P Cullinan, 17, and he has been charged with felony assault charges, and felony hate crime charges are being pursued, according to Lowell Police Superintendent Edward Davis III.
Because it is a hate crime, Davis said, Attorney General Thomas Reilly`s office is involved in the investigation and the case will be going to a grand jury.
He also said that a female suspect has been identified and is facing similar charges, and police have tentatively identified a second male suspect.
``The suspects all have criminal records and are well-known by the Lowell police to be violent people,`` Davis told the gathering. ``They will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I assure you, this will be pursued aggressively.``
The speakers at the meeting agreed that education and understanding are the only means to fight the kind of ignorance that led to the assault.
``No one is born prejudiced, it is learned and it can be unlearned,`` said attorney Neil Sherring, an Indian American Forum member and former assistant Massachusetts attorney general.
Krishna Vedula, the university`s dean of engineering, suggested that a taskforce be formed to educate the community about hate crimes. He said such a multicultural taskforce could serve as a model for the rest of the country.
One of the barriers to unity at the university is the lack of communication between different ethnic and racial groups, said Bobby Tugbiyele, president of the Association of Students of African Origin at University of Massachusetts.
State Senator Steve Panagiotakos reminded the audience that all US citizens are in effect immigrants and applauded the Indian community`s contributions to this country.
``Three hundred years ago this was a wilderness. Two hundred years ago it was just a band of rebels, but today this country sets the agenda for the world,`` said the Lowell Democrat.
``We all are immigrants who came here for a better life and we must stand up and not let ignorance and hatred ruin the community.``
US Representative Marty Meehan said he is pushing for a vote in Congress on a hate-crime bill that would give local law enforcement technical, forensic and prosecutorial assistance from the Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute hate crimes
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
#32 by rsaxena on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
re: bhitai
{I wonder if your war criminal from Gujarat shows up at an American airport, would he be fingerprinted? }
..they have not blown up things and themselves in any foreign country, nor have they hijacked international airliners...they are irrelevant to americans...
------------------------------------------
SaxSena
Neither have the millions of people who are INCONVENIENCED by hours of delay at Air port
Just b/c Modi is not punished does not make him any more innocent than inconvenienced American &Pakistanis & all world who are AFFECTED by Ashcrofts way of handling security .Its one thing to be policeman but feindish to use that position of power to perpetuate your biases & prejudices.
Innocent peole are just pointing fingers at real criminals who go scott free & that is not crime to be of the same race nationaity as criminal !
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 09:33 am
#32 by rsaxena on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
re: bhitai
{I wonder if your war criminal from Gujarat shows up at an American airport, would he be fingerprinted? }
..they have not blown up things and themselves in any foreign country, nor have they hijacked international airliners...they are irrelevant to americans...
------------------------------------------
SaxSena
Neither have the millions of people who are INCONVENIENCED by hours of delay at Air port
Just b/c Modi is not punished does not make him any more innocent than inconvenienced American &Pakistanis & all world who are AFFECTED by Ashcrofts way of handling security .Its one thing to be policeman but feindish to use that position of power to perpetuate your biases & prejudices.
Innocent peole are just pointing fingers at real criminals who go scott free & that is not crime to be of the same race nationaity as criminal !
Little Big Men
#25
SSDhillon
+++++++
Only jehadis can call the murder of innocent women a ``political fight``. This coming from a muslim who has access to the internet and probably lives in the west.
------------------------------------------------
SSdhillon
The army & Police have not spared ``suspected``informant if they are women or childrn either .You have difficulty imagining civil war read French Revolution ,Freedom Fight of Algeria Libya Tunisia all most all north African colonised countries .........
NOT that I approve of it
But the militants have killed families on charges of being Army Spy or informant for the Indians In Kashmir.
If they plan to use cover of burqa would they not implement it by force .Again i am offering motivations NOT endorsement but i know you want to score point NOT learn here .
