Is the new CE any different?

The writer has made a good analysis but suggested no altrnative. Perhaps the alternative is too somber or `Gambhir` to divulge. We have the example of Bangla Desh where democracy is working alright. It is Pakistan, the remaining one, where no system can work properly. No government had ever been changed here with vote of the people. Perhaps it is the very name`Pakistan` which is doing the mischief as God has said in his holy book, the Quran,`` Do not call yourself `Pak```. Should we not change it to `Foujistan`?

Mohajir.

Be happy in your world.

I am also very happy to see you happy.

http://cnn.com/ASIANOW/time/asiabuzz/2000/03/30/sd/

Guest of Dishonor

General Musharraf probably wishes he had stayed home

By APARISIM GHOSH

Poor, poor Pervez Musharraf. The Pakistani dictator has had a very frustrating fortnight. First, he saw an old ally growing very chummy with an even older enemy: the PR success of U.S. President Bill Clinton`s tour of India set dentures gnashing in Islamabad. Then, Clinton dropped in on Pakistan just long enough to scold its generals for stunting the growth of democracy and for their support of militant Islamic groups operating in Indian-held Kashmir.

But the zinger came this week, on the first leg of his four-nation tour of Southeast Asia: in Kuala Lumpur, General Musharraf had to endure a sermon on democracy and justice from, of all people, Mahathir Mohamad! Never wanting in gall, the Malaysian Prime Minister told his visitor that democracy, for all its flaws, is the best form of government. (Mahathir, remember, has never found it necessary to preach that line to his neighbors--the dictatorship in Cambodia, the communist regimes in Vietnam and Laos or even to Musharraf`s soul brothers, the military junta in Burma.



Mahathir is also reported to have expressed the ``hope`` that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, the man Musharraf deposed, would get a fair trial. It`s not known if he offered the services of the government lawyers prosecuting his former deputy, Anwar Ibrahim, to advise Islamabad on the conduct of fair trials.

Then, adding insult to injury, Malaysia`s Foreign Minister, Syed Hamid, let it be known that Musharraf`s visit had taken place at Pakistan`s insistence, and that the dictator had not been invited to Kuala Lumpur. Ouch!

If the general`s recent run of poor luck holds through the remaining legs of his tour, he will be (a) lectured in Singapore on the loving treatment of opposition parties, (b) advised in Indonesia on preserving sectarian and religious harmony, and (c) counseled in Brunei on curbing corruption and the importance of elections.

Poor, poor Pervez Musharraf.

Mohajir #277

You are rightly pointing out the plight of stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh.

Not only that there is plight of Pakistanis in Pakistan.

So is the plight of Indians in India, which is evidenced in recent flood when I saw first hand what is happening in India.

If you agree that Pakistan should first solve the problem of stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh, before talking about rights of Kashmiris.

I will ask you to use the same measurement, that India should first resolve the problems of Indians living in poor condition, before embarking on suppressing the rights of Kashmiris.

Mohajir #277

You are rightly pointing out the plight of stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh.

Not only that there is plight of Pakistanis in Pakistan.

So is the plight of Indians in India, which is evidenced in recent flood when I saw first hand what is happening in India.

If you agree that Pakistan should first solve the problem of stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh, before talking about rights of Kashmiris.

I will ask you to use the same measurement, that India should first resolve the problems of Indians living in poor condition, before embarking on suppressing the rights Kashmiris.

It is not just India and the US that are treating the Chief Executive differently. Malaysia and Turkey also are doing so.

Malaysia made a point to state that PM was not invited.

Turkey`s PM is putting travel plans to Pakistan on hold (but is visiting India).

-arun gupta

http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/BC21Df03.

Caught between here, there, and nowhere

By Tabibul Islam

DHAKA - It`s not a shortage of eligible grooms, but an acute accommodation problem that`s the reason behind a large number of women remaining single in the cramped refugee camps for Pakistani nationals in Bangladesh.

Hard pressed to raise money to build even an extra room, refugee parents are in a bind. There are some 20,000 unmarried girls in the 65 camps spread across the country. These were set up to shelter Pakistanis who remained after the creation of Bangladesh in December 1971.

``Where shall I live with my wife if I marry right now?`` asks a 30-year-old man, pointing to the tiny one room in which he lives with his parents, and eight siblings and cousins in a camp at Mohammadpur.

