Across the Line of Control

#103 Arastooji..
You hait Right on the head of the nail!!


#102..Jangji..
Bhaisahab..jin ki seekh se itne log maare gaye, jinki kitaab mein kafiron ko maar ke unki auraton ko kaise ``commonly`` enjoy karein vagairah batein likhee gayee ho..(Yes ..the koran explicitly instructs how to enjoy kafir women by xxxxing them but ejaculating out side so others can enjoy them for a long long time with no intervening pregnancies and long 9 month waiting times!! It is called ``azl`` or somesuch thing)..
Aur aise pagal bhaisahab par aap ko naaz hain?

Wah bhai..chor uchhake..dakait kab se sharddha ke shrot banne lage ?
news to me!

No doubt we find more ``common`` sympathisers for terror and violence from inhi ``shraddha vale bahis``!!

Singapore mein jab underground railways ko bomb karne ka shadyantra khula to unka sargana kaun nikla hoga?
Ek ``seedha-saadha`` (aap ke jaisa) bespactecled ``family`` man ..who even headed a commitee or something. His neighbours were stunned ``oh such a sober guy`` was such a ``Quatil`` at heart.

Kya karein bhai..``shraddha ka mamla jo thehera``!!

I wonder how many million such black gaurds are being harboured in secular india.
Infiltrate / convert / subvert / loot / rule

Isnt that exactly what VIRUSES do?

Was that the reason SPAIN expelled these guys to the last man?
Must have been a greately healing excercise! If you look how spain prospered afterwards!!

It is europe`s turn next.

A real ``subtle subversion``...dont you say?

Sort of Meethi churi se halal.

Jayen

Ref@102
[What is important is that its an inspiration for doing good. ]

That is the question. You can`t ask your ancestor under what circumstances they were forced to convert? It is documented that in the name of Islam so many kafirs have been and are being killed. So many kafir woman have been raped, abducted and are being forcibly being converted. Look Outlook`s special edition of few month ago where they talk about hindu girls being abducted and converted.

Brother that is what makes me wonder how some body shows shardha and seek spirtualty in a character like Mohammad ? Is there somthing weird?

#101
Artsooji, i read your post just fine.. the point is yeh sub shraddha hai. what is factual and what is mythological after all? IMO if someone considers Ravana to be an ideal and does good deeds, thats just fine, whereas if someone considers Rama to be an ideal and does bad deeds, that sucks. In india, we consider everything from stones, rivers, snakes, monkeys, seas, mountains to be divine inspirations, why is so hard to see that mohammed is an inspiration to some (to be good and do good)? What is important is that its an inspiration for doing good.

Ref#100

Dear Jang

You did not read my mail. Krishna is a mythological or fictional character. You can criticise him. He is not a real person. Look how Hindu make fun of his womanising.

You must distiguish between fact and fiction. Mohammad`s deeds are factual where as Krishna is fictional and mythological.

#99 arstoo..i think it may be more like 16000 .. i think he slayed some bad guy (brahmasura?) and ``freed`` princesses in his harem, who fell instantly in love and married krishna. this interpretation enhances the greatness of krishna as a saviour and a desirable person, and similarly its not hard to imagine similar grace accorded to the prophet by those who love him.

ref#96
[#94 arstooji, yar marrying more just proves manliness. as legend goes, did not Krishna marry 18000 odd wives, and had romantic relations with a married mami? more powerful a guy, more women he could have. in india we are very open to a veriety of life-styles from shikhandis to draupadi to bhishma to krishna. same grace ought to be accorded to mohammed.]

Dear Jang,

You raised valid points. I will try to give you answers

1. Krishna is mythological and is not a real person. He is more metaphorical than actual person who may have ever walked on this earth.

2.Although Krishna being myuthological figure, did not marry those 18000 females after killing their brothers, sister, parents and clan folks.

3.Krishna did not use those mytholgical females as sex slave or slaves or did not win them in wars or did not tell yadu-vanshis to enjoy them.

