Organized Irrelevance

sattar2:

you do have a funny bone...am glad you discovered there is more to them fables than flying donkeys...now let me get back to the 31st chapter...

...t

karakoram #8, sattar2#39: Khadija ia believed to be 15 years older and not 25 years older than Mohammad. She was 40 and Mohammad 25 at the time of wedding. Even 40 does not sound reasonable, becasue she was still well in her child bearing age and gave birth to several children, including Fatima. She had no child from previous marriage/ marriages.
She passed away many years before Mohammad migrated to Medina. It is not known, if he took all his posessions with him or left behind in the care of relatives or Khadija family members. During her marriage with Mohammad, her business was the main source of income for the family. It was good enough that Mohammad can leave for days or even month at a time to meditate at ghar-e-hira, taking with him food and water and not worrying about running the househod.
The Islamic traditions fall silent about her immediately after her death and no mention of her is made anywhere. The person who could have memories of her, her daughter Fatima also died unexpectedly in her 30s soon after Mohammad`s death and the Khadija chapter was closed.
sattar2: Some authors seriously believe, Jewish conspiracy in the whole affair with Khadija being the leading Jewish influence, due to her upper hand in the family. They point out clear departure from too much talk about Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Jacob etc in the revelation during the time Khadija was alive. Once she died, like the Madni surahs, the topics are different and the mood about Jews is also very diferent. I do not know how much anti-Islamic bias there is in these authors`s research.

Oh by the way, the Guardian, ran an interview with one of
Saddam`s ex-mistress who was ``rescued`` by the opposition.

In one of the quotes, she says that besides drinking heavily, Saddam wants to have his name etched for another 1000 years just like Salaudin.

So it all comes down to this; trying to live in memory lane. Gives a hoot for his people. Most of the islamic countries(except malaysia) gives a hoot.

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,788164,00.html

Re Karakoram #8, on khadija`s business “…became focused with Islam, the business stopped. Not exactly sure what happened with it …”


The organized federation of Jews, parent company of what is now known as Merrill Lynch, chalked out a plan for an IPO … an investment banking firm was hired … Mo and family, and Abu Bakr and Ali got “friends and family” … and started counting days till the end of the six-month lockout period …

That was before the market crashed … the one run by the league of confused arabs … later named the OIC. Camel breeding farms reorganized their debt under chapter 11 … bedouin dreams of indoor plumbing, processed sugar, and a stairmaster in every home were shattered … all was lost.

Plan B was to start a religion … aimed at offsetting the effects of high unemployment and a sharp drop in median household disposable income. Revelations were directed against monetary interest, alcohol consumption, group sex, and idol worshipping. Options were expensed on basis of ahadith. Hand count was taken … and 4 marriages were allowed. Fasting was institutionalized to bring the body mass index of the adult population within the limits set by the arab FDA. Tahajjud was initiated as a healthy substitute to nightlife, with the slogan … ‘pray with us, and you’ll have 70 times as much fun later’.

The idea caught on … zakat money started flowing in … organized labor and management shook hands … economy stabilized and steered clear of the second dip. Only this time Mohammad was smarter … instead of leaving people with too much time in their hands … he asked them to stay occupied with prayer … memorizing the voluminous Quran … and discussing the social benefits of a society free from riba, punk rock, and oprah winfrey. Some of this did not sit well with the neighboring Jews … and led to a few armed conflicts ... including one where Mohammad went after the banu quraizah to even the score.

But that’s a whole new chapter in the history of investment banking.

Please check out this link about Saudi Schools and how they are trying to improve their curriculam:

I found the last para interesting, one Saudi guy, says that ``islam is not THE subject but A subject now``; he laments that, ``we need good muslims who are doctors, good muslims who are economists and not muslim as a ``full time job``. very interesting statement.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/06/60minutes/main521056.shtml

faziiet,

{{The reason the OIC is so pathetic in the face of Indian actions that are offensive to Muslims is, well, because Pakistan has done a rather poor job of building ties to other Muslim countries...}}

Oh jeeze, thats an interesting revelation !!(no sarcasm meant).

I`m no diplomat, but the few films of newsclips that I have seen of Arab dignitaries (esp the monied Arabs) visiting Pakistan, (metaphorically) there is a hoard of Pakistani fussing around ``his excellency``, lapping up his every word & kissing his feet.. C`mon Pakistanis are the biggest Arab brown-nosers in the world...uh..maybe I`m just overreacting to the natural hospitality Pakistanis exude towards any foreigner.

