Apostasy and Islam

zeemax:
you dont have to make a guess about my intentions. Feel free to believe anything about me.

I asked this question in response to ``how the real world works`` point. Each and every group of people in this world that find a label and actualize themselves collectively under a label have right to have power and control over their collective destiny.

My question was to see, if it was a legitimate comparison (for you) between two groups namely, Arabs and Chinese and their response to what they term as a ``foreign`` threat on their soil. Chinese game is to empower the monolith(chinese gov.) first. Arabs would rather like to confront the enemy directly on the battlefield where they have no chance of winning and with that choice they (the controllers of power, mullas, oil sheikhs, shia rahbars of iran) will bring further misery and grief on their people.

Re: # 653
``What is the rationale for ``Meek Shall Inherit The Earth? ``

It is an oxymoron.

What is the rationale for ``Meek Shall Inherit The Earth?

Re: # 651

Zeemax
If I may answer partly , I don`t think there is any alternative to power. All that rot about the meek shall inherit the earth .. is rot. They may but they will not keep it for long.

However about power itself there are different types. Even those who wield aggressive power eventually succumb because of the effort needed to maintain it. That is why civilisations collapse. Hasn`t it been so all along?

The Roman empire perished to the barbaric germanic tribes, Indian kingdoms in an advanced stage of decay perished to the Arab/Persian armies etc because they were unable to sustain the energy required for acquiring and maintaining power. They became decadent and hedonistic.

Actually there are some holes in my theory that I will try to mull over. Got to think a little more on this.

#649 by Raw_Dust

Hmmm... answering questions with questions is the oldest trick in the book to avoid answering ...

Nevertheless, I`ll take your bait .... No, the two situations are NOT comparable. Because, Chinese KNOW Taiwan will revert to them sooner or later just as Hong Kong and Macau did, AND they also know that if the need arises they can run over Taiwan in approximately half a day, US or no US. So why make such a big fuss ?.... They`re just letting Taiwan have some fun like a delinquent kid playing hookey.

Now kindly answer my question. Is there an alternative to `power`?

and how is it mind boggling?

``Is there any room for free speech, individual choice and rationalism in the Muslim world?`` How can there be?

but yes, good to explore this issue. it`s really messed up and has to be sorted out, whether islam likes it or not.

zeemax:
regarding your question: I wanna ask something:
Do you see if these two situations are comparable or not:

1 - chinese response to US` meddling in taiwan
2 - Arab`s response to palestinian problem that US is definitely part of.

why chinese wont go out in western capitals blow themselves up to protest American interference in their homeland?

#647, Ram Bhai,
I think that Mr. Rsridhar has provided ample proof on another board about Mr. Modi, his cohorts, and the right-wing Hindutca types. At least you are honest enough to admit admiration for Nathuram Godse. To me, that is enough proof of your identity. Thanks.

#619 by Salim_Chauhan


[Ram Bhai,
Thank you for honestly stating that you don`t agree with Gandhiji`s philosophy of non-violence. After all, he was murdered by Hindus who felt as you do.]

Murdering someone for their viewpoint is an Islamic trait. Although Nathuram Godse had no right to take the law in his own gands, and was rightfully hanged, I do agree with his views on Gandhi. It is because of Gandhi that ``Succoolarism`` has beome such a buzzword in Indian politics - where, although Hindus are in the majority, it is open season on their citizens and places of worship, but never a bomb blast in a mosque.


[It is clear that you are representing the viewpoint of that hate-filled group of BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/SP/JS who are no better than the JI/LeT/Al-Kayda/JeM/SS nuts who go around blowing up themselves and others.]

It is the Islamists` fervent dream to be able to show that every religion is just as bad as Islam, and the Animist Shintos pose just as grave a threat to the world as do Islamists.

You are pretty adept at lying, because you have NEVER been able to back up ANY of your statements.

FOR EXAMPLE, why don`t you list out the activities of the BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/SP/JS on one hand, and the JI/LeT/Al-Kayda/JeM/SS on the other hand, and we shall see how they compare against each other.

But you won`t. Because you can`t. This is why lying, for Muslims, IS THE ONLY WAY OUT.



[The main difference between your kind and people like me is that we don`t don uniforms and then act mindlessly based on ``my side - right or wrong!``]

I`m not sure what that means.


[You ask for facts, but I cannot feed you the nonsense that you are accustomed to consuming - such as the facts from the ``Sword of Truth`` website. Such right-wing Hindu sources of information have all the facts about Gandhiji, the Holy Prophet (PBUH), Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Feroze (Khan) Gandhi :) Sanjay Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and others.]