Sheikh Md Jalaluddin owns a small semi-permanent room in the camp. His two daughters are of marriageable age, but he cannot afford to build two rooms for them. Each would cost about $700. ``Where can I get so much money from?`` he laments.

These refugees, who are called Biharis since they are originally from Bihar, India - having migrated to what was then East Pakistan in 1947 - have been interred in refugee camps in the hope of being repatriated to Pakistan. But successive governments in Islamabad have stalled on the issue, unwilling to risk a backlash against a fresh flux of outsiders in Sindh province where a majority of refugees from India had settled following the creation of Pakistan in 1947.

Nor are the Urdu-speaking Biharis are welcome in Bangladesh. Though the majority of refugees in the camps were born after 1971, they are still seen as having sided with the Pakistani army during the country`s liberation war. Over the last two decades they have tried all possible ways to draw international attention to their plight, taking to the streets, holding demonstrations and hunger protests. ``Our life is hell, the animals are better than us,`` says a very bitter Jalaluddin, a refugee.

Tanvir Adnan, a young Bihari thinks there`s no future for young people like him in the camps. It`s worse for the girls, he says. There`s every chance of their going ``astray``, he adds. Another refugee said young women in the camps are targetted by sex-traffickers and pimps. There is a hint that sometimes the girls leave willingly because of the bleakness of life in the camps.

Ejaj Ahmed Siddiqui, chairman of the one of the groups representing the refugees, says his organization offers monetary assistance for the marriage of poor Bihari girls. ``But our capacity to help is limited,`` he adds.

The Bihari refugee camps are squalid. Piles of garbage lie unclaimed, everywhere. Sanitation is deplorable and water supply is scarce. Residents have to queue up for hours to use the toilets. Tempers run high, and fights and scuffles are common sights as people hurriedly try to get ready for work. Many of the younger people have found jobs in the garment and sari-weaving factories, handicraft units and other small establishments. But many more are involved in the illicit liquor trade, and in petty crime.

Older refugees blame Pakistan for the mess they are in. After four rounds of repatriation of some 175,000 Biharis between 1974 and 1992, the rest have been left to languish in camps, they say.

Refugees under 35 years are increasingly reluctant to share their parents` hopes of migrating to Pakistan. Born in Bangladesh, they want to become Bangladeshi citizens.

A 40-year-old Bihari with two children said two generations of his people have led ``sub-human`` lives in refugee camps awaiting repatriation. ``Our children are now studying in Bangladeshi schools and speak Bangla. Bangladeshi culture is now our culture. We have no intention to go to Pakistan if the Bangladesh government gives us citizenship, voting rights and other facilities,`` he says determinedly.

Some refugee leaders are now publicly making this demand. Addressing a press conference at the National Press Club, Dhaka, on March 5, Sadakat Khan, president of a refugee youth organization, said they would ``prefer`` to stay. ``We prefer to rehabilitate and settle ourselves in Bangladesh deviating from the earlier stand of repatriation which seems a closed chapter with no prospect at all.``

Urging the government to accept them as nationals, he said Pakistan has betrayed them. He said that while Pakistan provided food and shelter, and even arms, to some 4 million Afghan refugees during the communist-rule in Kabul, it ignored the Biharis in Bangladesh.

``Pakistan is testing nuclear bombs and weapons and also providing help to Kashmiris fighting against India. But it is a matter of shame to say that Pakistan cannot afford the burden of its own citizens stranded in Bangladesh,`` said Khan.

umairr,

doesn`t it bother you even little that while the whole pakistani nation is obsessed with the rights of the kashmiris (who are not pakistani citizens), thousands of pakistans`s own citizens are living in appalling conditions in refugee camps in bangladesh waiting for repatriation? why don`t the advocates of human rights (like you) ever bother to comment on that? why is getting kashmiris their rights more important to pakistan than admitting its own people in the country?

People seem to be making a very big deal out of Clinton`s visit to Pakistan. I doubt anything is going to change in the India Pakistan situation.

For obvious reasons, the US view is now tilting towards India. For fifty years, it was either neutral or slightly tilted towards Pakistan. In all these cases, the tilt was not based on a moral stance. It was, and is still, based on the long term interests of the US. In the first case, the US needed Pakistan (and later on the Afghan mujahideen) as an ally against the Soviets, so the US was pro-Pakistan. Now the US needs India as an economic market, as well as an ally against China, so it is pro-India. In either case, the US stand is US-centric and not South-Asian centric.

