Taliban: The Golden Goose And The Deadly Noose

Re: # 254 Masadi: what makes you think you can take on 8000 Talibaboons?

These are all academic discussions. But yes while it is true that the Talibaboons may cause bigger damages than Bombay, but why do you assume that all of them will cross over. When the 6.5 lakhs Pak army with all the modern weapons could not cross over in over 60 years, what makes you think these thugs with AK47s will be able to do it. Are you saying the Pak army is weaker than the 8000 thugs, and you are silently wishing the Talibans to do what the pak army could not do.

Actually the Pak army can also neutralise them very easily, but it does not want to do it as the Taliban is its own creation for strategic depth.

I would go by your own argument that "these fat belly mullahs will stop at the first halwai's shop they encounter,"

Masadi: Almost all discussions between Indians and Pakis starting on any topic ultimately veer to the statement you made. This statement is not new to the Indians. Get it right and we are prepared for it. All the wars fought after 47 amply demonstrate it.

Do you realise the damage the 8000 Talibaboons would cause to the Pak crities on the way before they reach the Indian borders.

Re: # 243 Pew

"Should India offer political asylum and refuge in response to the inevitable clamor that will come from the Pakistanis when the Taliban enter Lahore and Pindi? Or should India cut the rope and let them wither on the vine?"

Offer asylum and refuge ....Never....
But in actual if things go so bad, infiltration cannot be prevented. Secondly all the maya, lalu, mulayam, paswans, CPIs, congress will fall over each other to welcome them. Wish that never happens.

Re: # 244 Urstruly

"they are the last line of defense between you and Taliban sword"
True and False. See how fast things change in this world. True becuase till just a few months back, Pakistan used to incite fear in most of the Indians as an enemy, but now it is to be seen as a line of defense against the Taliban. False because the pak army and Pak population would like to divert the attention of the marauding Talibans to India to save themselves in the process. In fact that is why they were started in the first place (Stretegic depth in reverse order).

"Do you think Taliban will stop at Lahore??"
They can capture the tribal inhabitated mountaineous areas of Pakistan, but I have serious doubt on their effectiveness in the plains and cities. They can cause increased fear and attacks and law and order problem in the Pakistan part, but not beyond the international boundary. They may succeed in some terrorist attacks but not on the scale of running over as in Swat or Buner to enfore their writ on the common people. They would stand out of the general population to be handled effectively specially in the Indian territory.

Masadi sahib:

May be you prefer to debate vegetables, then vegetables do not read, write or speak.

Re: # 257

Masadi sahib:

WHy must you connect the wrong dots. Was your childhood so deprived that you could not play connect dots game.

'...If you take the US to be equal to other nation states in the post WW2 world, you are being a mere damn fool..."

Which part of what I wrote that you are connecting your brain to the above?

"...The US was involved in Afghanistan because it was the backyard of the SU, it had nothing to do with any dominoes theory..."

Which part of what I wrote that connected in your mind Afghanistan in 1980s to 1950s domino theory?

"...US fight against Japan had nothing to do with that either..."

Which part of what I wrote that connected in your mind Afghanistan in 1980s to 1950s domino theory?

Or is it simply that you cannot be shown the mirror about foolishness in your arguments? Get over it Masadi mian, please?

Re: # 220
Khyber...
Legal framework is enough....India has very good Human Rights organisation...now, the implementation part may be slack...

Re: # 215
Riaz haq...

So,
India composed Korun to breed violence into Paki/musla mind...
India sponsored and created islamic infrastructure in Pakistan...
India started jihad in 1947/1948 (aka DAD and Tribal invastion of Kashmir)...
Above all, India has not allowed pakistan to settle for democracy........
List is very long...
what to do? Complain to UNSC...at least you have one master (China) there...they may take some positive action.....

Anil responds with another worthless post that does not address one point I raised. Mian sahib, you have locate "facts" historically and socially in order to understand them. If you take the US to be equal to other nation states in the post WW2 world, you are being a mere damn fool. The US was involved in Afghanistan because it was the backyard of the SU, it had nothing to do with any dominoes theory. US fight against Japan had nothing to do with that either. The fact is that most of these socialist 'revolutions' were indigenous stuff that was presented by the U.S, just in order to maintain a war without end into soviet conquest of the world, when the damn fools had their own tentacles all over the globe.

