Residue of a Spent Time

RR #34:

I liked your matter-of-fact approach ----[What I`m about to say now is a very controversial and touchy subject.]

(and am aware this is generally within the confines of the mores under discussion -- though it wasn’t the original intent:)

I shall check out the sites mentioned later. They look interesting. What this caveat indicates merely is that I am shooting from the hip ---- or from memory!

Muta’ah or temporary marriage addressed a physical need when men used to be away from their homes for long periods of time in war or trade leading caravans. It ‘regularized’ physical relations.

Nikah being a contract (shame on those who only recognize Magna Carta 1250something to be THE cornerstone of westen democratic trends) has these essentials --- two willing parties-- a man and a woman --- mutual agreement of responsibilities --- witnesses --- meh’r --- sort of financial guarantee or gesture from the man towards the women.

Muta’ah has two more essentials --- a fixed time frame and a guarantee by the male to extend and assume full rights and responsibilities to any child borne of that contract!

Because of the human tendency to abuse this license became a cause for licentious behavior and perhaps that is why the jurists from the Sunni branch frowned and banned it. The Prophet (saw) and Caliph Omar argument does not fly here ---[Shia argue the Prophet never did revoke it and since he didn`t, no one can do so after him.] --- for this simple reason. The Prophet (saw) taught and practiced Divorce overwhelmingly in a certain fashion. I think it went something like this. No matter how many times the husband uttered the word ‘divorce’ it was considered as once only. There was a cooling off period between first and second divorce utterances or delivery. And elders of the community got involved to explore all possible avenues of a reconciliation. Thus when all efforts failed a divorce decree was considered final.

Caliph Omar changed all that by decreeing that henceforth ( think it was the second or third year of his Caliphate) three utterances of the word divorce would become final and binding on both parties. Thus he DID consider the situation and change the modus operandi from the Prophet’s. To be fair to him there were hints in letters just before his death that he regretted his original decision and was inclined to restore the former method.

My one criticism of Muta`ah is why is it a one way street. If you know, please tell me why is it confined to men only?

One final note. We must, at all costs, avoid falling into the trap of blaming everything on the mullahs. If anything, the major portion of the blame for the present status-quo or the increasingly hard line adopted by the orthodox fundamentalists rests on us --- those of us ‘of the book’ who can read but don’t!
regards,

temporal

PS: Nice to see you back :)

temporal yar we did have an article ``Sex Everywhere`` on chowk some time ago with a lot of discussion in the replies on the subject. I agree with you that folks in Pakistan+India have imposed a code of behavior that negates both Hinduism and Islam when dealing with sex. Nikah literally means intercourse in Arabic. In Islamic literature, the word `Sulb`(manhood) and `raham` (womb) are used casually in describing from whose you-know-what so and so was born.

This conservatisation of sexuality in South Asia is purely cultural and inspired by both local and British influences. Like the old India, in early Islam the need for sex was considered a natural thing and a good thing at that.

What I`m about to say now is a very controversial and touchy subject. In the early days of Islam the introduction of temporary marriage or fixed-time marriage was to acknowledge this human need. Sunni and Shia disagree whether the permission was revoked by the Prophet himself or by the 2nd Caliph. Shia argue the Prophet never did revoke it and since he didn`t, no one can do so after him. The same science of Hadith that both use favor the Shia argument heavily, though.

(For a contemporary perspective on the subject please read the online version of the book ``Marriage and Morals`` by S.M. Rizvi at http://al-islam1.org/m_morals/. For further reading please see ``Temporary Marriage in Islamic Law`` by Sachiko Murata at http://al-islam1.org/al-serat/muta/. Also see ``Woman and Her Rights`` by Mutahhari at http://al-islam1.org/WomanRights/)

Sunni argue that the very idea promotes sexual hedonism as the boy and girl after puberty are free to make temporary marriage contract without the need for witnesses or Qazi. Shia point out that it is a Sunnah and a legitimate Islamic solution to today`s problems faced by youth as the marriage age is delayed to mid 20s and even 30s and that young people should not have to suffer sexual repression due to economic or social problems as it inevitably results in psychological problems.

In any event, you won`t find either the Shia or Sunni even familiar with the concept in South Asia. They don`t even know that such a thing even exists. Well, they won`t acknowledge it any how. What does it say about South Asia as a region? What holds back even the Shia, who are ready to battle if you divert the traditional route for a Muharram procession, from practicing their own belief? (As compared to the Iranian Shia who promote the idea even in schools to both boys and girls and distribute free condoms, too. They are a theocracy where women are supposedly oppressed. Can you imagine this happening even in the most liberal of democracies in South Asia?) It`s a mystery to me as to what are the causes for such inhibitions in this region when it comes to acknowledging our human nature?

Take care,

Rehan.

Re: Scout #29

I can`t make very accurate observations about Hindus v. Muslims as far as sexual liberation goes. And neither can I make any observations about Pakistan. What I can do is relate to you my experiences in Indian society. Especially as seen through arts & entertainment.

