Sometimes…

thats really wonderfull....good try asif ...

I have been a bit late in reading Sahir`s beautiful urdu nazam which has been cconverted into a piece of english verse by the translator.Meanwhile the discussion has gone quite tangential leaving behind the basic question which this ``article`` should have raised and our worthy readers should have reflected on that i.e. whether poetry can be translated? This translation is like trying to convert a ``tamba`` into a pant.

Allow me to regale you with one of the greatest Lyricists. Noor Lakhnavi ``wrote``*all the ghazals & geets for ParchhaeeN. C Ramchandraa`s superb composition & Talat & Lata`s immortal `violin` voices.

*``wrote``: Because he could neither read nor write AT ALL. Total angoothhaa chhaap. If colonised Parrhay-likhhays from colleges & universities let the mother-tongue-ones become glamorous & fashionable, both India and Pakistan can overtake Harvard types within FIVE years ( at the most) EVEN in hard Sciences.

O goray kay ghulaam!
Angraizee zaroor pUrrh, german aur cheeny bhee pUrrh, arabee bhee pUrrh--subb pUrrh, pUr Angraiz bUn kay Noor Laknavis ko impress krnay kee koshish naa kar.

90% energy, time, and money of Pakis is dissipated in trying to copy the goraa saab`s mannerisms and attire! They deserve Oscars, not Nobels!

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ENJOY!
Muhabbat hee na jo

Katate hain
chanda kee chhAon

And this one of FAIZ by Noor JehaaN sung in the 40`s is considered a better composition ( Feroze Nizami ) than Mujhh sey pehli cee.

This is the one from when Faiz sahib was in his ``Akhtar Shiraani`` period which he later disavowed and ridiculed because then he had started toeing the ``party-line``.

Faiz could have been another Ghalib, if he was not ``herded``

Some discount here must be given her for recording technology of the period. Mujhhsey pehli was recorded in the early 60`s, this one in 1941.


aaj kee raat

echoboom:42 Yes, I get your point.Apart from ahle siyasat on both sides, I know that common people are the same, with the same stories and dreams and struggles. And I know what you mean when you talk about stuka`s narrative. There is yearning on this side of the border too. The feeling that we are more same then different. And by we, i mean Indians and Pakistanis. I dont even want to talk about Hindus and Muslims here.
And yes, I did get Ibne-Gautam.By the way, the meaning of ``rahul`` in hindi is ``obstacle``. I wonder whether this meaning has evolved because rahul was an obstacle for Gautam to leave his home in search of truth, though the word must have had some meaning before that too.

rahul_capri:41

Well I`m aware of Hans Raj Bahl also, but you got my point now. My ``the democracy`` sarcasm was directed at the relentless barrage against Muslims & Pakistan here. It was my little effort to say ``lay off guys``.

An exchange like Stuka`s narrative about Jaam Nagar and others would be more entertaining and informative then the PHd Soc/pol-sci type of ``analysis``. It is this ``intellectualitis`` which is gnawing away at the roots and sapping away the life-blood of the ``common-folk`s`` (like us) value system.

What a wonderful opportunity here to talk about ``our ownselves`` no matter how mundane and trivial that be, rather than finding out from tomes which kept some employed to teach us what to think..the high priests, priestesses of the academia.

``Bay-ghar huay kuchh aisay, huay khuuD sey bhee ghaafil
hUr ghair say ruuk ruuk kay pUtaa poochhaa hai ghar kaa.``
adaab.

P.S: What do you say of Ibn-e-Gautam. Did you ``get`` it? (rahul:#22)

echoboom #40 Yes, I am not aware of any about that topic.But that, has nothing to do with democracy, dont you think? Press freedoms were most in danger in the times of emergency and the government is more likely to be critical of revoultionary political poetry written criticising itself, than the like of one by Faiz you posted. And Dushyant kumar wrote a lot of stuff flaming the politicals powers that be of that time.
Nadia_Zehra #39 yes, Faiz is a very important poet for the reasons you mention.Also, though he was a scholar in Arabic and Persin, he recognized the need to use simple words to reach to a lot of people.
ShoreSahib #38 Yes, Most of the difference between Urdu and Hindi is imagined. The language we speak has as many ``urdu`` as ``hindi`` words. And that can be called hindustani, as you say.

Shoresahib:
I missed Rah. Thanks for pointing it out.
All I meant was the ``diction``. A rural mother`s language. Not easy.

Rahul_capri

What I wanted to highlight was any work which mourns for the ``enemy``, especially when theres a war. I did not mean THAT emergeny.

