Auntie

Re: The article and the replies

Human emotions do tend to go haywire when we suddenly realize that we have aged. Not because we may be in denial that we are not young anymore. But probably because we realize that we`ve lived a large part of our lives and there`s only so much time left to do all the things that we wanted to do and had put them off that we can do it later. It happens because when we are finally done with school, we get busy with our lives so much, especially when we are trying to establish ourselves at work and at home, that we forget all about all those things that we wanted to do and wanted to be. That sudden realization can have a chilling and shocking effect to the tune that people can get scared about the whole thing. Well, its part of life and we`ve to accept it like everything else we do.

Now that I have bored you completely with the psych stuff. Here`s the thing that I really want you to know. BE COOL! It`s so not cool to keep poundin` n hammerin` on the same point dudes. I mean come on, the article`s makin` a point.

Aliya, you`ve written about the real life stuff with a bit of exaggeration in regards to the appearances of the characters but that`s all right. I mean that`s how you treat a subject like this. With humor.

To the critics: As far as the stereotyping goes, hey, so what? Don`t get so serious about it. Why do we have to dissect and disscus every word of every article in such a serious manner. Life`s tooooo short for this kind of stuff. Claim your place in the great scheme of things and stop showing off that you too know a couple of things. I have put that 1st para in just to make this point. Visit MuziqPakistan.com and have some fun. And ah! watch a little bit of the Simpsons. Take care!

Rehan.

P.S. And in case you are still not persuaded by the eloquence demonstrated above, please move to the West Coast. Yup! I agree, people here are more relaxed and less obsessive about trivial things than people on the East coast. And West coast people have a better sense of humor.

No offense to anyone personally as I am very comfortable when it comes to generalizations and steretyping. But only when I`m making them. So please do not generalize and stereotype other people especially if you are from the East coast. One more thing. Thank you for reading such a crappy reply to the end. You must have a good sense of humor. Have a nice weekend all!

Re: Aliya

To me, age is a state of mind. Although youngest of the many siblings, when I was young, I never felt young. I suppose that had to do with the environment I was brought up in. Now that I am old, I don t feel--hence, act--old. My duty is to carry out my prime responsibilities. Little else matters. I have not changed in the past twenty years. I will not change in the next twenty.

You write, and express yourself, exceedingly well. Should I look forward to reading another story from you? Soon, I hope?

Re: Syed Ahmed

I may have been too harsh to you in my swift attack. It is perhaps your lack of realization that, although of the same heritage, Pakistani Muslims and the Indian Muslims have drifted apart in their culture, behavior, and outlook since the partition. I have observed Indian Muslims to be timid and submissive. Malise Ruthven, in his book Islam in the World has compared their behavior to be similar to that of the Eastern European Jews before the Second World War. Pakistanis, generally, are aggressive, outspoken, candid, and extrovert. Indian Muslims, generally, are exact opposite. Provocative? I think not. Confrontational? Yes.

Re;Syed Ahmed

Oh I forgot to mention,I brought up eating disorders because of their relatioship to image concsiousness in a society. Sorry, should`ve made it clear.

Re; Syed Ahmed:

Ah what the fear of homework can do.

Listen I am glad you are not going to spend any more mental energy on this discussion, it is surely not worth it...as for your style, I have no business studying it, but since you brought it up, a word of advice from your aunty:.One must never lose sight of facts while opining, otherwise one loses credibility. the LOL escape route doesn`t completely absolve one of the need to sound coherent.

Don`t mean to bug you, but couldn`t help. Hope you`ll forgive old aunty for taking this liberty.

Thanx for reading.

Now Now Ms Alia chill out, my response was a mere observation and should be considered a biased perspective of this desi. Also my comments are completely tangential to the article in question.
Complusive disorders have little relevancy wrt my comments. :-) My style is inherently provocative,
but not necessarily confrontational - it was not my intent to initiate retaliatory repartees.
( LOL)

``Deriving some sense of self worth through external barometers e.g make/model of the car, children s educational achievement, popularity with the desired gender, is quite normal for socially well adjusted people all over the world, including Pakistanis.``

On the contrary, Ma`am, what you state is true for the post-pubscent years where social acceptance is a major component of self-worth. I think most people in the american culture do not derive self-worth from such barometers, self-worth comes from more important factors such as family, profession and goals. Ostentious behavior is indicative of deep rooted feelings of insecurity
of a people as well as a culture, - and in sensible circles it is frowned upon. In general I have found Indians to be far better adjusted in this regard than Pakistanis. Perhaps modesty & humility are a stronger component of their value system. :-)

Re: Godot/ slink-Thanx for your help.