India is getting exponentially liberated. Used to be, half a hint of Zeenat Aman`s titty through a wet sari sent all Indian men scurrying to the theater restrooms. Those days are gone! You couldn`t say the word `sex` out in public. Now actress nonchalantly say stuff like, ``I am sexy and I am going to use it to my advantage``.

No one discussed homosexuality openly before... now gay-rights is a strong, organized movement. Many music videos show women subtly touching and grinding each other exploiting the mother of all sexual suggestions. That would have been a complete no-no before. Kissing in public was unheard of. Now you see it all the time.

Needless to say, the urban are more liberated than the rural. But I think one can safely say that across the entire cross-section of Indian society.... collars HAVE loosened.

Sadhna #28:

You painted all over the canvas. Mine was limited. I aired some thoughts over the experience this side of the border and invited comments from others about the other side. My focus was limited to Desi mores and behavior. Wasn’t advocating promiscuity or profligacy just more open-ness and less retentiveness.

Your comments are universal in nature and beyond the present frame. In your summation in para 2. it appears we are not on the same page of the book!

When I wrote , ‘Let me focus on Pakistan specifically for now. Indian feedback and perspective appreciated. Sadhna? Others?’ I was aware of the past --- Khajurao, Puri, KS etc. and the miniatures as mentioned by Happy and you (though not aware of the Portuguese/Goan spin that you added Happy)--- I had a feeling that the surviving depiction were elitist and not mass based ---- though I am still waiting for confirmation --- and as for shock value --- quite redundant in my book ---- I certainly did not introduce that angle. To sum up ---- a little bit more open behavior but not base or vulgar. But couching them in such terms I am also aware of the difficulties of the task --- ultimately it is a conundrum --- with too much generalization, personal taste, even whims thrown in. Thanks for your input, though!

love,

t

PS: That ‘zippered’ sari from another board is very intriguing. Can you describe it? Am only aware of one where the pleats are invisibly mended so the novice wearer can put it on in a jiffy.

About desi sex culture:

Hindu temple architecture depicts very vividly the kind of attitude the society had about sex. The culmination of the depiction of erotica in sculpture is considered to be the 80 odd temples of Khajuraho. These were constructed around the 10th & 11th centuries. Very kinky stuff! Boy-on-boy, Girl-on-girl, bestiality, you name it!

Vivid and open depiction, description & discussion of sex continued thereafter for centuries. About the sub-continental Muslim culture and their attitudes towards sex... search the web for `ancient Indian erotica` or `mogul erotica` and you are sure to find a rich array of explicit mogul paintings. The mogul paintings are not nearly as kinky as the sculptures on Khajuraho but they show some pretty nasty things, also these paintings are at least 4 centuries later! The toning down of public depiction of sex is one thing but we can all pretty much guess what kind of things went on in the Harems!

Then the Brits showed up and promptly started clamping down on all the native customs that they thought to be uncivilized. Including liberal sexual attitudes.

Interestingly enough there is a cult like following of Indo-Portuguese pornography. Search the web... you will find some very entertaining stuff. Apparently while the Brits were busy clamping down on desi porn, the Portuguese India with Goa as the hot bed flourished and became a hub for Indo-European porn. Again funny how Goa continues to be a party town!

PS: When I mentioned Indian songs, I meant the older ones :-).

the happy one #26, ``. I read somewhere that the desi society (with its traditions of Kamasutra and what not) was a sexually liberated one to begin with but started developing taboos due to Judeo-Christian influences. It`s very ironic therefore that now as the sub-continent gets progressively more liberated, it is once again due to western influences. Maybe we are just a naive and impressionable people?``

THat`s an interesting concept. But I don`t know if this desi sexual liberation relates to desi Muslims, does it to desi Hindus?

I am afraid we are, in general, what you say, a naive and impressionable people. Just watch an Indian or Pakistani movie and it`s clear as day.

:)

As for men being excruciating pricks, why should I say something that`s obvious :)

JK

scout

temporal #16

Aapne mujhe yaad kiyaa :-)?
If I understand correctly, you are saying firstly, that desi behaviours and social mores are repressive in inclination, secondly, this cultural orientation and puritanical orthodoxy added to it leads to `mistreatment` of women and thirdly any `shock` value discussion or airing of sex and related issues is always good since its `noble` aim is to dispel this prevailing morbid atmosphere.
Very convenient :-). Its like Vajpayee`s last Independence day speech mentioning the AIDS epidemic and saying that people should regulate their behaviour. ``The Pradhaan Mantri told me not to``:-).

But seriously, India is a land of Khajuraho and KS(as Happy mentioned). I think in older cultures, the sexual urge has found a stable and logical resting place in the scheme of things. There is more pragmatism in acknowledging its `existence`, more thought expended on how and why to regulate it, IMO and less of the `original sin` type of solely guilt-evoking rhetoric.

About social mores and behaviours, I think its a cultural thing about when desis prefer to be reserved and private and when they are unabashedly open. I find non-Europeans, desis too, more open with many feelings in public, affection for their children or family for instance or grief, (if you want to be really morbid, watch mourners. Desis donot hide themselves behind deadpan faces and dark glasses). Desis are also more effusive in casual social situations(according to me). The way I personally look at it is that one doesnot like to throw open to casual bystanders a view of one`s most valuable personal treasures.

