Liberal Raiments?

very boring yawn...peace

PM,

I haven`t read Paglia yet, have been told to work up a stomach for her work. And female beauty in all its forms (except when it`s wearing Ann Coultier`s mules and mouthing off with her mouth)..

from an article posted article:
``Hijazi speaks of Western women feeling constantly scrutinized about their appearance. At times the scrutiny can be so overwhelming that women begin to doubt their own attractiveness – to the point of spending huge sums of money on beauty products and in extreme cases falling victim to eating disorders. Covering everything but the face and hands takes away some of the pressure to be ``beautiful.`` The chador may have the same effect as a uniform``: just as a school uniform helps avoid fashion wars among students and insecurity among those who fail to live up to the standard of the day, the chador automatically precludes judgement of the wearer’s physical beauty.``
Hey.. wait a minute.. I *like* the idea of female beauty--even stereotyped (isn`t all perception of beauty conditioned?) Go find your respective lakes to jump into, both Samina and Ghalibzaman! Why hide it??
Anyways... if one DOES desire relief from the `pressure to be ``beautiful```, there`s always loose-fitting shirts and trousers, not to mention skirts, blouses and dresses, one can find for oneself. The hijab in the West may be more a sign of identity-insecurity than any real attempt at modesty, for which indigenous dress may serve the purpose.
Samina, on a serious note, have you read Paglia`s Sexual Personae? What do u think of it and her?
rgds,
PM

Ally,

I`m sorry, but I firmly believe that chadoring, burqaing and hijabing are clearly patriarchical mechanisms; this theme has been developed by many Muslim and South Asian, Middle Eastern and Asian women scholars.

Gulab Jamun,

You are irrelevant, an anachronism, a hypocrite and a criminal. I Only someone like you would find pride in these qualities.

Ref ali87 #25

[You do not answer that question convenitnely ignore it. The Western people show great disregard and disrespect when they are in Asian religous places.(though there are a minority who do show respect). The simple requirement to remove shoes and have body covered in religious places is met with derision and rolling of eyes.]

In Italy, the churches make it very clear: no sleeveless blouses/tank tops, no shorts. Otherwise no admission to the church. Women must wear a skirt reaching at least up the knee. The rule applies equally to men: no shorts or tank tops. In Rome, they sell paper trousers for 5 euros in case you came to St. Peter`s in shorts (like my brother did) and cannot return to your hotel to change.

[When western women managers start wearing Sari while reciving a Indian client Ill say that truly there is no pressure.]

Let us not go that far. But my wife said during her interviews in the US that she planned to wear a sari to work (she wore one to the interview itself) and was that going to be a problem? It wasn`t.

ali87:#25
Good analysis!

The very fact that we are becoming aware of our acquired stupidities or peer-pressure ( Following PIRs bad bad---Peer pressure good good, got to do) is a sign that the big wheel has been cranked.

The commie has been completed routed at the Economic-policy front now he has to be defanged of godlessness. A denynot-muslim trying his best not to admit being a muslim is a pathetic sight indeed. He gets goosebumps, warts, and the chills which he mistakes for a make-over of an already ugly face.

Regardless of what people think, i think that the Sari is a beautiful, elegant and respectable dress, i loved to see all the women in KHI wearing it, it looked so nice and izzatdaar... i also think the same for shalwaar kameez, but it is the most comfortable libaas i have ever worn, keeps your izzat and gives you flexibility at the same time... but my all time favourite is the Dhoti, very comfortable, very practicle (at least in a hot climate) and very Punjabi ;)

Saminasha #27

That article is hilarious it was sent to me ages ago...

#26

What about those Iranian women that want to wear it, because they actually want to?

Allah did give us the right to choose, and as they say there should be no compulsion in faith...

but that aricle you posted to me sounds just as fanatical and fundamentalists as some strung up Radical, but in the other direction...

live and let live sister, and remember there is a middle path!!!

Women`s Dress and Islam
By- Faegheh Shirazi

Faegheh Shirazi is an assistant professor at the Department of Middle Eastern Languages and Cultures at the University of Texas at Austin. Her book `` The Veil Unveiled: Hijab in Modern Cultures`` University Press of Florida, is in the press and is expected in June 2001.