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 09:33 am
#25
SSDhillon
+++++++
Only jehadis can call the murder of innocent women a ``political fight``. This coming from a muslim who has access to the internet and probably lives in the west.
------------------------------------------------
SSdhillon
The army & Police have not spared ``suspected``informant if they are women or childrn either .You have difficulty imagining civil war read French Revolution ,Freedom Fight of Algeria Libya Tunisia all most all north African colonised countries .........
NOT that I approve of it
But the militants have killed families on charges of being Army Spy or informant for the Indians In Kashmir.
If they plan to use cover of burqa would they not implement it by force .Again i am offering motivations NOT endorsement but i know you want to score point NOT learn here .
Imran Khan Needs Money
#28 by UmerMurtaza on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
Back in Bhutto`s days, Edhi once stood up as a candidate but he lost out cos he didn`t, or rather didn`t want to, spend a penny on his elections.
Money makes the world go round.
Umer M.
---------------------------------------------
I am glad he did .
People make the mistake of wanting ``NICE`` people to be there representative.
``nice`` people fail miserably in politics for obvious reasons.Modi ,Hitler Lott Win elections `nice ` ppl serve like Eidhi .
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 09:33 am
#28 by UmerMurtaza on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
Back in Bhutto`s days, Edhi once stood up as a candidate but he lost out cos he didn`t, or rather didn`t want to, spend a penny on his elections.
Money makes the world go round.
Umer M.
---------------------------------------------
I am glad he did .
People make the mistake of wanting ``NICE`` people to be there representative.
``nice`` people fail miserably in politics for obvious reasons.Modi ,Hitler Lott Win elections `nice ` ppl serve like Eidhi .
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#27 by rsaxena on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
re: 12-head
{THE IIMIGRATION CHANGES FOR MUSLIMS DOES NOT DISTINGUISH HINDIANS FROM MUSLIMS.}
...except that indians (muslims and hindus) in america don`t have to show up at the INS office like you do...
-------------------------------------------------
If a Pakistani is being interrrogated more intensely atleast there is reason that the region is /was base of al Keida in Afghanistan which is borderless neighbour.I dont think again it is b/c they are MUSLIMS!
My name is veru exclusively persian /Arabic ,i dont feel like gloating over how beutifull America is but i have never been singled out b/c i nevr had any ``irregularities`` in my documents. Most of INS apprehension is through breech of rules.which normally might have been overlooked.
It is still expecting more of kindness & leniency that was routine that has DECRESED AND NOT ANY LEGALLY SANCTIONED DISCRIMINATION.As i said rule changes in immigration affects acros the board .
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 09:33 am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#27 by rsaxena on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
re: 12-head
{THE IIMIGRATION CHANGES FOR MUSLIMS DOES NOT DISTINGUISH HINDIANS FROM MUSLIMS.}
...except that indians (muslims and hindus) in america don`t have to show up at the INS office like you do...
-------------------------------------------------
If a Pakistani is being interrrogated more intensely atleast there is reason that the region is /was base of al Keida in Afghanistan which is borderless neighbour.I dont think again it is b/c they are MUSLIMS!
My name is veru exclusively persian /Arabic ,i dont feel like gloating over how beutifull America is but i have never been singled out b/c i nevr had any ``irregularities`` in my documents. Most of INS apprehension is through breech of rules.which normally might have been overlooked.
It is still expecting more of kindness & leniency that was routine that has DECRESED AND NOT ANY LEGALLY SANCTIONED DISCRIMINATION.As i said rule changes in immigration affects acros the board .
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#29 by ferozk on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
Re: AAmir # 16
Ferozk
All I can say Al Kaieda is not Islam or even thaught of as religion.If you say choose between Alkeida & U.S.A. you would make sense.
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 09:33 am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#29 by ferozk on December 22, 2002 7:39am PT
Re: AAmir # 16
Ferozk
All I can say Al Kaieda is not Islam or even thaught of as religion.If you say choose between Alkeida & U.S.A. you would make sense.
