Abrar Akbar April 3, 2003
#29 Posted by ssaleemi on April 9, 2003 10:54:38 am
Expulsion from Army School condemned
MIRALI: The Tribal Union of Journalists (TUJ) on Tuesday flayed the expulsion of brothers and daughter of the Union’s secretary-general from the Army Public School, in Mirali, for writing a report in an Urdu newspaper against the school commandant. A press statement issued by the TUJ said that Colonel Ghulam Abbas, the school commandant, threatened journalist Hayatullah through the school principal to contradict his report published on April 3 in the Urdu paper, Ausaf, warning that his brothers and daughter would be expelled from the school. According to the statement, Mr Hayatullah refused to give in on the grounds that the report was based on facts.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-4-2003_pg8_10
And they call that we are not occupied by the bloody army. Shame on that nasty colonel. Shame on Musharraf. Shame on the military
MIRALI: The Tribal Union of Journalists (TUJ) on Tuesday flayed the expulsion of brothers and daughter of the Union’s secretary-general from the Army Public School, in Mirali, for writing a report in an Urdu newspaper against the school commandant. A press statement issued by the TUJ said that Colonel Ghulam Abbas, the school commandant, threatened journalist Hayatullah through the school principal to contradict his report published on April 3 in the Urdu paper, Ausaf, warning that his brothers and daughter would be expelled from the school. According to the statement, Mr Hayatullah refused to give in on the grounds that the report was based on facts.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-4-2003_pg8_10
And they call that we are not occupied by the bloody army. Shame on that nasty colonel. Shame on Musharraf. Shame on the military
#28 Posted by hnasir on April 8, 2003 7:43:22 am
Our basic problem is not the Army itself; but the bloated corps of some 200 Maj. Generals, Lt. Generals and above.
The Army is an organized institution and its size is determined by the Indian threat as percieved in the context of Kashmir.
The size of the Army perhaps justifies about 30 2-Star+ Generals; we had 22 of them during the 1971 war.
But instaed of 30 we have 200 of the suckers. Most of them are not needed. You will find them manning useless directorates in the GHQ, leading formations that exist on paper only, or ``auctioned`` into civil institutions from PIA, KESC, Customs, Wapda, Irrigation, Cricket Board etc. Some of the special favorites are sent to FC and Rangers to spin in some more cash.
The ``Legal`` perks of a Major General have an intrisic Value of about RS 6.5 Million per year. In addition, a Brigadier is entitled to 2 Plots of Land with current market Value of about Rs 10 Million. Upon each ``Star`` promotion he is allotted even more land and other goodies.
In addition, they skim away on average about 30-40% of the Defense procurement Budget of some $ 350 M every year. Thats almost $ 90 M of bribes every year. Assuming that about 30% are monetarily honest; this amounts of an average Black Money income of Rs 35 M per head every year.
These days most of the promotions take place on the sex appeal of the officer`s wife; or his ability to procure women for the carnal pleasures of the promotion Board members or selected 3-Star mentors. Lt Gen Zarrar Azeem, Corps Commander lahore is considered to be an encylclopedia of the prostitution and call-girls industry ... Gen Muasharraf savors the pleasures of Lahore for at least 2 weekends a month. Some of the Brigadiers begin arranging ``Encounters`` between their wives and seniors at a very early stage ... giving rise to some comic (true) anecdotes .. but they must be censored here.
The growing role of American Military and FBI in Pakistani establishment is also a serious cause of concern; as some of our generals are virtually on their payroll; or captives to their interests. Our Generals are endowed with ``Canine`` sense of Loyality to the white skin and are happy to go to any extent to please their new found Masters. Amongst the most disgraceful in this department is Maj Gen Sadaqat of FC Quetta.
The legal take home income of a Maj Gen is about $ 600; about Rs 33,000 after deductables and Tax. Some of these johnies afford the education of two kids in the USA coting them a minimum of $ 50,000 every year. But they just dont seem to have any problems with that.
http://www.balochistanpost.com/reply.asp?Page=1&ID=4913
The Army is an organized institution and its size is determined by the Indian threat as percieved in the context of Kashmir.
