Proud to be a Pakistani?

re: education system in Pak: a Paki perspective
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=411211

(COMMENT: The mess we have made of education —IM Mohsin

Those who cannot afford to put their children even in government schools are obliged to send them to madrassas which offer free lodging and boarding besides the religious education. Up to the age of 18 these children are generally insulated from any broad-based knowledge. No wonder they develop a characteristic mindset

The General appears to be learning. About two years ago, he propounded that the study of subjects like philosophy and social sciences was a waste of time. Now he talks differently. He told the Khyber Medical College students in Peshawar recently that no nation can progress without the spread of education. Whoever brought about such awareness in him deserves the nation’ gratitude.

The General’s advisers, looking for quick fixes to impress the ‘strongman’, have, however, led him down the garden-path. He alleged in Peshawar that our system of education is bad because of the weakness at the primary level. The higher levels, he said, remain good. Such assessment stems from ignorance of the ground reality. The ignorance may be due to the following reasons.

First, an apartheid exists in the world of schooling. The rich (including the army officers) send their children to private/ cantonment schools that can maintain reasonable standards of education. The public schools meant for the poor and the middle classes have gone to dogs. Not being accountable, the General and his hangers-on have no idea of what happens to the majority of the population. Admission to even such sham schools is not easy as population pressure mounts. Those who cannot afford to put their children even in such schools are obliged to send them to madrassas which offer free lodging and boarding besides the religious education. Up to the age of 18 these children are generally insulated from any broad-based knowledge. No wonder, they develop a characteristic mindset.

Second, like those who seized power before him, the General talks of national progress. He fails to understand that nowadays nations cannot develop under the barrel of the gun. Cracks are already appearing in our polity due to the despondency caused by an authoritarian dispensation. The debit being raised against national integration cannot match the show put up by the king. No nation has progressed without living by a constitution that guarantees the Rule of Law and promotes freethinking. Those insisting on a different course have ended up as failed states.

Third, the General may be given the benefit of doubt. He may be truly unaware of what is happening in the world of education. Seizing power in a country like ours is far easier than implementing a reforms agenda in the education sector. It requires men of excellence in various disciplines who have the capacity to focus objectively on the relevant issues and the courage to say what is right, whatever the cost.

Fourth, we fumbled very early as a people and sacrificed merit at the altar of expediency and nepotism. In education sector, more than any other area, such unwise policies play havoc. Has any of our universities produced worthwhile research in any field since Ayub Khan’s martial law? Like all other institutions, education has suffered due to the suppression inherent in the rule by unconstitutional tactics leading to virtual suspension of civil liberties. The job of vice-chancellor, particularly, is coveted by retired generals. No wonder, the educational standards are plummeting. Such environment does not promote research or quality education. Generally, it produces yes-men who have no time for serious deliberation.

True to type, the General is being misled into believing that we will soon rival Sweden under his ‘stability’. Our academic degrees stand discredited abroad. World Bank reports show us at par with sub-Saharan Africa in terms of human resource development. A look at the leading international universities would indicate how badly placed we are. Very rarely does one across a Pakistani nowadays. Instead, you run into Indians, mainly Hindus, in large numbers.

Plagued by the lack of erudite teachers, credible libraries and educational environment conducive to progress, our students tend to be sidelined. The situation is aggravated by the utter disregard of merit that goes on with impunity. The only Pakistani students in top US schools today are the exceptionally gifted or those who gained a competitive edge through exposure to foreign teachers/institutions.

The recent experiments in developing a regime of liberal educational institutions in the private sector is proving a costly sham. Public funds are in the process being wasted on publicity for the government. It is not uncommon, as a result, to find people having MA, MBA and LLB degrees who are unable to converse in English or write a few lines. This is because the national approach to learning is perfunctory. Our prospects remain bleak because education can’t flourish in a no-trust society. Eaten up by the canker of corruption, our national ethos reflects little of Islamic attributes just as our frequent submission to the authoritarian regimes makes the state a parody of a republic.