Each society classifies dress according to age, gender and status. Clothes may be labeled ``improper`` if deemed to be immoral by a social, cultural or religious standard. Some societies use the hijab or Islamic modest dress and veil, to promote the idea that by keeping women veiled, not only is Islam saved but Islamic societies are also purified.

At a personal level, Islam for me has a special meaning. I tend to accept it as a liberating, egalitarian religion in which women were given many rights. What went wrong in my opinion was because of the misogynist attitudes and the dominance of patriarchal societies in which Islam grew. In such societies, a woman`s body is viewed as property, with national, cultural and moral significance. Her body no longer belongs to the individual woman. Her body as property belongs to the men of the family. In this perspective she is the representative of the family`s honor or shame and all its extensions in their lives. Her moral conduct is everyone`s business. Thus it is clear that controlling and restricting her physical movements, public appearance and mode of attire serves the patriarchal agenda. Men, by securing their womenfolk against slander, believe they have saved themselves from slanderous remarks. To seal this form of control, Islam as a religion is used against women, to legitimize the patriarchal agenda.

Islam, for instance, does not prohibit women seeking knowledge, reading or writing. Women also have full access to religious texts. However throughout the history of the Muslim world, men have been the interpreters of sacred texts. This has created challenges for women. A number of feminist scholars have argued that it is time for a feminist interpretation of all the sacred texts. Such views are being expressed openly and there are even demands for legal changes. Muslim women are questioning the monopoly of patriarchal interpretations of the sacred texts, not on the basis of the secular rally for women`s emancipation, but for the human equality granted to women by Islam.

Religious authorities base their argument for enforcing the veiling of Muslim women on religious grounds. They argue that the veil is a requirement and obligation for Muslim women. They rely for instance on a sentence in the Nur chapter of the Qur`an: ``Draw their (women`s) veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty``. There are ambiguities in the various translations and interpretations of the same verses by different authorities. Muslim feminist writers urge readers to evaluate Qur`anic verses more deeply, based on the social and political situation of the Prophet during the specific time of revelation of these verses. They say that the spirit of such injunctions is to recommend modesty of attire, not specifically veiling --- and that such modesty in dress and behavior is also, in other verses, implied for men.

Fatima Mernissi, author of The Veil and the Male Elite expresses her opinion thus: ``When I finished writing this book, I had come to understand one thing: if women`s rights are a problem for some modern Muslim men, it is neither because of the Koran nor the Prophet nor the Islamic tradition, but simply because those rights conflict with the interests of the male elite.`` (Mernissi, 1991, p. ix).

Veiling and seclusion of women are a consequence of a patriarchal society. The issue of dress as a personal and political concern has implications for gender power and status in all cultures. Realizing this helps us understand why the Islamic patriarchy takes so much interest in the veil; in this context the veil is symbolic of a power struggle.

References:
Gilsenan, Michael (1982). Recognizing Islam, Religion and Society in the Modern Arab World. New York, Pantheon Books.
Mernissi, Fatima (1991). The Veil and the Male Elite, A Feminist Interpretation of Women`s Rights in

Footnote:
This article was published in the Saheli Newsletter in November 1999. It is an extract from a longer paper by the author.

GHAZNI, AFGHANISTAN—Outraged by the recent loosening of dress codes in her country, burqa wearer Uliya Salah condemned fellow Afghani Raheela Asaad Monday for appearing in public wearing an upper-face-revealing chador.


Above: The burqa-wearing Salah, who is outraged by Asaad`s (far right) immodest dress.
``Just look how she dresses, the bridge of her nose visible for all the world to see,`` said Salah, watching Asaad walk past her in downtown Ghazni. ``Has she no shame?``

Not wanting to risk the chance that a stranger might be forced to hear a woman`s voice, Salah whispered her indignant remarks through the small mesh square in her garment.