The size of the Army perhaps justifies about 30 2-Star+ Generals; we had 22 of them during the 1971 war.
But instaed of 30 we have 200 of the suckers. Most of them are not needed. You will find them manning useless directorates in the GHQ, leading formations that exist on paper only, or ``auctioned`` into civil institutions from PIA, KESC, Customs, Wapda, Irrigation, Cricket Board etc. Some of the special favorites are sent to FC and Rangers to spin in some more cash.
The ``Legal`` perks of a Major General have an intrisic Value of about RS 6.5 Million per year. In addition, a Brigadier is entitled to 2 Plots of Land with current market Value of about Rs 10 Million. Upon each ``Star`` promotion he is allotted even more land and other goodies.
In addition, they skim away on average about 30-40% of the Defense procurement Budget of some $ 350 M every year. Thats almost $ 90 M of bribes every year. Assuming that about 30% are monetarily honest; this amounts of an average Black Money income of Rs 35 M per head every year.
These days most of the promotions take place on the sex appeal of the officer`s wife; or his ability to procure women for the carnal pleasures of the promotion Board members or selected 3-Star mentors. Lt Gen Zarrar Azeem, Corps Commander lahore is considered to be an encylclopedia of the prostitution and call-girls industry ... Gen Muasharraf savors the pleasures of Lahore for at least 2 weekends a month. Some of the Brigadiers begin arranging ``Encounters`` between their wives and seniors at a very early stage ... giving rise to some comic (true) anecdotes .. but they must be censored here.
The growing role of American Military and FBI in Pakistani establishment is also a serious cause of concern; as some of our generals are virtually on their payroll; or captives to their interests. Our Generals are endowed with ``Canine`` sense of Loyality to the white skin and are happy to go to any extent to please their new found Masters. Amongst the most disgraceful in this department is Maj Gen Sadaqat of FC Quetta.
The legal take home income of a Maj Gen is about $ 600; about Rs 33,000 after deductables and Tax. Some of these johnies afford the education of two kids in the USA coting them a minimum of $ 50,000 every year. But they just dont seem to have any problems with that.
http://www.balochistanpost.com/reply.asp?Page=1&ID=4913
#27 Posted by hnasir on April 8, 2003 7:43:22 am
And just one more:
Military, especially army in Pakistan has been running like an uncontrolled mafia ever since Ayub Khan.
It has gotten worse with every embarrassment it had handed to its nation.
In 1965, we were told, we were hands down winner and India is the one who begged for cease-fire. The facts told an entirely different story.
In 1971, we were told we destroyed over 300 Indian planes. The aftermath showed a very demoralizing scene. We were humiliated as a nation. We were labelled everywhere in the world as the rapists, entirely due to the ``glorious`` feats of the army.
Yet every time the military came back with vengence and gobbled up more and more resources and rights from civilians.
Brig. Salaut Raza claims that they deserve ``special package`` as they are perhaps mercenaries.
Correction: The mercenaries only get paid after completing the task to the clients` satisfaction.
None of the task ever handed to the military was completed satisfactorily or otherwise.
More importantly the mercenaries have no stakes in their clients` assets.
In case of Pakistani military: not only they stake claims share of their clients` assets, they declare to reposses all of their assets.
They are not even mercenaries they are ``robbers``. Perhaps if we were to lease the country to a foreign corporation for a predetermined time, we would eventually get some return on our investment.
Remember: Brits had the same land only more baren, less resourceful, less educated: Yet not only did they manage to rob plenty for themselves, they had the gentile plenty to eat.
Before anyone jumps on my throat for suggesting colonialization, this is only to show the grave injustice that is thrust upon us in the name of ultimate sacrifice by the military. Besides we are still colonialized. Only this time around the occupier is Pakistan army. Not even the entire military.
For those who claim to have taken up this sublime duty, the entrance in that exclusive club is barred for anyone but military kins.
Although I hate for any foreign influence in Pakistan, I feel a foreigner is the only one who can unveil military`s heinious crimes.
The chickens may finally come home to roost.
