Cannibalising Your Own

Re: # 45

infact i have already answered your question when i referred to the constructions of media.
Are you sure that there was no struggle for freedom before 1989? Or, you are just saying what the Indian media has portrayed.For what i know from the Pakistani media is quite different a story.Therefore, it`s better to think independently of the media.

Regards.

#44 by zainabsiddique

Infact both the countries and their people are equally responsible for the plight of the Kashmiris.

India is responsible only in so much as fighting terrorists indoctrinated, trained, and armed by Pakistan. If fighting terrorism is oppression in Paki books, so be it.

Let us try to have a complete picture of the truth without letting ourselves be swayed by the media and escaping from being a prey to the realities constructed by the media of both the countries as they are also responsible for this ``miserable`` condition of the Kashmiris.

Oh please, gimme a break! Anyone challenging the carefully constructed myths that Pakistan has built around the Kashmir ``freedom struggle`` is ``swayed by the media``? I want an answer to only one question that I asked: ``if indeed India has been oppressing Kashmiris, please let us know why there was no freedom struggle and violence before 1989 when Pakistan started training and arming Kashmiris?``

@ harish_hyd

I had just stated the facts.Infact both the countries and their people are equally responsible for the plight of the Kashmiris.Let us try to have a complete picture of the truth without letting ourselves be swayed by the media and escaping from being a prey to the realities constructed by the media of both the countries as they are also responsible for this ``miserable`` condition of the Kashmiris.

Peace.

#42 by zainabsiddique

Well, thankyou for not wishing evil things for me and my family but the ``sarcasm`` made me ``introspect`` and i just realised that this is what we, both Pakistanis and the Indians , i repeat , Pakistanis and the Indians have done to the Kashmiris and thus have led to the birth of the jihadis. People, especially the armies of both the countries, in order to fulfil the lust of their governments to expand their territories, have ``robbed`` them of ``their life savings``, have occupied their land and have molested their people.And when they react to our actions, we blame them and call them ``jihadis``, ``terrorists`` and barbarians.

That was quite disingenuous of you to bracket Indians and Pakis together as the cause for Kashmiris` sufferings, when it is an open secret that Kashmir was peaceful till 1989 when Pakistan stoked the fires of insurgency in the state. By injecting Kashmiri separatists with the venom of Islamic fundamentalism, you guys destroyed the famed Sufi traditions of Kashmiris. Hindu Pandits, Shias, and Sunnis lived together and there were never any communal trouble among Kashmiris, but all that changed in 1989. So please do not try to equate yourself with Indians. Kashmiri Muslims outside Kashmir can live and prosper like the rest of Indians, but you have made life for them inside Kashmir miserable.

@ kedarnathji

Well, thankyou for not wishing evil things for me and my family but the ``sarcasm`` made me ``introspect`` and i just realised that this is what we, both Pakistanis and the Indians , i repeat , Pakistanis and the Indians have done to the Kashmiris and thus have led to the birth of the jihadis. People, especially the armies of both the countries, in order to fulfil the lust of their governments to expand their territories, have ``robbed`` them of ``their life savings``, have occupied their land and have molested their people.And when they react to our actions, we blame them and call them ``jihadis``, ``terrorists`` and barbarians.The cause behind disruption of peace in this part is us (Pakistanis and Indians) and not them. Likewise, the taliban are the product of the Americans. I fully understand that the Muslims have been causing hurt but i believe firmly that they have been hurt as a result of which thay are retaliating and the actions of the jihadis and the Talibans show that these are out of sheer helplessness as their opponents (Pakistan,India and America) are quite powerful as compared to the poor jihadis and the talibans.I have a firm faith in the inherent goodness of human beings as no one is born with a weapon in their hands.The only solution to world peace lies in pondering over the causes and in eliminating them.

@ vivek

No doubt the throwing of acids is not an act to be commended and no one denies its brutality.But in the context of what i have said above , the talibans and the jihadis are not ``barbaric`` and if they are, Pakistanis, Indians and the Americans are ``barbarics`` of a far advanced level.I will strongly condemn the ``total annihilation`` of the taliban and the jihadis as this is what has been tried much but has failed to be fruitful.The solution lies in understanding , analysing, talking or trying to talk and re-educating (not in terms of degrees but in terms of changing the behaviour and thoughts) both ourselves and the entire human race.And of course it will take much time but will definitely bring peace to this place of our abode through making persevere efforts.


