The Criminal as Victim

Re: # 415
it was gen O`dwayer(not Dyer)who was Governor of Punjab at that time and had approved Dyer`s plan.
And the great son of the soil,who did it was Udham Singh who did not identify as a sikh,but a true representative of the whole India.He had changed his name to ``Ram Muhammad Singh Azaad`` and most importantly,when he was asked to swear by his religeous book,he asked Waris Shah`s Heer to be brought in the court and he swore by it(and stated openly that his religeon is only Ishq)

Re: # 477
I know of your beliefs about conversion, that is why I was a bit surprised at that post. so the man wouldn`t have been denounced as an apostate? The woman must have faced opposition from fellow Muslims, yes, but surely you would listen to the last request of someone who loved you so much? Quite a love story, don`t know about whether it shows religious maturity, though!
My mother performed her father`s last rights, so did a cousin of mine. Apparently going to crematoriums is something that varies from one community to another, and people from UP/MP/Bihar and Bengalis usually don`t.

kardesh #476

`` I am willing to support such a boycott. But, believe me, the royal family could care less. I have no personal desire to go to that country because of its ancient laws and cruel punishments. Of course, I realize that all this has to do with intimidation and not religion. They use religion to inimidate everyone into ``behaving`` - everything is geared to keep the family in power. ``

On the face of it the Saudi royals might care less. If an average Saudi does not believe any of the political Islam propaganda the hold of the Saudi royals would weaken considerably.

hindu women are scared..even after so many years since mr ram mohan roy ;-)

FV:
``from what I know Hindu women too cannot visit the crematorium (although it may be permitted at the electric crematorium). ``

Used to be true among Punjabis, but not any more. Now, women do visit shamshaan bhoomis in Delhi. You would know better about Bombay though.

nb:

I do not believe in conversions done without any conviction at all (written about it on Chowk itself). Of course, he should not have had to convert at all. What I found poignant and brave was that this woman must have had to face opposition from her co-religionists and yet she went ahead. You ask if the situation was reversed and the man was a Muslim converted to Hinduism and his last wish was to be buried, would the wife be allowed to bury him? He could be buried because everyone wants a member of their religion back. But she would not be permitted to perform the rites herself; women are not permitted in that part of the cemetry where the grave is dug...from what I know Hindu women too cannot visit the crematorium (although it may be permitted at the electric crematorium).

Re: # 475
bbabu,
I am willing to support such a boycott. But, believe me, the royal family could care less. I have no personal desire to go to that country because of its ancient laws and cruel punishments. Of course, I realize that all this has to do with intimidation and not religion. They use religion to inimidate everyone into ``behaving`` - everything is geared to keep the family in power.

kardesh #465

`` bbabu,
Interesting proposition. A religious boycott of Saudi Arabia would probably work in the Saudi royal family`s favor. They are kind of stuck with the role of having to play host to the annual pilgrimage. They would rather prefer the pilgrims to go elsewhere so they can spend their ``wealth`` in Monte Carlo and Costa del Sol. When you have billions, the last thing you want is two million ``relatives`` visiting. ``

A boycott by Indian Muslims, some African Muslims and Shites would represent 20% of world`s Muslim population. All of the three above groups gain nothing from the Wahabi and pro-Taliban policies espoused by Muslim establishment. It would undermine the appearance of Muslim brotherhood. It would force some Saudi clerics and some idealists in the Muslim community to take a hard look at themselves.

#472 by nb on March 29, 2005 5:12am PT

Yes worli does ring a bell...a very resounding bell...

I can understand something like a division in the Indian equivalent of the NIH....but a whole frigging directorate and the bureaucracy that goes with it?

Re: # 470
But that is the way things have always been; I remember shortly after the Babri Masjid riots, Dileep Padgaonkar`s TOI had a spread on `secular` inter-religion marriages and all the couples were vehement in their critcisms of Hindutva and how it had affected ordinary lives. Which would have been all very well, were it not for the fact that in each case, the Hindu (or in Louise Fernandes`s case, Christian) wife had converted to Islam, they had had a nikaah, and all their children were being brought up as Muslim. These are all fair and valid decisions, but then why claim this is secularism? Could a newspaper get away with this now? I don`t think so.

Re: # 471
Do you actually think Ayurveda should be even more unregulated than it already is? Maharashtra has a directorate too, not sure exactly where, does Worli ring a bell?Don`t laugh at ayurveda; people were being prescribed karela for diabetes millenia ago, and my Handbook on complementary medicine now says to check if people are on Karela because then they`ll need lower doses on insulin and diabetic drugs!!

#467 by FarzanaVersey on March 28, 2005 10:37pm PT


Righteous Rubina, who is a lower division clerk at the state ayurveda directorate


Jeezus christ...they have an ayurveda directorate!!

remind me never to go to bhopal...the gas is still in the air and it`s affecting people`s brains....

Re: # 467

LOL.. take note folks..
look at this.. an example of religious freedom, where everyone gets converted to a Muslim..

``Bhopal, March 28: In a rare occurrence, an ordinary Muslim housewife set a singular example of community amity by performing on Sunday the funeral rites of her Hindu-born husband who had converted to Islam at the time of their betrothal..``

Re: # 364
That is not YLH, he would not do that. This is none other than Salim, but don`t hold it against him, he has BAD/MPD!!

Re: # 467
I think that`s a really sad story of a man who had to pretend to be someone he never was for the sake of his love; of course, no one stopped his wife from performing the rites,and neither should they. But why should he have had to convert at all? If this had been the other way round, Farzana, would the wife have been allowed to bury him in a Muslim cemetery? Just a thought.
I see your point about unplugged and front page being different, but if someone is abusive and racist on UP, it is hard to have any respect for him on the front page either. Human minds are not as compartmentalised as you think they should be, perhaps.