Finally, if military claims that the real estate awarded to them is barren and the country should be thankful to them for improving that barren land. I suggest why not allot them the interior deserted portion of Balochistan province or the peaks of Hindu Kush in north-western Balochistan for developement. If they can turn that into the paradise like clifton capable of generating revenues for the national treasury, then perhaps we will be thankful to them.
http://www.balochistanpost.com/reply.asp?Page=1&ID=4910
Military, especially army in Pakistan has been running like an uncontrolled mafia ever since Ayub Khan.
It has gotten worse with every embarrassment it had handed to its nation.
In 1965, we were told, we were hands down winner and India is the one who begged for cease-fire. The facts told an entirely different story.
In 1971, we were told we destroyed over 300 Indian planes. The aftermath showed a very demoralizing scene. We were humiliated as a nation. We were labelled everywhere in the world as the rapists, entirely due to the ``glorious`` feats of the army.
Yet every time the military came back with vengence and gobbled up more and more resources and rights from civilians.
Brig. Salaut Raza claims that they deserve ``special package`` as they are perhaps mercenaries.
Correction: The mercenaries only get paid after completing the task to the clients` satisfaction.
None of the task ever handed to the military was completed satisfactorily or otherwise.
More importantly the mercenaries have no stakes in their clients` assets.
In case of Pakistani military: not only they stake claims share of their clients` assets, they declare to reposses all of their assets.
They are not even mercenaries they are ``robbers``. Perhaps if we were to lease the country to a foreign corporation for a predetermined time, we would eventually get some return on our investment.
Remember: Brits had the same land only more baren, less resourceful, less educated: Yet not only did they manage to rob plenty for themselves, they had the gentile plenty to eat.
Before anyone jumps on my throat for suggesting colonialization, this is only to show the grave injustice that is thrust upon us in the name of ultimate sacrifice by the military. Besides we are still colonialized. Only this time around the occupier is Pakistan army. Not even the entire military.
For those who claim to have taken up this sublime duty, the entrance in that exclusive club is barred for anyone but military kins.
Although I hate for any foreign influence in Pakistan, I feel a foreigner is the only one who can unveil military`s heinious crimes.
The chickens may finally come home to roost.
Finally, if military claims that the real estate awarded to them is barren and the country should be thankful to them for improving that barren land. I suggest why not allot them the interior deserted portion of Balochistan province or the peaks of Hindu Kush in north-western Balochistan for developement. If they can turn that into the paradise like clifton capable of generating revenues for the national treasury, then perhaps we will be thankful to them.
http://www.balochistanpost.com/reply.asp?Page=1&ID=4910
#26 Posted by Pardaisi on April 7, 2003 1:25:46 pm
Jay-Gay,
You will love this.. Jagjit talks like you man! maybe you two can hookup for a drink or something wink! wink! (are you gooing to be a tight-end or wide receiver in this relationship...just curious) He`s got the money and fame. Go Gay Go! I mean Go Jay GO!
hmmm...I like it GOJAYGO! I may start calling you that.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/919_229213,001800010001.htm
You will love this.. Jagjit talks like you man! maybe you two can hookup for a drink or something wink! wink! (are you gooing to be a tight-end or wide receiver in this relationship...just curious) He`s got the money and fame. Go Gay Go! I mean Go Jay GO!
hmmm...I like it GOJAYGO! I may start calling you that.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/919_229213,001800010001.htm
#25 Posted by Pardaisi on April 7, 2003 12:04:54 pm
#19 This will SOUND FAMILIAR to you JAY-gay?
Like the Iraqis, a day will come for the ``Indians`` to be liberated by their hate filled leaders.
It is sad, the way things are, it has to get a lot worse before it can get any better.
It is like aviation, a lot of people have to be killed, before regulations are changed to increase safety. A lot more ``Indians Muslims`` will have to be killed by Hindu fundamentalists, a lot more ``Achoots`` (untouchables - literally...) will have to be killed, Babri masjid demolished before the world realizes that India in nothing but a sham democracy.
Pakistan will need a front from Afghanistan, other from Iran, then you will know ``JAY - GAY`` ,
By the way, is it possible to build a mosque in India? lets say ...never mind it will hurt you from below and will go all the way up.
