Small Spies Must be Hanged , While Bigger Ones Prosper

By casting unsubstantiated aspertions on such a dedicated man as Munir Ahmad Khan, who headed Pakistan's nuclear program as PAEC chairman for 19 long years, from 1972-91, Brig. Tirmizi has only blackened the face of the ISI.

What he has failed to explain is how did Munir Khan continue as PAEC chairman under diametrically opposed regimes and governments, from ZA Bhutto to General Zia, from Junejo to Benazir, Nawaz Sharif and Ghulam Ishaq Khan, and also continue to have their confidence and support for several projects in PAEC that he had launched and managed; and work with several Army and Intelligence Chiefs, if Tirmizi's accusations should be assumed to have been true.

Munir Khan's scientific colleagues who worked with him in PAEC for 19 years, from Dr. Isfhaq Ahmad, Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, Pervez Butt and many others have testified on numerous occasions to his impeccable integrity, honesty, patriotism and devotion to duty.

In fact, it is well known that Munir Khan's penchant for secrecy was legendary. This was so successful that throughout the 1970s and 80s, the world and the CIA kept guessing on exactly what PAEC was doing and what was its exact role.

His policy of secrecy was so successful that when PAEC under him carried out the first cold test of an atomic bomb on March 11, 1983, it remained a closely guarded secret known only to the Vice Chief of Army Staff, President Zia and Ghulam Ishfaq Khan. The cloak of secrecy on PAEC was only lifted when it came out in the open and successfully carried out six nuclear tests in May 1998.

Tirmizi is a contiuation of a massive effort launched by PAEC's detractors who have been involved in illegally selling Pakistan's centrifuge technology, and who have made several attempts to discredit Munir Khan and PAEC.

But Munir's work speaks for itself. Under his leadership, Pakistan's nucelar program developed into a dynamic centre of nuclear science and technology. From 1972 onwards, he launched several projects in PAEC ranging from uranium exploration, mining, refining, nuclear fuel fabrication, uranium conversion and enrichment feed production, uranium enrichment, and reprocessing facilities.

In addition under Munir's leadership Pakistan's indigenous nuclear reactor in Khushab, the nuclear test sites at Chaghi, the infrastructure for the design, development and testing of nuclear weapons beginning in 1974, and the entire nuclear fuel cycle program was built and developed in PAEC.

No amount of mudslinging can erase the contribution made by Munir Khan and his team of hundreds of dedicated scientists and engineers who enabled Pakistan to come on the nuclear map of the world.

Over my life time I have heard the word "caste" mentioned numerous times, sometimes I hear it in context with the Hindu faith and at times in context with Punjabi ethnicity or culture.
If there is someone out there with knowledge on the subject of "caste system" in Hindu faith and also in typical Punjabi culture, I will appreciate understanding the basics of caste system and the castes itself.
Anticipating a scholarly response.
Thank you.

Shoaib Ahthar looks like a dravidian...

Re: # 148
HP...You are really dumb...Islam has not created a civilisation in Pakistan (unlike the jews in Israel). (In present day Pakistan) There were more than 3000 years of continious human habitation and civilisation...(When people learn the skill of agricluture, they leave niomadic life and settle. Food is primary requirement for human settlement)...It is natural that, most of the people in present Pakistan are descendants of of the people of that land, rather than that of Arab invaders...
From family customs it is possible to find linkage to other group. Though I am "farmer" by caste in West Bengal, our family customs gives enough hint that our ancestors were Utkal (from Orissa) Brahmins may be 200 years ago...

Re: # 148
HP...You are really dumb...Islam has not created a civilisation in Pakistan (unlike the jews in Israel). (In present day Pakistan) There were more than 3000 years of continious human habitation and civilisation...(When people learn the skill of agricluture, they leave niomadic life and settle. Food is primary requirement for human settlement)...It is natural that, most of the people in present Pakistan are descendants of of the people of that land, rather than that of Arab invaders...
From family customs it is possible to find linkage to other group. Though I am "farmer" by caste in West Bengal, our family customs gives enough hint that our ancestors were Utkal (from Orissa) Brahmins may be 200 years ago...

Re: # 148
HP...You are really dumb...Islam has not created a civilisation in Pakistan (unlike the jews in Israel). (In present day Pakistan) There were more than 3000 years of continious human habitation and civilisation...(When people learn the skill of agricluture, they leave niomadic life and settle. Food is primary requirement for human settlement)...It is natural that, most of the people in present Pakistan are descendants of of the people of that land, rather than that of Arab invaders...
From family customs it is possible to find linkage to other group. Though I am "farmer" by caste in West Bengal, our family customs gives enough hint that our ancestors were Utkal (from Orissa) Brahmins may be 200 years ago...