Education is not just an administrative problem that can be set right by an executive order from the ‘supremo’. No army in the world has any locus standi in this field. It involves intellectual exercise, generally alien to the army culture. It flourishes best in a free society that allows no discrimination and protects the rights of the individual.

Educational reform will remain a pipedream so long as we do not change our hypocritical ways. It is a great tragedy that Islam’s first injunction was iqra (Read) and we are one of the most illiterate people in the world. The vested interests ruling the nation today are ambivalent about the spread of education. An educated population, they seem convinced, would not submit to the barrel of the gun.

The writer is a former secretary of the Ministry of Interior)
Sridhar

In reply to #255 by GuruJee

``arjun_m, Netizen start your IIT-mantra now! : ``IIT is better than...``

You seem to be an incorrigible person. I have repeated told you about my stance on IIT`s which is nothing sort of what you are trying to paint. Once again go and read my posts and tell me where have I compared IIT to any other institutes, let alone to declare them superior to others. What I have been telling is some positives and negatives.
I was going through a magazine and got some more articles for you and your ilk
Here is the link
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20041227&fname=IIT+%28F%29&sid=1
This article is not intended to claim any superior status for IIT`s in india or abroad. It is not intended to claim that they are the ``best`` universities in the world. If you disagree with the article you are welcome to put forth your views.
And please read my posts before replying.

Jai Hind

read on to know why Musharaff is the most dangerous man for the Indo - PAk peace............

``Adding to the danger was evidence that Sharif neither knew everything his military high command was doing nor had complete control over it. When Clinton asked him if he understood how far along his military was in preparing nuclear-armed missiles for possible use in a war against India, Sharif acted as though he was genuinely surprised. He could believe that the Indians were taking such steps, he said, but he neither acknowledged nor seemed aware of anything like that on his own side.

Clinton decided to invoke the Cuban missile crisis, noting that it had been a formative experience for him (he was sixteen at the time). Now India and Pakistan were similarly on the edge of a precipice. If even one bomb were used…Sharif finished the sentence: “. . . it would be a catastrophe.”
[Clinton] returned to the offensive. He could see they were getting nowhere. Fearing that might be the result, he had a statement ready to release to the press in time for the evening news shows that would lay all the blame for the crisis on Pakistan.

Sharif went ashen.
Clinton bore down harder. Having listened to Sharif’s complaints against the United States, he had a list of his own, and it started with terrorism. Pakistan was the principal sponsor of the Taliban, which in turn allowed Osama bin Laden to run his worldwide network out of Afghanistan. Clinton had asked Sharif repeatedly to cooperate in bringing Osama to justice. Sharif had promised to do so but failed to deliver. The statement the United States would make to the press would mention Pakistan’s role in supporting terrorism in Afghanistan—and, through its backing of Kashmiri militants, in India as well. Was that what Sharif wanted? ``

From Matloff:

[A] couple of months ago I made some very critical comments here about a 60 Minutes puff piece on the Indian Institutes of Technology (IIT). To hear 60 Minutes tell it, all IIT grads are geniuses, and Silicon Valley would be helpless without them. My point was that yes, a few IIT grads are indeed extraordinarily talented, but most are merely good, on a par with many good American students, but not the u``ber intellects claimed by 60 Minutes.

AsiaWeek magazine rated IIT only third-rank just in Asia, let alone the rest of the world. I don`t think their survey was very good, but the point is that the curriculum in the IITs is often pedestrian and out of date, and neither the curriculum nor the faculty can match any of the top universities in the U.S. The IIT faculty haven`t produced the seminal research papers, the breakthrough patents, the authoritative textbooks which the faculty of any world-class university should have.

