Musings of an Immigrant on Culture and Identity

#30, hindvi:
Does your pen-name have anything to do with Amir Khusro?

#32, jang: I can not believe it. You need to read your own #27. You wont find there: ``there are no POST-GODHRA style riots after recent shia-sunni violence. ``
NEED I SAY MORE?

#33, scott: Two points:
1/ Thanks for quoting your logic which clearly establishes that it is you who is the victim of your own presumptions which have no basis in my statements.

2/ Quarrel between India and Pakistan neither was nor is a quarrel beteen two children which can be forgotten and a new slate begun.

WE WILL HAVE TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED WHERE AND COMMITTED BY WHOM.

Above is needed not to fester the wounds but to devise the appropriate steps that can be devised by the ``adults`` on both sides.

#31 Inquirer
Well its like this

``#27 by jang on October 7, 2004 2:20pm PT
Inqy #26

i dont see any post-godhra style riots. so.. ``

then you say

``#28 by Inquirer on October 8, 2004 7:40am PT
#27, jang:You will see that too pretty soon! ``

Then in #26 you had said:
``Note the following to see the consequence of Jinnah-Liaqat wonder!! From Dawn
Start Quote Here -At least 39 killed, 100 wounded in bomb blasts in Multan - End Quote

This will aggravate till Pakistan/is expiate for antimnority bias in 1947. ``
So it looks like that you are getting some satisfaction out of these deaths cos it vindicates some position in your mind. The ``Jinnah-Liaqat wonder`` is here to stay no matter what you think and it has a name - Pakistan. There has always been violence in Pakistan but not like the Godhra kind and please lets not talk about the post-partition one both side were involved. That`s finished done, we are talking about now.

#31 Inquirer

you are misquoting #27. I said, there are no POST-GODHRA style riots after recent shia-sunni violence.

#30, hindvi: It is almost not worth responding to you. Because you have flashed my statements without any comment. None of my comments flashed by you are anti-Islam. But the Islamic people have to open their eyes to see the essentially violent streaks in it. Furthermore, they need to neutralize the Wahhabis within and without.

#29, scott: You have totally misunderstood my comments. Show me where I gloated at Pakistani deaths. I only pointed out the ultimate source of intolerance that is rampant in Pakistan. Jang (#27) was trying to get the satisfaction that Pakistan did not yet have Godhara. As a matter of fact there were so many Godharas between 1947 and 1949 in the then West Pakistan that there are no Hindus left in Pakistan. I only pointed out to him that unless Pakistan learns to respect the minorities the situation will continue to deteriorate. If you are not Indian/Pakistani, I can understand your unfamiliarity with the situation.

check out this post from Physics Phd Inquirer about Islam, muslims in india and in general, he claims he is from Alahabad, but I fear he was taught by our Vedic Astology Professor Murli Manohar Joshi, after all he too is a Phd in physics:





#18 Musharraf: Excerpts from an Interview in NYT on September 28, 2004
HP and Jang:
WHEN WILL YOU LEARN THAT IN ANY NATION MINORITIES ARE NEVER IRRELEVANT AS BOTH OF YOU OPINE.

THAT IS THE CRUX OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INDIA AND PAKISTAN. BETWEEN 17 TH AND 21 ST CENTURY. BETWEEN FUNDAMENTAL INTOLERANCE OF ISLAM AND TOLERANCE OF HINDUISM.


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#10 Musharraf: Excerpts from an Interview in NYT on September 30, 2004
#180, Boondongs: You have to realize that a nation`s life is a function of all its component populations. It is true that there are some communalistic Hindus and I would be the first to condemn them. However, a large section of Indian Muslims have been playing on Indian (Hindu) tolerance for a long time. India has been so accomodating to them that they stop traffic on roads, at places, so that they can perform prayers in Masjids that are often breeding grounds for communal violence. Part of this is due to the fundamentally intolerant and violent nature of Islam. Hazarat and his cohorts killed hundreds in 37 battles that are recorded in Islamic History. At numerous places, Koran specifies only one solution to non-Islamics and that is death. Osama bin Ladin is respected in Muslim world like a reincarnation of Hazarat Mohammad.

Look at the interactions of concerned1 and hindvi and you will see the insidious nature anti-Indian, Pakistani Indian Muslims.

