The Making of a Successful Marriage

Dear Gnomad and Adila:

I appreciate your understanding of message that I have tried to develop. In the beginning, I thought that somehow people from South Asia are smart and more cultured as compared to Americans. The reason being that we have good family values. Now I realize that human being act according to the circumstances. No wonder, that the second generation of immigrants has similar problems in the USA.

Although, I can understand that certain marriages are doomed to fail, I also believe that a large number can be saved if the people analyze the problems.

All of the challeges that I narrated in my article can be faced and solutions can be found. We owe it to our children and society. The children from broken homes have less chance of becoming good citizens and the whole society has to pay for the mistakes.

The root cause of many social, psychological and drug related problems can be traced to broken homes.

If you liked the article, then recommend it to others. This way maybe some people can make their marriages successful.

Mr. Hassan,

Your article was very astute and accurate. As a seventh generation American there is much in what you write that I cannot relate to. However, there is also much that I can.

All of the factors you mentioned do play a part in the strength of a relationship, particularly a marriage. Additionally, I think such a close relationship requires give and take on both sides in order to remain successful. Your comments about people striking back when they are criticized (even mildly) is certainly a universal response. For cultures that do not allow one or both parties to react in such a way, the feelings of resentment may still exist.

I certainly cannot defend the rising divorce rate among Americans (or anyone else) but I think there are other factors as well. I think many bad relationships in the past were tolerated, but were not good. Today, more and more people feel free enough to get out of those bad relationships. And that is a good thing.

As a man who has been married to the same woman for 30 years, I thank you for sharing your insight.

a very good article to read. i also know some people dealing with the same situation that you have mentioned but at the same time people know how to compromise with divorce situation.

Studebaker #131 Thank you for providing the full quote from the Quran on this subject. It clearly calls for basic propriety and decency in matters of sex that applies to both men and women. Not just for women. Given the double standards that prevail in muslim societies, men tend to violate this Quranic injunction with impunity (including those wearing religious beards) while at the same time preaching and applying it well beyond anything the Quran indicates in case of women. The practical implication is that in a muslim society, the issue should be (a) how to ensure men behave decently towards women, and (b) how women can earn their rightful economic independence and freedom. Not the other way round, as is generally assumed when people talk about an Islamic society. I also agree that a democracy, people are free to practice their religion according to the Quran (as you correctly quote from it). Indeed, the use of Islam to support dictatorships in Pakistan (as Zia did, as NS tried to do, and as the ``religious parties`` would like to do) is one of the biggest violations of the basic message of Islam. Religion is something between man and God, and there is no room for priests and even less for ``religious parties`` in Islam.

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Studebaker #124 Your post is a perfect example of what I am talking about in earlier posts which you conveniently ignore. Your views are not based on the Quran: they are based on the sayings of ordinary men whom people like you elevate to the position of gods and prophets. Read the Quran and try to understand the emphasis placed on using the brain that God gave you. And before preaching to women, read what the Quran says about the duty of men in matters related to women: they are to keep their eyes to themselves. Women are then told in exactly the same words to do the same. Get this through your head and you will be on your way to becoming a human being and a muslim.

anika #122 Very well reasoned post. What you are saying is based not only on common sense, but I may add also fully supported in Islam (the Islam of the Holy Quran, not that of the jet-setting money grabbing ``hajis`` or of the male chauvinist hypocrites or the millions of ignorant ones who treat the Quran as a magical thing rather than a book to be carefully read, understood, and applied in one`s daily life). On the veil, the Quran specifically says that women should cover their breasts: any decent person would agree that this is the way it should be, and this also consistent with what you say. The use of the hijab started a few generations after the death of the prophet as is generally acknowledged. And this was a practice that was conveniently adopted from the Zoroastrians and the Constantinople Christians (according to the book ``Battle for God`` by Karen Armstrong) as the practice of Islam rapidly degenerated into kingships where women were treated as cattle.

