Is this Amnesia or Dementia?

Re: # 83 I replied you last time: that khauf (derived as khawfoon) are used in the sense of fear we ordinarily understand. However, other words like Taqwa and khushu are under-translated as fear too by many translators who struggle with these concepts in English. The total numbers of these 3 (+ one occasion of rahab) which are translated as ‘fear’ in Yousaf Ali are 274.

Out of these 274, there are about 14 times when khawfoon is used in the ordinary sense of fear (as you will have no fear etc). Most of rest are in taqwa or khushu. However, I have to double check the occurrence as there may be some derivative which I may have missed. Right now, I have no time in hand, but I intend to spend some time to write an article on this topic.

The point however which becomes absolutely clear is that so called fear of Allah is taqwa and khushu as explained earlier, not just fear in the ordinary sense, but more as awe, reverence, devotion, righteousness and mindfulness.

Let me repeat, there is no possibility of confusion that khauf is different from taqwa or khushu. In relation to God predominant use in Quran is taqwa and khushu, not khauf.
In my intended article I will provide references to the verse nos., though I already have clearly shown the point under discussion.

Regarding your other post, please know that when pagan Mecca was conquered by the Prophet, everyone was forgiven. There was no bloodshed, there were no rapes, there were no looting. An example history has not shown in any other conquest. That is an example of exalted moral standard to which Islam aspire. Anyone who violates that do not abide by the true spirit of Islam.

Regarding transcendental and physical, my issue with Muslims (I am a devoted Muslim)is that they too are turning / have turned mental constructs into idols. When we say idolatry we mean idolatry - there is no transcendence in idolatry, either of physical objects or of mental constructs. If there is, then it is not idolatry. Topic of another article.

Quin,

I asked you last time -

How many times does "Khauf" occur in Quran?

Answer me now.

I want you to get into a debate with an idolator like me!!

Re: # 79

"Before Islam people in Arab used to worship physical deities."

That is absolutely false Islamic propaganda.

Pagans do not worship "physical" deities. The distinction between "transcendatal" and "Physical" the body/spirit, the matter/spiritual, the earht/heaven has always been there.

This is a false propaganda by Islamists in order to justify violence , rapes and genocide against the pagans.

Re: # 80, You are not the only one who evades the truth when mirror is held up.

Issuing statements like you gave, without showing how it is so, does not prove anything.
Did Prophet come to teach you Quran? Quran is an open book for everyone to read and understand.

Can you deny it says in 2: 62 “Those who believe and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.� And this is not my translation and it is not taken out of any context. This is full verse. (You have not shown where I took anything out of context)

If you don't want to benefit from Quran by understanding its real message, it is at your own loss. I know you have said you won't interact, but think about the following (and may be Allah will guide you):

What in your heart and in your mind comes when you think of Allah? How you perceive Allah. Think carefully about this and see if you are not doing shirk. If you have turned Allah into a 'mental idol' or 'virtual idol' then you are committing shirk. If you think you comprehend Allah then you are negating Quran.

And lastly, if you think the second hand knowledge you appear to have, is coming from the Prophet directly, then think again. Example, your translation of 3.7 is only one of the many interpretation of this verse. This is not Prophet giving you interpretation. So really think again.

(If Prophet spoke with you and taught you directly, that is a different matter. Then I would want to learn from you.)

PS; the word is context, not contest.
Second, ill-wishing others is sickness in itself. I pray Allah give you ‘shifa’. Ameen. Prophet never ill willed anyone, especially not one sincerely seeking truth. I wish you best.

Re: # 79 Unfortunetly for you my friend. Quran was explained to us by our prophet salalaho alehe wasalam who does not lie and your words against his are meaningless ...

best lie is the one mixed with some truth... thats what you are doing ... you are misguided by this book because of perversion you have within you ...

you are a twisted man who takes verses out of contest and not even full verses only parts of it to twist it into your interpertation.

