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Canada’s First Muslim Woman Member of Parliament: Why did the Media Miss the Story?
I miss Toronto. Aye
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 31, 2004 11:12 am
I myself had an 8 month assignment in Toronto. What a lovely city and great people. I just loved the huge underground complex downtown - I could walt from my hotel to work without putting on a heavy coat in the winter. There is so much to do and the environment is very friendly. All the desis I met there were just as good as the Canadians. I miss Toronto. Aye
The Company Bahadar
You are right about the ancient world and lineage being considered from a paternal perspective. You are also right about Mughals and Turks not marrying in the opposite direction - Muslim wives for Hindus. Although there are several instances of Turkish nobles providing Muslim women for their loyal Hindu officers. And don`t forget that once Hindus converted to Islam, there was no legal or religious barrier to marrying Muslim women (including Turks and Mughals!).
While the Timuri Sultante-e-Hindustan was not a joint venture, the Mughals, after the Sher Shah Suri debacle, relied more and more upon the Rajputs for security and loyalty. In addition to the famous Man Singh at the time of Akbar, the CinC for Aurangzeb was also a Rajput. This was often done on purpose, to instill loyalty among the Rajputs because they were a large percentage of the Imperial forces. Also, several Mughal princes would run off to their Rajput cousins for protection during the frequent fratricidal skirmishes at Agra and Delhi. One example is Prince Khurram (Shah Jahan) running off to Rajputana when palace politics by Nur Jehan were placing his life in danger. Don`t forget that Bahadur Shah II was Brahmin from his mother, did not eat beef, and marked his head with the Hindu symbol. While not an equal partnership, the Mughal period was certainly one of mild cooperation - more than what can be said about the present situation!
Thanks for your responses and interesting exchange. --:)
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 31, 2004 09:17 am
Dionysus #157 and #158,You are right about the ancient world and lineage being considered from a paternal perspective. You are also right about Mughals and Turks not marrying in the opposite direction - Muslim wives for Hindus. Although there are several instances of Turkish nobles providing Muslim women for their loyal Hindu officers. And don`t forget that once Hindus converted to Islam, there was no legal or religious barrier to marrying Muslim women (including Turks and Mughals!).
While the Timuri Sultante-e-Hindustan was not a joint venture, the Mughals, after the Sher Shah Suri debacle, relied more and more upon the Rajputs for security and loyalty. In addition to the famous Man Singh at the time of Akbar, the CinC for Aurangzeb was also a Rajput. This was often done on purpose, to instill loyalty among the Rajputs because they were a large percentage of the Imperial forces. Also, several Mughal princes would run off to their Rajput cousins for protection during the frequent fratricidal skirmishes at Agra and Delhi. One example is Prince Khurram (Shah Jahan) running off to Rajputana when palace politics by Nur Jehan were placing his life in danger. Don`t forget that Bahadur Shah II was Brahmin from his mother, did not eat beef, and marked his head with the Hindu symbol. While not an equal partnership, the Mughal period was certainly one of mild cooperation - more than what can be said about the present situation!
Thanks for your responses and interesting exchange. --:)
The Company Bahadar
Thanks for your response. Yes, Vienna is beautiful and has a lot of history preserved. I too visited Turkey and really enjoyed the visit. If you tell them you are Pak, they really appreciate you - everyone knows Jeeve Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan there.
I am an Engineer but history is my passion.
Thanks for your research.
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 30, 2004 05:21 pm
aslam,Thanks for your response. Yes, Vienna is beautiful and has a lot of history preserved. I too visited Turkey and really enjoyed the visit. If you tell them you are Pak, they really appreciate you - everyone knows Jeeve Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan there.
I am an Engineer but history is my passion.
Thanks for your research.
Dev - The Anatomy of A Communal Carnage
Thanks for nullification UN conspiracy 2nd class Godhra station EU oil monopoly Tripartite Cambodia Iqbal Peru Lake Okeechoobee crocodile Hindu mobs verification retalitation complex testimoney by Tandon but Raveena acting Gujjurat near Norway extremely exposed.
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 30, 2004 05:21 pm
MBZI,Thanks for nullification UN conspiracy 2nd class Godhra station EU oil monopoly Tripartite Cambodia Iqbal Peru Lake Okeechoobee crocodile Hindu mobs verification retalitation complex testimoney by Tandon but Raveena acting Gujjurat near Norway extremely exposed.
Canada’s First Muslim Woman Member of Parliament: Why did the Media Miss the Story?
Down with all fundos!
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 30, 2004 05:21 pm
Very happy to learn about Yasmin Ratansi. She is a source of encouragement to all people from the subcontinent and Africa. The failure of ``Muslim`` organizations to publicize this is obviously NOT an oversight. Oganizations such as ISNA, ICNA, MSA, etc are all funded by Saudi interests and stories such as Yasmin Ratansi`s are not what the right-wing Wahabi Saudi Islamic fundos want to hear.Down with all fundos!