Nadia_Zehra:
That was a quick tour. Thanks.

errata:35
..which is so powerful and risky during an ``emergency``.

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which is even 1% as powerful and risk-laden, whether during an ``emergency`` or even at other times, anytime.

echoboom #35
Dushyant kumar was one of the poets who wrote ghazals in Hindi + Urdu .Most of his work came out in the emergency period. Read some here According to Kamleshwar, he was one of the factors responsible for the revocation of Emergency.
There are other poets as well.

Re: 35 Echoboom
``Not a single Urdu( farsi/arabic origin) word here!``
There are two farsi words in ``utho ubb maati sey Utho.``
DoShala-Cloak,mantel or Shawl
Raah--way
Also, I must point out this whole work is in Hindustani : Mother Language of both Modern Pakistani Urdu and Bharati Hindi. Isnt Urdu a conglomerate of Hindustani, Turkish, Arabic, and Farsi?
So I would consider this work old Urdu or Hindustani, Its similar to the Urdu prose of Deputy Nazir Ahmed`s Tobaat-ul-Nasooh, or like the speech of my Dadi Amma Begum Khadija Kauthar ( May she live long).
kya khyaal hai Echoboom Sahib.

Some thoughts for Faiz triggered by discussion on-board
Well talking about Faiz’s poetry I must add that his famous poem sung by Madam Noor Jehan…
”Mujh Say pehli si Muhabbat meray mehboob na Mang”
is a slow convertion from Love for a woman to Love to a country. This kind of love poetry was not common before in Urdu poetry.Where Ghazals and poms were distinctly for a person , if an object and clearly if for a country in the form of a Tarana.
As Faiz said:

“Chamkay jo Salasil to Dil nay yeh Jana hai Subh teray rukh pay bikhar gayi ho gi.”
“Teray Honto kay Phoolo ki Chahat mai.n hum, Dar ki Khush Tehni peh Maray gaye”

So country is depicted in the form of a blooming lovely woman and the political condition at that time was rupturing its beauty. This theme got highly supported among literary circles where groups of liberals and democrats fancied themselves with these provocations. However well I feel is that we lacked the true essence of Patriotism which is above beloved and human sentiments and emotions. Faiz a free thinker put down it in the form:
“Aj Bazar mai.n PaBajola.n Chalo”
“Utho ab Matti say uttho, Jago meray Laal”
“Intesaab

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Aaj kay nam aj kay gham kay nam..”
“Africa”

The flavor of love was so immense thatr people also liked:
``Raqueeb say``

There was openmindedness to extent of Religion and its sophisticatedness.
And when he wrote Marsia, we wept as we read Meer Anis:
``Marsia-e-Shabbir``

And there were anti gods..athiest in him :
``Wo Butto.n nay dailay hai.n waswasay keh Dilo say Khof-e-Khuda Gaya....
Wo pari hai.n Roz Qayamatai.n keh Dilo say Roz-e-Jaza Gaya``

XeroxKhan:34
Give me a propper equivalent of ``Raqueeb`` and then we can all try :D

Meanwhile, please listen to this.

Uthho ubb maati sey uthho

This ``Eik sipahi ka marsiyaa`` was written by Faiz after the `71 war. To bring home the futility of war, Faiz has written this marsiyaa (elegy; dirge) for a hindu sipahi by the sipahis` mother.

Not a single Urdu( farsi/arabic origin) word here!

Given the ``undemocracy`` and all the things wrong with Pakistan esp. muslims, as hammered into them by the hindians, may I be enlightened a little about any utterence from ``the democracy`` side which is so powerful and risky during an ``emergency``.
Bring one instant, even one, from `47 on , or close the books forever!

Dost Mittar: I thank you for your efforts on that Point of View `71 board. It is not how you `analysed`(khirad)* is important, it is that the direction (nazar)* you took that matters.

Khirud* key paas Khabar key siwa kuch aur nahi
Tera Ilaj Nazar sey Siwa kuch aur nahi .

P.S: That other board is a riot. There, I might die laughing.

Faiz is ``the BEST` in depicting the -helplessness, but he is always triumphant over the situation; for example:

Tujhse chalti rahe ye raah yun.hi achcha hai
Tumne mud.kar bhi na dekha, to koi baat nahi.

and his la-jawab expression :

Jaise Kisi Bimaar Ko Be.wajah Karar Aa Jaa!

Can some one translate Faiz`s:

Aa Ke Wabista Hai....

that would be great

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Echoboom:31
Sir, it is Spirit_Ual
and not Spi_Ritual
I am sure you know this as well.