@ arjun_m

Primarily, the talibans are not ``talipakis`` and if they are because they were helped by Pakistan in their war against the Russians, then another term should be coined because they had received the prime help from America.Second thing is that the case of the Hazbollah and the Israel is not the same as that of talibans and the jihadis.The jihadis are the product, i repeat, Pakistani and the Indian aggression while the taliban are the product of Pakistan and America.The jihadis have been made foreigners in their own land. They are making efforts within their area to fight the Pakistanis and the Indians and at times, bring their war in the boundaries of the two countries through meagre and petty means (explosion of bombs).The taliban were also attacked by America when America violated the sovereignty of Afghanistan.Similarly, Israel is attacking Lebanon by violating its sovereignty.The same step was taken by America against Iraq.We can look at it in another way. Pakistan is having many internal problems for instance at Wana , Sui and also between the sunnis and the shias and also political problems , but will the Pakistanis ever allow or like any aother country to interfere in its personal matters ?Similarly, India has many internal problems like the conflict between various castes and the social classes, but will the Indians ever allow or like foreign interference? In both the cases, people around the world might be allowed to talk and that would be acceptable but the use of force is neither legitimate nor liked.


@ okhla99

Yes, the idea appears to be non-sensical but thinking about it , on erealises that it is th eonly possible solution to the problem of peace on the earth.We must be careful as it is a very sensitive issue and we love to talk about them but we do not think about them as humans and i am sure that they also might not be thinking of us as humans. The problems are all because of misunderstanding each other.Let us all try to undertsand them as well as ourselves.And of course, the action is heinous but we must ponder over who made them barbarians and such violent beings.

Peace.

all, thank you for your kind comments, much appreciated!

cheers

BD

#39 arjun {``It`s not like non-muslims gathering in smoke filled rooms planning the deaths of muslim children.. ``}

Arjun,
Maybe some of the neo-cons don`t smoke anymore, but they certainly did plan the deaths of muslim children in some rooms somewhere in Washington.

Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Krystol, Pearle, and others were planning this aggression in Eye Rack, Syria, Eye Ran, and Lebanon for a long long time. Where have you been? Have you ever heard of Jim Lobe? You should research this sinister group rather than look for the obvious holes in Mushy`s backside.

Salim: If you want to draw some sort of equivalence between the Islamofascist jihadis and the Indian security forces fighting them, fine..I, for one, don`t buy that..

I think the jihadi scum should be wiped out, be they in Kashmir or Thailand

As much as I`m against US aid to ISrael, I fully support ISraeli actions in Lebanon...The hezbollah is responsible for every death in this conflict..period..end of story..

It`s muslims who instinctively come down on the side of muslims in any conflict with non-muslims...It`s not like non-muslims gathering in smoke filled rooms planning the deaths of muslim children..

#37, arjun {``the terrorism in Karachi is an unfortunate(for you) side effect of the jihadi indoctrination that your state fosters on your citizens in it`s quest to create islamic holy warriors willing to kill Indians.
So this BS about we`re equal victims doesn`t fly..``}

Arjun,
While numbers shouldn`t really determine the horrible nature of terrorism, it`s a fact that Karachi has suffered more deaths due to this evil than Mumbai, Delhi, and other cities of India. But, limiting the label of terrorism to ``Jehadis,`` displays a cruel and biased tendency to mask the terrorism of the Israelis, the neo-cons, and various armies of occupation.

#33 by Salim_Chauhan on August 2, 2006 8:08am PT


Believe me, it is the same terrorism that is being conducted in Karachi, Quetta, NWFP,


No it`s not..The terrorism in Kashmir and the rest of India is actively armed funded and trained by the paki army and has the support of the paki public..the terrorism in Karachi is an unfortunate(for you) side effect of the jihadi indoctrination that your state fosters on your citizens in it`s quest to create islamic holy warriors willing to kill Indians..

So this BS about we`re equal victims doesn`t fly..

...looks like salim chauhan has got a new soapbox...wonder where are the biharis now...

Re: # 25
Zainabsiddique,

Hi,

Trying to find some semblance of practical logic in your proposition .....

