The Meera Trinity

Crappy article. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: # 88

ShoreMian or Kardesh- You have some sense of humor!!

Well done Ferzana Bibi! I think your article was well written and bought up a lot of issues. The very fact that this forum is so on-going with so many contributions is a testament to that. With regards to Pakistan`s film board or whoever decided these things about kisses and fondles, I don`t think that they have heard of Method acting in the Robert De Niro sense - the fact is that people in real life (in love and lust) do KISS. I don`t know if this is contrary to culture or Hindu or Islamic beliefs but, it is something that does happen so for all the fundos, GET OVER IT!

Also, as far as the attack on Hinduism goes, I do not see it. As a good Hindu girl, I firmly believe that religion is a personal thing and everyone is entitiled to their own take. As a Philosophy student, I have learned the importance of questioning ALL religions and not following them blindly.

The relationship between Gandhi and his Mira is something which has been explored and questioned and though India may not want to tarnish his reputation as a central figure in the freedom movement, they have to bear in mind he is a man with distinctly male feelings. Let`s face it, men do not know their arses from their elbows as far as women are concerned so it is quite possible that his Mira was led on by his 500 odd letters to her, I would be in her situation!

Re: # 85
Jang:

I am surprised that you are offended, but I do owe you an explanation (despite the fact that no Hindu on this board expressed any such anger...they did have other problems like any other interactor

See the interact no. 38 below

38 by drlokraj on March 30, 2005 7:45am PT
I agree with ballukhan and rsridhar.

There is hardly any similarity in the three apart from all being women and having common first name.Meera Bai has status of a deity for Hindus -comparing her with an actress who does eveything for commercial benefits,is nothing short of blesphemy.

Ferzana
I am registering my protest at use of meeabai in your article. I am not asking you to change your treatise (you to your dharma, me to mine). Its like this (my reasons).

1. Iconoclasts seem to have open season on Hindu Icons only, perhaps because of lack of protests. In absence of scholarly reacorded and researched history, over time, some of the repeated bakbak becomes facts and show up everywhere from Dainik Jagran to Jang to Missionary literature to NY Times. Look at the Sikhs. No one dare ``deconstruct`` Baba Nanak or any of the martyrdoms. Is it due to the Kirpan?

2. I dont defend Hindu religion but the protest is more of defense of subtle attack on Hindu community feelings.

3. I support deconstruction of icons for progressing a social casue. E.g. if inspired by meerabais bhajans a regressive trend towards denial of education, inheritance and justice for girls exists.

4. Stuka in unstoppable, and this board seems to lack appropriate discussion.

Jang:

I am surprised that you are offended, but I do owe you an explanation (despite the fact that no Hindu on this board expressed any such anger...they did have other problems like any other interactor).

You say I have cast aspersions on Sant Meerabai`s character. I assume you are basing this on the 3 questions I posed. Let me see...

[- By upholding the existence of only one man-god, was she hitting out at the male stranglehold or was she de-sexualising the male and therefore herself?]

What is new about the latter part of the query? She had de-sexualised herself, her celibacy is celebrated...

[- Was she just a smart cookie who used her high station in life to court controversies and then give them a slap because she could well afford to do so?]

You have read the article and you know the context. with quotes, that I have transposed it with. Before she became a sant, she was royalty and could command respect for things that a woman without such lineage might not have been able to.

[- Was she an adulteress?]

Would it have made a difference had I put the word in single quotes? The para that followed did explain the context.

Would it have helped if I had written something akin to an academic treatise, for there is indeed a body of work on the subject?

Examining various facets of icons is not such an unusual aspect of writing. The query often raised is, why do I not take on Muslim/Islamic icons? Would this make what I say about Hindu icons more acceptable? When I wrote about sexual symbolism (a very wide term) in religion, I made a reference to the Ka`aba. (`Making religion sexy` board)

It would be better to take a person`s opinion as an opinion; nowhere do I allude to this being the universal truth.

It would be easy to say that I am sorry about this, but I have seen thsi word being carelessly thrown around much too often; besides I was in my senses (to the degree I possess them) when I wrote this. All I can say is if `boxing me in` helps, go ahead.

And FYI, it isn`t about Hindus alone. I know at least one Indian Muslim who feels somewhat the way you do. She happens to be my mother.

- - -
#50 by rsridhar:

[I did not think u would know so much about Hinduism. What the heck? One lives and learns.]

