My Perspective on Islam
Rasheed Talib August 7, 2003
#56 Posted by mtindia on January 4, 2005 9:31:02 am
I agree with your approach and perspective. You are close to the Nagpur scholar who just wanted to remind the community that Quran is arranged origianlly by divine will, according to the date of revelation -- call it chronologically arranged, or use the traditional sense of ordering in the style it was revealed. He said the present order is what is suggested by the Messenger, Peace and Blessings on him. In short, the Nagpur scholar`s news report in a Urdu daily, some ten years ago, received lot of criticism. Although, the point is true and CANNOT be over-ruled, the revelatory order is still a valid way of ordering. I fail to trace a citation, which mentioned that Caliph Ali, peace and blessings on him, did have such a sequence in his collection. Today we don’t find this sequence anywhere, and hence the critics spending their energies in a destructive manner.
In your situation, you can do one thing to circumvent such time-pass critics, i.e., casual and carefree critics, as well those who have are not creative, nor heave any serious purpose to accomplish on the earth as a representative of the Creator.
You can submit your manuscript to a university, for a D.Litt thesis. You don’t have to write a book, nor search for a Neutral publisher. Many academic dissertations and thesis never see the publisher`s desk, but through university microfilm international (www.umi.com), get out to public and reach Anyone, Anywhere and Anyhow. This is the most Direct and simple approach to write, publish, and still see the impact of your ideas.
Write to me or send me your email address for more insight into what you call, or rather nearly call, local dimensions of Islam (in your phraseology: ``practical Islam.``)
I think all the debate, and/or extended-interpretation of `practical Islam` is by way of adding a sixth pillar (accepted and / or added by some schools of thought), i.e., immamat, khilafat, jihad, etc. By way of this sixth dimension, what is Local becomes global, internal becomes external, and limited becomes global.
My thesis is Islam is basically (theologically, socially, economically, and by almost all benchmarks, stated in scriptural or interpreted) LOCAL in its color, taste, and smell. When does it get non-local? Global is its spirituality, universal is its scope, and international is its application. To illustrate this point, one single instance would suffice. You can ONLY pray by local time, and behind a local imam. Furthermore, zakath, charity and care is primarily for the immediate near (speaking in a physical, spiritual, material) and dear. So also, accountability in the hereafter is all-ado-about self, one`s own family, and those who are (associated in any manner) with you. Accountability is NOT about those who are away FROM you in whatever whichever and wherever sense.
Then, looking Islam as a local way of life, is the rule, and not just a casual happening. Islam in Indonesia as practiced for ages, is with its own local touch, culture, theological interpretation, social context, etc. In this specificity, Indonesia or India, are no exceptions. It is true in every space, time, and perspective. Accepting this local as real, and global as surreal is the crux. Most don’t and none publishes a book on this perspective.
I don`t wish to get into terminological warfare, which says Islam is true vs. folk islam, ideal vs. practical islam, fundamentalist vs. non-fundamentalist, orthodox vs. un-conventional, moderate vs. traditionalist, simple vs. complicated, rigid vs. flexible, etcetra.
Best wishes, Dr. MT. mt2222@yahoo.com
In your situation, you can do one thing to circumvent such time-pass critics, i.e., casual and carefree critics, as well those who have are not creative, nor heave any serious purpose to accomplish on the earth as a representative of the Creator.
You can submit your manuscript to a university, for a D.Litt thesis. You don’t have to write a book, nor search for a Neutral publisher. Many academic dissertations and thesis never see the publisher`s desk, but through university microfilm international (www.umi.com), get out to public and reach Anyone, Anywhere and Anyhow. This is the most Direct and simple approach to write, publish, and still see the impact of your ideas.
Write to me or send me your email address for more insight into what you call, or rather nearly call, local dimensions of Islam (in your phraseology: ``practical Islam.``)
I think all the debate, and/or extended-interpretation of `practical Islam` is by way of adding a sixth pillar (accepted and / or added by some schools of thought), i.e., immamat, khilafat, jihad, etc. By way of this sixth dimension, what is Local becomes global, internal becomes external, and limited becomes global.
My thesis is Islam is basically (theologically, socially, economically, and by almost all benchmarks, stated in scriptural or interpreted) LOCAL in its color, taste, and smell. When does it get non-local? Global is its spirituality, universal is its scope, and international is its application. To illustrate this point, one single instance would suffice. You can ONLY pray by local time, and behind a local imam. Furthermore, zakath, charity and care is primarily for the immediate near (speaking in a physical, spiritual, material) and dear. So also, accountability in the hereafter is all-ado-about self, one`s own family, and those who are (associated in any manner) with you. Accountability is NOT about those who are away FROM you in whatever whichever and wherever sense.
Then, looking Islam as a local way of life, is the rule, and not just a casual happening. Islam in Indonesia as practiced for ages, is with its own local touch, culture, theological interpretation, social context, etc. In this specificity, Indonesia or India, are no exceptions. It is true in every space, time, and perspective. Accepting this local as real, and global as surreal is the crux. Most don’t and none publishes a book on this perspective.
I don`t wish to get into terminological warfare, which says Islam is true vs. folk islam, ideal vs. practical islam, fundamentalist vs. non-fundamentalist, orthodox vs. un-conventional, moderate vs. traditionalist, simple vs. complicated, rigid vs. flexible, etcetra.