The Company Bahadar
Thank you for some interesting facts about Babar, Turks, and Mongols. I would differ in your treatment of the Rajput association with Mongols. Taking mistresses/concubines is indeed an imposition of superiority. However, Maharani Jodha Bai was THE WIFE, the consort, Malika-e-Hindustan, and mother of Shahzada Salim (Jahangir) the heir to the Mughal Throne. This was no insult, rather an admission of alliance and dependence - why was Raja Man Singh the CinC of the entire Mughal army? The Rajput content certainly was more than 10% of the total imperial army! After the debacle that Humayun suffered at the hands of the Pathans led by Sher Shah Suri, the Mughals, out of desperation and need, relied more and more on their Rajput allies for support. By the time of Shah Jehan, Mughal princes would be escaping to Udaipur and other Rajput strongholds to escape the frequent Pathan rebellions and fratricidal skirmishes. Jahangir married another Rajput princess resulting in Shah Jahan being 3/4 Rajput! Jahangir also married Nur Jahan - does that mean that Mughals were showing off their superiority over Persians? The Turko-Mongol nobility was itself very heavily Rajput by the time of Akbar - I should know I am a product of this alliance!
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 30, 2004 10:42 am
Dionysus,Thank you for some interesting facts about Babar, Turks, and Mongols. I would differ in your treatment of the Rajput association with Mongols. Taking mistresses/concubines is indeed an imposition of superiority. However, Maharani Jodha Bai was THE WIFE, the consort, Malika-e-Hindustan, and mother of Shahzada Salim (Jahangir) the heir to the Mughal Throne. This was no insult, rather an admission of alliance and dependence - why was Raja Man Singh the CinC of the entire Mughal army? The Rajput content certainly was more than 10% of the total imperial army! After the debacle that Humayun suffered at the hands of the Pathans led by Sher Shah Suri, the Mughals, out of desperation and need, relied more and more on their Rajput allies for support. By the time of Shah Jehan, Mughal princes would be escaping to Udaipur and other Rajput strongholds to escape the frequent Pathan rebellions and fratricidal skirmishes. Jahangir married another Rajput princess resulting in Shah Jahan being 3/4 Rajput! Jahangir also married Nur Jahan - does that mean that Mughals were showing off their superiority over Persians? The Turko-Mongol nobility was itself very heavily Rajput by the time of Akbar - I should know I am a product of this alliance!
The Company Bahadar
Even in today`s Pak army, the Rajput and Jat percentage must be very high. Would you like to guess what that number is?
Also, I think that you are definitely mistaken about the reason for Mughals marrying Rajput princesses. Raping your adversary`s women in considered an outrage. Marrying your adversary`s sisters and daughters is a gesture of peace, respect, and alliance. The Arabs were practising this all the time.
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 30, 2004 10:42 am
Dionysus,Even in today`s Pak army, the Rajput and Jat percentage must be very high. Would you like to guess what that number is?
Also, I think that you are definitely mistaken about the reason for Mughals marrying Rajput princesses. Raping your adversary`s women in considered an outrage. Marrying your adversary`s sisters and daughters is a gesture of peace, respect, and alliance. The Arabs were practising this all the time.
The Company Bahadar
Thank you very much for that clear and detailed explanation about Persian language`s dominance. I was surprised to learn that the early Mongols adopted Persian - I knew about the Ottomans. Also surprising was the emigration of Germans and Austrians due to fears of Ottoman invasion. I have been to Vienna and, in St. Stephan`s Cathedral, almost felt the effect of the siege of Vienna in 1689. History is fascinating. I appreciate your help - I learned several new facts.
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm
Aslam,Thank you very much for that clear and detailed explanation about Persian language`s dominance. I was surprised to learn that the early Mongols adopted Persian - I knew about the Ottomans. Also surprising was the emigration of Germans and Austrians due to fears of Ottoman invasion. I have been to Vienna and, in St. Stephan`s Cathedral, almost felt the effect of the siege of Vienna in 1689. History is fascinating. I appreciate your help - I learned several new facts.
An Open Letter to Jemima Khan
MBZI fan club exoneration greatest idea in unidimensional cosmos considering oil monopoly Buddhist fascism sparked by Godhra train Saudi royals burning Bush reelection campaign in Bihar Bengal UAE Slovakia Argentina Iran nuclear arsenal lack of ambulance service Gymkhana shrimp cocktail reading Satanic Verses kuffars in houri costumes.
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm
soundmeister,MBZI fan club exoneration greatest idea in unidimensional cosmos considering oil monopoly Buddhist fascism sparked by Godhra train Saudi royals burning Bush reelection campaign in Bihar Bengal UAE Slovakia Argentina Iran nuclear arsenal lack of ambulance service Gymkhana shrimp cocktail reading Satanic Verses kuffars in houri costumes.