Little Big Men
#25
SSDhillon
+++++++
Only jehadis can call the murder of innocent women a ``political fight``. This coming from a muslim who has access to the internet and probably lives in the west.
------------------------------------------------
SSdhillon
The army & Police have not spared ``suspected``informant if they are women or childrn either .You have difficulty imagining civil war read French Revolution ,Freedom Fight of Algeria Libya Tunisia all most all north African colonised countries .........
NOT that I approve of it
But the militants have killed families on charges of being Army Spy or informant for the Indians In Kashmir.
If they plan to use cover of burqa would they not implement it by force .Again i am offering motivations NOT endorsement but i know you want to score point NOT learn here .
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 22, 2002 09:33 am
#25
SSDhillon
+++++++
Only jehadis can call the murder of innocent women a ``political fight``. This coming from a muslim who has access to the internet and probably lives in the west.
------------------------------------------------
SSdhillon
The army & Police have not spared ``suspected``informant if they are women or childrn either .You have difficulty imagining civil war read French Revolution ,Freedom Fight of Algeria Libya Tunisia all most all north African colonised countries .........
NOT that I approve of it
But the militants have killed families on charges of being Army Spy or informant for the Indians In Kashmir.
If they plan to use cover of burqa would they not implement it by force .Again i am offering motivations NOT endorsement but i know you want to score point NOT learn here .
Moderate Muslims
#310
``...AND THEY (MUSLIMS) DO NOT HELP HINDU ......``
Moron this muslim died for HINDU .How many Sridhar was there protecting the hostages????????
Death of a commando
**************************
A Gujarati Muslim died defending a Hindu temple against a terrorist attack. It was heartening to read that among those who laid down their lives fighting the terrorists who attacked the Akshardham temple was Al-lahrakha Unadjam of Umej village in Junagadh district, a state commando of the Group III SRPC company of Mandana( Banaskantha ). This news should have been given more prominence than it got in newspapers which have been highlighting the communal divide in the state. There are elements in every community and no one can claim that all its members are patriotic and that members of other communities are all anti-national.
By not recognising any good in a particular community and forcing them to suffer unnecessarily for selfish communal aims is to push them into the company of anti-nationals against their own wish, which can prove disastrous for the country though it may bring a particular party to power in a state or at the centre. Although they are sad at the loss of their son, the people of Umej are celebrating as the brave young Allahrakhan has shown both communities of Gujarat the right direction in serving the nation.
¯ Abdul Hafiz Lakhani, Gandhinagar
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 21, 2002 11:57 pm
#310
``...AND THEY (MUSLIMS) DO NOT HELP HINDU ......``
Moron this muslim died for HINDU .How many Sridhar was there protecting the hostages????????
Death of a commando
**************************
A Gujarati Muslim died defending a Hindu temple against a terrorist attack. It was heartening to read that among those who laid down their lives fighting the terrorists who attacked the Akshardham temple was Al-lahrakha Unadjam of Umej village in Junagadh district, a state commando of the Group III SRPC company of Mandana( Banaskantha ). This news should have been given more prominence than it got in newspapers which have been highlighting the communal divide in the state. There are elements in every community and no one can claim that all its members are patriotic and that members of other communities are all anti-national.
By not recognising any good in a particular community and forcing them to suffer unnecessarily for selfish communal aims is to push them into the company of anti-nationals against their own wish, which can prove disastrous for the country though it may bring a particular party to power in a state or at the centre. Although they are sad at the loss of their son, the people of Umej are celebrating as the brave young Allahrakhan has shown both communities of Gujarat the right direction in serving the nation.
¯ Abdul Hafiz Lakhani, Gandhinagar
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
Those Hindians who relish to point out that all TEERORISTS are Islamic deceive & deny they may but for last 35 years India has been losing the war on terrorism from NON islamic terrorists within India.
From Bold & chtzpah full Verappan to Bodo of N.E. & Maoist & Naxal of eastern India they make fool of Law enforcement as in this episode of decoy murder trap for Police .