Had Clinton really wanted to solve the Kashmir problem, he would have pushed himself and the US as a mediator. Pakistan and the Kashmiris have already agreed to this. He could have put enough pressure on India, or offered India enough incentives, to agree to this also. This would have been a real big step towards solving the Kashmir problem. I am quite disappointed that he sidelined any solution to the whole Kashmir issue, since that is what is causing all the problems between India and Pakistan. He did give Pakistan a lecture on this. Some of the advice was quite good, however he needed to give a similar lecture to India, as well; which he did not do. I doubt there will ever be a one-sided solution to this problem, so it is pointless to just lecture to one side (specially since the side that gets lectured to seems to change every decade).

The real funny part was that not only Bill Clinton, but some of his minor aides were also lecturing to Pakistan. This is the height of arrogance, if you ask me. It is one thing to have the President of the US lecture Pakistanis, it is completely another to have every Tom, Dick and Harry of the under-secretary variety give their authorative views through the Pakistani media. I hope Pakistanis have a bit more self-respect than that.

Ironically, he lectured Pakistan on democracy (it was good to see that he hinted at the previous govts. being corrupt), and then took off to Oman to meet representatives of the Gulf Councils; all of whom represent undemocratic dictatorships and kingdoms. I think if the US really wants to be viewed as a world leader, it needs to back its foreign policy with uniform and consistent morals, and not with one-sided sugar-coated threats. Threats work on leaders, but they do not work on the general populace of countries. For example, Clinton`s arguments about India and Pakistan freezing their respective nuclear programs is not going to have any effect on the people of India and Pakistan until the US effectively announces that it will get rid of its own nuclear weapons.

Another point that needs to be mentioned is that Clinton did not address a joint Kashmniri organization. Considering the fact, that it is their land and people that are under dispute, I think this was required. I am not quite sure why he did not do this. How the Kashmir problem can be solved if the Kashmiris themselves are not taken into account.

Just like there are no military solutions to the Kashmir conflict, similarly I don`t think threat based solutions to the India Pakistan Kashmir conflict will work. The only solution that will be effective is the one that has the three concerned parties sitting at a table (with more than likely at least one mediator) discussing the issue. Since India does not have any intention of pulling out its 500,000+ troops from Kashmir, and Pakistan does not have any intention of suppressing the Jehad groups, and the Kashmiris do not have any intention of stopping their freedom movement, the talks will have to take place in the current environment without any pre-conditions from any party. Otherwise I do not see anything changing, anytime soon.

On the whole I am quite disappointed by the Clinton visit. I was hoping for much more. He came in, threatened India on nukes, threatened Pakistan on nukes and Kashmir, and then took off. Are India and Pakistan any closer to a solution on Kashmir or on nukes, after his visit. It doesn`t seem like it.

Zeemax #273

I have heard a rumor that Zille Ilahi William Jefferson Clinton is a Harvard Professor on Pakistan Chair.

Complete text of Pres Bill Clinton`s speech to the people of Pakistan (Mind you it`s for the PEOPLE of Pakistan) Musharraf couldn`t stop this direct live address. Clinton had already given Mutt the Bullcrap this slime deserved in the Presidency where Clinton had gone to meet Tarar the constitutional president of Pakistan, where Musharraf came wagging his tail .. the gate crasher!

Pres Clinton :

As-salaam-u-alikum

It is an honour to be first President of the United states to address all the people of Pakistan and the first to visit your country in more than thirty years.

I am here as a great admirer of your land`s rich history of its centuries of civilization that stretches long as the Indus river.

I am here as whose own nation has been greatly enriched by the talents of americans of Pakistani descent.

But most of all, I am here as a friend, a grateful friend who values our long partnership, a concerned friend, who cares deeply about the future course of your country, a committed friend who will stand with the people of Pakistan as long as you seek the stable, prosperous, democratic nation of your founder`s dreams.

More than half a century ago, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, shared that vision as he addressed Pakistan`s constituent assembly. ``If you work together``, he said, ``in a spirit that everyone of you is first, second and last a citizen with equal rights, priviliges, and obligations, there will be no end to progress you will make.``

The Quaid-e-Azam ended that speech by reading a telegram he just received. The message expressed hope for success in the great work you were about to undertake. That message was from the people of the United States.

