Farzana and Me

re: HN

Harish, local leadership will surely and slowly evolve as the established leadership fails to answer and solve the political issues and in fact, seems to create more of a rift in issues than in bridging them.

The key towards the rise of the local leadership will be proportional to the levels of discredit, which the centralized leadership incurs. It is a question about political legitmacy and that too, in a perceptional sense and there is a growing sense of disenchantment with the established cadres of political power and this can be seen in the levels of political apathy that are manifesting themselves systematically in the politics of Pakistan (though I cannot speak for India but I am sure that a similar pattern applies there too).

Ciao

Dear All,

I think this board has turned it self into a theological gutter. I feel as if I am in the dark ages with all those zealot creeps trying publish their slogans for the net ummah. I think this is no place for guys like me. bye.........

Faruk,Dost,t, Sadna,Plats, Stuka,

No, I did not mean separate religious constituencies. Pox be on that idea. What I emant is, that too many politicians still thrive on the idea of a unified community, however mystical it might be.

We need to have local leadership thriving, wherever possible. The more such leaders on the scene, the better. It does not matter which community, or even which party they belong to. Yes, elections are fought often on these developmental issues. In fact the latest assembly elections suggest that development is moving centrestage.

Faruk, I did not advocate the worse, as you feared. No, what I am saying is local leadership, if sufficiently plural, will help the causes of marginalised communities more. I think more and more confident people from a variety of backgrounds will help their communities to move ahead.

I think, one great confidence booster for victimised communities is more and more immediate role models. Azim Premji as the role model of an Azamgarh lad sounds less likely to be an inspiration. Shabana Azmi woiuld work better there.

``They are still not that much better off today. ``

Well, the leaders certainly are, and they placate the masses.

Ref dost-mittar #144

[Re. the issue of general schools replacing madrassas, it cannot be done -I think- without a change in the constitution which guarantees minorities complete control over their educational institutions.]

The courts have already ruled that educational institutions run by minorities can have complete management control -- including right to admit whom they want.

I see advertisements in Tamil Nadu from private engineering colleges stating they are a minority institution; the minorities being a religious minority such as Christian or -- this gets better -- linguistic as being run by Telugus in a Tamil-speaking state! I believe 50% of the seats are reserved for admission by the Directorate of Technical Education and the other 50% is available for sale to the highest bidder such as Inji-kari-kuzhambu who claims to have upgraded his preferred condiment to Soysauce.

dost-mittar #141
IMO, India is blessed NOT to have separate electorates for Hindus, Muslims. Dalits, for example in which rigidly defined communities rigidly remain in their own political sphere, with their resp. representatives having no stake in each other`s causes. That system really pits one community against another.

A pluralist democracy with combined electorates needs a combination of BOTH types of politicians and politics, ie, those who arise from their community and graduate to wider issues (such as the Hindu-Muslim divide) and those who from the start are not tied to causes of religious identity. These impulses can then compete with each other and the people get sufficient choice. Democracy needs choice.

For example, like Akali Dal and Manmohan Singh/Amarinder Singh are both relevant to the Sikh community and to India or Ahmed (IUML, Kerala) and MJ Akbar(in the past) are both relevant too.

Its also a matter of practical politics as HN points out. A lot of politicians begin in the local neighbourhood or local chamber of commerce/community organisation, and then build on that to win wider influence.

Being able to span communities/region is a skill which is needed to different extents, depending on the type of politics/neighbourhood/issue/ideology/competition.

For instance if Ms Mayawati wants to beat Dalit leaders in rival parties(or wants to widen her support base to nonDalits to get an edge), she may or maynot find it expedient to champion other causes than Dalit. Or if Ms Jayalalitha wanted to exert influence in national affairs, she would need champion causes/build bases outside her region(Laloo is trying this)

India needs all kinds of politics, including Muslim politics, within community/region as well as spanning community/region.

Correction : A pluralist democracy with combined electorates needs a combination of BOTH types of politicians and politics, ie, those who arise from their community and graduate to wider issues (such as SPANNING the Hindu-Muslim divide) and those who from the start are not tied to causes of religious identity.

Dost/temporal #146,

Yes, there is an ongoing effort to reform Madrasa syllabi in various parts of the
country. As you can imagine, this needs to be done gently, as to not offend
sensibilities. The govt in West Bengal has been trying to do this, and there were
some success stories that I remember reading. Apparently, one particular Madrasa
has had students do very well in the state-wide exams. Incidentally it also
has a substantial number of Hindu students who find it better than any of the
other schools nearby.