18 cops killed in Naxal strike
Ipsit Mohapatra
(Rourkela, December 20)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cadres of the banned Maoist Communist Centre (MCC) killed 18 policemen and injured 15 early on Friday morning. They ambushed a convoy about 20 km from Jharkhand`s border with Orissa.
Reports coming in from Chaibasa, however, put the death toll at 22, and said four constables were missing. Jharkhand Director-General of Police R.R. Prasad confirmed 11 deaths, while Home Secretary Sushma Singh put the toll at 18.
In the last two years, extremist groups have killed over 100 policemen in Jharkhand.
Chief Minister Babulal Marandi will visit the spot on Saturday.
Police authorities were quoted as saying that the convoy was carrying the remains of a village headman who had been beheaded by the MCC on Thursday. The fifteen injured policemen were admitted to the Ispat General Hospital in Rourkela at around 12.30 a.m. Three of them are in intensive care.
``The MCC men threw hand grenades and then opened fire. They outnumbered us and after surrounding us from all sides set our vehicles ablaze,`` one of the injured policemen said. Eleven jeeps were burnt. The militants carried away more than 50 weapons, including .303 rifles and SLRs, and ammunition, some of the injured policemen said.
Rescue operations, hampered by the rough forest terrain, began after Chaibasa SP N.K. Mishra arrived at the spot.
All hospitals in Chaibasa, Noamundi and Kiriburu in Jharkhand, and in the bordering areas of Orissa have been put on alert.
(With inputs from Debasish Sarkar in Jamshedpur and Kumar Uttam in Ranchi)
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 21, 2002 07:10 pm
Those Hindians who relish to point out that all TEERORISTS are Islamic deceive & deny they may but for last 35 years India has been losing the war on terrorism from NON islamic terrorists within India.
From Bold & chtzpah full Verappan to Bodo of N.E. & Maoist & Naxal of eastern India they make fool of Law enforcement as in this episode of decoy murder trap for Police .
18 cops killed in Naxal strike
Ipsit Mohapatra
(Rourkela, December 20)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cadres of the banned Maoist Communist Centre (MCC) killed 18 policemen and injured 15 early on Friday morning. They ambushed a convoy about 20 km from Jharkhand`s border with Orissa.
Reports coming in from Chaibasa, however, put the death toll at 22, and said four constables were missing. Jharkhand Director-General of Police R.R. Prasad confirmed 11 deaths, while Home Secretary Sushma Singh put the toll at 18.
In the last two years, extremist groups have killed over 100 policemen in Jharkhand.
Chief Minister Babulal Marandi will visit the spot on Saturday.
Police authorities were quoted as saying that the convoy was carrying the remains of a village headman who had been beheaded by the MCC on Thursday. The fifteen injured policemen were admitted to the Ispat General Hospital in Rourkela at around 12.30 a.m. Three of them are in intensive care.
``The MCC men threw hand grenades and then opened fire. They outnumbered us and after surrounding us from all sides set our vehicles ablaze,`` one of the injured policemen said. Eleven jeeps were burnt. The militants carried away more than 50 weapons, including .303 rifles and SLRs, and ammunition, some of the injured policemen said.
Rescue operations, hampered by the rough forest terrain, began after Chaibasa SP N.K. Mishra arrived at the spot.
All hospitals in Chaibasa, Noamundi and Kiriburu in Jharkhand, and in the bordering areas of Orissa have been put on alert.
(With inputs from Debasish Sarkar in Jamshedpur and Kumar Uttam in Ranchi)
The Unmaking Of Gujrat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#239 by pennathur on December 21, 2002 7:50am PT
Qusman1,
Au contraire Pakistan prides itself on the treatment of its minorities and many other things (not that the world at large buys it!) India has witnessed horrific communal violence perpetrated by intemperate groups of Muslims ofr most of the 20th century. Ambedkar (who is by no means communal) recounts every major occurence from 1920 to 1940 in his masterful exposition on the question of Pakistan (www.ambedkar.org/pakistan - chapter VII) including the infamous Moplah pogrom of 1922 in Kerala which left 1000s of Hindus dead. As for Gujarat itself does anyone know that over 7000 Hindus are in custody pending trial for their role in the riots vs. 3000 Muslims for a similar reason? Does anyone know that over 200 Hindus were killed in firings and police action used to quell the riots? This tendency to quote at length from the self-same news sources which in turn are based on 2nd and 3rd hand sources leads us nowhere.