Best wishes, Dr. MT. mt2222@yahoo.com
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#55 Posted by rasheedtalib on August 17, 2003 8:08:57 am
Thank you, AlephNull, for your comment #10 of August 8 to my Chowk piece. I`m sorry for this late reply. In reply to the very valid point made by you, all I can do is to reproduce a couple of paras I had written in one of my prefatory pieces for my proposed book. Here it is:
[I ignore for the purpose of this presentation the view of a recent group of Western scholars -Patircia Crone, Michael Cook, John Wansbrough et al - who have put forward an interesting revisionist theory about the birth of the Quran. Based on their research, they maintain that the Quranic verses were put together from oral stories retold a century or two after the Prophet’s death when Arab civilization was at its imperial peak and the Arabs wished to give themselves an identity distinct from that of the culturally superior peoples they ruled over in neighbouring Byzantium and Iran.
[I also overlook in this presentation the ongoing exchanges between Christian and Islamic evangelical groups on such Internet websites as “answering-Islam” and “answering-Chritianity” on the weight to be attached to various claims regarding the Quran on the basis of traditional Muslim sources.
[Although my book does take a passing look at some of these issues, it is based for the most part on the way the Muslims themselves view their history, founded as this necessarily is on traditional sources. My principal concern is with Muslim beliefs and practices and not “what actually happened in history” which, here as elsewhere, is itself a moot issue. For me, the problem of Islam is how its followers perceive their faith not Islam per se]. Rasheed Talib.
[I ignore for the purpose of this presentation the view of a recent group of Western scholars -Patircia Crone, Michael Cook, John Wansbrough et al - who have put forward an interesting revisionist theory about the birth of the Quran. Based on their research, they maintain that the Quranic verses were put together from oral stories retold a century or two after the Prophet’s death when Arab civilization was at its imperial peak and the Arabs wished to give themselves an identity distinct from that of the culturally superior peoples they ruled over in neighbouring Byzantium and Iran.
[I also overlook in this presentation the ongoing exchanges between Christian and Islamic evangelical groups on such Internet websites as “answering-Islam” and “answering-Chritianity” on the weight to be attached to various claims regarding the Quran on the basis of traditional Muslim sources.
[Although my book does take a passing look at some of these issues, it is based for the most part on the way the Muslims themselves view their history, founded as this necessarily is on traditional sources. My principal concern is with Muslim beliefs and practices and not “what actually happened in history” which, here as elsewhere, is itself a moot issue. For me, the problem of Islam is how its followers perceive their faith not Islam per se]. Rasheed Talib.
#54 Posted by PM on August 16, 2003 6:48:52 am
this excellent, thought provoking post is taken from a board that discussed these issue here four years ago .. definetly worth a reprint here:
(from http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00000471&channel=civic%20center&start=70&end=79&page=8&chapter=1#replies)
#31 by Wasiq on January 18, 1999 12:06pm PT
Anita has brought up a very interesting point, which I did not want to bring up because it inevitably collides head on with deep-rooted religious convictions of the majority of Muslims. But here it goes, nevertheless.
Let us suppose for a minute that no-one had ever discovered any ``non-standard`` copies of the Quran. Just by reading about the procedure that was followed in the time of Caliph Uthman to standardize the Quran would have convinced any reasonably intelligent person that the process could not be perfect. Consider the following:
1) By the time the Quran was compiled, the Prophet had already been dead for about 30 years. Most of his closest companions had also passed on. The compilation of the Quran, its chronology and the definition of the context of different injunctions and verses were left to the interpretation of the committee of people chosen to be the compilers, none of whom I might add can be called great Quranic scholars. According to tradtions, people brought Quranic verses in for compilation in various formats, written on tree barks or hides, or memorized etc. The possibility for (a) omission (b) addition (c) loss of proper ordering of verses (d) definition of the context of different verses is therefore quite present.
2) In a move that continues to astound history, Caliphs Abu-Bakr, Omar and Uthman systematically and consistently secluded the family of the Prophet from this process. The family members of the Prophet were his closest companions who had seen the rise of Islam from its very inception. They were the ideal keepers of the Quran and the Hadith. After the death of the Prophet, Caliph Ali asked that he be left alone so that he could compile the Quran. That wish was vehemently denied. (It resulted in a bunch of people storming the house of Ali). People who are aware of the compilation of the Hadith will also recall that although the Prophet considered his household (Ahl-ul-Bait) to be sacred and closest to him, the number of Hadith associated to Hadrat Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussein are minute compared to the ones attributed to people of much lesser stature in Islamic history.
3) The question arises why should this have been done? The compilation of the Quran served an immensely important political purpose. Although people on pulpits from across the Muslim world never cease to paint a picture of the companions of the Prophet being sinless and untainted beings, nothing could be further from fact. They were people who had grown up in a highly politically active atmosphere, and frankly the vast majority of them were out for themselves. Doesn`t sound too different from what we are today!
The compilation of the Quran fell into the same fate. Immediately after the death of the Prophet a slogan was invented (whose inventor remains anonymous but loyally followed to this day): ``Prophethood and Caliphate can never go to the same family``. This slogan encapsulated the traditional tribal jealousies that the Prophet had tried to eradicate but was unsuccessful. It also betrayed the fact that people never understood the meaning of Prophethood and Caliphate, and kept on equating Caliphate with Temporal Kingship (with all its benefits).