I pray to Allah that he save us from people like you and may he increase your sickness ameen

Any ways for people like you Quran 3 7 It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

This was my last comment on this :) any thing you say after this... come back and read this verse thats answer to all that you can say :)

Re: # 76: The words in our earthly hands are frail tools. The truth lies beyond words. Yes, I may have not been totally clear in my last sentence. In particular the way I used Shakespeare’s quote may have given wrong impression. Thanks for bringing that up. What I was referring to was people like laddu who are not critical of their thoughts, who draws conclusion without doing any research and don’t know what really Islam is about; when such minds use thoughts without being thoughtful, their thoughts will make things look good or bad. The reality may be different but their thoughts will make it look different.

Regarding meaning of ‘submission’ I totally agree it is total submission to Allah. But tell me how you perceive Allah. Is it a deity? If it is a deity then why Quran says, “He is above all comprehension� (6: 103); And if it is a deity do you submit to a deity? Exactly what Quran came to warn us against?

Do you know that in Quran ‘la ilaha’ occurs 37 times but out of that 36 times it is ‘la ilaha illa huwa / ana / anta….� (2: 255; 21:25). Only once and once it says ‘la ilaha ill Allah’. (47.19). I was surprised by that because the later version is the corner stone of Islamic belief. Why it did not occur more often than the former. One interpretation is so that people don’t turn Allah into a ‘conceptual deity’.

Before Islam people in Arab used to worship physical deities. Quran talks about Transcendent Omnipresent Incomprehensible God. Why we Muslim wants to turn it into a conceptual deity. If we start worshiping a mental construct – as most Muslim seems to be doing – then are we any different than people worshiping a stone construct? (again, worship translated from ‘ibad’ is a huge debatable point from which ‘ibadat’ is derived – being God’s ibad- termed as slave-being its worshiper or being its slave are they same?)

Lastly, the conviction that only one religion is true goes against teaching of Quran. Very extensive topic that cannot be covered in this interact. Very briefly, there has been such spiritual giant of Islamic tradition as Rumi who time and again show the inclusivity that is unsurpassed. They were hard core believers in Quran and Prophet’s message. Quran itself has many references of accepting others’ beliefs as valid e.g., 2: 62 “Those who believe and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.� (identical repetition 5:69).

To understand Quran and essence of its message, we need to go beyond words and fathom its meaning as I often say like a scuba diver. On the surface, we may see divisions, on the deeper depths all is connected.

Re: # 77, excellent first hand information, impressive, thanks for such informative post

Saturday, August 23, 2008 By Absar Alam

ISLAMABAD: “Bring in the Holy Qura’an,� Asif Ali Zardari ordered one of his aides at the Zardari House on the evening of August 5, 2008 when he realised that once-bitten Nawaz Sharif was this time reluctant to believe in his word of mouth.

A copy of the Holy Qura’an, lying in the bedroom of Asif Ali Zardari was brought and given to Nawaz Sharif. “Let’s take an oath on the Qura’an this time that I will fulfil all my promises,� Zardari offered to convince Sharif.

A taken-aback but hesitant Sharif told Zardari, “I don’t want to swear on the Qura’an for political objectives but I would expect that all promises would be fulfilled.� Despite what Sharif said the Holy Qura’an was placed on the centre table lying between the two leaders, as guarantor, and an agreement was penned. Each leaf of the seven-page, hand-written agreement was signed separately both by Asif Zardari and Nawaz Sharif.

It was agreed in that written pledge that Musharraf would be impeached, and the judges would be restored according to the Murree Accord immediately after Musharraf’s ouster, and the decision for the next presidential candidate would jointly be taken by Asif Ali Zardari and Nawaz Sharif. This joint presidential candidate would be a non-controversial, non-political candidate from a smaller province.

This first agreement, made in the presence of the Holy Book, formed the basis of the second, two-page neatly typed agreement which was again signed by the two leaders on August 7, 2008.

The changes between the first accord, guaranteed by the Holy Qura’an, and the second typed version were that the words “or if he resigns� were added after the word “impeached�, and instead of “immediately� words “within 24 hours� were added and instead of “Asif Ali Zardari and Nawaz Sharif� the words “coalition partners� were added.

The quick nomination of Zardari for the president by the PPP CEC and the fixing of Sept 6 as presidential election date confirmed the hunch that the PPP is no mood to restore the judges before the oath-taking of the new president who, most probably, would be Zardari although the CEC has left it to the sweet will of the co-chairman to accept or reject it.

