Refusing the Sitara-I-Imtiaz
Pervez Hoodbhoy April 25, 2001
#132 Posted by hassansiddiqi on April 29, 2004 7:27:49 pm
GREAT move Mr. Hoodbhoy! I completely agree with your views.
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#131 Posted by S.P.Wakil on November 17, 2002 3:47:01 pm
Jay #127
I just got onto this board; read only your letter and thought of asking you about something you mentioned.
What is this seetee beetee? Since I also belong to India, where would one find this seetee beetee? Don`t tell me she is a cousin of arrtoo deetoo!
I just got onto this board; read only your letter and thought of asking you about something you mentioned.
What is this seetee beetee? Since I also belong to India, where would one find this seetee beetee? Don`t tell me she is a cousin of arrtoo deetoo!
#130 Posted by jay on May 18, 2001 8:14:56 pm
AAmir,
The following editorial from dawn of today should come to you as a shock, that dowry is very much islamic, and so is dowry killings, this time by the girls father. Know thy pakistan. truth sets you free.
The curse of dowry
ACCORDING to a report, a labourer from Sahiwal killed his 17-year-old daughter, and then justified this horrendous crime by saying that he had to do this because he was in no position to arrange for her dowry.
What sort of society are we living in where so much pressure can be built upon a father that he would rather kill his daughter than go through the hassle of marrying her off? Though this might be an extreme case, proponents of the custom of dowry cannot dispute the immense psychological pressure that builds up on girls as they grow up to adolescence. Families, especially parents, get so caught up with this that they never even think of questioning the warped logic behind this cruel and exploitative tradition. Inevitably, parents, particularly those with low
The following editorial from dawn of today should come to you as a shock, that dowry is very much islamic, and so is dowry killings, this time by the girls father. Know thy pakistan. truth sets you free.
The curse of dowry
ACCORDING to a report, a labourer from Sahiwal killed his 17-year-old daughter, and then justified this horrendous crime by saying that he had to do this because he was in no position to arrange for her dowry.
What sort of society are we living in where so much pressure can be built upon a father that he would rather kill his daughter than go through the hassle of marrying her off? Though this might be an extreme case, proponents of the custom of dowry cannot dispute the immense psychological pressure that builds up on girls as they grow up to adolescence. Families, especially parents, get so caught up with this that they never even think of questioning the warped logic behind this cruel and exploitative tradition. Inevitably, parents, particularly those with low
#129 Posted by AAmir on May 17, 2001 3:30:45 pm
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#128 Posted by Layman on May 16, 2001 10:13:33 am
Kafir K Khan #133:
KKK - your ignorance of Indian history / Hindu religion is pathetic.
``Muslims are creation of Hindus.`` Care to explain?
``Eleven hundred years ago, India was Budhhist - Ashok its Emperor.The Brahmans, the Kashmiris in particular, who were a minority were the most clever kind and manipulative people of all, have tried to divide India into classes, castes and so on. They disunited people against people and brought an end to Budhhism and install their version of ``new Indian order`` with Shankaracharya at the helm.``
1100 years ago, sure there were lot more Buddhists in India, but India was not a Buddhist country. Kashmiri Hindus were not a minority, caste system existed before Buddhism (in fact, Gautama Buddha fought against caste). It was the Bhakti (devotion) movement of Sankara and other reformers than rejuvenated Hinduism. BTW, Sankara was from Kerala in South India.
I could take apart the rest of your post, but I dont see any use. Your post only highlights your ignorance - nothing I can do about it.
KKK - your ignorance of Indian history / Hindu religion is pathetic.
``Muslims are creation of Hindus.`` Care to explain?
``Eleven hundred years ago, India was Budhhist - Ashok its Emperor.The Brahmans, the Kashmiris in particular, who were a minority were the most clever kind and manipulative people of all, have tried to divide India into classes, castes and so on. They disunited people against people and brought an end to Budhhism and install their version of ``new Indian order`` with Shankaracharya at the helm.``
1100 years ago, sure there were lot more Buddhists in India, but India was not a Buddhist country. Kashmiri Hindus were not a minority, caste system existed before Buddhism (in fact, Gautama Buddha fought against caste). It was the Bhakti (devotion) movement of Sankara and other reformers than rejuvenated Hinduism. BTW, Sankara was from Kerala in South India.
I could take apart the rest of your post, but I dont see any use. Your post only highlights your ignorance - nothing I can do about it.