__________________________________
BTW - Do you need any refills?
Like the Iraqis, a day will come for the ``Indians`` to be liberated by their hate filled leaders.
It is sad, the way things are, it has to get a lot worse before it can get any better.
It is like aviation, a lot of people have to be killed, before regulations are changed to increase safety. A lot more ``Indians Muslims`` will have to be killed by Hindu fundamentalists, a lot more ``Achoots`` (untouchables - literally...) will have to be killed, Babri masjid demolished before the world realizes that India in nothing but a sham democracy.
Pakistan will need a front from Afghanistan, other from Iran, then you will know ``JAY - GAY`` ,
By the way, is it possible to build a mosque in India? lets say ...never mind it will hurt you from below and will go all the way up.
__________________________________
BTW - Do you need any refills?
#24 Posted by HisExcellency on April 6, 2003 7:57:13 pm
Overt military involvement through controlled democracy is a double edged sword. On the one hand, it guarantees that the military`s interests are safeguarded in Pakistan`s foreign, fiscal and defense policies. Conversely, the generals can no longer scapegoat the politicians or bureaucrats for failures.
Consider:
In 1988, fearing a PPP landslide, the ISI poured millions into the coffers of Islami Jamhoori Ittehad (IJI). The military was thereby indulging in direct manipulation of the political system, to clobber an anti-PPP alliance. While PPP won power in central govt, IJI won provincial elections in Punjab. The IJI Chief Minister Nawaz Sharif formed Bank of Punjab and used it for horse-trading against PPP. Instead of development and poverty alleviation, the country`s wealth was being wasted in buying loyalties of politicians.
It can be argued that by creating the IJI, Pakistan Army was deliberately sowing the seeds of political instability, corruption and economic failure of PPP government. Then one fine day in 1990, Benazir Bhutto was given her marching orders.
Enters Nawaz Sharif as Prime Minister. He has a 2/3rd majority in central government, as well as Punjab. Finally, the country can get back to povery alleviation, development and debt retirement. Yet the military has different plans. It collaborates with the President Ghulam Ishaq Khan, to weaken Nawaz Sharif. Once again suitcases of (public) money are exchanged. Corruption, nepotism and confrontation follow. In 1993, Nawaz is blamed of corruption by the Army and kicked out.
Same story was repeated in 1996 and 1999. The Army was always part of the system (albiet behind the scenes). It conveniently took credit when the system delivered but ducked responsibility when the system failed.
Musharraf has put the army on spot. If he fails, the army fails. If he succeeds, the army succeeds. The reputation of an entire institution rests on one imperfect man`s shoulders. No army can feel comfortable with such an arrangement, especially when the problems are so complex.
This will inevitably result in a return to regular democracy in the years to come. Collective decision making and consensual politics may be slow, but it is definitely sure and steady.
Consider:
In 1988, fearing a PPP landslide, the ISI poured millions into the coffers of Islami Jamhoori Ittehad (IJI). The military was thereby indulging in direct manipulation of the political system, to clobber an anti-PPP alliance. While PPP won power in central govt, IJI won provincial elections in Punjab. The IJI Chief Minister Nawaz Sharif formed Bank of Punjab and used it for horse-trading against PPP. Instead of development and poverty alleviation, the country`s wealth was being wasted in buying loyalties of politicians.
It can be argued that by creating the IJI, Pakistan Army was deliberately sowing the seeds of political instability, corruption and economic failure of PPP government. Then one fine day in 1990, Benazir Bhutto was given her marching orders.
Enters Nawaz Sharif as Prime Minister. He has a 2/3rd majority in central government, as well as Punjab. Finally, the country can get back to povery alleviation, development and debt retirement. Yet the military has different plans. It collaborates with the President Ghulam Ishaq Khan, to weaken Nawaz Sharif. Once again suitcases of (public) money are exchanged. Corruption, nepotism and confrontation follow. In 1993, Nawaz is blamed of corruption by the Army and kicked out.