I said that I can sympathize with the Indo-American immigrants who are proud that India has made a lot of economic progress. Good for them. But I resent hype, especially hype deliberately set up by expensive PR firms. It turned out that the 60 Minutes piece came out at a time during which there was a big PR push to promote what the Indians called ``Brand IIT.``

I also resent seeing 60 Minutes, a show I generally find to be informative, to be presenting such a fawning, unbalanced advertisement under the guise of ``news.`` (60 Minutes says that they did the show not at the behest of the PR firm, but rather ``at the suggestion of an Indian doctor.``)

Now enclosed below is an article from an Indian magazine, sent to me by a reader, which shows the 60 Minutes fiasco to be even worse than it had first appeared. Here is what is going on:

The 60 Minutes episode had included quite a bit of interview with Narayan Murthy, founder of Infosys, singing the praises of IIT as being not only the best in the world, but even ``out of this world.`` He cited the example of his own son, who was not good enough to get into IIT but was easily accepted into Cornell. Leslie Stahl, the interviewer, responded in a gee-whiz tone, ``Oh my gosh...Cornell was his SAFETY SCHOOL?!``

I responded by saying that (a) Murthy Jr. is getting a better education at Cornell than he would at IIT, and (b) it probably didn`t hurt his chances of admission at Cornell to have a rich and famous father, a potential huge donor.

Well, it turns out that Murthy Sr. is more than just rich and famous; he`s on the Cornell University Council :-)

GuruJee says: This was author`s response to the article:http://www.siliconindia.com/magazine/fullstory.asp?aid=AYS199505448

arjun_m, Netizen start your IIT-mantra now! : ``IIT is better than...``

Islamists and Hindutva Fascists: Two Sides of the Same Coin

This interview was conducted by Yoginder Singh Sikand with X, a social activist from Jammu and Kashmir who requested anonymity. Here, he talks about his views on a possible resolution of the Kashmir conflict.

MWU!: The ongoing violence in Jammu and Kashmir has severely impacted on inter-community relations in the state. What can be done to promote some sort of dialogue between the communities?

X: I agree with you when you say that inter-community relations here are not the same as they were two decades ago. At the same time I disagree with the argument that some people put forward that Hindus and Muslims simply cannot peacefully coexist. But I would admit that in Jammu and Kashmir there are people with extreme views in each community, who use religion to preach intolerance and hatred. This has happened all over South Asia, and not just in our state alone. Unfortunately, I do not think there are any organized efforts underway on the part of civil society organizations here to promote better inter-community relations.


MWU!: How do common Hindus and Muslims see each other? What has been the impact of rightwing Hindu and Islamist groups on such perceptions?

X: As I said, there has been a marked deterioration in relations between the different communities. Many Hindus and Muslims have come to see themselves, unfortunately, as adversaries. The RSS [a Hindu nationalist movement] now has a strong base among the Hindus, and Islamists have considerable support among some Muslims. But still, at the common level there is still a fair degree of tolerance and acceptance. For instance, there is a fairly sizeable Muslim community in Jammu town, which is Hindu dominated. The Muslims there generally feel safe, although there is always this fear that the massacre of Muslims in Jammu in 1947 could be repeated again. In Kashmir there are still some Pandit families left. Many Muslims feel that the Pandits who left the Valley should return, although some Kashmiri Muslim elites fear that if this happens the Pandits would again take up all the senior government posts that they occupied earlier, so that is another problem. I don’t agree with the theory that the militants forced the Pandits to flee. I think that while the Pandits must have feared the militants, the then governor, Jagmohan, actually enticed them to leave.

MWU!: How do you look at Islamist groups like the Lashkar-i Tayyeba and the Jama‘at-i Islami? Do you think they reflect the views of most Kashmiri Muslims?