#127 Posted by jay on May 13, 2001 4:02:45 pm
AAMir,
know thy Pakistan
Entry into diplomatic enclave
HAVE you travelled to the Diplomatic Enclave in Islamabad before the sunrise to be first in the queue to apply for a visa? It`s bound to be some experience in these days of good governance. You will be stopped at the police check-post at the entrance of the Diplomatic Enclave just opposite the Foreign Office, and will be grilled by the police. Then you can either pay a sum ranging between Rs 50 if you look well-bred to Rs 300 if you are a taxi driver or a rural person, and then allowed in.
This collection continues even after sunrise, i.e. in broad daylight. All cars with out-of-town number plates are first stopped by a Kalashnikov-toting policeman. The hapless driver is rudely asked to leave his vehicle and walk about 30 meters to the check-post, where he must either prove his innocence, or else pay the required sum.
Can the IG Police Islamabad please do something to restrain the policemen who are harassing citizens and minting money at this check-post! If they have doubts about a vehicle and its occupants, they should check the documents.
PRO BONO PUBLICO
Islamabad
know thy Pakistan
Entry into diplomatic enclave
HAVE you travelled to the Diplomatic Enclave in Islamabad before the sunrise to be first in the queue to apply for a visa? It`s bound to be some experience in these days of good governance. You will be stopped at the police check-post at the entrance of the Diplomatic Enclave just opposite the Foreign Office, and will be grilled by the police. Then you can either pay a sum ranging between Rs 50 if you look well-bred to Rs 300 if you are a taxi driver or a rural person, and then allowed in.
This collection continues even after sunrise, i.e. in broad daylight. All cars with out-of-town number plates are first stopped by a Kalashnikov-toting policeman. The hapless driver is rudely asked to leave his vehicle and walk about 30 meters to the check-post, where he must either prove his innocence, or else pay the required sum.
Can the IG Police Islamabad please do something to restrain the policemen who are harassing citizens and minting money at this check-post! If they have doubts about a vehicle and its occupants, they should check the documents.
PRO BONO PUBLICO
Islamabad
#126 Posted by AAmir on May 13, 2001 4:02:45 pm
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#125 Posted by jay on May 13, 2001 4:02:45 pm
From jang of today
Another international moot on Sindh planned
By Amir Mateen
WASHINGTON: After its controversial conference last year, the World Sindhi Institute is organising another international moot with an even more provocative theme: `Sindh and its Right to Self-determination.`
The star of the show, to be hosted in Washington on May 17-18, is again BJP hawk K R Malkani, the self-styled Sindhi nationalist who stirred a mayhem last year by garlanding Pakistani leaders, including Mumtaz Bhutto and PPP`s Yousaf Talpur, a sash of Indian tri-colour.
From Pakistan, the chief guest is Baloch renegade Attaullah Mengal, who could not make it to the conference previous year because of his illness. Institute`s Chief Organiser Munawer Leghari confirmed the name of Mahmood Khan Achakzai among the list of other speakers.
///As the saying goes, there might be different ways to skin a cat.
Another international moot on Sindh planned
By Amir Mateen
WASHINGTON: After its controversial conference last year, the World Sindhi Institute is organising another international moot with an even more provocative theme: `Sindh and its Right to Self-determination.`
The star of the show, to be hosted in Washington on May 17-18, is again BJP hawk K R Malkani, the self-styled Sindhi nationalist who stirred a mayhem last year by garlanding Pakistani leaders, including Mumtaz Bhutto and PPP`s Yousaf Talpur, a sash of Indian tri-colour.
From Pakistan, the chief guest is Baloch renegade Attaullah Mengal, who could not make it to the conference previous year because of his illness. Institute`s Chief Organiser Munawer Leghari confirmed the name of Mahmood Khan Achakzai among the list of other speakers.
///As the saying goes, there might be different ways to skin a cat.
#124 Posted by jay on May 13, 2001 4:02:45 pm
Hobbyty,/KKK
What is really absent in any of the pak posting here and in other news papers is the diversity of opinions and an unmiststakable refusal to accept the reality.
No one has stated that the continuation of the present policy will not get pakistan out of the debt trap.
No one is asking for the signing of the CTBT, reduction in nuclear and missile program as a way out.
No one is telling that `pakistan`, hasnt delivered anything to the people. Thre is absolutely nothing pakistani, other than the army and the passport. Pakistan exists only in relation to india, now it has been reduced to a stage where it is a geographic region defended by the army so that indian army will not run over. This is a pathetic existance to a nation. Bangladesh came into being because army could not hold it. Once the pak army is defeated by who ever it might be, the lines of fracture that ferozk talks about will become boundary trenches.