Same story was repeated in 1996 and 1999. The Army was always part of the system (albiet behind the scenes). It conveniently took credit when the system delivered but ducked responsibility when the system failed.
Musharraf has put the army on spot. If he fails, the army fails. If he succeeds, the army succeeds. The reputation of an entire institution rests on one imperfect man`s shoulders. No army can feel comfortable with such an arrangement, especially when the problems are so complex.
This will inevitably result in a return to regular democracy in the years to come. Collective decision making and consensual politics may be slow, but it is definitely sure and steady.
#23 Posted by wahidkk on April 6, 2003 12:43:55 pm
I have a little to disagree. However, that ``a little`` carries a lot of weight. The press, the political parties, the masses and their knowledge is okay. Do you think that mice need knowledge to bell the cat? It is character that we lack. The armymen are our paid chowkidars. If we let our chowkidars take controls, it is our fault not theirs. Can we breed character when we had at least 5000 years of slavery. This era has a tradition to yield to the power. Knowledge or no knowledge.
I am sorry your article had too much of optimism. By the way, are you writing from Jail or an ISI camp?
I am sorry your article had too much of optimism. By the way, are you writing from Jail or an ISI camp?
#22 Posted by abrara on April 6, 2003 10:58:22 am
Dear readers:
Thanks for the appreciation and feedback.
In my personal (and humble) opinion, a recuperation process normally comprises of at least four phases.
(i) Realization. It starts with recognition that something is wrong and it demands some remedial actions
(ii) Knowledge or Diagnosis. Pinpointing of the root cause. Identification of the malfunctioning organs.
(iii) Probing of available/possible line(s) of action. Surgery, medication. A mixture of both. Perhaps, alternative medicine, like, homeopathy, acupuncture.
(iv) Finally, of course, dispensation of the therapy.
Unfortunately, we in Pakistan have been fumbling around stage 1. for last four decades. We all are/were agreed that something is/was grossly wrong, in urgent need of correction. But are/were far from any consensus about the reason(s).
Therefore, I would dare to differ with the interactor who thinks that we have the knowledge of the problem. No dear, no, it is a very recent phenomenon that we started venturing into the erstwhile prohibitive domain of the GHQ – the malign tumour in Pakistan. Only few years back, hardly any beyond the insiders had knowledge of the extent and magnitude of the tentacles of the cancer.
So, in a sense, we have somewhat come to the stage 2. Rest assured, slowly but steadily methods and means to get rid of this menace (I mean the infected parts of it) will also evolve.
Best regards.
Thanks for the appreciation and feedback.
In my personal (and humble) opinion, a recuperation process normally comprises of at least four phases.
(i) Realization. It starts with recognition that something is wrong and it demands some remedial actions
(ii) Knowledge or Diagnosis. Pinpointing of the root cause. Identification of the malfunctioning organs.
(iii) Probing of available/possible line(s) of action. Surgery, medication. A mixture of both. Perhaps, alternative medicine, like, homeopathy, acupuncture.
(iv) Finally, of course, dispensation of the therapy.
Unfortunately, we in Pakistan have been fumbling around stage 1. for last four decades. We all are/were agreed that something is/was grossly wrong, in urgent need of correction. But are/were far from any consensus about the reason(s).
Therefore, I would dare to differ with the interactor who thinks that we have the knowledge of the problem. No dear, no, it is a very recent phenomenon that we started venturing into the erstwhile prohibitive domain of the GHQ – the malign tumour in Pakistan. Only few years back, hardly any beyond the insiders had knowledge of the extent and magnitude of the tentacles of the cancer.
So, in a sense, we have somewhat come to the stage 2. Rest assured, slowly but steadily methods and means to get rid of this menace (I mean the infected parts of it) will also evolve.
Best regards.
#21 Posted by sadna on April 6, 2003 10:53:41 am
I like the tone of this article, which is looking at the right benefits of military rule.
But one thing which, IMO, is getting clearer is, if a religious party(ies) wins the national election and rules Pakistan, this is the one civilian government to which the Pakistani Army will finally be constrained to yield the moral upper ground and hence be forced to obey instead of vice versa as has been happening all this while.