Another cultural preference is that of euphemism in articulation of strong emotions. I have always been grateful for the euphemisms in Indian songs, for instance, I had freedom of choice to interpret the words as I wished or knew from say age 4-date. I was never hit with uncompromising sledgehammer or bare-bones expressions. Thats what I call real freedom of choice.

About mistreatment of women, plenty happens where we come from, there is no doubt or argument. But I suspect wives/girlfriends are beaten quite a lot in the West, too. I think there was even a highranking White House official who was once `revealed`? The `date-rape` drug and stalking are also Western phenomena. And ever hear of Tailhook? And the recent incidents in Central Park NY? Lack of repression in society and the `60s didnot help the women caught in these situations. Sex tourism traffic from Europe to Asia particularly targetted at children is very high I suspect from those countries which have legalized pornography or virtually done so. In summary, IMO some measure of restraint (legal/social) is worth something, infact quite a lot. What is culturally acceptable and doable is the question which differs from place to place.

Now, `shock` value: Prime time TV in the West is overflowing with it. I don`t need no more, thanks. BTW, Germaine Greer once said when in India,`` in the US, even a above-seventy woman like Nancy Reagan(who was First Lady at the time) has to dress and look like a bahu``(thats the term she used), so much for sexual and women`s liberation.

(you asked for it:-)).
Sadhana

The happy one #26:

Thought I would acknowledge in public that you are alive and well, though not feeling upto your monicker -- shrug---- at least in this post ;)

---hmmmm---- [....the desi society... started developing taboos due to Judeo-Christian influences....]

This is worth examining. If we trace the origin of these influences to the past two or three centuries then were we more `liberal` before?

rgds,

t

Re: Scout

The very fact that there is an abhorrence expressed by people when sex is discussed here.... The very fact that people question the use of sex for `shock` value (thereby acknowledging its shock value)... is a very poignant indicator of the fact that people consider discussions of sex to be `out of bounds`.

Why?

If sex were `in-bounds`, there wouldn`t be a shock value to it, would there?

Based on what I have read of Chowk`s declared `policies`.... I wouldn`t be surprised if `loosening up collars` as you pointed out is one of the objectives behind this editorial choice.

I don`t know if it`s a matter of religion, culture, prosperity or all of the above that desis tend to be more repressed about sex than their western counterparts. I would too love to see an article that delves into the desi psyche in this regard. I read somewhere that the desi society (with its traditions of Kamasutra and what not) was a sexually liberated one to begin with but started developing taboos due to Judeo-Christian influences. It`s very ironic therefore that now as the sub-continent gets progressively more liberated, it is once again due to western influences. Maybe we are just a naive and impressionable people?

PS: When I read the poem I thought for sure you were gonna say something like, ``Aren`t all men excruciating pricks?`` :)

Re: fairdinkum #22

(lOl)

anamika #23,

hehe

anamika #23:

lol!

And where have you been hiding
this poetic bent and pining?

:)O

rgds,

t



OK, I`ll trade one bad poem

for another with no rhyme

Sex sells and in a bad verse

its appeal is even worse,

apparently - the trick

probably is to say prick

(Excruciating? What can

it mean? Hurtful? Thorn(y)?)

Sex treads on guilt

and religion trades it

The ``nailing``, pain and prick

smell of religion so thick

I wonder no more

OK, I`ll trade one bad poem

for another with no rhyme

Sex sells and in a bad verse

its appeal is even worse,

apparently - the trick

probably is to say prick

(Excruciating? What can

it mean? Hurtful? Thorn(y)?)

Sex treads on guilt

and religion trades it

The ``nailing``, pain and prick

smell of religion so thick

I wonder no more

why the Pope won`t score!

Re: temporal #13

“perhaps the egalitarian liberalism inherent in Islam……………….”

For a moment, I thought you said, “perhaps the egalitarian lesbianism inherent in islam………”

-:) ……..

jonty #19,

You missed my whole point. I`m not talking about what Sylvia Plath (didn`t she kill herself??) thinks sex is, I`m talking about the sex issue (not the act itself) and the taboos/inhibitions/fears in desi people.

The last thing I want to read is a psychomaniac`s erotic mumbo jumbo, and that is exactly what you produced. Sylvia Plath was creative, but most mentally ill people are. :)

t wrote:

``There has to be a impulse associated with buying steel belted, multi-tracking all weather radial tires and the dazzling smile or figure of a curvaceous model perched atop a tire like a slithering tiger. Has to be?----- yes, or else why would advertisers spend millions to tickle that buying impulse in the consumer?``

ok but that might have the impact as far as making me glued to the TV screen for a bit more time ,but would I go out to the market and buy something just because it`s advertisement had a sizling model??? No, certainly!

[this kind of tickling can only make u giggle, not buy something unless it`s something really worthwhile...buying is another thing]

ps: in my earlier post it was candid not canidid[my typing:)]