``Perhaps one could wear that sort of thing in the deepest recesses of one`s home, where even male family members are not allowed,`` Salah said. ``But doing so in public like that is outrageous. The harlot may as well strip off her veil and reveal her hair to the world.``

As a strict follower of Pashtun traditions, Salah said she finds it laughable that Asaad considers herself to be a devout Muslim.

``[Asaad] is clearly pursuing her darkest passions,`` Salah said. ``Now that the Taliban is no longer here to protect their virtue, many of the women in the city have begun to walk around in shockingly immodest garb, shamelessly wearing next to nothing on their hands.``

Asaad`s garment was not only too revealing, Salah said, but it also bore numerous decorative touches—a mark of the sin of vanity.

``Did you see that small line of embroidery at the border of her veil?`` Salah asked. ``What is next? A series of stripes at the hem of the garment near the ankles? I pray to Allah that I never see the day.``

Salah has been in a near-constant state of outrage since Nov. 13, when the Taliban was ousted from her village. On that day, emboldened by the Northern Alliance victory, hundreds of women threw off their conservative burqas in favor of skimpy, low-cut chadors that exposed portions of their faces.

``It is sinful for a woman to tempt a man by revealing the color of her eyes to him,`` Salah said. ``But the women around here leave nothing to the imagination. The pupil, the iris, the cornea... It`s all right out there in the open for men to ogle.``

Now that dressing less conservatively no longer carries the risk of public whipping, Asaad said she may wear jewelry or Western fashions beneath her chador.

``It is an important part of both my religion and my culture to observe full hajib,`` said Asaad, who has worn traditional garb since she was 13. ``I keep my body covered when in the presence of men. In the mosque, I am careful to keep my eyes lowered at all times. But it would be nice to wear something different once in a while, like a shoe with an attractive but respectful heel.``

Salah was outraged by the notion.

``Only whores of Babylon wear heels!`` Salah said. ``Under the Taliban, it was illegal to wear high heels or any other shoe that produces a sound when walking, because a man must not hear a woman`s footsteps. What is this world coming to?``

Asaad said she is eager to return to her old life, before she was confined to her house and only allowed outside when escorted by a male relative.

``Of course, there are many things women should not do, like watch television or go to dances or read Western fashion magazines,`` Asaad said. ``But I did miss being able to leave the house.``

Asaad said she also hopes to return to school-teaching, which was her occupation before the Taliban forbade women from working.

``I taught math and reading and other subjects to young girls,`` Asaad said. ``I taught them how to read the words of the prophet Mohammed and how to be a devoted follower of Islam.``

Salah questioned Asaad`s claims of devotion to Islam, citing a scandal in which she was involved last year. In May 2000, despite restrictions against women being examined by men, Asaad was caught attempting to see a male physician for treatment of kidney stones. It was only through a large bribe to Taliban officials and a three-month period of seclusion in a neighboring village that she escaped execution.

``It makes me sick to look at women like Raheela Asaad,`` Salah said. ``She deserved no less a punishment than death for her blasphemy.``

Despite the scandal and her liberal interpretation of Islamic law, Asaad said she is not ashamed of her actions.

``I am proud to be a modern woman,`` Asaad said. ``I believe that women should be allowed to attend the university, so long as the school provides a separate area for women to sit in and they do not speak to the instructor before being spoken to. I even think it is acceptable for a young woman to ride a bicycle, provided she is out in the country where no man can view it. This is the 21st century, after all.``

The Onion

#21 by tahmed32 on January 21, 2003 4:11pm PT

so you want to apply convoulted logic to it.

My contention is that every culture has its own beauty. So if it is a Sarong in the far east or the Salwar kameez else where I dont see why should it be that people in the asians in the west should wear Western clothes. Why should they be forced to conform(this is usually the case only the pressure is indirect and now a days mainly from the westernised South asians and not the westerners.)

People like you choose to live in a idealistic dream not realising the ground realities. Why is that across the world every country every culture had taken up on western Dress both for men as well as women? It was usually pressure initally from western occupiers and later on by the western elites to force people to conform to the dress of the west. Now it has become defacto for any business in any part of the world to expect men to come in formal Western clothes as if non western clothes are inferior.