Other than hamidm and solitude, I am yet o see a pakistani devoid of the blikers of TNT. No body wants a good life, it is always tinged with the jihadic promise. At last there is a realisation that kashmir and pakistan issue is something fundamental to india, it is a question of life style, we want our policemen with the lathi not with M16 as in pakistan, we want our sadhus to wlk freely, not with armed guards as in pakistani mullahs, the bombings in delhi and various parts of india by the pak jihadists are prompting for a finlal solution, `poorna vijay` may not be just an exercise, could be a prelude.
regards and look for the glow in the dark.
jay.
What is really absent in any of the pak posting here and in other news papers is the diversity of opinions and an unmiststakable refusal to accept the reality.
No one has stated that the continuation of the present policy will not get pakistan out of the debt trap.
No one is asking for the signing of the CTBT, reduction in nuclear and missile program as a way out.
No one is telling that `pakistan`, hasnt delivered anything to the people. Thre is absolutely nothing pakistani, other than the army and the passport. Pakistan exists only in relation to india, now it has been reduced to a stage where it is a geographic region defended by the army so that indian army will not run over. This is a pathetic existance to a nation. Bangladesh came into being because army could not hold it. Once the pak army is defeated by who ever it might be, the lines of fracture that ferozk talks about will become boundary trenches.
Other than hamidm and solitude, I am yet o see a pakistani devoid of the blikers of TNT. No body wants a good life, it is always tinged with the jihadic promise. At last there is a realisation that kashmir and pakistan issue is something fundamental to india, it is a question of life style, we want our policemen with the lathi not with M16 as in pakistan, we want our sadhus to wlk freely, not with armed guards as in pakistani mullahs, the bombings in delhi and various parts of india by the pak jihadists are prompting for a finlal solution, `poorna vijay` may not be just an exercise, could be a prelude.
regards and look for the glow in the dark.
jay.
#123 Posted by kafir K Khan on May 11, 2001 5:36:07 pm
The J strain of Jay and Manoj
``J`` also stands for `JUNGLEE` as J is also for JJhakki which in Uttar Pradesh means `crazy`. But why is Manoj in ``J``. People like you should be bred with a dog then cross breed with a snake twice. The end product of this should be transplanted in a parrots ova. This strain should be mated with a female gorilla so you can make her preganant. Naughty boys, you guys.
``J`` also stands for `JUNGLEE` as J is also for JJhakki which in Uttar Pradesh means `crazy`. But why is Manoj in ``J``. People like you should be bred with a dog then cross breed with a snake twice. The end product of this should be transplanted in a parrots ova. This strain should be mated with a female gorilla so you can make her preganant. Naughty boys, you guys.
#122 Posted by tahmed321 on May 11, 2001 3:03:44 pm
manoj #122 I guess my efforts at trying to educate you have been in vain. You are a stereotyping, ``Indians-good-Pakis-bad`` spouting genius like Jay, and incapable of anything better.
#121 Posted by hobbyty on May 11, 2001 3:03:44 pm
Many Indians on Chowk insist that Pakistan is doomed and they mistaken believe that those Pakistanis who are critical of events and positions the Government of the Islamic Republic takes, agree, that Pakistan is Evil incarnate, a failure and doomed to the ``trash heap of history``.
That India, on the other hand is a Super power.
Pakistan has very many problems, all of them it`s own creation. But the October revolution has begun by telling the truth: `` we have hit rock bottom``. May God bless the patriotic army of the Islamic Republic.
The road to recovery begins by being truthful. And determined. The problems are not insurmountable. Pakistanis built Pakistan by their will and determined hard work will be in their future. Inshallah. May God save us from the politicians and bureaucracy. Every encouragment should be given to free the energies and resources of business and industry, with government no longer in the business of business.
Encouragement should also be given to those who have given religious cover to social backwardness to reconsider their positions. Whereas those who work for God`s light by promoting literacy, fairness (insaf), equality of opportunity and against social degradation should be acknowledged on a national level.
That India is a super power is great news for Indians. Perhaps now a majority of Indians will enjoy at least 2 meals a day, decent housing and a dignified life. Such a day was/is long in the coming and perhaps it will also usher a period of reflection.
#120 Posted by ali1 on May 11, 2001 3:03:44 pm
RE: 122 Manoj
Dear Manoj,
Our text books have J for Jalim and not Z for Zalim as JN Dixit will have you believe.
zhoot boolna koi in jalim logoN se seekhay
Dear Manoj,
Our text books have J for Jalim and not Z for Zalim as JN Dixit will have you believe.
zhoot boolna koi in jalim logoN se seekhay
#119 Posted by Assad_K on May 11, 2001 3:03:44 pm
Manoj re:122
Ah, so THAT`S where that story started.