A historical parallel to this example is found again in the Banu Umayya, who were the cousins by lineage of the Banu Hashim family, and had been deported from their ancestral lands by a multi-tribal judgement. After the fall of Makkah, Abu-Sufyan who was from the Banu Umayya family became a ``Muslim`` because it was politically expedient for him to do so. His son Muawiya was installed by Caliph Omar in Syria, where he enjoyed a virtually autonomous rule as a governer for about twenty years. Why Muawiya should have been given such a politically important post by Caliph Omar given that his father was an arch-enemy of Islam is not so surprising if one considers the enormous political benefits the Caliph stood to reap from the presence of Muawiya, if there was a strong pro-Hashim movement in the Hejaz. This is exactly what happened during the Caliphate of Ali when Muawiya wrongly, unlawfully and unjustifiably revolted against the Caliph of Islam and brought in the dark ages of Imperialism into Islamic history, whose legacy hounds us to this day. (When Maudoodi came to the same conclusion, his book ``Khilafat-o-Malukiat`` was immediately silenced by his own companions.) The case of Imam Hussein and Yazid was the next logical link of this scenario. Being the good son of Muawiya, Yazid did what his father taught him well.
This discussion adds a new political dimension to Islam and the Quran. One distinctly comes off with the feeling that the Family of the Prophet was decidedly ill-treated by essentially everyone after the Prophet`s death. (Muawiya for example started a tradition where Caliph Ali was verbally abused in every khutba delivered by every mosque imam. This tradition went on for almost forty years before it was abrogated by Umar bin Abdul-Aziz. Almost all of the Shi`a Imams, for example, died unnatural deaths. In Kerbala, for example, one saw the ludicrous and ironic situation that the soldiers of Yazid`s army would praise the Prophet and his family in their prayers, and then rise up to kill the same family of the Prophet.) The traditional point of view on all of this is to present a harmonious picture that makes everyone pure and pristine. Such a point of view can only be supported in a fairy tale, and not in the real world. In the past (and sadly even in the present) to say something like this was suicidal -all opposition was brutally crushed. The reason, again that religion was deeply interconnected with the politics. The State derived its legitimacy and power from religion, and therefore, religious dogma served the exact purpose that propoganda served in Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany. (Think about Saudi Arabia for a second in the modern days.)
I think we are lucky that we are born in an era where ideas can be accepted or rejected based upon their scientific merit. That the traditional histories of Islam will be re-written is inevitable, and perhaps the increasing rise of fundamentalism in the Islamic world is partly also due to the anticipation of this change.
(from http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00000471&channel=civic%20center&start=70&end=79&page=8&chapter=1#replies)
#31 by Wasiq on January 18, 1999 12:06pm PT
Anita has brought up a very interesting point, which I did not want to bring up because it inevitably collides head on with deep-rooted religious convictions of the majority of Muslims. But here it goes, nevertheless.
Let us suppose for a minute that no-one had ever discovered any ``non-standard`` copies of the Quran. Just by reading about the procedure that was followed in the time of Caliph Uthman to standardize the Quran would have convinced any reasonably intelligent person that the process could not be perfect. Consider the following:
1) By the time the Quran was compiled, the Prophet had already been dead for about 30 years. Most of his closest companions had also passed on. The compilation of the Quran, its chronology and the definition of the context of different injunctions and verses were left to the interpretation of the committee of people chosen to be the compilers, none of whom I might add can be called great Quranic scholars. According to tradtions, people brought Quranic verses in for compilation in various formats, written on tree barks or hides, or memorized etc. The possibility for (a) omission (b) addition (c) loss of proper ordering of verses (d) definition of the context of different verses is therefore quite present.
2) In a move that continues to astound history, Caliphs Abu-Bakr, Omar and Uthman systematically and consistently secluded the family of the Prophet from this process. The family members of the Prophet were his closest companions who had seen the rise of Islam from its very inception. They were the ideal keepers of the Quran and the Hadith. After the death of the Prophet, Caliph Ali asked that he be left alone so that he could compile the Quran. That wish was vehemently denied. (It resulted in a bunch of people storming the house of Ali). People who are aware of the compilation of the Hadith will also recall that although the Prophet considered his household (Ahl-ul-Bait) to be sacred and closest to him, the number of Hadith associated to Hadrat Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussein are minute compared to the ones attributed to people of much lesser stature in Islamic history.
3) The question arises why should this have been done? The compilation of the Quran served an immensely important political purpose. Although people on pulpits from across the Muslim world never cease to paint a picture of the companions of the Prophet being sinless and untainted beings, nothing could be further from fact. They were people who had grown up in a highly politically active atmosphere, and frankly the vast majority of them were out for themselves. Doesn`t sound too different from what we are today!
The compilation of the Quran fell into the same fate. Immediately after the death of the Prophet a slogan was invented (whose inventor remains anonymous but loyally followed to this day): ``Prophethood and Caliphate can never go to the same family``. This slogan encapsulated the traditional tribal jealousies that the Prophet had tried to eradicate but was unsuccessful. It also betrayed the fact that people never understood the meaning of Prophethood and Caliphate, and kept on equating Caliphate with Temporal Kingship (with all its benefits).
