War of Independence or the Great Mutiny

VRV,

yeah, that's right.. we need to get rid of this mutiny-first war of independence myths..

Masan,

This sums up my point:

'In that sense they contributed to the process of awareness. It is up to each generation to push this process forward. We may not like or support each and every such process.

Nevertheless, we should understand that they will eventually lead to FREEDOM.'

(GT may have said with G & J in mind, I think but in my view, the Indian nationalist view of Mutiny can be packaged like this).

VRV,

it's early morning for me.. still feeling sleepy. i can't figure out what you are implying by quoting that comment. can you explain?.

Masan,

I dont like to plagiarise but I liked this post of GT which I think fits the bill here.


(Sad Day for Pakistan)

#214 Posted by GT on October 3, 2007 4:51:19 am
majumdar:

I understand that you are using the word 'independence' in the sense of 14/15 August. In that sense you are right. However, if you use the word 'independence' in a broader sense you will agree that we are still slaves of those who rule us (whether or not they have been elected). In this sense, we have a long way to go.

But we, Pakistan and India, are indeed progressing towards that goal. It is very important to criticize ourselves and we should. At the same time we should not gloss over our achievements. Pakistan and India are way ahead of many African countries, Venezuela and Cuba in terms of general independence.

Yesterday 85 MPs resigned in Pakistan. Nobody in chowk applauded them. Their term was ending anyway, they are corrupt, they have their selfish motives etc. etc. would be the reasons given. But what would we have said had they not resigned? Small acts like these create precedents and have bigger effects in the longer run. Independence is carved through these small blows on the mai-baap frame of reference. Instant gratification should not be sought simply because it is not feasible.

In the sense mentioned above we indeed had a lot of freedom fighters. People like Gandhi, Jinnah etc. brought sparks of awareness of political rights and aspirations in (prhaps small) pockets of the unwashed in our sub-continent. In that sense they contributed to the process of awareness. It is upto each generation to push this process forward. We may not like or support each and every such process.

Nevertheless, we should understand that they will eventually lead to FREEDOM.

That's real brute and honest comment. Thanks.

Honestly KC, I like Bill coz he added new material to the corpus of Indian history. As a non-Muslim he cant be having any agendas here.

As a student of history, I like his contributions. As I always maintained interpretations can vary but facts cant.

Thanks.

VRV,

I was not talking in particular about you, but the "myth making industry" in India which has treated 1857 as the "First war of Independence". It started with Savarkar who was glorifying his fellow Maratha Brahmins (Jhansi Rani, Nana Saheb) and later latched on to by folks who wanted to show some kind of Hindu-Muslim unity..

Kaal,

yes we do have similar views on certain issues..

oho, vrv, with zee and I, our mutual affection is not based on wearing vacuous grins and showing monkey teeth to each other. We are such good friend precisely because we are brutally honest with each other, all the time, knowing full well we happen to be on DIFFERENT sides.

i.e when Zeemax is not around.

Kaala Ckakra,

U can be honest and outright only where there's no Zeemax? ;-)

masan, I am amazed. We have identical readings on this entire thing, including about Mr damnrumple.

The operative word here is creative destruction.

re: # 14 masanamuthu

well put. I feel that Dalrymple is a muslim apologist.

You may not like Dalrymple but I do like his writings.

Can u tell me where did I glorify:

..'the event as first war of independence.'

???????

******
I said that soldiers dont have any ideology, they are just employees who hire their martial services for money. In very rare cases soldiers do get swayed by extraneous forces for altruistic reasons.
******

that's right, my point is why glorify the event as first war of independence..

I've read the "last mughal", nothing great.. Dalrymple is one "wannabe white mughal" writing all this Mughal hagiography. setting up a harem for him would bring peace to him.

who give their martial services for money

Masan,

I said that soldiers dont have any ideology, they are just employees who hire their martial services for money. In very rare cases soldiers do get swayed by extraneous forces for altruistic reasons.

Mutiny has too many hues to be labelled as a story of single thread and it's not an all-India war. Indians in 1857 dont have an afinity beyond their castes and religions.

U can tear apart the event in history the way u like. I had many thoughts on Mutiny. I read views of Indians, Pakistanis & I also read the books by British for British people. The narratives are too gruesome; the way the any white kid, women was butchered is beyond our imagination. We only read how British fired our sepoys from the cannon barrels. As always history is abt versions. Btw I am yet to read the book of Dalrymple. It must be interesting.

Since I didnt read the book I didnt comment on this article. Hope u read the book.