Q Isa Daudpota May 22, 2007
#14 Posted by viqarm on May 30, 2007 10:17:50 pm
Re: # 13
``BTW Q is not for Qazi - it stands for Qurious!``
Please accept my apologies for misconstruing part of your name.
I think realistic optimism is a good trait. Others may have hope. Some
(like myself, perhaps) only have a prayer. To each his/her own.
You suggest that there are a few good leaders in Pakistan. Personally I do
not see any one worthwhile, with the possible exception of Palejo; and about
him I know next to nothing (but his statements sound sincere). Whether he can
make a mark on the national scene remains to be seen.
Any coherent movement can only arise out of a consensus of all segments of the
nation. With all the name calling that goes on between the so called leaders (and
even the self appointed opinion makers) you can guess at my assessment of the
chances of that happening. However, I shall not belabor the point.
Best regards.
``BTW Q is not for Qazi - it stands for Qurious!``
Please accept my apologies for misconstruing part of your name.
I think realistic optimism is a good trait. Others may have hope. Some
(like myself, perhaps) only have a prayer. To each his/her own.
You suggest that there are a few good leaders in Pakistan. Personally I do
not see any one worthwhile, with the possible exception of Palejo; and about
him I know next to nothing (but his statements sound sincere). Whether he can
make a mark on the national scene remains to be seen.
Any coherent movement can only arise out of a consensus of all segments of the
nation. With all the name calling that goes on between the so called leaders (and
even the self appointed opinion makers) you can guess at my assessment of the
chances of that happening. However, I shall not belabor the point.
Best regards.
#13 Posted by daudpota on May 30, 2007 7:05:00 am
Re: # 12
``But, then, I am sure all this has nothing to do with the main thrust of your article.
My apolgies (in advance) for the clumsy attempt at side-tracking,`` you wrote...
All healthy people in this country live in hope, for without it, people die. Yes, we moan too much and do little, but deep down we retain some optimism. The challenge is to harness that flickering optimism into a coherent movement for change. The current judicial crisis could mark a turning point.
No one has guaranteed that our boundaries will not change or that we will not have greater upheavals. What one can say for sure is that the people who currently live here - around 160 billion - aren`t going anywhere else. There just aren`t that many green cards, and that`s all for the good. It is for these people, guided by a judicious leadership (and we have a few good leaders), to make this piece of land worth living in.
It is still doable given the will and some good luck.
BTW Q is not for Qazi - it stands for Qurious!
``But, then, I am sure all this has nothing to do with the main thrust of your article.
My apolgies (in advance) for the clumsy attempt at side-tracking,`` you wrote...
All healthy people in this country live in hope, for without it, people die. Yes, we moan too much and do little, but deep down we retain some optimism. The challenge is to harness that flickering optimism into a coherent movement for change. The current judicial crisis could mark a turning point.
No one has guaranteed that our boundaries will not change or that we will not have greater upheavals. What one can say for sure is that the people who currently live here - around 160 billion - aren`t going anywhere else. There just aren`t that many green cards, and that`s all for the good. It is for these people, guided by a judicious leadership (and we have a few good leaders), to make this piece of land worth living in.
It is still doable given the will and some good luck.
BTW Q is not for Qazi - it stands for Qurious!
#12 Posted by viqarm on May 29, 2007 11:57:02 pm
Qazi Sahib,
You must be an eternal optimist. At the very least the country that you and I have
experienced are two different countries. And please don`t tell me I have been away
too long. I was there less than two years ago.
Societies where ``major transformations`` are triggered are those inhabited by a
people with a soul. The sould of the Pak nation seems to be as dead as can be, whether
by circumstances, or by choice. Nine out of ten are crushed under the burden of
finding resources for the next meal for their family. For the remaining one, the less said the better.
aap un se agar pUcheN taQdir`e umam kya hae?
to javab mile ga, ke:
ta`Us-o-rabAb avval ta`Us-o-rabAb Akhir
Rest assured nothing will ``trigger`` except ``kaRhi ka ubAl``. So it did in 1969 and in
1977. Sure, a government may change. There will be much hoopla for a couple of
weeks. Experts like yourself, Prof. Hoodbhoy, and innumerable others will in the
media will get to blow steam via all sorts of profound analyses. Then life will be
back to the old ways: the same weddings, dAvateN, gAna, bajAna, carjacking, break-ins,
robberies, usual propnouncements of dire (ibratnAK, vehshatnAk) consequences for
the perpetrators, and so forth. And so it will go on until, well... the next ``kaRhi ka ubAl``.
But, then, I am sure all this has nothing to do with the main thrust of your article.
My apolgies (in advance) for the clumsy attempt at side-tracking.
You must be an eternal optimist. At the very least the country that you and I have
experienced are two different countries. And please don`t tell me I have been away
too long. I was there less than two years ago.