A historical parallel to this example is found again in the Banu Umayya, who were the cousins by lineage of the Banu Hashim family, and had been deported from their ancestral lands by a multi-tribal judgement. After the fall of Makkah, Abu-Sufyan who was from the Banu Umayya family became a ``Muslim`` because it was politically expedient for him to do so. His son Muawiya was installed by Caliph Omar in Syria, where he enjoyed a virtually autonomous rule as a governer for about twenty years. Why Muawiya should have been given such a politically important post by Caliph Omar given that his father was an arch-enemy of Islam is not so surprising if one considers the enormous political benefits the Caliph stood to reap from the presence of Muawiya, if there was a strong pro-Hashim movement in the Hejaz. This is exactly what happened during the Caliphate of Ali when Muawiya wrongly, unlawfully and unjustifiably revolted against the Caliph of Islam and brought in the dark ages of Imperialism into Islamic history, whose legacy hounds us to this day. (When Maudoodi came to the same conclusion, his book ``Khilafat-o-Malukiat`` was immediately silenced by his own companions.) The case of Imam Hussein and Yazid was the next logical link of this scenario. Being the good son of Muawiya, Yazid did what his father taught him well.
This discussion adds a new political dimension to Islam and the Quran. One distinctly comes off with the feeling that the Family of the Prophet was decidedly ill-treated by essentially everyone after the Prophet`s death. (Muawiya for example started a tradition where Caliph Ali was verbally abused in every khutba delivered by every mosque imam. This tradition went on for almost forty years before it was abrogated by Umar bin Abdul-Aziz. Almost all of the Shi`a Imams, for example, died unnatural deaths. In Kerbala, for example, one saw the ludicrous and ironic situation that the soldiers of Yazid`s army would praise the Prophet and his family in their prayers, and then rise up to kill the same family of the Prophet.) The traditional point of view on all of this is to present a harmonious picture that makes everyone pure and pristine. Such a point of view can only be supported in a fairy tale, and not in the real world. In the past (and sadly even in the present) to say something like this was suicidal -all opposition was brutally crushed. The reason, again that religion was deeply interconnected with the politics. The State derived its legitimacy and power from religion, and therefore, religious dogma served the exact purpose that propoganda served in Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany. (Think about Saudi Arabia for a second in the modern days.)
I think we are lucky that we are born in an era where ideas can be accepted or rejected based upon their scientific merit. That the traditional histories of Islam will be re-written is inevitable, and perhaps the increasing rise of fundamentalism in the Islamic world is partly also due to the anticipation of this change.
#52 Posted by Urstruly on August 14, 2003 10:49:48 am
Inquirer
This is the best ``jug`t`` I have heard/read in probably a decade :)
This is the best ``jug`t`` I have heard/read in probably a decade :)
#51 Posted by Inquirer on August 13, 2003 2:15:48 pm
Nashbandi!
That`s what you get for talking to women!!!!
She asked the questions and you replied.
Oh! when will you ever learn???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That`s what you get for talking to women!!!!
She asked the questions and you replied.
Oh! when will you ever learn???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#50 Posted by ZahraJ on August 12, 2003 8:43:17 pm
Naqshbandi:
Waa Alaikum Assalam.
My true intent for asking the questions was not to educate myself. It was to point out certain things to you. I do not think you got my point therefore I saw the need to come back and highlight it. Please do not ever mention Hamza Yousaf to me me again, I simply dislike that man. OK! Thank you for sharing your list. I will reserve my comments on that. Nothing more on the said topic.
Thanks.
Waa Alaikum Assalam.
My true intent for asking the questions was not to educate myself. It was to point out certain things to you. I do not think you got my point therefore I saw the need to come back and highlight it. Please do not ever mention Hamza Yousaf to me me again, I simply dislike that man. OK! Thank you for sharing your list. I will reserve my comments on that. Nothing more on the said topic.
Thanks.
#49 Posted by nasah on August 12, 2003 2:04:53 pm
``astleast i m not as bad as u beleive.thanks``(Saminshah)
dear Saminshah -- your are definitely NOT -- I agree with you 100% on Islam -- disagree with you 100% on Iraq......
I was -- BORN NOT FREE -- under the Anglo Raj -- and hated every moment of it -- till we got rid of the bastards in 1947
I absolutely detest -- the idea of new Iraqi children being -- BORN NOT FREE -- under the SAME Anglo Raj -- once AGAIN in 2003!!!
I know history repeats itself -- but this is one history I and YOU surely don`t want to be repeated --
this is trying to turn back the Crummy Colonial Clock 180 degrees -- going back to the 30`s Laws of the Jungle..
it will have CONSEQUENCES for Both Bastards -- the Blabbering Blair and the Buffoon Bush...who have Committed THE CRIME of the New Century ..
it will not go unpunished in November 2004...
dear Saminshah -- your are definitely NOT -- I agree with you 100% on Islam -- disagree with you 100% on Iraq......
I was -- BORN NOT FREE -- under the Anglo Raj -- and hated every moment of it -- till we got rid of the bastards in 1947
I absolutely detest -- the idea of new Iraqi children being -- BORN NOT FREE -- under the SAME Anglo Raj -- once AGAIN in 2003!!!
I know history repeats itself -- but this is one history I and YOU surely don`t want to be repeated --
this is trying to turn back the Crummy Colonial Clock 180 degrees -- going back to the 30`s Laws of the Jungle..
it will have CONSEQUENCES for Both Bastards -- the Blabbering Blair and the Buffoon Bush...who have Committed THE CRIME of the New Century ..
it will not go unpunished in November 2004...
#48 Posted by nasah on August 12, 2003 10:45:59 am
``God has set a seal on their hearts and on their ears; and there is a covering on their eyes; and for them shall be a big punishment.(7) ````(Naqshbandi quote from Quran)
``
exactly Naqshbandi -- God Of ALL Reasons -- the Most Reasonable -- is talking about the Unreasonable Mullahs: ``God has set a seal on their hearts and on their ears; and there is a covering on their eyes; and for them shall be a big punishment.(7) `` --
they cannot feel, hear or see the REASON....