X: These are armed groups and command most of whatever strength they do by the force of their weapons. They certainly do not represent the views and beliefs of most Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir, who do not agree with their understanding of Islam. The Lashkar and many people in the Jama‘at seem to think that you can be a proper Muslim only if you live in what they call an Islamic state, but this is not true. This argument is wrong, but it is a persuasive one for many. Before 1947 the Muslim League claimed that Islam needed a territory of its own to prosper. What followed was the ‘Islamic Republic’ of Pakistan, which is neither ‘Islamic’ nor a Republic! Don’t misunderstand me. I am a believing Muslim myself but I cannot agree with this notion that the mere fact that one shares the same religion with others means that one belongs to the same nationality and must live in the same state, which is what the Islamists argue. The hollowness of this claim was exposed no sooner had Pakistan come into being, with mounting ethnic, linguistic and sectarian tensions between the different Muslim groups living in that country. These factors played a more important role in Pakistani politics than Islam. Even today, because of the injustice that they feel subjected to, many Baluchis and Sindhis in Pakistan are demanding the right to self-determination. I fear that if Kashmir joins Pakistan, in a few decades the Kashmiris will also start demanding freedom from Pakistan and Punjabi domination.

MWU!: How do you feel that the problem of Kashmir can be eventually resolved?

X: Violence is no solution at all, and I think most Kashmiris now feel this way. Any solution to the issue, to be acceptable, must ensure that justice is done to all the ethnic, linguistic and religious groups living in the state. Otherwise, if the voices of some groups are suppressed there is bound to be constant instability. I think that any future political set-up for Jammu and Kashmir must necessarily be secular and democratic. This is not simply because of the large and significant non-Muslim minority in the state, but also because the single largest group, the Kashmiri Muslims, do not, as a whole, want to live under a so-called Islamist regime. And then, you must realize that the Muslims of the state are not a homogenous community. In addition to the Kashmiri Muslims, you have Dogra Muslims, Gujjars, Bakkarwals, Kargilis, Punjabi Muslims and so on, and they have their own diverse political views. I personally think that the majority of the Muslims of the state would not like to live in Pakistan, given its history of military rule, Punjabi domination, sectarian rivalries and backward economy. On the other hand, India is the cause of some of its own problems. It never allowed true democracy to function in Kashmir and consistently rigged the elections in the state. In any case, it is pointless discussing what has happened. I think no solution to the problem can afford to leave out the voices and aspirations of the people of Jammu and Kashmir. It is not simply a problem concerning India and Pakistan alone, and so the voices of the people of the state must also be taken into account. And by this I mean not simply the Kashmiri Muslims, but all ethnic, linguistic, sectarian and religious groups, Muslims and others, who live in both parts of the divided state of Jammu and Kashmir. The people of both parts should be allowed to interact and dialogue among themselves.

MWU!: What the advocates of Kashmir’s independence or accession to Pakistan generally overlook is the impact this might have on Hindu-Muslim relations in the rest of India. What do you have to say about this?

X: Yes, you are very right. There may be 10 million Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir, but Muslims in the rest of India number, say, 14 times that. It is obvious that if Kashmir becomes independent or joins Pakistan, Hindu fascist groups in India would be even further strengthened. It would further reinforce their argument that Muslims are communal, that they cannot be loyal to a non-Muslim state and so on. It might lead to a wave of attacks on Muslims in the rest of India and will perhaps even permanently ensure Hindutva hegemony in India. However, I do not think that the Islamists in Kashmir and Pakistan, who claim to be fighting to defend the rights of Muslims all over the world, are really bothered about what happens to the Indian Muslims if they succeed in their designs in Kashmir. It is the same as the position of the Muslim League when India was partitioned and Pakistan was created. The leaders of the Muslim League were not at all concerned about the fact that the Muslims in what became the Republic of India had to suffer, and continue to suffer even today, because of the Partition demand. So, I think that any solution to the Kashmir issue that ignores its possible consequences for the Indian Muslims, who account for 14 times the Kashmiri Muslim population, is unacceptable, even from the Islamic point of view, which the so-called Islamists conveniently forget.

MWU!: So what you are saying is that the radical Islamists and the Hindutva rightwing feed on each other, and, in a sense, need each other?