Societies where ``major transformations`` are triggered are those inhabited by a
people with a soul. The sould of the Pak nation seems to be as dead as can be, whether
by circumstances, or by choice. Nine out of ten are crushed under the burden of
finding resources for the next meal for their family. For the remaining one, the less said the better.
aap un se agar pUcheN taQdir`e umam kya hae?
to javab mile ga, ke:
ta`Us-o-rabAb avval ta`Us-o-rabAb Akhir
Rest assured nothing will ``trigger`` except ``kaRhi ka ubAl``. So it did in 1969 and in
1977. Sure, a government may change. There will be much hoopla for a couple of
weeks. Experts like yourself, Prof. Hoodbhoy, and innumerable others will in the
media will get to blow steam via all sorts of profound analyses. Then life will be
back to the old ways: the same weddings, dAvateN, gAna, bajAna, carjacking, break-ins,
robberies, usual propnouncements of dire (ibratnAK, vehshatnAk) consequences for
the perpetrators, and so forth. And so it will go on until, well... the next ``kaRhi ka ubAl``.
But, then, I am sure all this has nothing to do with the main thrust of your article.
My apolgies (in advance) for the clumsy attempt at side-tracking.
#11 Posted by daudpota on May 27, 2007 7:04:37 am
Re: # 10
I am afraid the question is not relevant to the main thrust of the article. Blindness to exponential growth is what the article points to.
I am afraid the question is not relevant to the main thrust of the article. Blindness to exponential growth is what the article points to.
#10 Posted by GT on May 26, 2007 8:26:23 am
Dear writer,
Is this growth really happening or is it your wish? Or are the elites simply creating a vision of doubling rice grains every square only to tax away half the amount each successive square?
#9 Posted by majumdar on May 25, 2007 12:57:07 am
Daud sahib,
(Let`s not get sidetracked by the theory and origin of the game. )
Sorry that was not my intention.
Regards
(Let`s not get sidetracked by the theory and origin of the game. )
Sorry that was not my intention.
Regards
#8 Posted by daudpota on May 23, 2007 9:17:48 am
Re: # 7
Very interesting and timely that you should mention Centaurus! Tomorrow an environmentalist Helga Ahmed and I will send a letter to the Pakistan Environmental Protection Agency to investigate the illegal construction of this large building complex without an environmental impact assessment and a public hearing.
Here are relevant portions of our letter:
``We have watched with grave concern the construction of this huge complex of multi-purpose building at an extremely busy road junction in Islamabad.
This area is already a bottleneck and while a huge traffic interchange is planned it will further add to the environmental pollution. Not only will the new complex change the small town character of the city it will necessitate large road construction, which will be detrimental to the environment and public health.
The high demand of Centuarus for sewerage disposal, water supply and power will overburden of the city’s current capacity and PEPA ought to ensure that increasing the capacity will not adversely affect the environment. Further, the increased traffic and noise due to the building’s construction and operation could adversely affect the health of patients in PIMS, Islamabad’s biggest hospital, just opposite the project. As the building lies in Earthquake Zone IV it is essential also to make sure that the design conforms to the exacting requirements of this earthquake-prone area.
To our knowledge an environmental impact assessment (EIA) report involving such factors and others has not been submitted to the EPA.
What is of equal concern is that construction work has started without an EIA and public hearing. The PEPA must therefore take note of this infringement of the Pakistan Environmental Protection Act’s Section 12 (see http://www.environment.gov.pk/info.htm ) and act speedily to investigate fully the lack of compliance by PGTL of the building and environmental laws.
An Environmental Tribunal may be constituted as stipulated by the Act to investigate this matter and to ensure that the environmental laws are fully complied with. Until a decision by the Tribunal is made, all work be ordered stopped by PEPA.``
Those who wish to register their concern can write to PEPA and its Director General at: pakepa@isb.compol.com .
Very interesting and timely that you should mention Centaurus! Tomorrow an environmentalist Helga Ahmed and I will send a letter to the Pakistan Environmental Protection Agency to investigate the illegal construction of this large building complex without an environmental impact assessment and a public hearing.
Here are relevant portions of our letter:
``We have watched with grave concern the construction of this huge complex of multi-purpose building at an extremely busy road junction in Islamabad.
This area is already a bottleneck and while a huge traffic interchange is planned it will further add to the environmental pollution. Not only will the new complex change the small town character of the city it will necessitate large road construction, which will be detrimental to the environment and public health.
The high demand of Centuarus for sewerage disposal, water supply and power will overburden of the city’s current capacity and PEPA ought to ensure that increasing the capacity will not adversely affect the environment. Further, the increased traffic and noise due to the building’s construction and operation could adversely affect the health of patients in PIMS, Islamabad’s biggest hospital, just opposite the project. As the building lies in Earthquake Zone IV it is essential also to make sure that the design conforms to the exacting requirements of this earthquake-prone area.
To our knowledge an environmental impact assessment (EIA) report involving such factors and others has not been submitted to the EPA.
What is of equal concern is that construction work has started without an EIA and public hearing. The PEPA must therefore take note of this infringement of the Pakistan Environmental Protection Act’s Section 12 (see http://www.environment.gov.pk/info.htm ) and act speedily to investigate fully the lack of compliance by PGTL of the building and environmental laws.