Re: Syed Ahmed: Thank you for writing.

By calling this the ``erstwhile pseudo-intellectual environment ``, you are implying that chowk is no longer pseudo intellectual. Its good to know that chowk has outgrown it s pseudo intellectual phase, glad I wasn t around during that time. I am also glad that through no effort of mine, the article had the wonderful effect of boosting ego, would hate to disparage folks with my writing .

Deriving some sense of self worth through external barometers e.g make/model of the car, children s educational achievement, popularity with the desired gender, is quite normal for socially well adjusted people all over the world, including Pakistanis . One hopes though that like our auntie, most people outgrow the intensity with which they respond to those barometer readings during their younger years .

I am not sure how your bi coastal study of Desi attitudes fits into this replies section, perhaps a seperate article about ``Desi upward mobility and associated attitudes, a bi coastal comparison`` may give a clearer picture.

Oh, and feel free to do as much introspection as is necessary, just remember to enjoy yourself now and then .

Aliya, just one thought: touché mon ami, c`est l` magnifique et une petit crie d` coeur ! C`est la vie !

Sorry I took so long to find this. Loved it, because I can relate to resisting the reality of getting old ! People call me ``sir`` and I want to screem out that I am not older than you !

Re: Godot

Candor always has a bite to it. My attitude was neither judgemental nor self-righteous - you misunderstand me , I am inclusive in the group I critisize. Nonethless, that does not change the facts, - if social commentary is ostracised, so be it :-). Introspection has never been our cultural strongpoint.

Your story fits in well in an image conscious culture, - particularly upwardly mobile ( class/ credential conscious) baby boomers and generation Xers`s ( if the terms are applicable to Pak society). Not being raised in Pakistan, I am quite amazed and times perplexed at the self-worth one derives from external social conditioning. Even in an erstwhile pseudo-intellectual environment like the Chowk, one finds such ego boosters embedded either overtly or covertly in their articles or replies.

( Tangent warning)
Our cultural perceptiveness is so cursory that at
times, we have more in common with the Hollywood crowd than middle America or Pakistan. Another bi-coastal observation, desis expatriates on the East coast tend to be far more image oriented than the desis on the west coast. Perhaps it has to with the regional culture as well, - maybe economic mobility is easily accessbile in the West, or is it egalitarian Western culture based on rugged individualism or the pervasive abundance of of over-educated and under appreciated desis :-). Well Maybe it just the valley.

Re: Syed Ahmed, Reply 14

You, holier than thou, are judgmental and qiuck to find faults with others. You look in the mirror and see perfection! You probably have never heard of, nor would not understand, self-analysis. Pseudo-intellectual? You must be one if you are reading Chowk! Ego booster? I hope you have ample evidence, Mr Syed, that you are a direct descendant of the Prophet who was born some 1400 years ago in the desert of Arabia.

re zman:why is it ``especially pathetic coming from a muslim``? what makes a muslim? does it matter when you`re reading something?

what is especially pathetic coming from a muslim?

so what if her description of a typical desi differed from yours? this is a work of fiction..did you not read the disclaimer?

well done aliya.

*sheesh *

shandana

Well written, indeed. Those who are threatened, annoyed, or simply irritated by your story are insecure and they just don`t get it (not unlike most other desis). If you haven`t already read it, read Hanif Kureshi`s ``With Your Tongue Down My Throat``. Brilliant short story it is. Also, check out ``Growing Up In Cosmic Harmony And How It Sucked`` by Ptolemy Tompkins. Very, very good true stroy.

Did I mention white men? perhaps acouple of men felt offended by my description of the Desi, and thus assumed auntie`s exclusive admiration for the white male.

As a solution ,while reading, feel free to replace the Desi guy`s description with the following:

``he was the usual Desi hunk, with broad shoulders, great hair and a phenomenal sense of style.``

BTW, seriously:Thanx for reading and taking the time to write in the replies section.I am truly grateful.

Aliya

Re Aliya:

... the magazine

Get over it. By the way not every desi is like your description ``He was the usual Desi man, dark, short, thin, with glasses that seemed to accentuate his unimpressive mustache, dark hair parted in the middle, and a shirt that should`ve been retired by now.``

And not every ``White`` is like what you are picturing! I hate desis who can`t accept themselves for who they are and have this slave mentality. It is specially pathetic coming from a Muslim.

You could have put across your point in a better way by choosing the right words. People percieve you the way you want them to percieve you!