:)

``I cannot feed you the nonsense that you are accustomed to consuming`` - then feed me sensible, good information. :))

I know, you cannot. Because your arguments are faith-based.



[Go ahead and live in your hate-filled world of Muslim-bashing.]

It is the FACTS that bash the Muslims - I merely state them. All you have to do is show how my facts are wrong.

But you are not able to.


[I have better ways to look at my fellow human beings.]

When I speak about Mohammed (with evidence and proof), I am Muslim-bashing.

When you speak about BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/SP/JS (without providing any evidence or proof), you are just being objective.


Strange, isn`t it?

Re: # 636
[aktaie:
actually, all these che guevara wannabe pakistani islamists were rooting for mujahideen against infidel communists in the Afghan Jihad which was incorporated in the US Congress. :-) ]

I don`t think you understand what I said. Let me repeat what you were replying to:
``In fact, the only worldview that the Islamic world has consistently stood against is that of the West. They chose Hitler over the allies, the USSR over the US and now China over the rest of the world.``

You are an idiot if you think the Islamic world has not tried to ally itself with the USSR, when it has suited it, in the past. Does the name Gamal Abdel Nasser mean nothing to you? Ever heard of the Baath party? Why don`t you look up Pan-Arabism in an encyclopedia?

Re : #644 Bit of a poem

IF the red slayer think he slays,
Or if the slain think he is slain,
They know not well the subtle ways
I keep, and pass, and turn again.

Far or forgot to me is near;
Shadow and sunlight are the same;
The vanish`d gods to me appear;
And one to me are shame and fame.

They reckon ill who leave me out;
When me they fly, I am the wings;
I am the doubter and the doubt,
And I the hymn the Brahmin sings
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson (Brahma)

continuation ..... #643

I have been there and I know. In the end, there`s nothing. Absolutely nothing, but you.

Rgds.

#642 by swarrier

....[ It is the shoddy theoretician, the ideologue, the well-dressed and often well-spoken purveyor of deliberate delusion that replants the seeds and nourishes the harvest of evil from age to age. ]....

Yes. And you thought this sentence was to be savoured like fine wine ....

I remember. What he said was no less than just simply `profound`.

Kaalchakra is a Pir. He is a Sufi. I revere people like that.

You say .....Would the organism notice their deaths? Do we care if our cells die. The dead cells from our skins slough off everyday ....

I say, what if you `yourself` were in each of those cells which shed everyday? What if the entire universe were nothing apart from you? What if you, yourself were the universe, and indeed `God`?

Hey it`s getting too heavy. I gotta go and watch the latest episode of `Lost`.

Cheers :-)

Re: # 640
Zeemax
You know I did think about this a long time ago when I had more than the one brain cell.-) It happened because of all those stories of Brahma and creation and destruction in an endless cycle. But then I decided I was happier designing circuits.

However would the little swarriers and little zeemaxes and all the littles consider their demise final. Would they know when they cease to exist? Would the organism notice their deaths? Do we care if our cells die. The dead cells from our skins slough off everyday, we wash our bathrooms weekly (when my wife is at home and she makes me do it) but we don`t notice their deaths.
But when I cease to exist, for me, that is the end as a individual being? But the universe, it couldn`t care less.

Have you by any chance read a book called ``The Black Cloud`` by Fred Hoyle? It is rather a good book. It does not explore any new concepts of morality or anything , that has not been discussed before . However it is good science fiction.

Kaal can call me anything he wants. -) He wrote this sentence not so long ago so......
[ It is the shoddy theoretician, the ideologue, the well-dressed and often well-spoken purveyor of deliberate delusion that replants the seeds and nourishes the harvest of evil from age to age. ]
Lovely stuff.

#636 by Raw_Dust

Sorry I missed this conjecture:

....They lack any basic understanding of the way real world works....

Really? And how does the real world work? Isn`t it that the big fish eats the small fish? C`mon tell me. I really want to know if there`s an alternative to `power`.

#634 by swarrier

....You said .... I find life a little complicated, a little dirty, a little contradictory. It is even difficult to talk about dignity as anything other than a word. It is not final. Death, now that is final ....

swarrier ... just imagine for a moment .... just one moment ... what if every single molecule in your body contained an entire universe, the same universe, multiplied over and over again, with identical little swarriers and zeemaxes and kaalchakras and everyone else. Never ending or beginning. Just going round and round. Living and dying like ordinary cells do. Would you consider death `final`?

Think about it. We`ll talk again.