Despite setbacks and sufferings, the people of Pakistan have built this nation from the ground up, on a foundation of democracy and law. For more than fifty years now, we have been partners with you. Pakistan helped the United States open a dialogue with China. We stood together when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Our partnership helped to end the cold war. And in the years since, we have co-operated in the fight against terrorism. Our soldiers have stood together in missions of peace in every part of the world. This is your proud legacy - our proud legacy.

Now we are in the dawn of a new century and a new and changing world has come into view. All around the globe, a revolution is taking hold. A revolution that is tearing down barriers and building up networks among nations and individuals. For millions it has made real the dream of a better life, with good schools, good jobs, a good future for their children.

Like all key moments in human history, this one poses some hard choices. For this era does not reward those who struggle in vain; to redraw borders with blood. It belongs to those with the vision to live beyond borders for partners in commerce and trade. It does not favour nations where governments claim all the power to solve every problem. Instead, it favours nations where the people have the freedom and responsibility to shape their own destinies.

Pakistan can achieve great things in this new world. But real obstacles stand in the way. The political situation, the economic situation, the tensions in this region. They are holding Pakistan back from achieving its full potential in the global economy. I know I don`t have to tell you all this. This is something you know, something you have seen. But I do have hope. I believe Pakistan can make its way through the troubles and build a future worthy of the visions its founders - a stable, properous, democratic Pakistan, secure in its borders, friendly with its neighbours, confident in its future. A Pakistan, as Jinnah said, at peace within and at peace without.

What is in the way of that vision? Well, clearly, the absence of democracy makes it harder, not easier, for people to move ahead. I know democracy isn`t easy; it certainly is not perfect. The authors of my own country`s constitution knew that as well. They said that the mission of the United States would always be, I quote, ``to form a more perfect union.`` In otherwords, they knew we would never fully realise our ideals, but that we could keep moving closer to them. That means the question for free people is always, how to keep moving forward?

We share your disappointment that previous democratic governments in Pakistan did not do better for their citizens. But one thing is certain, democracy cannot develop if it is constantly uprooted before it has a chance to firmly take hold. Successful democratic government takes time and patience and hard work. The answer to the flaw of democracy is not to end democracy but to improve it.

I know General Musharraf has just announced the date for local elections. That is a good step. But the return of civilian democratic rule requires a complete plan, a real road map. Of course, no one from the outside can tell Pakistan how it should be governed. That is for you, the people of Pakistan, to decide. And you should be given the opportunity to do so. I hope and believe you want Pakistan to be a country where the rule of law prevails. A country where officials are accountable. A country where the people can express their points of view without fear. A country that wisely forsakes revenge for the ruins of the past. And instead, pursues reconciliation for the sake of the future.

If you choose this path, your friends in the United States will stand with you.

There are obstacles in your progress including violence and extremism. The Americans have also felt these evils. Surely, we have both suffered enough to know that no grievance, no cause, no system of belief can ever justify deliberate killing of innocents. Those who bomb bus stations, target embassies and kill those who uphold the law are not heroes. They are our common enemies. For their aim is to exploit painful problems, not to resolve them.

Just as we have fought together to defeat those who traffic in narcotics, today, I ask Pakistan to intensify its efforts to defeat those who inflict terror.

Another obstacle to Pakistan`s progress is the tragic squandering of effort, energy and wealth on policies that make you nation poorer but not safer. That is one reason we must try to resolve differences between our two nations on nuclear weapons. Again, you must make the decision, but my questions to you are no different from those I posed in India. Are you really more secure today than you were before you tested nuclear weapons? Will these weapons make war with India less likely, or, simply more deadly? Will a costly arms race help you to achieve any economic development? Will it bring you closer to your friends around the world, closer to the partnerships you need to build your dreams?

Today, the United States is dramatically cutting its nuclear arsenal. Around the world, nations are renouncing these weapons. I ask Pakistan also to be a leader in non-proliferation in your own self-interest, to help us prevent dangerous technologies from spreading to those who might have no reservations at all about using them, to take the right steps now to prevent escalation, to avoid miscalculation, to reduce the risk of war.

As leaders in your own country have suggested , one way to strengthen your security would be to join the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. The whole world will rally around you, if you do.

I believe it is also in Pakistan`s interest to reduce tensions with India. When I was in New Delhi, I urged India to seize the opportunity for dialogue. Pakistan must also help create conditions that will allow dialogue to succeed. For India and Pakistan, this must be a time for restraint, for respect for the Line of Control and renewed lines of communications.