-------------------------------------------------
WE RE ARGUING HERE ADMIISTRATION & ITS ROLE
We know that all those riots prior to 47 wer under British Raj
You just waste band width taking about irrlevent 1922
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 21, 2002 04:42 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#239 by pennathur on December 21, 2002 7:50am PT
Qusman1,
Au contraire Pakistan prides itself on the treatment of its minorities and many other things (not that the world at large buys it!) India has witnessed horrific communal violence perpetrated by intemperate groups of Muslims ofr most of the 20th century. Ambedkar (who is by no means communal) recounts every major occurence from 1920 to 1940 in his masterful exposition on the question of Pakistan (www.ambedkar.org/pakistan - chapter VII) including the infamous Moplah pogrom of 1922 in Kerala which left 1000s of Hindus dead. As for Gujarat itself does anyone know that over 7000 Hindus are in custody pending trial for their role in the riots vs. 3000 Muslims for a similar reason? Does anyone know that over 200 Hindus were killed in firings and police action used to quell the riots? This tendency to quote at length from the self-same news sources which in turn are based on 2nd and 3rd hand sources leads us nowhere.
-------------------------------------------------
WE RE ARGUING HERE ADMIISTRATION & ITS ROLE
We know that all those riots prior to 47 wer under British Raj
You just waste band width taking about irrlevent 1922
The Unmaking Of Gujrat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#238 by Ralph on December 21, 2002 7:50am PT
studebaker #223
``........ Calling them Hindians doesnt help Christians. .......``
-------------------------------
Ralphy
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN WORD `` H INDIAN``. A word i use it to denote short form of` HINDU Indan` .....I never mean bad .
Christian like wise are refered as `Xatian ` not DEROGATORY ??
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 21, 2002 04:22 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#238 by Ralph on December 21, 2002 7:50am PT
studebaker #223
``........ Calling them Hindians doesnt help Christians. .......``
-------------------------------
Ralphy
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN WORD `` H INDIAN``. A word i use it to denote short form of` HINDU Indan` .....I never mean bad .
Christian like wise are refered as `Xatian ` not DEROGATORY ??
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
On the flip side - some food for thought from this article.
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
When will we ever learn?
2.``....Muslim institutions and groups will freely use (and abuse) all the freedoms allowed to them in the West, but hate and despise the liberal civilization that has produced these very liberties. Listen to a Muslim intellectual, mulla or politician and you will hear a litany of complaints and criticism against western sins of omission and commission, past and present. Ask him where he wants to send his children to university, and if he is honest, he will reel off the names of the top American universities. ....``
I DONT SEE NO CONFLICT IN CRTICIZING THE AMERICAN GOVT POLICIES WHICH ARE OPENLY & ADMITTEDLY SECTERIAN REPRESENTING A NARROW GROUP AND NOT THE WHOLE AMERICAN AS A NATION OF PEOPLE.
All over the world Americanpeople like Wrights Bros, & Henry Ford are admired for there ingenuity &people from enemy country love to visit America to learn new things.
Besides University & institutions in this country are mostly Private & not State run to propogate official line of govt.
AnD ITS NOT THAT ISLAMIC COUNTRIES ARE CRTICAL ,ANY SOUTH AMERICAN,African & NONMUSLIM ASIAN COUNTRIES TOO........
If you hear writers & ambassadors of venezuella Argentina they sound just like Iran or Malaysia .
