Satanic Verses

sanatani

Since I won`t get the time I really wished for this little note, may I request you to consider just this idea.

Yes, idol use has been with us for a very long time. It has been useful, and it is part of our tradition. And without our tradition we are nothing.

But giving up certain aspects of tradition as and when needed, when we have a factually better alternative is also part of our tradition, the much deeper part.

Idol use was great in the most ancient past. It still doesn`t hurt anyone and helps many. BUT!

But after the arrival of Islam, the practice of Idol use got rhetrorically screwed! Fact was there was NO ONE left alive perhaps to make the case for what the practice was meant to be, what it aimed to accomplish.

By the time Guru Gobind Singh ji came on earth, he might have realized what a burden the idol use had become around our necks. How the nett loss from it was greater than nett gain from it.

Idol use is perfectly fine for some people, people of most amorphous thinking, people like me.

I don`t mind ``worshipping`` even the Bata Shoe, and let any sob come and argue with me.

But that`s not the case with most people. They have no answer to other people`s empty rhetoric. Besides, why must ordinary people, Guru ji, might have thought, waste time and effort defending, arguing over such things?

It is NOT the core of who we are, not by a long shot. Sages throughout the history of India have made fun of, often opposed idol use. And we respect them.

As far as I can remember, there is little support/talk of idol use in the Upanishads.

So why should we argue to deprive most people of the experience and benefit of Sikhism? Sikhism is one of India`s greatest achievements ever. I have rarely seen any sikh half as useless as most liberal Hindus are. I can`t hope to understand what it is, but in a lot of cases, there is something in Sikhism that fixes people`s brains. And atitudes.

I am sorry if I don`t sound very reasonable and logical, but I truely feel we should have a policy of supporting anyone`s conversion to Sikhism, as much as we can. No forcing anybody, just a positive attitude towards it. And to some extent, toward Buddhism as well (although again, buddhism seems to lack the strength that humanity needs).

Idol use will never die. People like me have too much fun with it. I will never give up my freedom to make whatever idol I want, do whatever with it, and throw it into the river whenever I feel I am done with it.

But there are a LOT of people to whom idol use or not, doesn`t matters either way. All of them will be better off as Sikhs than as Hindus.

You seem to be older than I am. If I said something untoward, please excuse my passion. Passionate people often abandon logic. I hope I haven`t done so. And many thanks for your time.

Warmest regards

Dear Sanatani, Humsab and Kaal:

You all are perhaps right. Let`s not just take Sikhism at what Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh said and did at the time. Many Sikhs today do not even assume that having beard and turban is that essential (I am one of them). I believe that religion as practiced by followers evolves over time based upon some basic principles plus needs of the new times. If we do not believe that then how are we different than some others who believe that their holy book is written ones for all and no new thoughts on the topic can be entertained?

I really believe that BASIC principles of Sikhism had the best of Buddhism (focus on this life and good deeds rather than houris in next life), Islam (organize and fight back and do not take crap from others) and Hinduism (do not force your faith on others). It`s up to US to build around it what is necessary per our circumstances. The gurus were not Gods or their messengers.

Gentlemen, I am not a researcher on religions and what I wrote is my understanding after seeing many religious fanatics in action. You all are welcome to correct me.

Regards.

sanatani

That is NOT a problem at all! IMHO, Guru Gobind Singh, who was far wiser and smarter than all of us here on Chowk put together and more, took the right decision.

Please don`t dismiss that yet. It`s just too important, and I don`t want to mess it up by stating it hurriedly and shoddily in the next few minutes. Kindly wait a little today so it can be explained the best it can be for you to re-consider.

---

On Pardesi`s suggestion we were just following up on another supposedly ``crazy`` idea, but IF others have actually thought about it, well, then that is just incredible. We must at least discuss it seriously (because it was sincerely stated), in a brain-storming kind of way. Many thanks for your patience, Sanatani.

``Poorer sections of Hindu society will stop wasting time on idol worshiping/rituals and use this time to improve their lot in this life. They will not believe in last life, future life and 84 lakh birth cycle ``

Were it not for this the same could happen. What is wrong with worshipping idols.

You know we have had this conversation with the Deoras Brothers (Balasaheb and Bhaurao) when one of our venerable teachers said convert all to the Khalsa on the point of the sword (this is 1989 remember when terrorism in Punjab was peaking more and more).

And he had listed many of the points said here but then this factor came in. That of the Gurus opposition to idol worship and see one has never understood the ooposition to Idol worship esp of Dashmeshwar Guru Shiromani Guru Gobind Singh ji because unlike the other gurus he was a Chaturvedi, Shastri and Acharya and the concept of idol worship is mentioned beautifully in the Purans which I still dont see why he did not include in the Dasham Granth. This is my only grouse against him that he could have put to rest this stigmatisation of Idol worship but he did not.

And no boss I do not think that the Sikhs are fight ing caste as vigorously as Hindus. I am yet to meet a Jat Sikh and am talking of the educated ones at that who call themselves that JatSikh and not Sikh.

I fired my Chief Security Officer on this ground only and he was unrepentant.

A SSC of Indian Army writes on his CV I am a Jat Sikh in the column for religion.

Sanatani

Humsab bhai # 573

That`s a philosophical point. Benefits of Sikhism flow either way.

Pardesi ji

`.... They will not believe in last life, future life and 84 lakh birth cycle.`
Are you sure? Are you saying that sikh scriptures don`t state this? Please check up again.
Regards

I havent read your whole article, and wont bother to, But saying that denying Salman rushdie a right to speak out his heart out about something Muslims are too sensitive about, is being naive.

I have read a book of Salman Rushdie...his opinion about God is poisoned. Moreover he generalizes Mullahs as self serving idiots, but then his insensitivity towards muslims is shameful.

Re: # 370
Thank you. Yes all forms of protest must have its limits. Vandalism is not the way to go forward on such trivial issue`s. We have graver matters to tackle. Such as this countries political economic and ecducation system. The class disperancies. And the list goes on

nice article .... and to some extened you are right ....
but friend tell me one thing if u know some thing is wrong than would you like to do ..??,simply if you `ve a bottle filled with poisonous substance than what would u prefer to drink that to confirm or better leave that .....
nywayzz coming back to the point one should record his/her point of view in a proper manner ,no one can stop you to protest but protest on the cost of harming your own assets or public property thats not fair .....