More over I did not know Krishna marries 180000 wives but still I can answer your objections, but can you do the same to Mohammad`s excesses .

to balance out....
yes there are passages in the mahabharata and the puranas where we too are told the gods conducted genocidal wars against the asuras and vice versa.
Lord Rama is called ``Rakshasa-kula-nihantar``...killer of the race of the rakshasas.
In the mahabharata, Arjuna burns down the continental forst ``khandawa-wana`` including all its inhabitants and the wife and kids of MAYA-ASURA!

Yes those days were cruel..but that does not mean hindus justify genocides quoting ``their bible``!!

They do not ask muslims during riots to ``leave their women behind`` (regular messages on speakers ...as happened in shrinagar and elsewhere in kashmir.

They do not kill muslims by gunning them down after pulling them out of buses...on a regular basis in cold blood.

We realise what in religion is ``tyajya`` ...o be omitted.

Not so for these ``lakeer ke fakeers``..

In another 500 years this religion is going to be so anchronistic that its practitioners will have to be perforce, only ``goondas `` out for plunder!!

Sane people will be too ashamed to follow it openly.

Until ofcourse reform happens.
Hindus had the sati system to throw away, and they did..soon the rotten & reeking caste system will go.

What about muslims?
Jayen

Hi,
Salim bhai and others of his ilk...
I have read the koran. (a couple of times).
Indeed therin are passages clearly saying...kill the men and able boys of the kaffirs and share their women, girls and wealth!!

The muslim colleague was just ``quoting his bible`` (and leering at any women he would thus lay his hands on in the future..)..

Salim bhai aap ke bolnese aap ka dharam thode hi badalta hai?
Its guidelines on ``war booty`` are a chilling reminder why so much plunder always resulted in all islamic campaigns.

Why! the ``ever so tolerant`` akbar ordered a katle-aam of all people in cities he captured in Rajpootana.

Nadir shah`s sack of delhi is world famous and so is that by Abdali!!

Ek bhi acchi cheez batayen aap, ki aap log jang jeetay hain aur accha sulook kiya hai..

It was not for ``deen``..it was for the plunder and women!
That explains why all islamic wars always involve rapes and destruction.

Starting from the jehadi advice to pundits in kashmir to ``leave your women behind``..to Niazis exhortation..``to sort them out``..especially rape their women..in bangladesh..

To the fact that despite the retreat of the soviets in afghanistan, the pathans are ever retreating in a spiral of mayhem...

Now its is iraq pakistan and darfour where the buggers are slitting throats of women and children, and bombing school buses!!...

Wah kya tehjeeb hai..kya religion hai..aur yeh sab 21st century mein ho raha hai..

Jayen

#94 arstooji, yar marrying more just proves manliness. as legend goes, did not Krishna marry 18000 odd wives, and had romantic relations with a married mami? more powerful a guy, more women he could have. in india we are very open to a veriety of life-styles from shikhandis to draupadi to bhishma to krishna. same grace ought to be accorded to mohammed.

Re: #89 by Salim_Chauhan

[Krishna, my friend,
I don`t recall arguing with you about this subject or any other - perhaps it was a different janam for both of us. :) ]

Salim, my old friend. It is I, Ajeya, who was reincarnated as Ramanujan, and again as Krishna who speaketh to you.

Greetings!

Dear Brother Salim,

The name is ``Kothan`` and not ``Khotan``. I will find out the history book where I read it and send you the reference.

You make it sound all marriages of Kothan as if he was helping those poor damsels in distreess. Many of them were in great distress due Mohammad himself. For example Safiya, during the day her kills her family and in the night he screws her. What choice the poor woman has?

He sees his daughtre in law naked and marries her.

The only way to describe this kind of behaviour is like all animals Mohammad had will to life. What that means he wanted to give his sperm maximum oppurtunity to disperse. For doning that he broke all the social norms of the Arab world at that time (EG As DM pointed out that you never marry your brother`s daughter).

More over brother Salim, you are talking like man with blind faith. Please try to stick to specific issues raised in the mails and please don`t tell me what mohammad is called by mulsims or try to diffuse the issue. That way we will keep on going in circles and will not be able to come to an understanding.

