Prisoner of Conscience or Conscious Prisoner?

This does belong here. It was the post number 10 below and was deleted only on this board, while all other boards continue to carry it.
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Removing this mirror again would not only augment the ugliness but would also result in a crisis of creeping conscience.

``Yeh bijli raakh kr jaaegi, teray pyaar ki dunyaa
Naa phirr too jee sakay gaa, aur naa tujhh ko maut aaegi``--mubarak begum

Now let the fun begin.

Re: # 56
Okay to hit 350+ let`s start with discussing a nice chateaubriand medium rare, followed by glass of red and then Khamkwa will provide dessert.

#55 yeah...we tried to discuss ferzana but looks like that topic is also a passe.

Re: # 54
Vesuviusji
Not enough meat to fight over. V.P. Singh has been passe for a long time. Will you resurrect him?

... the silence on this article from 1st june 2006 clearly proves the chowkies shallow character. they used to fight amongst themselves to interact on FV articles and a minimum of 300 interacts on an average was par for course...yet #53 seems to be set in stone as of june 1, 2006 at 6:27 pm PT...the day the editor bade her goodbye...not even known side-kicks have bothered to resurrect this article...reminds me of pompeii... a sad reflection on FP interactors...

ps to #51,
I will admit to one thing.......a lot of self-proclaimed Muslim leaders and Mullah Yadavs, Congressi type ``secular`` leaders exploit the muslim masses and bring more infamy and suffering to the Muslims

re#51,
Hasan sahib,
Although you have tried to .... ....I am afraid you haven`t understood me/us.....I wish things are that simple....as you describe...

{{you should try to cultivate consciously the serenity and understanding of an 80% majority }}}



You should give credit to ``the 18% minority`` for this lack of ``serenity and understanding`` amongst Hindus.........either you haven`t read my posts #46 and #47 and my previous posts or you are unable (unwilling? hopefully not) to understand the gravity of Hindu grievances.


There is a (valid) perception amongst Hindus that despite so much of their good will ...after 60 years..muslims are muslims first and.........Indians may be a distant next.......They came out in massive numbers to protest Bush visit.......I wish 1% of that crowd turned out to protest when some Pakis hijacked Indian Airlines flight and stabbed a newly wed bride-groom. And what did GWB do to India or Indian Muslims? If anything he
used to be full of praise of Indian Muslims...he went back fully chastised.


{{{{{{{You like me love to criticize the Muslims -- now that doesn`t make you a Hindu communalist because you also criticize the Hindus – even though not as much...}}}}}}}

You have raised the same issue several times. Myself, swarrier, and others have addressed this repeatedly, but unfortunately you raise this again.

Casteism and other societal evils are within the community.. we are talking about Hindu vs Muslims issues........ Gujarat riots, Babri Masjid demolition, (attempted) text book revisions..what else do you have?

Despite enormous provocations from Pakistan, BD and internally from intimidatory, identity politics overwhelming majority of Hindus remained secular..........what do we get in return?

PAK-
Relentless jehadi terrorism...eternal hostility..... from Pakistan.........look at this board ..except for you and Salim Bhai I haven`t seen any Paki saying a word of praise for India.....the most disgusting is the attitude that India and Pak are same or India is worse.
If you had 14% Hindu population and if you had a Hindu President (for propaganda sake)..we`ll be interested in Paki opinion on Gujarat riots.

BD-
Ethnic cleansing, ongoing Hindu genocide......we will rather be beggars than let gas pipe line go thru BD to India..we won`t give transit facilities to ``Hindu`` India

IM-
India should vote on an international (IRAN) issue not based on its national security concerns, its own benefits, but based on communal Islamist feelings....and this ``friend`` of India had offered its entire Airforce to Pakistan during the 1971 war..........

Bharath miaN -- you are a good man -- you should try to cultivate consciously the serenity and understanding of an 80% majority -- not the anxiety and insecurity of an 18% minority....

to answer your question --``My contention is FV has different thresholds and different sets of rules for muslims and Hindus `` -- your contention may be more apparent than real -- because FV is a member of a minority...

.....FV is not a communalist Muslims just the same way you are not a communalist Hindu.