Re: # 126
Masadi, if I were to use your language you don't deserve of more than one drop of your favorite fluid and that too should be enough to drown a character like you.
As far as my existence here is concerned that is not to compete with anyone and does not justify anyone's legitimacy regardless of how long they have been here, rather what counts is "morals" which you don't seem to exhibit.
It's time you get over with the fever of your self-righteousness and adopt a language of sobriety.
To correct your misunderstanding and illusiveness you are the one who interrupted and commented on my statement, I did not come to your threshold, if you have a difficulty in following the thread then you should make sure that you do not step on others, otherwise you will be shoved.

Re: # 148; HP

Read the last two words of 'Interact 141' out loud to yourself and your dog for me.......

#148
"the school level which was the scoop of the discussion here."

Should be:
the school level which was the scope of the discussion here.

#144 Posted by akcheema

You are such a woozy. Dr. Mubarak was my teacher and believe me, I can actually ask him to come on chowk and post what he meant. His quote refers to “Study” which could be at a higher level and not at the school level which was the scoop of the discussion here. 1960 was only 13 years after the partition and there might be some studies in Punjab University or other universities in Pakistan which dealt with Ramayana and Mahabharata.

In fact, in Sindhialogy department of Sindh University, Jamshoro, where Dr. Mubarak was also a professor of History, they still teach several subjects that were related to the Hindu and Buddhist periods in Sindh. But these are places for higher learning and not Grade schools.

One last thing; you couldn’t even figure out the reference to your Sikh Heritage…shows how dumb you are.

On the Indian side, Romila Thapar and Irfan Habib have likely done more to spread religious hatred and intolerance than any other pair of 'Indians' (Irfan Habib is an Indian, but is Romila Thapar an Indian too?). They led an endless school of Nehruzada 'historians' who assiduously painted a most bizarre picture of universal love and brotherhood that anybody with any intelligence outgrew with teenage years.

Thanks to these two 'scholars' and their mindless acolytes, generation after generation of Indians was brought up to discover things the very hard way - by travelling and seeing facts with their own eyes, by reading books on their own time, and finding that these books mostly said totally opposite of what Thapar-Habib combine claimed they did.

So, Indian history, the way Thapar-Habib combine sold it, certainly is the primary source of historical animus.

But historical animus is quite a small element in the overall scheme of perceptions. Ideological hatred is almost entirely absent since Hindus know nothing of Islam - they are completely convinced that Islam is just the same as Hindusim - Arabic Hinduism as it were. Most of the hatred is related to political issues and actions of the two states, as Indians see external events (with an exaggerated sense) impacting their and their children's lives.

Now, with TV and other forms of electronic communication, anybody playing the enemy gets painted darker and much quicker than before.

What I wanted to convey was that we do not learn about the leaders in other fields such Economy, Agriculture, Trade, Engineering, Spirituality and Social Engineering.

The reaon for no large land holding in Maharashtra gave rise to ccoperative movement that distinguishes rural Maharashtra from UP & Bihar. Casticism is severe where there is feudalism. Sant Parampara (Warkari) worked hand-in hand with political power of Marathas. Shivaji abolished Muslim Watan/Jahagirdari system and gave sword in hand of every one including Bramhins and Mahars. How many know that Holkar's of Indore were Dhangars and Gaikwads of Varodara kurmis/kunabis?

History should be peoples history.

Re: # 140:

Very insightful! We all read history of his-story written by darbari gandus such as Romilla.

Nobody tells us who was the architect of Tajmahal or how was it financed.

We are not told how much was the average land holding around 1000AD and how much was it in 1757 in different areas where Muslims ruled. And how much was it by 1857 and 1947?

Why casticism is probably least in Maharashtra? Why there is strong saint parampara in Maharashtra compared to rest of India? What is the historical reason?

How Indians could have avoided minoriticism of Abrahmic religions? What could have Indians done socially so that people cared for their own "real" growth, their mohalla's growth, their language's growth and their state's growth before any thing else? How could we have reduced people's religious identity? We should plan and act so that a Marathi Dhondu can be Muslim in faith just as he could be Jain, Buddhist or Hindu. Dearabization and deAbrahmization of Abrahmic faith needs to happen for tranquility in India.

Re: # 141 for HP and his dog;

try this link and see how you go; I have nothing more to add to this board

http://baithak.blogspot.com/2005/11/dr-mubarak-ali-ameera-javeria.html

Re: # 134
Common Indian learned to hate Pakistan not from books but what he saw from May 78 onwards...

Ans: Correct. History books in India tries to hide islamic barbarism in all possible corners ( courtsey Romila Thapar and her moslem slave Habib...and set of croonies from JNU). When people read literature written before 1947( Tagore, B C Chatterjee ...) Islamic barbarism is exposed to large extent. Kashmir, couple of wars had helped aggravate the problem. Pakistan/Islam is now exposed. So, it is not exclusive to India.....( One of the toppers in most hated nations in USA,UK...).

If there is ONE bharti/hindu interactor I admire, it is Sanatani ... because his highly opinionated views are as solid as mine, and not uninformed like the hindoo cockroaches nor shallow as our murtids!