An Environmental Tribunal may be constituted as stipulated by the Act to investigate this matter and to ensure that the environmental laws are fully complied with. Until a decision by the Tribunal is made, all work be ordered stopped by PEPA.``
Those who wish to register their concern can write to PEPA and its Director General at: pakepa@isb.compol.com .
#7 Posted by Ally on May 23, 2007 8:55:43 am
Interesting article very true observations... another project are those tower blocks in Karachi cutting that area of the beach off to Karachiites and making only for those people who live in the towers/area... Its not got permission to go ahead... by the way CJ also reversed sale of profit making Pak steel or another govt. owned company cant remember which one, but it was sold for a pitance to some friend of PM... that centaurus tower thing looks ugly and out of place for Islamabad, they can make cool building there if they want but at least keep the surrounding environment in mind and make the building blend with the Margalla Hills instead of looking ghastly... big statement like buildings such as those are suited much more to Karachi and Lahore not the capital!
#6 Posted by samar1982 on May 23, 2007 6:19:00 am
Re: # 4, daud saheb,
I doubt if the present king of Pak is equally enlightened to appreciate Chess and Maths as the old Indian king was. Present king would not even bother to reward the intelligent inventor of Paki Chess let alone grasping the meaning of reward.
By the way the article was very interesting, though the fable was quite commonly told story in India.
Samar
I doubt if the present king of Pak is equally enlightened to appreciate Chess and Maths as the old Indian king was. Present king would not even bother to reward the intelligent inventor of Paki Chess let alone grasping the meaning of reward.
By the way the article was very interesting, though the fable was quite commonly told story in India.
Samar
#5 Posted by Folio on May 23, 2007 6:09:18 am
Majumdar & Daudji,
Thanks for the addl info.
Daudji, we read a lot abt the debate on CJ`s ouster. As an Indian it doesnt concern me much.
Majumadar, I remember a TV ad in Hong Kong abt the same story told by Daudpota. They told it as if the Chinese wiseman fooled the King by making him agree to this Chess-foodgrain demand.
Quite interesting.
Thanks for the addl info.
Daudji, we read a lot abt the debate on CJ`s ouster. As an Indian it doesnt concern me much.
Majumadar, I remember a TV ad in Hong Kong abt the same story told by Daudpota. They told it as if the Chinese wiseman fooled the King by making him agree to this Chess-foodgrain demand.
Quite interesting.
#4 Posted by daudpota on May 23, 2007 5:45:15 am
#2 & 3
Let`s not get sidetracked by the theory and origin of the game. I merely meant to suggest the lack of knowledge about exponential growth in many areas of concern in South Asia and elsewhere. You cannot trump exponentially growing problems with `arithmetic` (polynomial) solutions! For example human population growth cannot be countered by increasing food production using conventional agriculture with its linear growth pattern.
Here is what I gleaned about the history of the game from the web:
Chess is a recreational and competitive game for two players. Sometimes called Western Chess or International Chess to distinguish it from its predecessors and other chess variants, the current form of the game emerged in Southern Europe in the second half of the 15th century after evolving from similar, much older games of Indian origin.
I am familiar with the Persian variant of the the tale. Briefly the difference in the international version and the Indian version has to do with the pawns not being able to move two squares and a longish way to castle in the Indian version. There are a few other differences related to queening pawns. This is what I learnt in the early 60s when a cousin bought me my first chess set and I started reading about the game.
Let`s not get sidetracked by the theory and origin of the game. I merely meant to suggest the lack of knowledge about exponential growth in many areas of concern in South Asia and elsewhere. You cannot trump exponentially growing problems with `arithmetic` (polynomial) solutions! For example human population growth cannot be countered by increasing food production using conventional agriculture with its linear growth pattern.
Here is what I gleaned about the history of the game from the web:
Chess is a recreational and competitive game for two players. Sometimes called Western Chess or International Chess to distinguish it from its predecessors and other chess variants, the current form of the game emerged in Southern Europe in the second half of the 15th century after evolving from similar, much older games of Indian origin.
I am familiar with the Persian variant of the the tale. Briefly the difference in the international version and the Indian version has to do with the pawns not being able to move two squares and a longish way to castle in the Indian version. There are a few other differences related to queening pawns. This is what I learnt in the early 60s when a cousin bought me my first chess set and I started reading about the game.
#3 Posted by majumdar on May 23, 2007 5:27:37 am
Folio,
Chess was invented in India, refined in Persia and then exported to West. But the story Daudpota sahib has recalled was said about some Persian emperor, if I am not mistaken.
Regards
Chess was invented in India, refined in Persia and then exported to West. But the story Daudpota sahib has recalled was said about some Persian emperor, if I am not mistaken.
Regards
#2 Posted by Folio on May 23, 2007 4:28:11 am
Daudji,
A very insightful article.
Btw, chess is not invented in India, I think. I am open 4 correction, though.
A very insightful article.
Btw, chess is not invented in India, I think. I am open 4 correction, though.
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