After decades of granting to these religious parties, the final say on religious matters and using them consistently to undermine liberal parties, how can the Pakistani Army suddenly claim to be closer to God when these parties come to power? You will finally have an Army which will have no moral excuse to interfere with civilian govt.
Hence expect that the US (which also has this apprehension) will help the Pakistani Army rig the elections in future so that there can be no outcome which causes the Pakistani Army to lose its moral overlordship. Also expect many `liberal` Pakistanis to feel grateful for this co-option of democratic process.
This is rather depressing, so feel free to tell me why I am wrong :(.
But one thing which, IMO, is getting clearer is, if a religious party(ies) wins the national election and rules Pakistan, this is the one civilian government to which the Pakistani Army will finally be constrained to yield the moral upper ground and hence be forced to obey instead of vice versa as has been happening all this while.
After decades of granting to these religious parties, the final say on religious matters and using them consistently to undermine liberal parties, how can the Pakistani Army suddenly claim to be closer to God when these parties come to power? You will finally have an Army which will have no moral excuse to interfere with civilian govt.
Hence expect that the US (which also has this apprehension) will help the Pakistani Army rig the elections in future so that there can be no outcome which causes the Pakistani Army to lose its moral overlordship. Also expect many `liberal` Pakistanis to feel grateful for this co-option of democratic process.
This is rather depressing, so feel free to tell me why I am wrong :(.
#20 Posted by kamala on April 6, 2003 8:35:30 am
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#19 Posted by jay on April 6, 2003 6:16:54 am
Ahmadzai,
Like the iraquis, a day will come for the pakistanis also to be liberated. It came in 1971 for the east pakistanis, now they are on a path to progress.
It is sad, the way things are, it has to get a lot worse before it can get any better.
It is like avaiation, a lot of people have to be killed, befor regulations are changed to increase safety. A lot more pakistanis will have to be killed by honoru kiloings, a lot more ahmadisas will have to be killed, and plenty more hinsus before the world realises that daisy cutters are needed for pakistan.
Inddia will need a front from afghanistan, npther from iran, then you will know ahmadzia, the dawn of hope is in the horiizon for pakistanis. Try to make as happy as you can, assume that pakistan are the protectors of indian muslims, talk of one babri majid demolition when more tha 10,000 now mosques are built in india nd hundreds of hindu temples are demolished in pakistan.
By the way, is it possible to build a hindu temple in pakistan.
Like the iraquis, a day will come for the pakistanis also to be liberated. It came in 1971 for the east pakistanis, now they are on a path to progress.
It is sad, the way things are, it has to get a lot worse before it can get any better.
It is like avaiation, a lot of people have to be killed, befor regulations are changed to increase safety. A lot more pakistanis will have to be killed by honoru kiloings, a lot more ahmadisas will have to be killed, and plenty more hinsus before the world realises that daisy cutters are needed for pakistan.
Inddia will need a front from afghanistan, npther from iran, then you will know ahmadzia, the dawn of hope is in the horiizon for pakistanis. Try to make as happy as you can, assume that pakistan are the protectors of indian muslims, talk of one babri majid demolition when more tha 10,000 now mosques are built in india nd hundreds of hindu temples are demolished in pakistan.
By the way, is it possible to build a hindu temple in pakistan.
#18 Posted by mohar11 on April 5, 2003 11:19:28 pm
Pakis pay heed: Here are some very good suggestions from a wise Pakistani.
Futile calls for a dialogue
http://www.dawn.com/2003/04/06/op.htm
By Anwar Syed
Excerpts:
+++
It is argued that even if there is no actual war, tension will afflict relations between the two countries as long as the Kashmir dispute festers. That may be true, but it seems the Indians are able to cope with this tension reasonably well. The pace of their educational, economic, and technological development is considerably faster than ours. Their nationhood and internal cohesion are firmer today than they were fifty years ago.
Their political system is reasonably stable, and in international relations they are more influential even with our ``allies`` than we ourselves are. Everything considered, tension in their relations with us is not hurting them to any significant degree. If it is hurting us, it is our problem, not theirs, and we are the ones to find ways of overcoming it.