Many IMs see Hindu mythology in a larger context as Indian culture as long as it is not forced upon them in religious terms. I do know a bit more about it than I even know about Islam, simply because it is accessible and as I said elsewhere it is sought to be `humanised`. (I have arguments for and against this aspect that I have voiced often.)

On another note, when the TV serials on the Ramayana and Mahabharata were being aired and they were available in Pakistan, I recall on one trip here my aunt telling us that her kids had wanted to touch her feet and kept asking for aashirwaad for the flimsiest reasons!

One learns and one lives...sometimes one is fortunate to learn to live...

Jang

To make the language clearer, it will have to be *raised* to your standards :)

It`s great that you communicated your feelings to the author. I suspected that there might be a whole group of people who deserved your attention.

Besides, `boxing people in` is not always unwise.

eternal time-wheel

can you say things in simpler language? most of your posts sound nice and all, but i fail to get them. i cant change, so can you dumb them for me?

look i dont want to box ferzana in some kind of secular-liberal thing, its unfair. i just want her to know that what she wrote was offensive, irresponsible and plain sucked. in addition, i have noteiced that while she is liberally attacks icons of other religions, she is NEVER iconoclastic (this is metaphorical, lack of real icons) about her own community religion (she professes communal bond and not religious). i wanted to let her know of what it think and what many others may think but perhpas not express.

re: jang #81

This is an emotional article, written in a fit of rage by an Indian liberal.

Understand the source of her rage. But don`t waste your own emotions on it.

If you do feel upset, I humbly suggest, all backward people like you and I and other similar underlings direct our thoughts toward the environment in India that puts the highly-evolved human species of Indian liberals on the same side as Jamat-e-Islami of Pakistan.

i somehow resent ferzana using a hindu bhakti icon and a respected potess close to sainthood for hindu indians in some publicity. she is casting aspersions on sant meerabis character (and offcourse meera actress too, but she is not as widely revered). thankfully this article is not well-read else many would feel offended like i do.

re: Ballukhan # 77

That`s Jamaat-e-Islami! We know the views of religious people with regard to gender.

How on earth did it become a cause celebre for liberals, particularly in India ?

The article wasn`t even written on April Fools day, or was it?!

Re: # 43
Sorry for ``smell something burning`` comment...,that was actually in lighter vein.
But I dont fully agree with the underlying message of exploitation which means these meeras dont have any free will of their own.True,they are being lured by the manifestations of the system but final actions are thier own.What will you say about countless ``artists``ready to outdo eachother in shedding their clothes in the videos of the remixed/recycled old hindi filmi songs.?
I dont see the system being run by only males,but yes in this world of consumerism,people are ready to sell anything valued in the market-be it body-image,sex or religeon.

About 15 years ago, a former Miss India was found to be a high class madam in UK. India survived the shame. I think Pakistan too will survive this kiss.

Regards

In case people could not read the original story, here is the link:-

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1039954,curpg-2.cms

`Meera should fight for Kashmir too`

Sayed Munawar Hasan, Secy of Jamaat-e-Islami, spearheading the movement against Meera in Karachi, on the `ideology` of Meera`s kiss.


Yeh mudda kiss ka nahin hai... Everything is a political issue. Why is India trying to confuse the Kashmir issue? Why should there be a cricket match in Ahmedabad? Why is Meera in Bollywood? Why is she not fighting like us for the Kashmiris` freedom and human rights? Doesn`t Meera know and understand the tehzeeb of her culture? India and Pakistan are two different countries, two cultures. We have different definitions of shame, respect; different boundaries for our women; different ideologies. According to us, Meera should not be in Bollywood. The kiss is not the issue here. Kashmir, cricket or a kiss... there is a political angle to everything.

My final report here, before night starts for me:

An hour or two ago, watched the Antakshari`s Holi episode, with Indian and Pakistani participants. It was great. Pakistanis taking part did not appear to have clearly discernible horns on their heads.

Ref vagabond78 #71

[#43 by FarzanaVersey

The difference lies in that Meera`s dope was Lord Krishna himself. Zeenat has more in common with Meera The Bimbette.
But really, would Krishna care about this detail? Chances are that `Bhor bhaye panghat pe` Zeenat is more likely to be teased by him. And if Meera and Zeenat are at the river, my guess is `Natkhat Shyam` would look to steal Zeenat`s clothes :) ]

Provided Zeenat wore any clothes to be stolen! I was under the impression that in the movies she covered just the barest essentials. For which she was referred to in a Tamil magazine as Zeenat Ammanam (Zeenat the Nude).