You do not answer that question convenitnely ignore it. The Western people show great disregard and disrespect when they are in Asian religous places.(though there are a minority who do show respect). The simple requirement to remove shoes and have body covered in religious places is met with derision and rolling of eyes.

While you preach the value of adjustment to asians perhaps you would direct this to the US businessmen in Gulf who want their daily beer the way the got it in US.

BBC Simsons programme gleefuly latches on to a one single greviance as if it a critical issue in human life while telling a story of a British woman who has lived in Iran for the last 23 years in Iran 15 years of which she lives voluntary there after being widowed. Her major complaint is that her children (two teenage girls) cant get the chance of going and doing the ``normal things teenagers do`` ie they cant do out and dance with boys and have a beer once in a while. That they have freedom to achive what ever they want, That they face no discrimation in socitey, that they value the saftey of the cities, that they were able to prosper, that they were not harrassed even though the husband was once convicted for selling state secrets is all of no importance. Just absence of beer and dance is the single most issue in human life.

Similar is the case in almost every report about women coming from that part of the world. A news paper last month thought it fit to judge progress in a far flung pakistani village by the fact that after getting school education two of the girls of marriageable age said that they had no intrest in getting married and wanted to pursue some other activites. That education in the last 20 years had radically changed the social life and brought about many positve changes faded away in the background the message was ``See any one getting educated does not want to marry`` even though there were only two of the 20 odd women who they intervied who said that in the passing.

Same bias is visible in western reporting in any part of the world. For them just a hint that a couple of women dont see much importance in marrying after being educated is like a justification of the present western culture is superior. I this is brought out in major media stories etc. But Mr tahameds of the world are blind to it.

When western women managers start wearing Sari while reciving a Indian client Ill say that truly there is no pressure.

Till then I would prefer and encourage other dress and culture on people who belong to those roots.

tahmeds of the world also have habit of runnign away from any discussion where the the hollowness of their thoughts is exposed.

That is Ok with me. You are not the only one im adressign the posts to.

Against Hijab
By Azam Kamguian

Today, in commemoration of the International Women`s Day, we, freedom - lovers and passionate advocates of women`s rights have gathered here to protest against the mandatory veiling of women in Iran.

For us, the veil is not just another kind of clothing; and opposing it is not just defending the right to freedom of clothing even though it is put forward as such. Veiling internalises the Islamic notion in women that they belong to an inferior sex, and that they are sex objects. It teaches them to limit their physical movements and their free behaviour. Veiling is a powerful tool to institutionalise women`s segregation and to implement a system of sexual apartheid. It signifies the subjugation and servitude of women based on Islamic doctrine and Koranic teachings.

Much more than a way of clothing, hijab is the manifestation of an outright Islamic misogynism and an antiquated view on women`s status. It is designed to control women`s sexuality much more effectively than any other religion or ideological system.

Furthermore, during the last thirty years, hijab has been and continues to be the political and ideological symbol of political Islam, Islamic states and Islamic movement in the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia. Women have been the first - hand victims of this reactionary movement, and imposing the veil on women by Islamic movement and Islamic governments has been their fist bloody action to suppress the whole society.

Against imposing the veil on women, there exists a massive social movement of resistance and defiance of women in Iran. Hijab has become a highly serious issue for the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Therefore, on the international women`s day, in protest against hijab, we declare that:

· We fight for the abolition of compulsory veil , alongside the women`s equal rights movement in Iran,

· We struggle against the violent actions of Islamic Republic including flogging and imprisonment to impose hijab,

· We consider dress freedom as a basic right of people,

· We believe in banning the hijab for girls under 16, as it deprives them of a happy, equal and active life, and violates their basic human rights,

· We, alongside people in Iran, fight against the rule of sexual apartheid,

· We consider secularism as a pre - condition for women`s liberation; we alongside the majority of people in Iran, fight for freedom, secularism and separation of religion from the state,

Down with the Islamic Republic of Iran!