God`s ``big Punishment`` for the Political Mullahs -- is in progress all over the world...
#47 Posted by Inquirer on August 12, 2003 10:45:59 am
#38, hamidm2:
Let us not paint entire Islam in a monotone!! We value your services inspite of..... . But we need to distinguish between Khusro (the legitimate heir to Shahjahan) and Aurangzeb!!!!!!! Only then can we identify who is maligning all religions!!!!!!!!!
Let us not paint entire Islam in a monotone!! We value your services inspite of..... . But we need to distinguish between Khusro (the legitimate heir to Shahjahan) and Aurangzeb!!!!!!! Only then can we identify who is maligning all religions!!!!!!!!!
#46 Posted by PM on August 12, 2003 9:15:51 am
dost-mittar:
re. the quote you reproduce in #39
Actaully, from all available evidence, its seems quite plauisble that God has done exactly all those unrighteous things to certain folks who profess to be his staunchest followers. ironic, isn`t it? ;-)
re. the quote you reproduce in #39
Actaully, from all available evidence, its seems quite plauisble that God has done exactly all those unrighteous things to certain folks who profess to be his staunchest followers. ironic, isn`t it? ;-)
#45 Posted by Inquirer on August 11, 2003 2:35:23 pm
I am happy to see that there is dis-satisfaction, no even anger, among the thinking muslims against the tyrannical behavior of the masjid rulers!!
#44 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 11, 2003 6:18:21 am
ZahraJ
786/92
assalamu alaykum. Peace be upon you from my heart to your heart. To proceed:
- Has any Pir or their Mureed ever addressed the issues with extremism in Mureedi?
Please define what you mean by ```extremism`` in mureedi`? Generally though--if I have understood your q properly (and apologies I have haven`t)--a person must check the authenticity of the pir in the light of Shariah to ensure he is not a fraud but a genuine wali who can lead the mureed to Allah. Once he is sure his pir is authentic then he should do bayah. Once he has done bayah though all of the great Sufis are agreed on this that he/she should then be like a dead corpse in the hands of his Pir ie he should no longer have any desires of his own but do anything and everything his pir tells him. If the pir tells him to jump in the fire he jumps without hesitation. Doubting the Pir will prevent the murid obtaining faiz...
- Has anyone of them ever spoken about mum`noo adjectives?
Whatever is mumnoo in Shariah is mumnoo for all Muslims whether they are murids or not. A real Pir must of necessity be an alim too but not every alim is a Pir! So yes every real Pir will have mentioned this issue of guarding one`s tongue (and thus I guess by extension guarding one`s written words too).
- Has any one of them ever shared their discourses on communication with women? Use and/or abuse of smiles!
Discourse on communication with women can be asked of any alim or Pir as it comes under a general aspect of fiqh. As for the use of smiles do you mean smilies which are used now in text?
- Has any one of them advised the Muslim Men to behave in a civilized manner and also articulated clearly the rules and regulations on civilization?
Of course. The whole of Islam and the Sufi path which is Islam`s highest expression is about attaining Adab and perfecting one`s character where good adab of course is defined by doing that which the Messenger sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam did or encouraged us to do (his sunnah) and leaving that which he forbade us from. A true wali is one who practises the Sunnah in toto as much as possible humanly.
If there is one who addressed the above pointers, I would be very keen to glance through his writings.
Many great walis/pirs have written on such matters. Probably those whose writings are most widely available in English translations are:
1. Imam Ghazzali.
2. Shaykh Abd al Qadir al Jilani (al Ghawth al Azam)
I do not know where you are in the world but here is a list of some real authentic living pirs whom you could ask directly too:-
In Pakistan:
Sayyid Afzal Hussain Shah Jama`ati sahib (Alipur Sharif, Narowal, Sialkot)
Sayyid Shah Abdul Haqq Sahib (Golra Sharif, Islamabad)
Sayyid Nasiruddin Nasir (Golra Sharif, Islamabad)
Hazrat Muhammad Ilyas Qadri Attaari (Karachi)
Sayyid Irfan Shah Mashadi (Multan?)
Sahibzada Abu`l Hasanat Shah s/o Pir Karam Shah (Bhera Sharif)
Mawlana Ahmad Shah Noorani (Karachi)
In India:
Sayyid Muhammad Madani Mian (Kachchocha Sharif, Faizabad, UP)
Sayyid Muhammad Hashmi MIan (ditto)
Mufti Akhtar Riza Khan sahib al Azhari (Bareilly Sharif, UP)
In the UK:
Sayyid Munawwar Hussain Shah Jama`ati (Birmingham)
Sayyid Abdul Qadir Shah Jilani (London)
Pirzada Muhammad Imdad Hussain (Nottingham)
Shaykh Abu Bakr as Sudani (London)
Pir Maruf Hussain Shah sahib (Bradford)
In the USA:
Shaykh Hisham Kabbani Naqshbandi Haqqani
Shaykh Nuh Ha Meem Keller (but now lives in Kuwait)
Other scholars of great repute (but not pirs you can also rely on)
Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad (Cambridge, UK)
The following pir/walis are great men and often visit the UK/USA for lectures., Meeting them is a must and will solve all your problems:
Sayyid Habib Ali al Jifri (from Yemen)
Sayyid Habib Umar (from Yemen)
Sayyid Muhammad al Yaqoubi (from Syria)
These 3 above often visit the Zaytuna institute of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf in Santa Clara, California.
