Separate Destinies?

Does Farm IV contain also declaration about belief in `Allah` or `Khuda` or `God`? Again should it contain merely a declaration about a belief in Islamic rituals, the most important of which according to `Deene Mulla` is `Namaz`, which in fact is the ritual of the `Fire Worshippers` (Aatish Parast)? It is a very tricky technical question indeed which the mulla
prop up again and again due to fear of Ahmadies whom they consider a danger to their profession oblivios of the fact that it would be harmful to Islam and Pakistan.

The removal of the post 255 is giving the wrong impression. I request the chowk staff to please restore it. It was a post stating simply that I had mistakenly used my wife`s ID.

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Similarly on this board... the only post that has been deleted is the one in which I informed the Chowk staff that I had mistakenly used my wife`s ID...

The posts in which I allegedly abused Sadna stand as they were.

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Dr Ambedkar`s comment in the previous post, and H V Hodson`s comment posted earlier were made in academic books written on the issue of partition... Dr. Ambedkar`s book was written during the time Jinnah was alive ... and H V Hodson`s book was a thorough research on why partition happened. The quotes that I have put up were in that line... the emphasis has been made on the fact that since Jinnah`s incorruptibility was unquestionable, and according to Dr. Ambedkar atleast he was most incorruptible amongst those whose integrity we don`t even dare to question (Gandhi, Nehru, Ghaffar Khan) ... the Indian nationalist explanation for his conversion to Muslim separatism fails.

``At the same time, it is doubtful if there is a politician in India to whom the adjective incorruptible can be more fittingly applied. Anyone who knows what his relations with the British Government have been, will admit that he has always been their critic, if indeed, he has not been their adversary. No one can buy him. For it must be said to his credit that he has never been a soldier of fortune. The customary Hindu explanation fails to account for the ideological transformation of Mr. Jinnah.``

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Mantolives-

Before I go into how I look at Jinnah, I wanna take this sort of ‘compliments to Jinnah’ as quoted by you to represent the character of Jinnah, out of the way. As I had said in my previous post on the subject, people would not disparage a dead head of State and or a politician and that is not only part of our culture but also a part of common decency to any dead person- celebrity or not, everywhere. The value of these comments is what it is; just some good words for a dead head of state or a living politician. Now, if you desire to insist on these referrals to prove your ultimate point that Jinnah was an honest person with huge integrity then I may say that that was never a point in this whole debate.

Now, for the argument sake; Gandhi, Nehru, Azad and Ghaffar Khan or many other’s honesty and personal integrity was never a shade below or any less than what is attributed to Jinnah. So there really was not any thing unique that Jinnah brought to the table. Those were, and I hope still are, common middleclass feudal influenced values.

Lastly, if I may recall correctly from the history books, Jinnah never had any personal friends to speak of. He pretty much disassociated himself from his less educated and poor family, his wife never commented on his person in public or even his sister Fatima Jinnah, who was also housekeeper for Jinnah, never said anything at all about Jinnah’s personal life and traits. Many have deduced many things but nothing of value from any of the above sources.

Some of the people that you have quoted barring Gandhi and Nehru never came too close to Jinnah in his personal or Professional life. They might have interacted with him in some limited way or on some issues but to say that their words were mighty endorsement for Jinnah and that places Jinnah on a very high pedestal would be a travesty.

The Person, who probably really knew Jinnah more than anybody else in India, was none other than Gandhi himself. This may surprise you but often an opponent knows a person better than the friends. Gandhi worked with Jinnah from almost 1916 onwards and very closely at times until 1930 or until the time Jinnah left for England. Even afterwards they were interacting frequently, more frequently than any other person you quoted.

To say that Gandhi or even Nehru would have badmouthed Jinnah would be beyond the person of both Gandhi and Nehru. That was not the way they were. Similarly, I hope you may have also noticed that Jinnah himself never disparaged or said any thing demeaning ever, for Gandhi or Nehru. See that’s how these people were, Political disagreements never clouded their personal opinions about each other.

The purpose of the above is not to belittle or trivialize Jinnah’s personal Integrity or honesty or Intelligence. Here we can continue to add to each other’s promiscuous vocabulary or discuss the whole issue as it comes into play in some appropriate context and that context would be his politics. If we were to continue this conversation, I would rather have some parameters like Jinnah as a politician, his politics or his legacy- established to set up some type of common reference points.


If that’s something you find worth the discussions or there is something that you wish to add to this then that’s fine too.

There are two ways to do this. One is more common on this board- and that is confrontational; the current way. You pick some thing from my post or I pick something from your post and we berate each other. The other way is that we both argue our points in sort of parallel and then exchange notes to see where we agree or disagree and decide to move further with it or end it as we please.

If not, then we already have a spittoon in the middle.

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I will be a `thanda ghost` when you accept that you are a liar (ref: truman, clinton)

CoolAl!

It is the same book. My mistake! the foreward is by Ram Jethmalani.

Montolives!

You are not on my list until the Sunday evening. So hang in there and I repsond to your posts and blew you away!!!

After that you will be a ``Thanda Gosht`` !