Freedom, Equality & Universal Rights for Women in Iran!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Azam Kamguian`s speech given at rallies held on 8 March 2001 in front of embassies of the Islamic Republic of Iran in London -UK, and Helsinki - Finland.

info@secularislam.org

Aisha khan

A very original write-up. Please bring such muslim-culture subjects vis-a-vis Pakistan more & more to CHOWK. Our muslim women must speak and write more to counter the heathenistic/hedonistic aliens masquerading as margarine-muslims among us.

Sapuri:
salaam.
Please visit more often.

ali87: very good posts. Let us get the munafiques in their lairs...and smoke them there.

A western womans view on muslim dress-code.

A different perspective of hijab is given by Muslim women who choose to abide by it themselves. One such woman is Faten Hijazi, a computer engineering student and former president of the Muslim Student Association at San Jose State University. Explaining that hijab cannot be forced on an individual and that Islam prescribes modesty for both men and women, in an opinion piece in the Spartan Daily she describes this code of dress – which, in her case, involves exposing only her face and hands - as liberating. It spares her, she says, from being sexually harassed and objectified and allows her to be seen as a person, not an object. Interestingly, a young American woman who converted to Islam wrote some years ago in Sassy Magazine that wearing a veil made her feel better because now people looked at her as a full human being rather than a sexual plaything.

It is true that women in the West are judged on the basis of their appearance, objectified, and, all too often, sexually harassed. Hijab can to some extent protect a woman from all this. I remember visiting Cartagena, Colombia and wearing what I thought were conservative clothes (a short-sleeved cotton blouse and knee-length skirt). Either the skirt had shrunk in the wash, however, or I was walking so fast that it rode up above my knees, because a man on a motorbike shouted out ``nice legs`` as he drove by me. It struck me then and there that if I had been in Saudi Arabia in a chador, this would never have happened.

The ``nice legs`` incident didn’t bother me too much; my philosophy is that a lowlife like the man on the bike isn’t worth getting upset over. Nonetheless, I understand why a woman from a culture more traditional than mine might be disturbed by such an event. I myself agonized almost weekly as an eleven-year-old undergoing early puberty when the boys in my class teased me about posing for Playboy.


______________________

It is true that women in the West are judged on the basis of
their appearance, objectified, and, all too often, sexually harassed.
Hijab can to some extent protect a woman from all this.
______________________


Hijazi speaks of Western women feeling constantly scrutinized about their appearance. At times the scrutiny can be so overwhelming that women begin to doubt their own attractiveness – to the point of spending huge sums of money on beauty products and in extreme cases falling victim to eating disorders. Covering everything but the face and hands takes away some of the pressure to be ``beautiful.`` The chador may have the same effect as a uniform: just as a school uniform helps avoid fashion wars among students and insecurity among those who fail to live up to the standard of the day, the chador automatically precludes judgement of the wearer’s physical beauty.

I have some problems with Hijazi’s interpretation of hijab, though. While it may shield some women from obsession about their appearance, body dissatisfaction and eating disorders, there will always be women who no matter how they dress will feel fat, unattractive or insecure in other ways. Nor can the chador by itself protect women from rape and sexual harassment at all times. A man intent on sexually assaulting a woman will try to do so regardless of the potential victim’s attire. In addition, for some women comments like those from the man in Cartagena are a small price to pay for wearing clothing they find comfortable.

Hijazi emphasizes at the beginning of her piece that hijab is a choice. Obviously it is for her. She doesn’t mention, however, that in some Islamic countries wearing a chador or even a burqa is a legal obligation, not an option. Let me say upfront that I’m a fairly conservative dresser myself. Forced to choose between the burqa and Madonna’s stage gear, I’d probably choose the former. But I can’t condone any society that denies women, or men for that matter, the choice of what to wear. To use an analogy, although I am not Jewish, I’d feel uncomfortable in a country that forbade Jews to practice their religion.