Dev - The Anatomy of A Communal Carnage
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm
Imam Bukhari (or whatever his holiness calls himself these days!) of Delhi Jama Masjid actively campaigned for BJP in last election. I don`t know if it had the power of a fatwa but obviously not many people listened to him or his fat fatwa.
The Company Bahadar
Can you confirm that Bahadur Shah II (Zafar) had a Brahmin mother, that he did not eat beef, and that he regularly placed the Hindu symbol on his forehead? Also, is it true that Zafar was around 7 ft tall?
Thanks,
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm
Aslam,Can you confirm that Bahadur Shah II (Zafar) had a Brahmin mother, that he did not eat beef, and that he regularly placed the Hindu symbol on his forehead? Also, is it true that Zafar was around 7 ft tall?
Thanks,
The Company Bahadar
You are right about the Mongols being defeated by Sultan Beybars of the Mamelukes in 1261. However, I am not too sure about Persian dominating as a language from Siberia to India and Austria to China. Are you referring to the Mongol empire, the Golden Horde, or the Ottoman Empire? I think you meant the Mongol empire - but I don`t believe they used Persian as their language, at least in the 13th century. Maybe they did so later on in the 14 th century after accepting Islam.
Please clarify.
Thanks,
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 29, 2004 01:02 pm
aslam,You are right about the Mongols being defeated by Sultan Beybars of the Mamelukes in 1261. However, I am not too sure about Persian dominating as a language from Siberia to India and Austria to China. Are you referring to the Mongol empire, the Golden Horde, or the Ottoman Empire? I think you meant the Mongol empire - but I don`t believe they used Persian as their language, at least in the 13th century. Maybe they did so later on in the 14 th century after accepting Islam.
Please clarify.
Thanks,
Dear Sisters, Meet Maria Sharapova
I have been gone elsewhere and missed out on a thoroughly mind-boggling exchange on this board.
The reason we are required to ``keep our eyes`` low is to admire the beautiful feet of the better half of mankind. It is a foot thing you know.
I agree with the Maulana about the ``evil-inducing contours of the female body.`` I don`t know how evil, but the Maulana is certainly not blind.
That is my30 paisas worth.
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 28, 2004 09:45 pm
dharma,I have been gone elsewhere and missed out on a thoroughly mind-boggling exchange on this board.
The reason we are required to ``keep our eyes`` low is to admire the beautiful feet of the better half of mankind. It is a foot thing you know.
I agree with the Maulana about the ``evil-inducing contours of the female body.`` I don`t know how evil, but the Maulana is certainly not blind.
That is my30 paisas worth.
The Company Bahadar
Leave the Rajput women alone! They were all my great great great great ... grandmothers. If they wanted to go out with some Mongols, that was their business. At least these guys didn`t wear any earings! According to Chowk rules, you can R&P, but not K&B as in Gujjurat!
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 28, 2004 09:45 pm
Hey stuka,Leave the Rajput women alone! They were all my great great great great ... grandmothers. If they wanted to go out with some Mongols, that was their business. At least these guys didn`t wear any earings! According to Chowk rules, you can R&P, but not K&B as in Gujjurat!
The Company Bahadar
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 28, 2004 03:25 pm
If Taimur (Tamerlane) was a Chaghtai, then it is settled. Babar was all Mongol. Chaghtais were definitely Mongol. These were their branches - Kipchak, Chaghtai, etc.. No wonder historians insisted on calling them Mughals instead of Turks.
Dev - The Anatomy of A Communal Carnage
Very long and long-winded justification for the killing of innocent Muslims - men, women, and children. So many Muslims were bad in the past, so it is natural to kill the innocent and helpless Muslims now. Killing Muslims in Ahmedabad will teach them not to misbehave in Godhra. They deserved to die in Ahmedabad because of what jehadis are doing in J&K, Arabia, Iraq, Netherlands, and yes the scarf-ban in France. Because there were riots against Parsis long ago, it is normal for BPJ and allies to have riots in Gujurat - after all they didn`t invent pogroms, so they can practice it.
Rubbish!
Posted by
deadrajput
Jul 28, 2004 01:25 pm
ankit,Very long and long-winded justification for the killing of innocent Muslims - men, women, and children. So many Muslims were bad in the past, so it is natural to kill the innocent and helpless Muslims now. Killing Muslims in Ahmedabad will teach them not to misbehave in Godhra. They deserved to die in Ahmedabad because of what jehadis are doing in J&K, Arabia, Iraq, Netherlands, and yes the scarf-ban in France. Because there were riots against Parsis long ago, it is normal for BPJ and allies to have riots in Gujurat - after all they didn`t invent pogroms, so they can practice it.
Rubbish!
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