If Muslims` don`t talk about these issues openly then world will talk about them. At one place you mentioned the website sword of truth, I will go there and see for mysef what i s written there.

Salim:

Thanks and case closed. :)

DM Sahib #91, {``If the reference is to my unfortunate comment a while ago which caused a furore at chowk, then the shoe does not fit.``}

DM Sahib,
The shoe does not fit. You were the last person on my mind when I mentioned that ``some of our friends who are infused with the highest sense of morality.`` Sir, that incident was a long long time ago and frankly I do not recall the gory details of the furor.

Lastly, why would I ever accuse you of being ``infused with the highest sense of morality.`` Such compliments are reserved for people like Tahmed2 and hamidum32. Before we get a flurry of e-mails with Punjabi expletives and numerous dots separating barely comprehensible thoughts, let me state that I was not referring to either. Frankly, I had some more recent individuals such as Chaltoo and others in mind. Peace and thanks.

Salim:
``Marrying a six year old daughter of your best friend has been called pedophilia by some of our friends here who are infused with the highest sense of morality``

If the reference is to my unfortunate comment a while ago which caused a furore at chowk, then the shoe does not fit. I never called the Prophet paedophile nor implied so; even today in contemporary India, child marriages are quite customary in your preferred ethnicity, Rajasthanis, as they were during the Prophet`s time.

My regrettable remark was about the ``best friend`` rather than the ``six year old`` daughter. To use your term, my comparison was ``horizontal`` and not ``vertical``. During the Prophet`s time, Arabs did have some codes of honour and one of them was that you did not marry someone`s daughter if you considered him your brother. The tradition has it that Abu Bakar at first objected to this proposal because he considered the Prophet his brother. The Prophet, however, countered by saying that Abu Bakar was his brother in Islam only and therefore it was quite halal for him to marry his daughter. No new alliance was created by this marriage; in fact, one can say that Abu Bakar would have declined the Prophet`s proposal if he was already not his close ally.

RE#89 {{{Salim seems eminently reasonable and a pacifist, but when you bring up Mohammed, all bets are off. I guess this is his big weakness.}}}

Krishna, Arstoo,.....

my thoughts on Salim Bhai:

We had extensive discussion with pmishra2 and others about this...last month....Not on Salim Bhai but on Bhakthi Marg and is it applies to Mo-Bhakthi...

Salim Bhai is a Mo-Bhakth... which means he does not look at Mo`s story/ history OBJECTIVELY.....but then WE SHOULDN`T EXPECT HIM to..do this..

If the virulent communalist Farzana Versey writes articles on Modi Hitler,Nazi, etc in India Salim Bhai comes and claps hands....


BUT THEN
I am yet to see a single Paki or any muslim condemn Islamic terrorism as vehemently

as Salim Bhai does...here....not even remotely close

Thus I consider Salim Bhai a rare specimen.....

Even more amazingly......he has posted his understanding of Hindu grievances we CAN NOT EVEN DREAM of hearing from ``secular`` Indians/ commies in India...

In reponse to FV`s article Delhiwala here posted that Gujju muslims are peaceful and it is all the fault of Hindus ....

Krishna_abcd #84, {``krishna_abcd Member since: May 4, 2006``}

{``It`s futile. On every other issue, Salim seems eminently reasonable and a pacifist, but when you bring up Mohammed, all bets are off. I guess this is his big weakness.
..if all Muslims thought like Salim, the world would have been a different place. ...I had several arguments with Salim where he turned hostile in the end. ...Give it up. It`s called blind faith. ``}

Krishna, my friend,
I don`t recall arguing with you about this subject or any other - perhaps it was a different janam for both of us. :)

Please read my responses in #s 88 and 89 to arstoo bhai. I am sincere when I state that the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is the source of my sincerity and pacifism. Yes, I do not necessarily follow everything that has ever been written down by everyone. I think that God gave us a mind and conscience to do the right thing at the right tiime under a particular set of circumstances - sorry, there is no ``one size fits all.`` Even the IRS had to come up with 1040, 1040EZ, and so on. My main suggestion, as I have stated before, is to evaluate people and events horizontally and not vertically. Thanks.