They never look at anything good in India but are always vocal in supporting Pakistan - see#172 which was in response to hindvis comments that I would like you to read.

NOW DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME. I DO BELIEVE THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALIKE. (Furthermore, read my profile.) A CLEAR EXAMPLE IS TAHMED32. But it is the petulance of hindvi-type that has aggravated the communal problem in India.


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#14 Musharraf: Excerpts from an Interview in NYT on September 29, 2004
#169, concerned1: Totally agree with you except the comprehension part.

The more you give the more they demand!!! Being President of India is not enough!!! They require as proof of secularism, the Delhi Sultanate!!!!!

They never acknowledge the qualitatively better treatment they get compared to what they give in Pakistan to Hindus.

Where was their loyalty?!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#13 Musharraf: Excerpts from an Interview in NYT on September 29, 2004
#173, hidvi:

``Inquirer no doubt pakistan contributes to the problem``

But do they condemn the Pakistani atrocities????

Instead when concerned1 (#169) points to them the day in and day out equalities, they ignore him!

Not worthwhile seeing the truth!

Yes, these ``they`` are Indian Muslims

Inquirer - M.Sc (Physics), Ph.D. (Nucl.Engg) unfortunately these impressive academic credentials come to nought when I see you gloating over the deaths in Pakistan. Pathetic.

#27, jang:You will see that too pretty soon!

Inqy #26

i dont see any post-godhra style riots. so..

Note the following to see the consequence of Jinnah-Liaqat wonder!! From Dawn

At least 39 killed, 100 wounded in bomb blasts in Multan: MULTAN, Oct 7: At least 39 people were killed and around 100 wounded when two bombs ripped through a gathering of Sunni Muslim radicals in Multan today, police and a doctor said. ``The death toll has risen to 39,`` chief medical officer of Nishtar hospital, doctor Imran Rafiq, told AFP. More than 100 people were hurt, district police chief Sikandar Hayat said. The explosions occurred at around 4:30 am. Police believe at least one blast was caused by a car bomb. (AFP) (Posted @ 09:15 PST)

This will aggravate till Pakistan/is expiate for antimnority bias in 1947.

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Prof Samuel Huntigton (of the clash fame) on assimilation



http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=2495

``The essentials of that founding culture remained the bedrock of U.S. identity, however, at least until the last decades of the 20th century. Would the United States be the country that it has been and that it largely remains today if it had been settled in the 17th and 18th centuries not by British Protestants but by French, Spanish, or Portuguese Catholics? The answer is clearly no. It would not be the United States; it would be Quebec, Mexico, or Brazil. ``

In my opinion, the word is neither `assimilation` nor is subjugation; it ought to be `integration` without loss of identity. take the case of Jews who integrate extremely well in the west, at the same time they keep their identity intact. We from the Indian subcontinent may not integrate well in the first wash but we may do so in the second wash or the third wash; eventually we wiil. Three lady newscasters of the indian origin on the CNN and `Kumars` comedians in the UK are glowing examples of it.

I believe our Hindustani (indo-Pak and Bangladesh) culture is rich in its own components (family coherence, adab, religions, languages, food, etc.), which we must preserve as part of our identity like our ancestors have done it so far in various parts of the world. it is shame that indian TV and film industry is now out there to overwesternize it and destroy it from its very roots. can any tell us what the Indian national language is or will be in the next ten years time?

#19 by hindvi

i am not familiar with the clubs there (or anywhere) anymore, but there was a club back then (late 80`s, early 90`s) called zanzibar or something (columbia-18-th st junction, on columbia)? in any case, all you have to do is somehow get in touch with one, and then its like hitting a motherload. Asking the barkeep after a nice tip can help as well (Gee i feel really old now, dishing out vicarious advice..i am dipressed). Avoid the ethiopean joints, except for food. Check out the Adams Morgan Festival, specially the Ethiopean Dancers ..noone asks them whats shakin.

> ``English is the language of this society``

Boy!!!! where I lived, they spoke Texan....
and its pretty big, y`all know that.

One confused ABCD. His only definition of assimilation seems to be forcible marrying into other races.

Can I have many American friends, play football, celebrate thanksgiving and still marry a desi chick? Am I not assimilated enough?