Who fights harder for the ``causes`` of oppressed muslims in this world?!.....whether it is Kashmiris, Palestinians, Afghans under the Soviets or even Chechnya?..PAKISTAN!!

Who has saved the Islamic world from slimy banias & godless Soviets...?!PAKISTAN!!

Who has vanquished & humbled Israeli pilots?!..., not Arabs...its the fearless knights of the skies...nobody can beat them in dogfighting... the indomitable PAKISTAN air force...,.ask ylh if you dont believe me!...the whooole Islamic world was cheering as Israel planes crashed & burned, when they dared to take on the PAF.

...And you are telling me despite all this, ``Pakistan has done a poor job``, diplomatically, in the Islamic world?! You are going to get the world renowed Mahela Lodhi et all, a wee bit peeved at you! Pakistani diplomats work night & day in the Islamic world, shouting themselves hoarse from the rooftops of the world ,about Kashmir.

Are muslims from outside the subcontinent blind & deaf?!...Maybe when Pakistan piously declare ``moral victories`` & quote Galib about ``hum bhi dekhenge!``, the rest of the muslim world tells it..``Oh, get a frikking LIFE!!``

PS..I understand you authored this article. BTW, you did a pretty good job; dont mind our rude & sarcastic replies:)

No its just not OIC,,

Its the whole Muslim Nation.

Even from the begginng there seems something seriouy wrong with Islam.
Look what they did to their Khulfa`s Rashideen....
or to their other heros like... Tariq Bin Ziad or Mohammed Bin Qasim or even Quaid-e-Azam.
no to mention Tipu Sultan and other...
...when one read quran One get a distict regret in the tone in Allah Messege of Missing out the Jews...
He has admitted times and again to trying to tame Jews...and when he failed...he picked Arabs...a second choice.. so we are infact Second choice....and second choice is always not the best choice.

No its just not OIC,,

Its the whole Muslim Nation.

Even from the begginng there seems something seriouy wrong with Islam.
Look what they did to their Khulfa`s Rashideen....
or to their other heros like... Tariq Bin Ziad or Mohammed Bin Qasim or even Quaid-e-Azam.
no to mention Tipu Sultan and other...
...when one read quran One get a distict regret in the tone in Allah Messege of Missing out the Jews...
He has admitted times and again to trying to tame Jews...and when he failed...he picked Arabs...a second choice.. so we are infact Second choice....and second choice is always not the best choice.

hari, for the Pakistan, the source of the problem can be traced back to Mullah-Army-ISI establishment that has waged war against nationalist parties since at least 1955.

It is time that Muslims revisited the thinking of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan
and the movement that started at Aligarh.

The rest is all ....

Ras

According to BBC, al-jazeera is going to air video clips from interview taken from two al-queida members from, Karachi, Pakistan!

Here is the link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2239889.stm

Similarly, LA Times ran a big piece about 9/11 about two sundays back as to who planned, who executed the plan, etc. According to LA times, the plan was hatched by a Sheikh Khalid something...from Karachi, Pakistan.

What has Pakistan become? When is Pakistan going to flush these nut-cases?

What to talk about Ummah when even a country like Pakistan could never unite under Islam? It`s time to go back to our nationalist origins and stop pretending Islam matters in our daily lives or can be the sole reason for a nation state.

so long as OIC represents countries which use Religion as a basis of identity or existence, then there is a problem.

To me using a 7th century ideology to define 21st century functionality is irrelevant.

All the west visualizes is a woman fully draped in Black burqa even on her face in a scorching hot sun invites being labelled irrelevant. I have known that black absorbs heat and white reflects heat. So you would expect women in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere in the muslim world, even if they are firm believers in following dictums, would atleast wear white instead of black atleast for common sense.

So if the OIC and the muslim ummah cannot even see common sense in this basics of basics, how can you expect them to strategize for the future?