You like me love to criticize the Muslims -- now that doesn`t make you a Hindu communalist because you also criticize the Hindus – even though not as much....:)

Re#49
My contention is FV has different thresholds and different sets of rules for muslims and Hindus ....Her condemnation of public display of religiosity of all religions does not absolve her.other.........anyways ......we are not making much progress on the FV front............


About philosophy...the vedantic philosophy is very simple........explore yourself and seek truth for yourself.........you don`t have to believe in any set of rules........how much freer can you get than this? You don`t like this philosophy also?

I have seen your post mocking at Hindu worship of stones, rivers, etc. Hindu belief is pantheism ....I am sure you know this .........

A person can be good or bad irrespective of what religion he is born into. I am not saying all monotheistic persons are evil......but an illiterate good human being who does no harm to another human being (even if he worships stones and rivers or a million idols) is better than the monotheistic Mohamed Atta who flew into WTC and.......................... Zeena here who posts every other day that there is no religious discrimination whatsoever in her Islamic Republic.

#47 actually its only the rituals in religions is what i like, pujas, urs, . the philosophy is what i find suspect. so processions of all kinds are fun, if we allow commies rasta-roko, a colorful ganesh-festival once a year is just great. if FV were in NYC, she would likely complain about nuisance due to Macys parade and FBI harassment of mosque-attendies. i guess this relates in some strange way to VP singh..

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Re: # 45
Jang,
I know you are a neutral man on this issue.

You (probably) and me don`t care for Ganesh Chathurthi processions....I practice no damn rituals whatsoever.........but some Hindus do......and .only in India a minority displays so much aggression and intimidation........


for example I am sure you are familiar with Muslims against processions with beating drums in front of Mosques.....apparently muslims in Singapore have no such problems........

Shall we collect tax from all Indians and pay Haj subsidies type of allowances to poor Hindus in Kerala to perform Amarnath Yatra or pay for train fare to Varanasi???
shall we pay Christians in Christians in Kerala to visit Holy Land?..............
If any one proposes this in India he will be instantly labeled a communalist and Muslim hater.

You do all these............and a lot of more ....................and STILL NOT ENOUGH........NOT ENOUGH............on top of this ..........OF ALL PEOPLE PAKIS WILL TALK ABOUT GUJARAT RIOTS AT THE UN!!

All I want you to do is to look at objectively the sources of Hindu resentment.....if more Indians including muslims address these issues Modi will have to pack his bags and leave.....Prof Bandookwala`s recent piece on Indian muslims addressed some of these issues......except he played the typical victim role and whined quite a bit.

Re: # 44

{{{{{{a memeber of an 80% MINORITY speaking to a member of an 18% MAJORITY}}}}}


Nasah sahib,
Thanks...I couldn`t have said it better.......that`s EXACTLY how a large number of Hindus feel ......and THAT is what sustains R wing politics in India........


I am against identity politics (religious, caste) of all types........unfortunately in India secularism SELECTIVELY means Hindu bashing, encouraging and appeasing muslim intimidation.

To give you an example a south Indian leader said the word ``Hindu`` means thief. He is a celebrated ``secular`` leader (adored by Muslims of course).

And I give credit where it is due.......for example I have seen more tolerance/ sympathy in your posts than that of Zeena.

Regards,

#42 bharat, i dont see any collective pride in islamism from her. she claims to fight for her ``community``, ergo, has sympathy for the causes the community seems to support. she often times has said that she holds no brief for islam pe se. she is just not comfortable (or fearful) with hindu (and sometimes indian) pride, ganesh puja and such displays of collective hinduism. if indians think a bombay musical on bradway is cool, she will find it derogatory.

she had however tried to get a variety of writers..surely more left than others but that may be because right writers are less available.

``But you are a hypocrite and a pretender.....
.................you are a muslim communalist who fools around as a secularist.....

.............who believes Hindus don`t have any collective identity or should not have any collective identity.

..... who believes Hindus of the subcontinent have no grievances or more importantly should not have any grievances........

Such hypocrisy has lots of market potential in India... you will do well...in this I have to agree with your flatterers.``(barath)


a memeber of an 80% MINORITY speaking to a member of an 18% MAJORITY.......:)

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