It is time we started understanding what true Islam is all about, stopped letting the rascals hi-jack it as they have done for hundreds of years: if you follow the dictates of common sense and decency, you will find you are on the right path.

Re: Reply #: 109

``Ironically .Quran ,being a book too says somthing that hindus are fond of quoting as per Arun Shouries interpretation as ``:kill all kafir `` ``kill all Jews`` and...``

Studebaker,

I do not know which verses in the holy Quran talks about killing kafirs (i am ignorant about the teachings of Quran)but i do know that such verses do exist and have been exploited by the likes of Ghori and Ghazni in the past. These people misinterpreted (even misused)the religious text to loot,plunder,destroy temples and so forth. I refuse to believe that any religious text would actually allow killing of non-believers(kafirs as you call them). These teachings have to be seen inthe right context. These were meant for tribals in Saudi Arabia and discouraging idol worship made a lot of sense in that context as these tribals were worshipping wrong prophets and gods. There is really no comparison between what was happening then in Saudi Arabia and India during those times. India already had a religion which was widely popular,backed by powerful symbols,religious texts,interpreted and reinterpreted by sages down the ages. Not one of these sages ever advised against idol worship but all talked about idol worship as a starting point for reaching God (who, as they were never tired of saying, is really formless).

For the muslim invaders and rulers to have destroyed the idols without understanding the faith that sustained the idol worship (and that sustains it to the present day)was wrong. This however does not put the religion into bad light but only the followers of religion. Is Islam bad because Mullah Omar is bad. I do not think so. Seen in the same light Sati and caste system as practiced in India are wrong. The religion itself is however not to be blamed.

Constitution of India is a legal document that has been put in place by the common will of the people of India to address such difficult issues as rights of the underprevileged,women`s rights and so on. It is an attempt to replace religious dogmas and aberrations with a legal document. Is it sacrosanct? Yes and No. In spirit,it is sacred. In reality, it is subject to changes. Indian constitution has undergone many amendments and continues to undergo changes and that is how it should be.

I believe the muslims in India ,for their own good, should reject the narrow confines to which their Personal Law places them and accept the common Civil code. Those that have done so (sikhs,christians)have forged ahead of muslims. They should come out of the ``ghetto`` mentality they are in and join the mainstream. In doing so they are in noway going to lose their identity. The hindus have not lost their culture and identity after 1000 years of muslim rule and still retain it despite sending their children to christian missionary schools (which happen to be some of the best in India). Indian muslims also need to reject the likes of Shahabuddin, Imam Bukhari and root for saner elements. But such changes should come from within the muslim community without any coercion from any quarters.

sridhar

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studebaker #11-?

look, for some reason you find this female`s - whose article you have pasted in here - views on the wonder of the hijab very attractive but a lot of what she says not only makes no sense but just sounds logically wrong.

And why is that? because she`s doing it for the wrong reasons. Her real reason actually comes out between the lines namely `` feeling that one has to meet impossible male standards of beauty is tiring and often humiliating `` She then goes on to give the very salient features of the hijab like not have to fight with your tresses for hours on a bad hair day, which being a woman I have to agree with to some extent ; it would be nice if I simply didn`t have to bother about doing my hair just to go to work/study every day, but if I want to avoid the hassle and just tie a scarf over my head that day, why should I claim religious reasons for doing so - just so I can get credit and approval from the religious right?

She then goes on to complain about how women who don`t wear makeup and shave their legs and expose are somehow ridiculed and put down until they do - someone should just ask her `` who exactly is insisting you do all that? If you can`t be bothered, don`t. If shaving your legs is such a huge problem for you, wear jeans, or long skirts, and as long as your face is basically clean I don`t think anyone is going to throw you out of the room. Exposure isn`t de rigeur for going to work or the grocery mart either. In fact in some work places, too much exposure works against you.``