Also from Syria:
Shaykh Ahmad al Kuftaro Naqshbandi (Grand MUfti of Syria)
From Turkey/Cyprus:
Shaykh Nazim al Haqqani
Saudi Arabia:
Sayyid Muhammad Alawi al Maliki
Kuwait:
Sayyid Yusuf al Rifai
*************
There are many other awliya in the world but the above are enough I think. Surely one of them will be in a place near you or where you can see them at some time!
I hope I have been of help. Please forgive any lack of adab on my part in any of my posts.
wasalam
ps If you can read Urdu you are urged to read the works of Imam Ahmad Riza Khan too.
www.sunnirazvi.org will give you a good introduction to this great reviver of the 14th century hijri. Also visit www.alahazrat.net and Ala Hazrat Yahoo Group
(the site is in English)
Asif
Please advise.
Thank You.
786/92
assalamu alaykum. Peace be upon you from my heart to your heart. To proceed:
- Has any Pir or their Mureed ever addressed the issues with extremism in Mureedi?
Please define what you mean by ```extremism`` in mureedi`? Generally though--if I have understood your q properly (and apologies I have haven`t)--a person must check the authenticity of the pir in the light of Shariah to ensure he is not a fraud but a genuine wali who can lead the mureed to Allah. Once he is sure his pir is authentic then he should do bayah. Once he has done bayah though all of the great Sufis are agreed on this that he/she should then be like a dead corpse in the hands of his Pir ie he should no longer have any desires of his own but do anything and everything his pir tells him. If the pir tells him to jump in the fire he jumps without hesitation. Doubting the Pir will prevent the murid obtaining faiz...
- Has anyone of them ever spoken about mum`noo adjectives?
Whatever is mumnoo in Shariah is mumnoo for all Muslims whether they are murids or not. A real Pir must of necessity be an alim too but not every alim is a Pir! So yes every real Pir will have mentioned this issue of guarding one`s tongue (and thus I guess by extension guarding one`s written words too).
- Has any one of them ever shared their discourses on communication with women? Use and/or abuse of smiles!
Discourse on communication with women can be asked of any alim or Pir as it comes under a general aspect of fiqh. As for the use of smiles do you mean smilies which are used now in text?
- Has any one of them advised the Muslim Men to behave in a civilized manner and also articulated clearly the rules and regulations on civilization?
Of course. The whole of Islam and the Sufi path which is Islam`s highest expression is about attaining Adab and perfecting one`s character where good adab of course is defined by doing that which the Messenger sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam did or encouraged us to do (his sunnah) and leaving that which he forbade us from. A true wali is one who practises the Sunnah in toto as much as possible humanly.
If there is one who addressed the above pointers, I would be very keen to glance through his writings.
Many great walis/pirs have written on such matters. Probably those whose writings are most widely available in English translations are:
1. Imam Ghazzali.
2. Shaykh Abd al Qadir al Jilani (al Ghawth al Azam)
I do not know where you are in the world but here is a list of some real authentic living pirs whom you could ask directly too:-
In Pakistan:
Sayyid Afzal Hussain Shah Jama`ati sahib (Alipur Sharif, Narowal, Sialkot)
Sayyid Shah Abdul Haqq Sahib (Golra Sharif, Islamabad)
Sayyid Nasiruddin Nasir (Golra Sharif, Islamabad)
Hazrat Muhammad Ilyas Qadri Attaari (Karachi)
Sayyid Irfan Shah Mashadi (Multan?)
Sahibzada Abu`l Hasanat Shah s/o Pir Karam Shah (Bhera Sharif)
Mawlana Ahmad Shah Noorani (Karachi)
In India:
Sayyid Muhammad Madani Mian (Kachchocha Sharif, Faizabad, UP)
Sayyid Muhammad Hashmi MIan (ditto)
Mufti Akhtar Riza Khan sahib al Azhari (Bareilly Sharif, UP)
In the UK:
Sayyid Munawwar Hussain Shah Jama`ati (Birmingham)
Sayyid Abdul Qadir Shah Jilani (London)
Pirzada Muhammad Imdad Hussain (Nottingham)
Shaykh Abu Bakr as Sudani (London)
Pir Maruf Hussain Shah sahib (Bradford)
In the USA:
Shaykh Hisham Kabbani Naqshbandi Haqqani
Shaykh Nuh Ha Meem Keller (but now lives in Kuwait)
Other scholars of great repute (but not pirs you can also rely on)
Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad (Cambridge, UK)
The following pir/walis are great men and often visit the UK/USA for lectures., Meeting them is a must and will solve all your problems:
Sayyid Habib Ali al Jifri (from Yemen)
Sayyid Habib Umar (from Yemen)
Sayyid Muhammad al Yaqoubi (from Syria)
These 3 above often visit the Zaytuna institute of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf in Santa Clara, California.
Also from Syria:
Shaykh Ahmad al Kuftaro Naqshbandi (Grand MUfti of Syria)
From Turkey/Cyprus:
Shaykh Nazim al Haqqani
Saudi Arabia:
Sayyid Muhammad Alawi al Maliki
Kuwait:
Sayyid Yusuf al Rifai
*************
There are many other awliya in the world but the above are enough I think. Surely one of them will be in a place near you or where you can see them at some time!