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 21, 2002 03:37 pm
12 by mohar11 on December 21, 2002 8:47am PTOn the flip side - some food for thought from this article.
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
When will we ever learn?
2.``....Muslim institutions and groups will freely use (and abuse) all the freedoms allowed to them in the West, but hate and despise the liberal civilization that has produced these very liberties. Listen to a Muslim intellectual, mulla or politician and you will hear a litany of complaints and criticism against western sins of omission and commission, past and present. Ask him where he wants to send his children to university, and if he is honest, he will reel off the names of the top American universities. ....``
I DONT SEE NO CONFLICT IN CRTICIZING THE AMERICAN GOVT POLICIES WHICH ARE OPENLY & ADMITTEDLY SECTERIAN REPRESENTING A NARROW GROUP AND NOT THE WHOLE AMERICAN AS A NATION OF PEOPLE.
All over the world Americanpeople like Wrights Bros, & Henry Ford are admired for there ingenuity &people from enemy country love to visit America to learn new things.
Besides University & institutions in this country are mostly Private & not State run to propogate official line of govt.
AnD ITS NOT THAT ISLAMIC COUNTRIES ARE CRTICAL ,ANY SOUTH AMERICAN,African & NONMUSLIM ASIAN COUNTRIES TOO........
If you hear writers & ambassadors of venezuella Argentina they sound just like Iran or Malaysia .
Musings Of A Suspected Terrorist
#15 by arjun_m on December 21, 2002 1:40pm PT
Mommy..why dont they love us anymore..we may cheer murdering jihadis but we are still lovable cute cuddly pakis...
http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id={35C86E9B-93AB-44C9-8F36-E1CE2989EDE5}
Canadian attitudes on immigration hardening against Muslims: poll
44 % support putting limit on immigration
---------------------------------------------------------
UNFORTUNATELY ARJUN_M YOU BEING ``MIRROR MIRROR WHO IS THE HANDSOMMEST OF ALL ...`` THE IIMIGRATION CHANGES FOR MUSLIMS DOES NOT DISTINGUISH HINDIANS FROM MUSLIMS.
,
I am a 28 year old professional working in India. I have been considering emigration from
India for a while now.
For over a year, I had been focussing on Canada. I didnt do anything about it earlier, except
attend seminars since I was waiting to be economically able to sponsor my own emigration.
Now that I am ready, I suddenly find myself ineligible for Canada thanks to the new
immigration laws. No relatives there, and the fact that I am single dosent help with the
points either etc, etc. I`ve got my case assessed through several reputed immigation
consultancies in India.
I am however eligible for Australia. Guess I cannot wait for too long to make up my mind
again, since here too, the laws will only get more stringent.
Posted by
AAmir
Dec 21, 2002 03:37 pm
#15 by arjun_m on December 21, 2002 1:40pm PT
Mommy..why dont they love us anymore..we may cheer murdering jihadis but we are still lovable cute cuddly pakis...
http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id={35C86E9B-93AB-44C9-8F36-E1CE2989EDE5}
Canadian attitudes on immigration hardening against Muslims: poll
44 % support putting limit on immigration
---------------------------------------------------------
UNFORTUNATELY ARJUN_M YOU BEING ``MIRROR MIRROR WHO IS THE HANDSOMMEST OF ALL ...`` THE IIMIGRATION CHANGES FOR MUSLIMS DOES NOT DISTINGUISH HINDIANS FROM MUSLIMS.
,
I am a 28 year old professional working in India. I have been considering emigration from
India for a while now.
For over a year, I had been focussing on Canada. I didnt do anything about it earlier, except
attend seminars since I was waiting to be economically able to sponsor my own emigration.
Now that I am ready, I suddenly find myself ineligible for Canada thanks to the new
immigration laws. No relatives there, and the fact that I am single dosent help with the
points either etc, etc. I`ve got my case assessed through several reputed immigation
consultancies in India.
I am however eligible for Australia. Guess I cannot wait for too long to make up my mind
again, since here too, the laws will only get more stringent.
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