Re : HN dost-mittar
I have a fundamentally different opinion on the kind of political leadership you advocate. I think I can appreciate the affiliation people feel towards political leaders from their “community”. The word “community” with the same connotation that dost-mittar used. But I don’t think anyone who needs anything other than competence for the post is a good choice.
I don’t think more muslims in parliament will help the muslim community in India. It’s the quality of leadership that matters. The political leaders don’t have to be muslims. The SC/ST have had reservation in parliament for over 50 yrs. They are still not that much better off today.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: HN # 142
If what you are saying is true then I don’t think Indian Muslims have a hope. I don’t agree that is the case though. I think the issues that win elections are the same for all Indians. By the way there aren’t that many muslim dominated constituencies in India.

Regards,

Faruk

t:
I believe they can and they do, to some extent. Someone else may correct me but I think that there are no rules for elementary schools, but for high school certificate, the schools have to prepare their students for a state-vide or a nation-vide examination and cover the prescribed syllabus.

dost:

re: complete control...

can the state not legislate some mandatory subjects to be taught in the madrasas?

what about local languages?...are they not mandatory in madrasas?....if they are/can be...then perhaps another solution would be to introduce mathematics and sciences etc. as mandatory subjects...to diliute the effects?

HN:
Are you suggesting that the muslim vote in India cannot be won on the basis of the roti-kapada-makan or its remake, bijali-sarak-pani issue? I would hope not.
Re. the issue of general schools replacing madrassas, it cannot be done -I think- without a change in the constitution which guarantees minorities complete control over their educational institutions.

Harish:

what dost says re: francophone ministers being looked upon to serve their constituents is not without merit... but in India that may well apply only in Kashmir...on the bigger canvas...i can only hope...that a responsive hindu/muslim (can’t have one without the other) leadership would emerge...in a manner it would be classic catch-22...as the muslims become more active in politics they will reap the social and economic benefits...BUT for them to become more active they have to come out of physical as well as mental ghettoes...

...this economic empowerment...(am looking at the big picture)...will benefit all indians...of necessity this will be a slow and long haul process...stuka has made a good suggestion re: inclusion from the primary level up…

...am not sure if the `right` leadership can be `created`...it would have to evolve...

...in this the `intelligentsia` and the `media` have to play the catalyst…will they?

…t

ps: has Congress petered out?...can an effective national party emerge out of the ashes?...for how long sonia will play the ‘regent’?...what is the potential of the daughter…forget her name...does she have killer instincts or just another pretty face with the right name?

Dost,

``Do we want a politician who advocates more madrassas and haj subsidies or the one who wants more scholarships for muslims to assist them to compete with others on an equal footing?``

Dost, what you say is rational only in a chatshow like chowk. In real India, democratic India too, many leaders who share your ethusiasm for such ``cut & dry`` rationalism will rather emphsise the former, even while they push for the later. Because, if he did not do the former, he has no hope for the later. He has to be alive, as in democratically/politically, to pursue his own rational options. He cannot afford to forsake his bread and butter issues. In an obvious case where these issues matter: meaning Muslim dominated constituencies, he would have to plug for the first half of your options more publicly than the second. And, unless he succeeds in that effort, the second option will ephemeral.

stuka, faruk, plats8:
There seems to be some confusion regarding Indian and community leaders. First of all, I dont think that anybody is advocating faith based parties, although communal parties are a fact of life, whether based on faith, such as Akalis and Indain Muslim League of Kerala, or caste-based parties, such as BSP although it has been trying to expand its base beyond its dalit core. I, for one, am not in their favour.
But the fact of life is that people do identify with their own group. Not necessarily in a party of their own but to the people of their community in a party. This was always the case - even during the days when Nehru was accepted as the undisputed leader of all Indians, muslims still looked up to Maulana Azaad to safeguard their interests. I do not see anything wrong in this, especially when it concerns minorities. I see this in Canada all the time when francophones do expect French Canadian ministers to look after their particular interests; same wrt black politicians in the US. For example, a muslim politician is more likely to insist that his community gets a better representation when a party is deciding on its nominees for elections than a hindu politician. The point is what kind of politician should be there? Do we want a politician who advocates more madrassas and haj subsidies or the one who wants more scholarships for muslims to assist them to compete with others on an equal footing? Unfortunately, the muslim politicians so far have preferred the former over the latter objective.
Re. Salman Khurshid, I too have not heard anything about him lately. The last I read, he was chosen by Sonia to be the chief of the party in UP. From the mess the party is in that state, his performance seems to be less than stellar.