Ref Field Marshal turned Economic Analyst #6
[In the current world, co-operation is based on common economic interests. Hence, Pakistanis need to try to become part of large economic unions, Muslim or otherwise. After all, Prophet Muhammad and his wife did run an import-export business that traded with all kinds of people with different religions.]
The trouble with this idea was brought forth with great impact this morning.
As I was walking along the beach in Chennai, I noticed a bunch of sidewalk hawkers selling religious items. Sunday seems to be some sort of festival for the local Christian Church (Our Lady of Vailankanni) with Ganesh Chaturthi following a couple of days later. The vendors were prominently displaying pictures and figurines of Mary and Jesus as well as Ganesh (the elephant-headed god of Hindus) to cater to all those who would be interested in these items.
Imagine a similar day in any of the countries constituting the Muslim Ummah. All pictures and figurines would be destroyed as being un-Islamic. Also, there is NO record of the Prophet Muhammad or his wife Khadhija hawking copies of the Torah and the Bible alongside the Koran though there were plenty of Jews and Christians in Arabia, including in Mecca and Medina. You might excuse this by saying that the Prophet was attempting to corner the market on religious following by concentrating exclusively on those who would be interested only in the Koran but he also brought in a brand new approach to market dominance: just kill off those who would not buy his wares. This seems to be still the trend with the Ummah.
As Naipaul points out, the Islamic countries want trade with the West but on their own terms. Thus everybody wants The Bomb and missiles but not necessarily the intellectual discipline that goes with having to make them. They want Hollywood entertainment so long as all women are properly covered in burqas and are accompanied by male mehrams. Well, the West is NOT willing to sell you The Bomb at any price but short-range missiles seem to be a fair trade against oil. The Muslim Ummah can buy airconditioners, automobiles, TVs, water desalination plants, etc., but The Great Satan and the Wicked Witches of the West draw the line there. Thus the Ummah is seriously pissed off at the West.
Are you willing to allow free trade in ideas as well as goods? If not, the Ummah will still be following 7th generation Arab thought, thoroughly modern for its times but sadly outdated for the 21st century, while riding in limousines instead of on camels.

Dear Haroon,

A few things from my personal opinion…

This whole Ummah thing…the more I think about it…isn`t it just a fantastical concept? Did one united body of Muslims ever exist? I don`t know but I don`t think so. Muslims began splitting apart from a very early age due to political disputes and this political skeleton was fleshed out with religious doctrines. Rather than promote and study independent strands of thought and let them thrive under one circle, we decided to categorise ourselves into exclusive little packages. If that wasn`t stupid enough, we began promoting little rituals and festivals amongst our own little circles so that we became even more distinct and separated from one another. To put the icing on the cake, every sonofabitch stamped their rhetoric with hell fire.

Where does one start? Well, the pillow fight over who was to take over the leadership after the death of the prophet`s death is a damn good example.

Muslim people have been screwed around by a hell of a lot of their `leaders`, some of whom have screwed around with others also. That`s why the OIC is so $hit in the bigger scheme of things. Today, a lot of us are waiting for the Messiah to descend and I agree with Sameer when he says that `majority of the people of Pakistan, just like people anywhere else want better life, justice and peace.` I`m glad he wrote that because it shows our collective attitude towards our problems. We want to make money, we want to educate our children but we don`t consider it our job to fix them. Instead we want someone else, in our own home territory, to deal with those situations and give us something ready-made that we can work upon. I`m sorry but that sounds like sheep talk to me and people who expect others (their corrupt leaders, the IMF or the world or whatever) to give us crutches will never succeed. Yes, we`ll float from butane gas cookers to microwaves but we won`t be the ones creating waves. (Yes, I know, I know; it`s easier said than done but I wouldn’t be saying this if I wasn`t doing anything [no matter how insignificant] myself).

This is why Pakistanis or Muslims (since we are discussing them) are successful in western nations but not back in their own countries. I think Western Muslims do not give enough credit to the institutions that have been created over the decades and centuries that help nourish them.

However, I do believe in an ummat and I do believe that only a collective of everyday people from around the world co-operating will help move us forward. Afterall, the concept is revolting to some of us only because it has been taken up by political leaders whose only interest in ummat relates to their own causes. Otherwise, the concept circles around social unity. What is so wrong with unity?

And who gives a monkey as to whether there is/isn’t an OHC for Hindus or an OCC for Christians or an OBC for the Buddhists. Smells of a mind which stopped pioneering a long time ago.

But I`ll be honest, whenever I hear any ummah shummah, I get pi$$ed off because it amounts to some guy recruiting young dopey kids to serve the political purposes of the few shady people at the top.

However, I`m all for an ummat if it`s run by the Muslim public of every type and from every social stratum, if it`s completely out of the sphere of politics, politicians and those with political affiliations, if its aims are to benefit every single Muslim AND Non-Muslim who lives in a Muslim majority country, if it increases communication amongst people and aids religious and cultural tolerance and scientific understanding, if it builds bridges and brings peace, if it aims to empower the people and bring out all the nasty little problems that we suffer from and finally and most importantly…if it`s a good larf …then why not?

But if a bunch of nutters are going to invoke ummatism to fuel their own political movements or spread nationalism or force their own brand of culture and religion down people`s throats, then screw it. We`re all better without it.

Best wishes,
Umer M.

harun excellent article ..........................i commend ur stance