Last time I was in Karachi (which was January) I went to the bookstore and asked for an Urdu primer to leaf through. Imagine my surprise when I found k for kabootar and z for zaeef!
Ah, so THAT`S where that story started.
Last time I was in Karachi (which was January) I went to the bookstore and asked for an Urdu primer to leaf through. Imagine my surprise when I found k for kabootar and z for zaeef!
#118 Posted by jay on May 11, 2001 11:04:30 am
KKK,
The incarceration was not long enough for you to reflect on the realms beyond, but in any case welcome back, as an unchanged person. Just think of it, a country divided into two, after a short span of fifty years one has turned itself into a bankrupt, economically, culturally and spiritually while the other is knocking at the doors of superpower status. If one is looking for a causal relationship for this gigantum difference, it has to touch up on some social or genetic darwenian premise. Pakistanis have explained it away as the untimely death of jinnah, a chance event. All other reasons like the feudals, military, illitaracy etc. are superficial and are focussed on transient aspects of the social structure. Specifically there has to be an underlying cause that sustains the feudals, the military and the illitaracy.
That is where my notion of darwenian selection comes in, a selection of people who believed in TNT, the mindset that can give credance to such divisive theory, is the only one that can lead a country to this downward spiral. No pakistani seem to accept the coalition of forces arraingned against it, the global perception about pakistan and the unavoidable intertwing of its destiny with that of ahghanistan. Even on chowk I havnt come across a bold idea to comprehensively get out of this mire.
Look, I am not the enemy of pakistan, the cynicism, the hopelesness and desperation of pakistanis will be more devastating than any bomb that india can lob on, a lot more demoralising than any j-gene theory I can construct. Wake up, look out side the book, and tell the truth as you see it.
regards and best wishes
jay.
The incarceration was not long enough for you to reflect on the realms beyond, but in any case welcome back, as an unchanged person. Just think of it, a country divided into two, after a short span of fifty years one has turned itself into a bankrupt, economically, culturally and spiritually while the other is knocking at the doors of superpower status. If one is looking for a causal relationship for this gigantum difference, it has to touch up on some social or genetic darwenian premise. Pakistanis have explained it away as the untimely death of jinnah, a chance event. All other reasons like the feudals, military, illitaracy etc. are superficial and are focussed on transient aspects of the social structure. Specifically there has to be an underlying cause that sustains the feudals, the military and the illitaracy.
That is where my notion of darwenian selection comes in, a selection of people who believed in TNT, the mindset that can give credance to such divisive theory, is the only one that can lead a country to this downward spiral. No pakistani seem to accept the coalition of forces arraingned against it, the global perception about pakistan and the unavoidable intertwing of its destiny with that of ahghanistan. Even on chowk I havnt come across a bold idea to comprehensively get out of this mire.
Look, I am not the enemy of pakistan, the cynicism, the hopelesness and desperation of pakistanis will be more devastating than any bomb that india can lob on, a lot more demoralising than any j-gene theory I can construct. Wake up, look out side the book, and tell the truth as you see it.
regards and best wishes
jay.
#117 Posted by manoj on May 11, 2001 11:04:30 am
AAmir,
a) A guy entered a taxi and said to the driver
` Hi , I am India of 2001 looking ahead to 2020` and the driver said
` Hi, I am Pakistan of 1534 looking behind`.
b) Racisim?? Bigotry?
Shri J.N.Dixit ( Indian ambassador to Pakistan)once narrated a story on Star TV about his experience in Pakistan.
In India kids are taught ``k`` for kite and `z` for zebra. and recite ` Ishwar Allah tera naam, subko sumati de bhagwan` during morning assembly. Sumati meaning good sense.
He said that Paki school kids are taught urdu `K` for Kafir with a photo of Hindu with tikka and urdu `z` for zalim with a photo of a Sikh.
This is the kind of education many of our learned friends on Chowk have received. and their world view is shaped by their education.
a) A guy entered a taxi and said to the driver
` Hi , I am India of 2001 looking ahead to 2020` and the driver said
` Hi, I am Pakistan of 1534 looking behind`.
b) Racisim?? Bigotry?
Shri J.N.Dixit ( Indian ambassador to Pakistan)once narrated a story on Star TV about his experience in Pakistan.
In India kids are taught ``k`` for kite and `z` for zebra. and recite ` Ishwar Allah tera naam, subko sumati de bhagwan` during morning assembly. Sumati meaning good sense.
He said that Paki school kids are taught urdu `K` for Kafir with a photo of Hindu with tikka and urdu `z` for zalim with a photo of a Sikh.
This is the kind of education many of our learned friends on Chowk have received. and their world view is shaped by their education.
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