TNITC masadi

I received this from my younger brother in Karachi (I had asked about how things are, given the taliban-in-swat issue):

"... Well in Karachi few schools like Karachi Grammar etc. received threats from Taliban to stop the co-education and dance parties etc. From another resource (ex I.G. Sind Police) we have come to know that there are around 50 talibans (or suicide bombers) in Karachi, waiting. Karachi might see a blood bath between May and July. Another rumor is that MQM will have a clash with Pathans on 12th May. Altaf Hussain said openly that we have to take care of our mosques, houses, and pubic places ourselves - which means start gathering ammunition to fight talibans.

By the way yesterday (i.e. Sunday) government has started action against taliban in Swat areas because taliban were crossing the line. Pakistan military head also said that we are ready for all kinds of threats to Pakistan whether internal or external. So hopefully it will be taken care off. ..."

Re: # 253

Masadi sahib:

You are silly with your ignorant narrow perspective. Economy and its security is a key foundation of a nation-state. Therefore, as usual you are just cooking up baseless nonsense. Look up the definition of Nation-State to remove your ignorance. Otherwise please read “End of Nation State� by Keniechi Ohmae, former Prime Minister of Japan, in case you want to read more and certainly beyond 7th century and Mills.

“Interests� have rarely been confined to geographical boundaries. Had they been, you have been a ranting Rama instead of Muhammad. It is good to learn about reality, before it hits you.

“…Further your use of the WW2 US fight against Japan to say that it was the same alliance as the US using the proxy Mujahideen is BS….�

These are your words not mine. I simply introduced you to Vietminh, when they were “used� to fight Japanese. Much as Taliban was used to fight Soviets. In case you further help, fighting Soviets in Afghanistan, and fighting Japanese in S. E. Asia were strategic, abandoning them was tactical, and were dropped cold turkey. In one case your glorious leaders to dream of “strategic depth�, and in other case to restore colonies to Europeans. Vietminh had one the finest generals of all time, Gen. Giap to become the only Asian power to beat both European and American power. Your glorious leaders dreamt a wrong dream that is now their nightmare. Owning problem is the first step in finding solution, so please own it. Pakistani Taliban is as Pakistani as you are, and both are equally fanatic in their beliefs.

“…This is a nonsense cops and robber analysis…�

Masadi Mian, repeat after me, sometimes that is all is needed. Sheikh Chilli like thinking is unnecessary. I suggested to you to read Shatranj Ke Khiladi or watch this movie. Hopefully, then you may realize that Sheikh Chillis lose everything even though they think have won.

“…When the US invaded Iraq it sought to invite and provoke private Jihadist groups in its definition of Iraq as the "central war on terror"….�

Nothing Nobel Prize winning idea in the above. The above is your statement from plagiarising mine that people like you are so predictable and can be made to behave exactly the way they want and still think they are acting. Now how much Sheikh Chilli one can get. Please Masadi sahib.

“U.S. does not want to defeat Taliban..� Are you again copying me?

Only difference is that you think that you can beat the world in this game. Please give up your own version of Pan-Islamic dream. The world will be very different by the time this is all over. Many possibilities exist from bombing back to stone age to Pakistan becoming South Korea. The choice is yours and other Pakistanis.

The U.S. has strategic interest to create a Chaotic Buffer and provide money, Viagra and whatever to maintain this buffer, if the latter is not possible.

Please give your behind some rest and trying to use grey matter to think, and finally please do get over it.

“Yeh aapke khelne ki cheez nahin hai. Chot lag jaati hai, khoon nikal aata hai.�

pew writes "Yes, I do. They'll be MADE to stop at Lahore" "

Your dhoti pehalwans couldn't stop a handful of thugs in Bombay what makes you think you can take on 8000 Talibaboons?

You cannot. You'll wet your pants before reaching the railway tracks..

TNITC masadi

Anil writes "I have always maintained that America and the west, like any other nation had interests (friends people have)."

Anil don't try to fool people with this nonsense. America and the "West" is unlike other nations and its "interests" are not geographically restricted like other nations. Further your use of the WW2 US fight against Japan to say that it was the same alliance as the US using the proxy Mujahideen is BS. The U.S. was there to protect colonial interests after Japan was defeated, while its desire was to not fight the soviets directly in Afghanistan, rather create conditions where they were bled and then bail.

Then he writes "Its interest is to prolong and confine Islamic terror in that part of the world, until it is defeated. This kills several birds, Islamic terror does not spill into oil producing area, and second is to keep world’s largest standing Muslim army busy in it. Iran Iraq war had been there to understand what I am saying. Final interest is to never allow nuclear weapons to pass over to terrorists.."