X: Yes, exactly. One always needs an opponent to justify one’s own aggressive intentions. So, that is why I say that Islamists and Hindutva fascists cannot survive without each other despite claiming to be the most inveterate foes. Islamist radicalism in Kashmir is, in a sense, a response to Hindutva aggression, and Hindutva gets further reinforced by Islamist radicalism. It is a vicious circle. The fear of Hindu hegemony also created Pakistan, although it is a different matter that this was no solution at all. It only further exacerbated the communal problem. Likewise, I think that if Kashmir becomes independent or joins Pakistan and what they see as their rival—India or the Hindus—are no longer on the scene, rival armed militant groups might start fighting each other, and we could witness a civil war as in Afghanistan.

MWU!: Islamists claim that they will establish what they call a ‘genuine’ Islamic state in Kashmir, which will ensure social justice and equity for all. How do you see this claim?

X: I think this is all empty propaganda. Can you tell me the name of even one Muslim country where such a state exists? These people have been fed on the writings of people like Maududi and Sayyid Qutb, who only created fanciful theories of their own. They do not have any clear economic program. They deliberately do not talk about the details of the polity that they want to establish, because they have no idea how to run a modern state. This is the same in the Hindu case as well. Hindutva ideologues say they want to establish Ram Rajya, but we know the sort of Rajya they want to establish means death and oppression. There is nothing as a blue-print provided in Islam, or in any other religion for that matter, for running a modern state. We need to think pragmatically, not in narrow ideological terms.

Yoginder Singh Sikand is a Reader in the Department of Islamic Studies at Hamdard University, New Delhi and editor of Qalandar, an online magazine devoted to a discussion of issues related to Islam and Inter-Faith Relations in South Asia. He received a Ph.D. in history from the University of London and has published numerous books and authored over 250 articles on Islamic studies-related topics.

HP #251

For reasons unrelated to our discussion I have been checking the CS faculty of mid-rung to top tier universities - UCSD, UCR, UCSB, UCLA, UCI, Penn State, Arizona, Utah, Washington, Oregon State, Kansas, UT - Austin, Georgia Tech. Top of my head I would say that the discrepancy between Indian and Pakistani professors is greater than 50 to 1.

HP #251
Disbelief shown by you and other Pakistani interactors really accentuates the frustrations faced by Sadozai. If appears that he was the only one who knew gap between standard of education offered between Pakistan and elsewhere.
You atleast was gracious enough to admit it. Almost all other interactors from Pakistan, knowingly or unknowingly, found it hard to believe that education system can be any better in any south asian country.
This appears to be one area where normal relationship could have helped Pakistan with a jumpstart. At this time, non-muslim south asian educators wont go to Pakistan because it not seen as secure friendly to no-muslims. Muslim educators, (of which there are plenty in India) would not go to Pakistan because they will be seen by Indian intelligence agencies as sympathetic to Pakistan. I notice that IBA is trying to get ``foreign professors``. You may find many Indian educators who will go for the sake of adventure, thrill or just to earn money - provided Pakistan`s atmosphere is condusive to non-muslim foreigners.

anilkv, friend, bbabu,

Thank you for the numbers and information. With this information at hand, I may have to rethink about the standard of education in India and Pakistan being equal in majority of the educational institutions. I believe that a strong faculty is the basis of better education at any level.
I hope some day Pakistani educational institutions would learn that. I believe some are doing it but most are still behind.
Thanks again my friends.

OK Tier-1 Univs, all faculty are from reputed foreign (american or british usually) or IIT, IISc PHDs, with solid post-doc experience which is almost always in an american or european institution.
Tier 2 and Tier 3 Universities, both government and private, it has to have PHDs with post-doc experience as faculty. Most of these PhDs are educated in india at Tier-1 and Tier-2 universities, and some come from decent but not great american unviersities. Almost all Tier-2 and Tier-3 universities and National Labs demand post-doctoral experience, which for most indian faculty is acquired in an indian federal research labs or defense labs. But the more promising go for post-docs to other countries.