Zardari’s nomination has generated a stir among the political, social, bureaucratic, and security circles of the capital. It would be for the first time that a single person would run the state, the government and all its organs, as well as the country’s biggest political party.

If elected, president Asif Ali Zardari will also be Chairman National Security Council, who will be armed with the authority to appoint the Chairman Joint Chief of Staff Committee, Chief of Army Staff, Chief of Air Staff, Chief of Naval Staff, provincial governors, Chief Election Commissioner, Attorney General, and the powers to dissolve the National Assembly and Provincial Assemblies under Article 58-2(b).

Compared to Musharraf, Zardari as president will be much more powerful as he will also control Pakistan’s biggest political party bequeathed to him by Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto along with all her political and monetary assets.

After having a hand-picked, “yes� prime minister, compliant judiciary, presidential powers under 17th Amendment and the biggest political party which would wait for his nod for any action, Zardari is set to become more powerful than Musharraf or any politician in Pakistan would ever have dreamt of.

Re: # 69 "Nothing was meant to bow to this or that thing. Topic of my second article. As Shakespeare said, “It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so�"

I disagree with only this part of what you posted may be becuase I do not know in what context you mean this, until you post that article.

What Shakespeare said sounds like result of a sad case of deductive logic, like saying : there is no light as long as I am blind, or world did not exist until my birth, there are no colors because I am color blind ... it sounds impressive but its analogy is like some one high on drugs in his own beautiful little world thinking all is perfect, a fake world, falsehood, just like your conjecture based on deductive logic.

Presuming what you will write from past posts here is what I have to say :

In Islam: All religions are not true, all is not God, light is not darkness, darkness is not light, good is not bad, hell is not paradise, pleasure is not anger, satisfaction is not unrest, serenity is not anxiety and bad is not good. We have been told in Quran and by our Prophet things in detail and we are satisfied both in spirit and in person.

Any ways what i wanted to say is when a non muslim is trying to explain Islam they should also give their new religion a new name, It hurts muslims when they see people mutilating our religion. In Islam submition is total to Allah.

I hope you understand :)

Tahir,Masadi, HP & Rabia
Your last line is open ended. Do we cling to Hope and wait for something to happened, or do we ferment into a pressure group that patrols the system and farms opinions for the next elections.

The deal is already done. Its a bridge game in which all hands are visible. Zardari holds the 58(2)b, NRO, deletion of graduation clause, a dagger in the only potential opposition in Punjab through a governor and sleeper partners like PMLQ, MQM, JUI, ANP and FATA wallas. NS as I always maintained has been effectively foxed. But Nawaz hold the biggest Ace ie the PUlSE of the people with some odd dukkies in a free for all No Trump Game.

I had a long talk with two of his stalwarts yesterday. They maintained that though they had serius doubts about Zardari, they extended a cooperative hand for the cause of Pakistani People as also to play a role from within to nuetralise what Rabia Wasti calls, 'Parental Guidance' from outside and what masadi would term as Neo Imperialism. There game plan is simple. Wait and let everything precipitate. Sitting in opposition, they will render cooperation to the Government to overcome socio-economic crises. They said, they will not have a destabilising influence.

On HP's Linear graph, I reckon we fall from 55% to 45%.
Now is not that what you mean?

Levitate, guru,

wow. Can the guru levitate? Or is levitate gonna school him to the art of levitation?

Guru ji,

Although yourself, Mohar bhai, and Laddu bhai are all fine people that are united in one cause (hehehe), I want you to know, that this muslim does not hate you. Have a good weekend, think pleasant thoughts.

hurricane out

Re: # 72 they never should have installed internet in the mental institute you are posting from...

Shantic hatred, anger and retardic behavious is not because of what west is doing to Shantic folks. Even a month before 9/11/2001 in our neighborhood this is what happened. If university students in US behave like this then what kind of Shantic upbringing is it? Is there something rotten at the core of Shantic spirituality? Is Shanti, aka Islam in Arabic Arabian KKK?