I hope I have been of help. Please forgive any lack of adab on my part in any of my posts.
wasalam
ps If you can read Urdu you are urged to read the works of Imam Ahmad Riza Khan too.
www.sunnirazvi.org will give you a good introduction to this great reviver of the 14th century hijri. Also visit www.alahazrat.net and Ala Hazrat Yahoo Group
(the site is in English)
Asif
Please advise.
Thank You.
#43 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 11, 2003 6:18:21 am
BTW if anyone wants to know the traditional islamic view on any matter (for research for example) the following websites are highly recommended:
http://www.nooremadinah.net/RazaEMustafa/QA/QA.html
www.dawateislami.net (Ask the Imam)
www.sunnipath.com (for written replies to queries ie online fatwas)
these two sites are the best for written material by far:
http://www.abc.se/~m9783/
www.sunnah.org/topics/
and the best site for hearing thousands of the great ulama speaking in real audio
www.yanabi.com
(voice of islam section)
www.nooremadinah.net
www.alhabibali.org
http://www.nooremadinah.net/RazaEMustafa/QA/QA.html
www.dawateislami.net (Ask the Imam)
www.sunnipath.com (for written replies to queries ie online fatwas)
these two sites are the best for written material by far:
http://www.abc.se/~m9783/
www.sunnah.org/topics/
and the best site for hearing thousands of the great ulama speaking in real audio
www.yanabi.com
(voice of islam section)
www.nooremadinah.net
www.alhabibali.org
#42 Posted by saminshah on August 11, 2003 12:25:46 am
#37 nasah
``and let me tell you samin shah -- it`s a great personal relief to know that your are NOT Saminasha:-) ``
astleast i m not as bad as u beleive.thanks
Islamic economics
There are many practices and teachings of Islam that inhibit economic development. The nature of Islamic education, the prohibition on interest and the efficiency of capital markets limit motivation and investment. Conflicts between secular and sharia law, lack of freedom of speech, democracy, political transparency and vulnerability to financial mal-practice limit to some degree the effectiveness of institutions in Islamic society. In addition, the time devoted to daily religious observances and annual festivals such as Ramadan detract from time available for economically productive activities to a greater extent than other religions. For all these reasons it is relevant to consider in greater detail the nature of Islamic thought and its impact on society and the economy.
Islamic economics
For Muslims, Islam is not merely a religion but a way of life in which it is necessary to know and apply the Quran. As Muslims regard the Quran is the infallible word of God, it is a determining factor in Islamic behavior and society. Its verses are not considered to be mere teachings but directives to believers. Of these, perhaps one of the most defining appears on the first line, which is ``This book is not to be doubted`` (1:1). References to the power of God in the Quran reinforce the need to obey His commands. Many of these commands apply to religious customs, social behavior, and other areas including those of relevance to commerce and economics.
Economics is a social science devoted to studying the production, distribution, and consumption of wealth. It is the study of the nature of factors which determine production and consumption of goods and services and the relevance of this to human welfare. In what may seem surprising to economists elsewhere, Islamic scholars have developed a whole literature of economic discussion with reference to Islam. In this school of thought known as ``Islamic economics``, economic issues are evaluated in relation to Quranic principles, and mainstream economics is referred to as ``materialist economics``. The motivation for this formulation is the belief that capitalism has failed humanity because it is inequitable.
In the Islamic economic school of thought, the distribution of wealth, rather than the production of wealth, is considered to be the primary concern. To determine this distribution, is necessary to consider divine guidance. It is said that while Islam approves of economic progress, this is only a secondary consideration. The production of wealth is considered to arise necessarily from the production of the necessities of life. Whereas materialist economics is concerned with welfare, Islamic economics is concerned with proper conduct in preparation for the afterlife. Each of the following tenets used in Islamic economics are derived from quotations from the Quran. All wealth is created by God. It is therefore his property. Property and wealth can only be used for God’s purpose. The poor and the needy are entitled to wealth by right. Wealth should be shared not concentrated. Islam prohibits the lending of money for interest. Risk should not be born by the borrower but by the lender. The borrower may enter an agreement of partnership or co-operation with the lender. The lender can share the profits. However if there is no interest the borrower may bear the risk of loss. This will have a beneficial effect on the distribution of wealth. Employers must treat employees well and employees must perform their duties.
In addition to these economic directives, there are rules of taxation and inheritance that are defined in some detail. In many cases some reason or explanation is provided in the Quran for these injunctions. It the case of the prohibition on interest, this is stated but without any clarifying explanation. The lack of any explanation is held as further evidence of God’s wisdom. The rules as decreed in the Quran are not moral codes but legal injunctions, enforced by fear of God and anxiety about the afterlife. Depending on the country, these rules may also be enshrined in legislation.
Muslims are motivated by the ``call of Islam``, where they believe it is their duty to bring Islam to the entire world. They see the rest of the world as sick, immoral, tired of materialism and in need of salvation. They recognize that Islam has fallen behind in education, administration, commerce, scientific knowledge, industry and social services. However they see the application of religious life, not as the cause of this problem but as the solution. This leads to the desire to adopt Islam more thoroughly. By bringing a message that Islam stands for social justice and human values, they hope to convince the world of the righteousness of this path.