This scenario is already so competetive that there is no dearth of good candidates for univ and national labs through out the country, IT or no IT.

Only some god forsaken univ in some rural corner may have insufficiently qualified (i.e. Masters only) teachers.

But there are a huge number of undergraduate collges (not univ) that teach BA/Bcom/BSc level generic education where the instructors are Masters level.

The number of Science and Technology CSIR exam qualified candidates last year alone was ~5500 candidates
http://www.csir.res.in/Profile.htm
To do a S&T PhD you should be GATE or CSIR exam qualified. Some of the GATE and CSIR exam qualified usually take up research jobs in Univ and National Labs, but almost all of them eventually do their PhDs because your work related research can be submitted as part of your thesis, and this results in a significant slary raise.

OK Tier-1 Univs, all faculty are from reputed foreign (american or british usually) or IIT, IISc PHDs, with solid post-doc experience which is almost always in an american or european institution.
Tier 2 and Tier 3 Universities, both government and private, it has to have PHDs with post-doc experience as faculty. Most of these PhDs are educated in india at Tier-1 and Tier-2 universities, and some come from decent but not great american unviersities. Almost all Tier-2 and Tier-3 universities and National Labs demand post-doctoral experience, which for most indian faculty is acquired in an indian federal research labs or defense labs. But the more promising go for post-docs to other countries.

This scenario is already so competetive that there is no dearth of good candidates for univ and national labs through out the country, IT or no IT.

Only some god forsaken univ in some rural corner may have insufficiently qualified (i.e. Masters only) teachers.

But there are a huge number of undergraduate collges (not univ) that teach BA/Bcom/BSc level generic education where the instructors are Masters level.

The number of Science and Technology CSIR exam qualified candidates last year alone was ~5500 candidates
http://www.csir.res.in/Profile.htm
To do a S&T PhD you should be GATE or CSIR exam qualified. Some of the GATE and CSIR exam qualified usually take up research jobs in Univ and National Labs, but almost all of them eventually do their PhDs because your work related research can be submitted as part of your thesis, and this results in a significant slary raise.

re: #228 by taqat-e-parvaaz
This article is for the viewing pleasures of taqat-e-whatever, HP, and Romair, for u too man!!
http://www.sulekha.com/news/cnews.aspx?type=&cat=latest&navdir=next&navno=410077



(India rising and diplomats crossing

What stood out in Delhi was the complete absence of loud verbal fights and abuse. Is this because the presence of women gentrifies men who can otherwise be so boorish?



Kamran Shafi

The writer is a retired army officer and a freelance columnist

kshafi1@yahoo.co.uk

My second trip to India in three years ended last Sunday when I returned through the Wagah border in the company of some friends. We had spent ten pleasant most days in Delhi. Traveling on the comfortable Shatabdi Express train we also took a day trip to Jaipur, where we visited the famous Amer (popularly called Amber) Fort and lunched at the quite stunning Rambagh Palace Hotel.

But first, general impressions, and Delhi, and how it has become so completely different from the Pakistan of today. The moment you cross the border you know that you are in a foreign country despite the fact that the same half-clad farmer carrying the same kahi (hoe) can be seen watering his wheat crop exactly like his counterpart in Pakistani Punjab. The same plastic bags that fly about and blight our villages and towns fly about and blight Indian villages and towns too. The same putrid and smelly water ponds with buffaloes wallowing in them are seen in Chichokimallian, Pakistan as they are in Attari, India.

So what is the glaring difference that jumps right at you and tells you as nothing else could, that you are in a vastly different country? The moment you enter a town, you see women and girls moving about as freely as men. Young women walk in the bazaars with confidence; ride bicycles and motor scooters; everyone goes about their business without even noticing that there are women around too! You get the impression, most of all, that despite so many similarities, including the same mad traffic, you are in a more civilised country where women do not scurry about like frightened rabbits, eyes cast down for fear of being pilloried as they are in this The Land of the Pure. And this, one might add, is an aspect of life particularly hurtful to people of my generation who grew into college life in the 60`s, when girls used to cycle to college in Lahore and Karachi, Rawalpindi and even Peshawar, without being looked at lasciviously, leave alone molested by words, taunts and vulgar innuendo.