{..... those who appear to be ``a bunch of barbarians`` are none other than ``humans`` of flesh and blood just like us.They are us and we are they.It might sound nonsensical but it is the truth.I feel that the term barbarism is also relative as we might be barbaric for others while they might be barbaric for us.So, again the solution lies in harmonious living with regard and reverence for each other. Regard and dialogue are what the world needs at presen}

Most of us would find the ``acid throwing on girls for jeans`` thing completely barbaric. The ``barbarians`` might find our education or netsurfing barbaric. Only one side would be correct. We are very definitely not ``them`` and ``they`` are very definitely not us. Amongst the hundreds of Hindus & Muslims I know, not one, repeat, not one would be capable of throwing acid on a young girl, no matter what her fault.


Most Indians and pakistanis would not be able to live harmoniously with such barbarians.Nor is any kind of dialogue possible. Tell me, would you like to have a dialogue with acid throwers, rapists and cold blooded killers.

As correctly admitted by you, your idea appears nonsensical. In fact it is.

Wake up.


Okhla99 -- birder.
``May you all hear the whisper of wings``

zainabsiddique,
The ``barbarian`` fits exactly for the taliban and the J&K militants who through acid on 13 year old girls for wearing jeans among their various other antics. Talking with these kind of barbarians is a waste of time. The ultimate solution is total anhilation.

mohar11 #23, {````my enemy`s enemy`` sentiment is kind of recent in india... even with all the islamic sh!t going on for decades - indians have always supported palis, thousands of them got free education in india.. we have maintained good relations with arabs.... we even kept israel at arm`s length until 1991, to our own defense detriment... and for all that - what did we get?... nothing, a big fat zero... we got more islamic terror and it`s getting worse - arab money and paki training is leading our own muslims towards jihad... ``}

Mohar Sahib,
I can understand your resentment at the results of the terrorism in Kashmir, Delhi, Mumbai, Benares, Banglore, and other places. Believe me, it is the same terrorism that is being conducted in Karachi, Quetta, NWFP, and Afghanistan. You might have a point about Arab money and Paki training, but not all ``Arabs`` are involved, just as not all ``Pakis`` provide or even condone this terrorism. ``Arab`` also includes the successful cities of Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Sharja where people of Indian origins have built successful and beneficial lives through hard work and ``Arab`` tolerance and support. Again, let`s not let a few (albeit thousands) of rotten apples destroy every barrel.

Pmishra2 #27, {``Iran is a more complicated and more tragic case. Here you have a situation where western meddling has helped create a hyper-nationalist regime controlled by mullahs. Given the high level of education of iranians (vs. saudi/gulf/pakis) their under-achievement in other aspects (economy, education, engineering) is quite puzzling to me. Is it entirely because of the US embargo and isolation?

Mishra Sahib,
Iran is still recuperating from the catastrophic results of the war unleashed by Sadman Houston in 1979. After suffering millions of casualties, including almost 500,000 dead, Iran is now countering the US-led embargo and isolation. In the case of Iran, the proverb that ``necessity is the mother of invention`` holds true. The longer the arms, goods, and technology embargo is sustained, the more inventive and productive the Iranians will become.

I appreciate your unique sentiments that you expressed so well in the following words:

{``For indians who get cheap thrills out of the troubles of islam/muslims:- FIrst, we are talking literally about our neighbors and in some cases our personal friends. If the muslim community is in turmoil, it will deeply affect india. If the muslim community progresses, it will be greatly to indias advantage.``}


Thanks,

arjun #24, {``Is that why there is almost no support for the Iraq war among Indians?

OTOH, the wahabis are doing a qana every day in Iraq....how many tears have the paki faithful shed over that? hint: the answer is a number the hindus never tire of telling us they invented.... ``}

Arjun,
I said ``many`` Indians, not ``all`` Indians. The lack of support among Indians for the Iraq war could also be attributed to generally ``good`` relations that India had with Sadman Houston. Tell me what have the Lebanese done to Indians to deserve the blind support for Israel and cheering of their own suffering demonstrated by many Indians on Chowk?

Many Pakis, especially Shias, are disgusted and angered by the daily killings being conducted by Sunni Wahabbi inspired AlKayda in Iraq.