She then declares `` the hijab is a women`s assertion that the judgement of her physical person is to play NO ROLE whatsoever in social interaction`` Excuse me? NO ROLE WHATSOEVER? I`m all for believing with the Quran that our soul is the most important part of us, but to deny the physical element completely is to deny part of ourselves. Certainly physical beauty shouldn`t be the basis for how we treat others, but I personally would not want to work with or even be with some one who was completely unconcerned with their physical self and hadn`t bothered to groom themselves be it men or women ( letting their stubble grow, not using proper deodarants which A LOT of desis don`t do, wearing messy clothes, unwashed hair , the list goes on - this has nothing to do with personal beauty, just common courtesy for those around you )

Finally in the end she makes this pointless ( it`s completely POINTLESS because civilized self-respecting women DO NOT bare their breasts in public or in any public capacity WHATSOEVER no matter what faith they happen to be, and as for muslim women doing so, the whole idea is just laughable ) assertion that `` women are not going to achieve equality with the right to bare their breasts in public ...... that will only make us party to our own objectification ``

So according to this woman, equality HAS been definetively achieved in a society if you DON`T need to defend your decision to keep your body (as represented by your hair and neck) to yourself and equality HASN`T been achieved if you DO have the right to bare any part of your body other than your face in public( I absolutely refuse to use her ``breasts`` example because in North America women don`t have the right to do that in the open -and that`s they way it should - and will- stay because breasts are basically a sexual body part).

Her argument sounds very kind of one sided to me. Her right to cover is more important to ensure female equality then someone else`s right not to? Why are her rights more important? and why this paranoid obsession that she`s being objectified?

Women will achieve equality when they can wear whatever they like as long as remains within the bounds of decency.

The hijab is not going to be the tool that gives back women control over their bodies - although that`s what the male counterparts of these women would like them to believe. Only societies can do that - by making stricter laws for sexual harassment, and enforcing them so women never have to feel objectified, and the men who do it should know that the onus of responsibility is on them, and they can and will be held responsible if they do it.

Studebaker #117 You note approvingly of muslim women in the US and Canada putting on the Hijab. This represents another distortion of Islam due to ignorance and hypocrisy: The Quranic instructions calls for women not to dress in a manner that attracts attention to themselves. By wearing a hijab these women (they are more often young teenage girls actually) get the attention the attention they would not get otherwise. Or at least they think they do. This is apparent even in the quote you provide approvingly from one of these pathetic individuals: ``I get the whole gamut of strange looks, stares, and covert glances. You see, I wear the hijab, a scarf that covers my head, neck,and throat. I do this because I am a Muslim woman who believes her body

is her own private concern.`` The first part betrays of the quote betrays the reason for the Hijab : to try and get the ``looks, stares etc.`` that she would not get otherwise. The last part betrays the hypocrisy.

Women wearing the Hijab in western countries represent a clear violation of the Quran. This is an indicator of the backwardness and hypocrisy that pervades muslim cultures, not Islam.

Dear All:

I have closely followed the discussions and comments on the Chowk. After a few comments on the topic,the conversations goes at tangents and sometimes ends up in personality clashes. Disagreements are fine as long as they are related to a point of view or a topic of discussion.

Religion and belief are sensitive issues. No one is convinced without understanding or empathy. Pakistanis have tried to portray a picture as if everyone women in Pakistan has all the rights. Indians have projected ideas as if discrimination and ill treatment of women does not exist in Indian society.

I have travelled in India and Pakistan and I know that both countries have similar problems. There are tremendous problems of poverty, population and pollution. The people of both countries especially youth must develop understanding and respect the views and religion of others.

Europe resolved their problems after the second World war. It is about time that young generation of both of these countries realize that

fighting does not solve anything.

Finally, I believe that people from South Asia may not have happy marriage but have stable marriages. A stable marriage is better than divorce. I have seen so many young people who live in poverty in single parent homes. These people grow up as unhappy individuals and take the revenge on the society.

Everyone has right to his or her own opinion and ideas. Develop your own ideas and follow whatever works for you.

Thanks for all input. I enjoyed arguments and counter arguments. Perhaps South Asian can become very good lawyers.