Back in Delhi, our arrival at the railway station had the same feel as at any large Pakistani train station, only the sheer numbers were greater: crowds milling about, jostling, forcing their way by elbowing others aside, just like in Pakistan. What stood out in Delhi was the complete absence of loud verbal fights and abuse. Is this because the presence of women gentrifies men who can otherwise be so boorish? In contrast, one heard the most vulgar abuse being bandied about by two loutish taxi drivers at the Daewoo Bus Station in Lahore, as one arrived there from Wagah for onward travel to Rawalpindi.

You should see today`s Delhi! It is a thriving city, hotels full to brimming with foreigners -- tourists, investors, importers, journalists; its shops have undergone a sea change in the three years that I was there last, now looking (and feeling) like shops in any of the great capitals of the world. Shopkeepers and sales people are exceedingly polite, greeting you as you enter, thanking you even if you leave without making a purchase. The quality of goods is excellent, and the prices cheaper than back home, even after discounting the fact that the Indian rupee is now almost 25 per cent stronger than ours.

Talking of foreign businessmen in India, India`s foreign exchange reserves shot by three billion US dollars last month - ALL of it in Foreign Direct Investment - to 135 Billion US Dollars. Indeed, there were at least six high profile Italian textiles buyers in our train carriage, traveling to Amritsar for negotiations with Indian counterparts. In contrast, one wonders about the last time that Faisalabad, the center of Pakistani textiles, last saw a foreigner...

You should go see Delhi`s pulsating nightlife. Go to one of the many smart bars and restaurants that have recently opened, say, Olive, in an area called `Qutb`. That`s right, the name derives from the nearby Qutb Minar. The ambience is something to behold, its clientele made up of 65 per cent locals and 45 per cent foreigners, all having the time of their lives wining and dining on the finest the world has to offer.

While on the subject of recreation, Jaipur alone has five five-star hotels, all solidly booked months in advance. As noted in this same space some time back, `five-star` hotels in this country make India`s hotels of equal ranking appear at least seven-star. And they are expensive, VERY expensive. Still, the Rambagh has no rooms on offer until December 2005! We saw one bus-load of well heeled tourists leave and another arrive in the one hour that we were there.

India may not be `shining` as the BJP found to its cost, but it is certainly rising with every passing day. And where are we? Wallowing in self-pity; angry with the world; twisted in mind and spirit, looking for scapegoats for our own national failings. We`ve got to pull our fingers out if we are to get anywhere at all, and fast. We`ve missed the past few boats, could we please catch the next one that might happen along?

Back in Islamabad the Beautiful, an incident that may well not have happened in India -- on my way to my bank in the diplomatic enclave, I got caught at the check post at the enclave`s fenced and gated entrance. There were three vehicles ahead of me, at least ten behind, all waiting for the stream of mainly diplomatic cars from the opposite side to get by. A sleek Daimler Sovereign flying the Union Jack and carrying His Excellency the High Commissioner for Britain jumped the queue, trying to nose in front in typical taxi-driver style.

The stream of traffic from the other side was so solid that he could not get through and came to a halt directly to my right, blocking the road further. I saw red and began to blow my horn in the internationally recognised sign of annoyance. There was no reaction from the Daimler, save a casual glance from the chap sitting in the front with the driver. The Daimler then began to inch forward until His Excellency himself came alongside me. I continued to blow the horn, and said loudly ``Get back in line``. His Excellency studiously looked out the right rear window of his car, ignoring me, somebody whose space his car had violated. He quite rudely did not apologise as he jolly well should have done, but apparently it would have been below his station to apologise to a Pakistani nobody in an eighteen-year old little rattle-trap.