I have listened carefully to General Musharraf and others. I understand your concerns about Kashmir. I share your conviction that Human Rights of all its people must be respected. But a stark truth must also be faced - there is no military solution to Kashmir. International sympathy, support and intervention cannot be won by provoking a bigger, bloodier conflict. On the contrary, sympathy and support will be lost and no matter how great the grievance, it is wrong to support attacks against civilians across the Line of Control.

In the meantime, I ask again, will endless, costly struggle build good schools for your children? Will it make your cities safer? Will it bring clean water and better health care? Will it narrow the gaps between those who have and those who have nothing? Will it hasten the day when Pakistan`s energy and wealth are invested in building its future? The answer to all these questions is, plainly, no!

The American people don`t want to see tensions rise and sufferings increase. We want to be a force for peace, but we cannot force peace. We can`t impose it. We cannot and will not mediate or resolve the dispute in Kashmir. Only you and India can do that through dialogue.

Last year, the world watched with hope as the leaders of Pakistan and India met in Lahore on the road to better relations. This is the right road to peace for Pakistan and India and for the resolution of the problems in Kashmir. Therefore, I will do all I can to help both side to restore the promise and the process of Lahore.

A few months ago, we had a ceremony at the White House to mark the end of Ramadan. An Imam shared a message from the Quran, which tells us, that God created nations and tribes that we might know one another, not that we may despise one another.

During the years of my presidency, I have tried to know the Muslim world, as part of our common humanity. I have stood with the people of Bosnia and Kosovo, who were brutalised because of their Muslim faith. I have mourned with the Jordanians and Morrocans at the loss of their great leaders. I have been privileged to speak with Palestinians at their National Council in Gaza. Today, I am proud to speak with you, because I value our long friendship and because I believe our friendship can still be a force for tolerance and understanding throughout the world.

I hope you will be able to meet the difficult challenges we have discussed today. If you do not, there is a danger that Pakistan may grow even more isolated, draining even more resources away from the need of the people, moving even closer to a conflict no one can win. But if you do meet these challenges, our full economic and political partnership can be restored for the benefit of the people of Pakistan.

So let us draw strength from the words of the great Pakistan poet, Mohammed Iqbal, who said, `` in the midst of today`s upheaval, give us a vision of tomorrow.``

If the people of Pakistan and South Asia are driven by a tolerant, generous vision of tomorrow, I believe this region can become a garden of peace. I know enough about the ingenuity and enterprise and heart of Pakistan people to know that this is possible.

With the right vision rooted in tomorrow`s promise, not yesterday`s pain, rooted in dialogue not in destruction, Pakistan can fulfill its destiny as a beacon of democracy in the Muslim world, an engine of growth, a model of tolerance and anchor of stability.

Pakistan can have a future worthy of the dreams of the Quaid-e-Azam. If you choose that future, the United States will walk with you. I hope you will make that choice. And I pray for our continued friendship, for peace for Pakistan - Zindabad.

Ends

Shankar you are very right.

India kills in tens of thousands on high moral grounds.

One of Indian is asking Kashmiris to cross the border to Pakistan. Because Kashmir is part of India.

Old wisdom of letting a camel in tent to the point of having the whole tent occupied by camel and person in tent pushed outside is probably written after seeing Indians in past also. A people cannot change their nature.

Nathuram Godse assassinated Gandhi & called himself a true patriot. His mentors, the RSS, thrive on paranoia & hatred, believing that hindus should`nt live under the hegemony of muslims. As we see here on chowk, Pakistan has their counterparts of Godse.

Bilalji, people who have the courage & wisdom to encourage an alternate discourse will always be regarded as ``internal enemies`` by people whose mind set is so entrenched with hatred & paranoia that you are a threat to them.

Keep up the good work. Millions on both sides of the border silently agree with you. People like you give me hope that there is a future for our descendants in the subcontinent.

Zeemax:

Why didn`t you write the full name of Clinton.

The prophet Aala Hazrat Zille Ilahi William Jefferson Clinton.

Dear Krashid,

You have threatened Bilal. A peceful person like him. I will not argue over your motivations but I have to tell you this. I will kill you with my bare hands before you will ever raise a finger on him.

Rgds.

Bilal, KRashid,

What has Clinton said today ? He has said Pakistan better give up Kashmir otherwise it`s a confirmed failed state.

Ref my manifesto of I don`t know when. !

Rgds.