Two first-years assault Hindu Student Council
Melissa Hayes, Staff Writer
Issue date: 10/8/01 Section: News

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Shouting ethnic slurs, two Rutgers College first-year students went to the Hindu Student Council meeting in the Busch Campus Center around 10 p.m. on Sept. 26. In a report released Thursday, Lt. John O’Neal of the Rutgers University Police Department identified the two students as Asim Ali of South Plainfield and a juvenile Union City resident.

O’Neal said the argument was taken outside, where the two students began verbally assaulting a 23-year-old University alumnus and an HSC member. The alumnus exchanged words with the boys and then went to his car parked in Lot 53, across the street from the campus center.

Ali and the juvenile followed the alumnus to his car and continued to exchange words with him. Ali punched the alumnus in the face and began threatening him with a box cutter, making slashing motions close to his face. Ali and the juvenile fled then scene, O’Neal said.

The RUPD responded to the call. The alumnus was treated on the scene for minor facial and neck injuries from the blow he sustained. Ali never used the box cutter.

Ali and the juvenile were arrested by the RUPD later that night, O’Neal said. The juvenile was charged with disorderly conduct and released on his own recognizance. Ali was charged with disorderly conduct, assault and possession of a deadly weapon; his bail was set at $5,000, which he posted. Ali’s trial date has not yet been set, O’Neal said.

O’Neal said he was unsure as to why the two Rutgers College first-year students went to the meeting and neither gave a reason for starting the confrontation.

Members of the HSC were unavailable for comment.

Re: # 70 guru munnay you have no spiritual caliber because you follow conjecture. Your last reply was food for your ego and slow poison for your atma.

You are one unaware smartypants tardoo who does not have undersatding :)

Levitate,

"thank you for your retarded enlightenment"

Thanks Allaha you found it enlightening.

In North America mental retardation is subsumed into the broader term developmental disability, which also includes epilepsy, autism, cerebral palsy and other disorders that develop during the developmental period (birth to age 18).

I am very sorry for what I wrote causes epilepsy in you. I wrote for common human. Sorry I forgot to write statement of caution that the following few sentences are for human consumption and contemplation and not for fanatic recent converts, more Arab than Arabs Shantic bipeds from Indian subcontinent.

BTW which sentences or words caused epilepsy in you. Let's revisit it in pseudo code format:

When "that" ie Tut (u sounding like u in 'but') in Sanskrit

is called the Lord,

then

Ahankar/Ego creating separation/Dwait is created

and the so called believer becomes the Slave.

According to non-idolators "that" is formless, speechless, characteristic-less.

In the patriarchal society "that" is generally addressed as Father, Pita etc.
In the matriarchal society "that" is generally addressed as Mother, Ma etc.

In the slave society "that" is generally addressed as Lord. This causes separation from "that". The faithful then treats himself as a slave. But that means he succumbs to the "shit" that Lord is bigger, better and controller of him. He starts thinking that he is born sinful. Such a person is an easy pray to the economic order of slavery, exploitation, murder, rape, plunder and enslavement of "other" people. Thus Abrahmic legions are formed.

For Dharmic folks "that" is not only formless, speechless, characteristic-less,

but also

all pervading and timeless.

That means it is also in YOU and in every thing you perceive and sense that includes idolators whom non-idolators consider non-believer.

Tat WaM Asi!

If you look at your epilepsy with compassion and not be too hard on yourself it will subside slowly.

I hope you are en-lightened more to levitate higher.

Sorry, I do not have too much time to interact with you. Ladduji and Pinkuji are more erudite in these matters. They will help you levitate still higher. I pray to "that" for your speedy recovery from epilepsy.

Take care!

Re: # 59 taqwa and khushu is exclusively used as for being mindful of God and being cautious to stay on the right course. Khauf is exclusively used for such as fear of worldly things, an example I gave earlier.

There is no possibility of confusing the two concepts in the original. When I get time I will write an article on that, where I will show count for each of these words.

Also, many are totally confused about the concept of 'submission'. In the same way as they are confused about 'fear'. Again, being brief, as I don't have time right now,

'submission' is to identify the egoistic part of your nature/your self/your psyche and bring into in alignment with the universal Tao.

Nothing was meant to bow to this or that thing. Topic of my second article. As Shakespeare said, “It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so