But then, why should he even think of doing the right thing by a common citizen, when he knows us for the grovellers we are? As a young diplomat posted here many years ago he knows how cheaply we sell ourselves - a drink now and then please, Sirji! More strength to you, Your Majesty; go break some more rules while you are here. Walk all over us for all you are worth, for there are few (who are more shameless than us.)
Sridhar

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

HP #236
Man! you are somehow very intimidated by this $100K figure. I am also talking about $100K figure and I am again repeating that atleast 100+ in my immediate circle must be earning more than that in IT industry - that is in my city which is not a first tier IT city.

Any graduate or undergrauate college recognized by university grants commission is required to have no less than M.Phil or PhD as qualification of a teacher. In exceptional circumstances, post graduates with very good experience can be taken. Of course, exceptions are granted quite commonly for colleges in rural areas. However, you wont find it happening frequently in Tier 1, or tier 2 institutes.

HP #236

`` My posts were not about IT industry at all. It was just a reference point to education level. The point I was making and I will repeat again was that it is true that some top 5% in India go to top schools and get quality education but what about the 95% that can not make it to that level and stay with the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th tier education institutions. My thinking was that looking at the majority of the population, the education standards in both countries are about the same.
I was hoping that Indians would comment on how general school college and universities operate where majority of students get education rather than concentrating on the top five percent.``

I can speak for the Southern States. Anna University, Osmania, JNTU, REC - Tiruchy are pretty good colleges. My guess is that the elite Pakistani institutions would be at the same level as these colleges. They do not have the reputation of the IITs. Most of these insitutions are run by state governments. They are subject to caste based quota schemes for admission of students. 30-40% of the students are there because of their caste rather than the academic competence. That dilutes the academic caliber of the students. Otherwise these colleges have a good established record. There are plenty of successful alumni in USA.

taqat-e-parvaaz #234

`` sounds like another bhindian response to musharraf grabbing india by the balls! you`ve basically acknowledged that india is getting it up the rear diplomatically by pakistan. if you think manmohan singh and your thick politicians can outgun and out-strategize musharraf, you need to stop yourself from having wet dreams. mahathir muhammad too was a dictator, albeit one liked by his fellow countrymen. malaysia`s GDP is equal to india`s and its population is probably 1/10!! hail to the sacred cow!!``

What has Mushrarraf gotten ? He has avoided getting kicked in his head like Saddam. Pakistan is in the news for all the wrong reasons - Taliban, Al Qaida, nuclear proliferation, terrorism. Any economic benefits you get is outweighed by loss of credibility.

Imagine spending 5 years denying any material support to Taliban, kashmiri rebels and then being forced to issue a statement saying that you are cutting off material support. Imagine telling the world for a decade that you will never indulge in nuclear proliferation. Then being forced to admit. Even those admissions are half-truths. Do you really think AQ Khan was running his nuclear racket without knowledge of Pakistani Army. If it was really the case Pakistani Army must be the most incompetent organization in the world.

On mahathir mohammed Malaysia is where it is because of its enterprising 35% Chinese minority. Take them out. They will be a smaller version of Indonesia. The fellow is overrated. We will see how well Malaysia handles India and China economic onslaught.

HP

noone is comparing general indian education system vis-a-vis paki. the point is iits/iim brands have been created and have been acknowledged all over the world, and NUST/GIKI/UET are not brands, hoewver good the flush toilet in these schools may be.

this fact is highly evident, and you are not happy with it, and digressing, and calling arjun and aleph names out of frustration. and yes US$100,000 in IT with some experience is ordinary (good but no big deal).

so please get on with it and create some cool paki brands, no one is stopping you. after all, you know in your heart, that you are much better, that you can do things with fewer resources and in faster time.

if needed, be inspired by the chinese, thats ok too! but in the interim, there are some folks who are inspired by the indian thingy, and want to do well, whats wrong here?