I also question the implication that anything more revealing than the chador is immodest. One Arab website, for instance, suggests that one reason for the rape of Filipina domestics in the Gulf States is the way these women dress. On the site is a picture of two Filipinas in short-sleeved blouses and skirts cut just below the knee. Of course the rape of any woman - whether she’s naked or clad in a burqa or whether she’s Mother Teresa or Annie Sprinkle - is unacceptable, but the two Filipinas in the picture didn’t strike me as any more immodestly dressed than the out-of-habit nuns at my Catholic high school. It’s ironic that in the West, Asian women are viewed as sexually conservative, a stereotype promoted ad nauseam by mail order bride agencies eager to advertise these women’s virtues to Western men. To paraphrase an old saying, one man’s whore is another man’s virgin. It makes me sick, though, to hear of women being blamed for rape because of their attire. In addition, one has to wonder, judging by that particular website, whether the concern for women’s welfare Muslim commentators frequently attribute to Islam applies to all women or just those deemed ``good`` enough.

I admit that like many Westerners, I at first regarded the chador as a symbol of Muslim women’s oppression. Reading articles like Hijazi’s has helped me come to a more open-minded position on hijab and the treatment of women in Islam in general. Though I myself would probably never embrace this dress code, I respect the decision of any other woman to do so. But that decision must always be a choice rather than a legal requirement.

ali87 #20 I think you reveal more about yourself than perhaps even you realize in this post. You reveal yourself to be fully sunk in that same slavish attitude of which you (quite incorrectly) accuse me. For example, you write ``They wear their salwar kameezs in office and there is not a single day they are not complimented by women and men. Not only in the office but in any place`` and you write ``ON the other hand there is only encouragement and respect on the part of the western men and women who warmly commend the women at my office.``
Ask yourself this question: why do I need the ``encouragement and respect of western men and women``. If you were truly a self-respecting man, you would not be concerned with this. You would only be concerned with dressing decently per the generally accepted definition of decent dress I had provided below. You will also note that the definition I provided is not concerned with looking decent before western people only, but also with looking decent before people on the streets of Rawalpindi as well. Your post reveals a concern only for attention from western people.
Try to get rid of your inferiority complex the proper way, that by learning some self-respect, and respect for all people (including desis, and not just westerners as your post clearly reveals). Dont try to get rid of your inferiority complex by accusing other people of slavish thinking. There is nothing in my post to indicate slavish thinking, and if there is I challenge you to cut and paste and explain in a logical way how it indicates slavish thinking.
I will not respond to any subsequent post you write unless I think you have written anything rational or sensible or factual, unlike what you wrote in this post.

#15 by tahmed32 on January 20, 2003 4:53pm PT

The experience of my Indian female colleauges in office shows the true slavery of the like of tahmeds of this world. They wear their salwar kameezs in office and there is not a single day they are not complimented by women and men. Not only in the office but in any place. In gorcery shop lines, in malls at tourist places there is not a single day that someone stranger(usually western women) compliment them on thier dress. Only ones dissenting are the Indians men who give the same stupid Dress Theories.
Your thumb is rotting from being dipped to long in the bottle of mental slavery.

Using the same rule of thumb the South asian business in India or Pakistan and else where have adpoted tie and coat as the ultimate business formals.
So if your client is visiting ask as many of your staff as possible to wear western business attire.
How many western women switch to the saree or salwar kameez in any business situation anywhere in the world?

ON the other hand there is only encouragement and respect on the part of the western men and women who warmly commend the women at my office. It has gone to such an extent that they take their help and suppourt to stand up to the Indian managers who ask them to wear western clothes citing client policy or regulations. Situation has taken an intersting turn with the women taking the issue to the senior management in India on this pressure on part of Indian managers all armed with emails of suppourt and the policy of the client to take on the management with a barely hidden threat of taking the issue to the press.

Take the veil of mental slavery off your mind there is a new world out there.

#18 by nazarhayatkhan on January 21, 2003 7:01am PT

I want to add some more reality to your description. Imagine your mother in that role with you as a by stander as she creates ``a stir & electric in the air``

On the other hand....

If any more people are available who can create electirc Im thinking of starting a electric farm to provide the much need electricity for Indian Industires. Im sure the venture captialists will be more than willing to invest in this unique and renewable energy source.