+++
If we, on our own part, feel that improved relations with India will work to our advantage, then let us first address issues that are more amenable to resolution, and defer Kashmir to a more propitious time. When that time arrives, we can re-energize the issue. We don`t have much of a choice in the matter.
+++
Futile calls for a dialogue
http://www.dawn.com/2003/04/06/op.htm
By Anwar Syed
Excerpts:
+++
It is argued that even if there is no actual war, tension will afflict relations between the two countries as long as the Kashmir dispute festers. That may be true, but it seems the Indians are able to cope with this tension reasonably well. The pace of their educational, economic, and technological development is considerably faster than ours. Their nationhood and internal cohesion are firmer today than they were fifty years ago.
Their political system is reasonably stable, and in international relations they are more influential even with our ``allies`` than we ourselves are. Everything considered, tension in their relations with us is not hurting them to any significant degree. If it is hurting us, it is our problem, not theirs, and we are the ones to find ways of overcoming it.
+++
If we, on our own part, feel that improved relations with India will work to our advantage, then let us first address issues that are more amenable to resolution, and defer Kashmir to a more propitious time. When that time arrives, we can re-energize the issue. We don`t have much of a choice in the matter.
+++
#17 Posted by Ahmadzai on April 5, 2003 10:12:44 am
I regret ignoring arjum_m at # 9:
``You say this as if he had a choice when he made the uturn. If he made the u-turn out of the moderation in his heart, why did he wait for Sept 11?
Try to listen to Musharraf`s speech on August 14, i.e. a month before and you will find out that we had planned the u-Turn much earlier.
On the contrary, Indian extremist leadership had a choice not to make a U-turn on the philosophy of India`s founding fathers. Yet it made a U-turn and killed Muslims in Gujrat with choice and is killing Kashmiris under custody and in fake encounters by choice.
``Thats because the military has always been the real power in Pakiland.... ``
Army men also come from Pakistan. They are Pakistanis too. Any problems with that buddy?
;)
``You say this as if he had a choice when he made the uturn. If he made the u-turn out of the moderation in his heart, why did he wait for Sept 11?
Try to listen to Musharraf`s speech on August 14, i.e. a month before and you will find out that we had planned the u-Turn much earlier.
On the contrary, Indian extremist leadership had a choice not to make a U-turn on the philosophy of India`s founding fathers. Yet it made a U-turn and killed Muslims in Gujrat with choice and is killing Kashmiris under custody and in fake encounters by choice.
``Thats because the military has always been the real power in Pakiland.... ``
Army men also come from Pakistan. They are Pakistanis too. Any problems with that buddy?
;)
#16 Posted by Sobia on April 5, 2003 8:44:07 am
this is all rhetoric. sure, we know musharraf and co. are underhanded and corrupt...but we knew that about yahya too..we knew that about the previous military governments too..i don`t see anything being DONE about it though...we all know of the plots and the palaces of the crore commanders..we all know of their luxuries and their money making schemes...but what i worry about is that the army is getting more and more entrenched in civilan affairs and no one can oust them; colonels, brigadiers, lt. gens...they`re crawling out of the woodwork...no one can do anything about it...sorry if i sound so morbid, but i really don`t see how `knowledge` can translate into action in pakistan when it hasn`t done so for the past five decades.
#15 Posted by Ahmadzai on April 5, 2003 7:03:32 am
Jay at # 13:
Good post.
Pakistan continues to respond in kind to India.
ha ha ha ;)
Good post.
Pakistan continues to respond in kind to India.
ha ha ha ;)
#14 Posted by rsaxena on April 5, 2003 7:03:32 am
....good ole pakis cheering on another military dictator...tsk tsk...
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- masadi: tahmed writes "now i... Dhokha and Being a
- masadi: #348 laddu writes "Re:... Dhokha and Being a
- pakistan3: Re: # 90 Tahir, Your post... Government Wins Manmohan Singh
- masadi: Anil don't hide behind... Why is Karachi Turning
- peonofthewest: masadi saab, howcome they... Dhokha and Being a








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