While Islamist to some extent reject the objectives of economic development, they also commonly see their relative poverty as being caused by Western failure or malevolence. They see international financiers as effectively defrauding developing countries. They see the failure of development efforts and widening gaps between rich and poor as evidence of this. They also see development as an attempt to transplant Western values and to undermine Islamic values, and as a form of cultural imperialism, which is divisive and inappropriate. They seek an alternative development strategy. To the islamist it must seem incongruous that as God is the source and owner of all wealth, that he should apparently bestow more of it upon non-Muslims. thats start confilts and diehard proverty
``and let me tell you samin shah -- it`s a great personal relief to know that your are NOT Saminasha:-) ``
astleast i m not as bad as u beleive.thanks
Islamic economics
There are many practices and teachings of Islam that inhibit economic development. The nature of Islamic education, the prohibition on interest and the efficiency of capital markets limit motivation and investment. Conflicts between secular and sharia law, lack of freedom of speech, democracy, political transparency and vulnerability to financial mal-practice limit to some degree the effectiveness of institutions in Islamic society. In addition, the time devoted to daily religious observances and annual festivals such as Ramadan detract from time available for economically productive activities to a greater extent than other religions. For all these reasons it is relevant to consider in greater detail the nature of Islamic thought and its impact on society and the economy.
Islamic economics
For Muslims, Islam is not merely a religion but a way of life in which it is necessary to know and apply the Quran. As Muslims regard the Quran is the infallible word of God, it is a determining factor in Islamic behavior and society. Its verses are not considered to be mere teachings but directives to believers. Of these, perhaps one of the most defining appears on the first line, which is ``This book is not to be doubted`` (1:1). References to the power of God in the Quran reinforce the need to obey His commands. Many of these commands apply to religious customs, social behavior, and other areas including those of relevance to commerce and economics.
Economics is a social science devoted to studying the production, distribution, and consumption of wealth. It is the study of the nature of factors which determine production and consumption of goods and services and the relevance of this to human welfare. In what may seem surprising to economists elsewhere, Islamic scholars have developed a whole literature of economic discussion with reference to Islam. In this school of thought known as ``Islamic economics``, economic issues are evaluated in relation to Quranic principles, and mainstream economics is referred to as ``materialist economics``. The motivation for this formulation is the belief that capitalism has failed humanity because it is inequitable.
In the Islamic economic school of thought, the distribution of wealth, rather than the production of wealth, is considered to be the primary concern. To determine this distribution, is necessary to consider divine guidance. It is said that while Islam approves of economic progress, this is only a secondary consideration. The production of wealth is considered to arise necessarily from the production of the necessities of life. Whereas materialist economics is concerned with welfare, Islamic economics is concerned with proper conduct in preparation for the afterlife. Each of the following tenets used in Islamic economics are derived from quotations from the Quran. All wealth is created by God. It is therefore his property. Property and wealth can only be used for God’s purpose. The poor and the needy are entitled to wealth by right. Wealth should be shared not concentrated. Islam prohibits the lending of money for interest. Risk should not be born by the borrower but by the lender. The borrower may enter an agreement of partnership or co-operation with the lender. The lender can share the profits. However if there is no interest the borrower may bear the risk of loss. This will have a beneficial effect on the distribution of wealth. Employers must treat employees well and employees must perform their duties.
In addition to these economic directives, there are rules of taxation and inheritance that are defined in some detail. In many cases some reason or explanation is provided in the Quran for these injunctions. It the case of the prohibition on interest, this is stated but without any clarifying explanation. The lack of any explanation is held as further evidence of God’s wisdom. The rules as decreed in the Quran are not moral codes but legal injunctions, enforced by fear of God and anxiety about the afterlife. Depending on the country, these rules may also be enshrined in legislation.
Muslims are motivated by the ``call of Islam``, where they believe it is their duty to bring Islam to the entire world. They see the rest of the world as sick, immoral, tired of materialism and in need of salvation. They recognize that Islam has fallen behind in education, administration, commerce, scientific knowledge, industry and social services. However they see the application of religious life, not as the cause of this problem but as the solution. This leads to the desire to adopt Islam more thoroughly. By bringing a message that Islam stands for social justice and human values, they hope to convince the world of the righteousness of this path.
While Islamist to some extent reject the objectives of economic development, they also commonly see their relative poverty as being caused by Western failure or malevolence. They see international financiers as effectively defrauding developing countries. They see the failure of development efforts and widening gaps between rich and poor as evidence of this. They also see development as an attempt to transplant Western values and to undermine Islamic values, and as a form of cultural imperialism, which is divisive and inappropriate. They seek an alternative development strategy. To the islamist it must seem incongruous that as God is the source and owner of all wealth, that he should apparently bestow more of it upon non-Muslims. thats start confilts and diehard proverty
#41 Posted by ZahraJ on August 10, 2003 9:48:51 pm
Brother Naqshbandi:
- Has any Pir or their Mureed ever addressed the issues with extremism in Mureedi?
- Has anyone of them ever spoken about mum`noo adjectives?
- Has any one of them ever shared their discourses on communication with women? Use and/or abuse of smiles!
- Has any one of them advised the Muslim Men to behave in a civilized manner and also articulated clearly the rules and regulations on civilization?
If there is one who addressed the above pointers, I would be very keen to glance through his writings.
Please advise.
Thank You.
- Has any Pir or their Mureed ever addressed the issues with extremism in Mureedi?
- Has anyone of them ever spoken about mum`noo adjectives?
- Has any one of them ever shared their discourses on communication with women? Use and/or abuse of smiles!
- Has any one of them advised the Muslim Men to behave in a civilized manner and also articulated clearly the rules and regulations on civilization?
If there is one who addressed the above pointers, I would be very keen to glance through his writings.
Please advise.
Thank You.
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