This is a nonsense cops and robber analysis. When the US invaded Iraq it sought to invite and provoke private Jihadist groups in its definition of Iraq as the "central war on terror". Was its purpose not to spill that to the oil producing region? When it talks of Iran, is Iran not an oil producing region? Any fool knows that in order to mainstream a group is to get it grassroots support. U.S. drones are doing that for the so-called Taliban. They are no so blind so as not to understand this, as well as the fact that it is a breach of international law to violate a country's airspace and kill its citizens in this brazen fashion. The U.S. does not want to 'defeat' the Taliban, it wants to give them nation states to build them up as a foe so that its farcical 'fourth world war' continues in tune with its structural requirements.

America is not only 'waiting and seeing' how the forces within Pakistan work out, it is in active participation through its many commanders and diplomats visting with the Pakistanis, through its drone attacks, through its media hypes about Pakistan falling and through active sponsorship of suicide attacks in Pakistani cities- which has been its warning to those civilians that don't agree with their diplomats, more suicide bombings if you don't agree with us, that is more of a threat than anything, and America and CIA jackals were involved in the recent assassination of BB.

Get a goddamned education,

TNITC masadi

South Asia:
1946 - 1 country
1947 - 2 countries
1971 - 3 countries
2009 - looks like atleast 4
2020 - How many?

Re: # 245

Masadi sahib:

If by education you mean foul language – you take the cake and eat it too.

I tried to point to the liberation movements and how they are shaped. Interesting reading for you would be Mao’s Long March, how a failure lead to the success. I have always maintained that America and the west, like any other nation had interests (friends people have). My Vietcong analogy seemed to have worked on you, that your rush to blame America for today’s Taliban is just as outrageous. Notwithstanding earlier contacts and support (till Japanese were defeated) to Vietminh (precursor to Vietcong.

Let me also say that America will shop for its interests and deal with it even if it is Taliban, Army or civilian government. This is very cold cut. Its interest is to prolong and confine Islamic terror in that part of the world, until it is defeated. This kills several birds, Islamic terror does not spill into oil producing area, and second is to keep world’s largest standing Muslim army busy in it. Iran Iraq war had been there to understand what I am saying. Final interest is to never allow nuclear weapons to pass over to terrorists. In this cold hearted calculations, which is right $30 billion that Pakistani civilian government asks),$15 b that has been collectively committed so far or a number in between. The best way to replace itself, is through creation of chaotic buffer due to major trust deficit. Therefore, money will go to Taliban also.

I do not see a class war, or Vietnam war in it. During Musharraff time, Taliban had support of ISI and army, but the U.S. did not have any control over them. It now wants to have leverage over some Taliban. This is more tactical rather than strategic. Defeating the Soviets was strategic, even then the creation of Taliban was tactical for the U.S. After all, if Fahrenheit 911 is to be believed Taliban has been hosted at the White House. This initial support is akin to Ho Chi Minh’s Vietminh (precursor to Vietcong) seeking support from the U.S. President Truman.

Real question, “is Talliban a grass root movement� needs to be asked. My assessment is that it is a grass root level movement. It can gain strategic advantage over all other players and deliver all accept (trust deficit on nuclear) to America or the west. So who can deliver on this trust deficit? There are only two players – civilian and democratic institutions, or a combination of Talliban and Army (as was in the past). Ideal would be all three, as that would be the most peaceful for outsiders. That can explain Taliban in swat, and it retreating like an obedient dog from Buner by calling of Army / Civilian. Has that ever happened before. I think not, else Lal Masjid would not have happened.

My assessment is that Taliban gets no strategic support from the U.S., whatever may have been historic reasons. If Zeemax and Urstrily to be believed only a fraction of what they say. Taliban is going to be a force to reckon in Pakistan, whether democratic institutions survive, of Army/Taliban comes in power. For America it is given, it would wait and see how these three forces play out and how America will achieve three strategic objectives, namely – chaotic buffer to replace it, busying the largest standing Muslim army, and Nuclear weapons.

The world is least interested in manufacturing revolution there, especially that close to oil and sympathizers in the world’s largest standing Muslim army. Just take a chill pill and get down from your high horse of blaming America / its elites for all evils.

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." --Albert Einstein

Mullah brain was little ok when mullahs were living on left over of others,when Gen.Zia started pouring money in their pockets,they even forgot about 60 virgins and got greedy,now they wana compete with Pakistani elite and feudal politicians .
Pashto poet KHUSHAL KHAN KHATTAK said long time ago,''How can I say my prayers behind a mullah,who is living on my left over piece of bread.''