The Case for American Muslim Identity

ZahraJ #39, {``I think you should focus your energies elsewhere, more on the interacts and less on the people.``}

Zehra Behen,
Very good advice and I really appreciate you taking the time out to point out something that may help others. I am guilty as charged! I take personal insults, malicious lies, and vulgar remarks made by Ms. Saminasha and her colleagues too seriously. I should focus on the interesting topics and contributions on Chowk.

I promise you that I am going to make a concerted effort to do exactly as you suggested.

Thanks again,

Salim

Salim:

I think you should focus your energies elsewhere, more on the interacts and less on the people. Yes, you will not find everyone on Chowk to be sane and likeable. Unplugged has given refuge to many insane creatures who have thrived on building a world of their own. As I said earlier, you do not have to like everyone. Well, at times when you see a provocative post/view, you would definitely like to jump in. Just do not lose sight of basic manners. It`s none of your business how Samina looks like, how much she weighs and the personal choices she has made. Why should you care? She may not consider you worth a second look. Does it matter to you? It should not. So, do not cross the boundaries of basic manners. That`s simply unacceptable. I did not want to bring in the ``religious`` component into this picture but since you guys are on a board which revolves around religion in a way therefore it was important to give you a wake up call. I understand and know that it does not matter at all. Basic decency and religious/cultural identity are mutually exclusive matters.

Best of Luck on Chowk.


Samina: With due respect, you are following the same path that you are blaming Saleem for. You have posted this Psycopath article everywhere on Chowk. How should one differentiate between you two? I completely understand your concern on rudeness, misbehavior and invasion of privacy. I would not have any tolerance for that as well. But I would also not consider it worth my time to start following the ``psychopath`` on each and every board and provoke him. Something to think about.

Take Care.

#37, temporal {``i apologise for misidentifying the perpetrator of those porn picture charade ``}

Mr. Temporal,
Aw come one! Sir, you can do better than that. You have been caught with your pants down while lying. What you have provided is a pusillanimous attempt at contrition. It`s analogous to a convicted rapist apologizing for ``misdirecting his affection.`` Or UBL expressing regret over the ``aerial mishap in NYC caused by his novice pilots.``

You pontificate much about credibility. Sir, credibility is what Mr. Ranger demonstrated by his message in #182 on the ``Road to Perdition board.`` At great peril to himself and for no apparent gain, he took responsibility for the act for which you falsely accused me. His credibility has skyrocketed after this demonstration in courage and honesty. I have never known him to lie.

They must be teaching something right in India. Something that is obviously missing in the curriculum that ``educated`` you.

Certainly, sincerity is not one of your few qualities.

Thank you temporal.

Sincerely,

Salim

#36, thank you temporal

re #33:

i apologise for misidentifying the perpetrator of those porn picture charade

and

i reiterate my utter contempt for the poseur salim and his multi-nicks…in my book it never behooves a desi man to hold desi women in the kind of contempt he does…they have enough to fight on their hands already and should not be further burdened to fights delusional psychos here

and i also reiterate that this divisive and delusional psycho still has no credibility in my eyes

#33, Mr. Temporal: SHAME ON YOU. YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING.
#186 by mannu404 on August 25, 2005 1:08pm PT
#182, Mr Ranger {``to set the record `straighter` , it was me , the nick formerly known as Mr.Gujja , not Mr.Salim , who posted those photographs.``}

Thank you, Mr. Ranger.
Honesty is a quality that is far superior to any hypocritical claims of grandeur.
I really appreciate your candor and support in saving me from the ``Chowk gallows.``

Mr. Temporal,
If there is a shred of decency in you, you will apologize to me for your false accusation against me.

I don`t know if you believe in God, but He said:

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR

Thanks,
Salim

user posts | profile


#4 by mannu404 on August 25, 2005 1:17pm PT
#182 by Ranger on August 25, 2005 12:48pm PT

Dear Mr.Temporal ,

to set the record `straighter` , it was me , the nick formerly known as Mr.Gujja , not Mr.Salim , who posted those photographs. The photos of Ms. Samina McDonald and Ms. Sobia Aslam were taken from a public domain. The third photograph that you mention , that of a lady pleasuring a young black male might be for all we know , that of your Missus. Also taken from a rather popular public domain. Perfectly legal.


Posting or publishing imformation from a public domain is perfectly legal , contrary to what Ms.McDonald suggests. If Ms.McDonald has a problem with her personal information being posted on the web , then she can sue the person who first publishedf her information on her university website. She can also sue her photographer , but the success of such a course of action in the cout of law is doubtful because it is not the poor photographer`s fault that Ms.McDonald weighs in the excess of 350 lbs...

#33, Mr. Temporal {``chowkstaff has deleted hundreds of his indiscriminately pasted set of three pictures on unplugged on scores of threads…those deleted threads had the pictures of (1) samina (2) sobia and (3) a woman giving a blow job``}

Sir,
You are now engaging in untruths. I NEVER POSTED THOSE PICTURES. I HAVE NEVER EVEN SEEN THEM. I HAVE ``HEARD`` ALL THE JOKES AND CRUEL TAUNTS FROM SAMINASHA AND SCOUT THAT THOSE WERE OF MY WIFE.

Further, I resent this baseless, false, and insiduous attack on me. You, Mr. Temporal, in addition to being biased, are also a liar.

I wish to have no more conversations with the likes of you.

Thank you for exposing the final flaw in your lowly character.

FOR THE LAST TIME, I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OBSCENE PICTURES.

just to set the record straight

from Abdul Arif’s board

#31 by mannu404 on August 25, 2005 8:30am PT
#30, Ms. Saminasha,
In addition to being vulgar, rude, and profane, you are also a confirmed liar. I have never even seen the picture about the sexual scenes that you mentioned.

this delusional psycho for whom i have nothing but utter contempt has displayed his lack of credibility yet once again

chowkstaff has deleted hundreds of his indiscriminately pasted set of three pictures on unplugged on scores of threads…those deleted threads had the pictures of (1) samina (2) sobia and (3) a woman giving a blow job

today, this person with zilch credibility is feigning innocence, cleverly denying posting those porn photos and accusing sammi of lying

Zahra,

Please include mentally ill cultures in future analyses to fully capture what we are dealing with.

#30, Ms. Saminasha,
In addition to being vulgar, rude, and profane, you are also a confirmed liar. I have never even seen the picture about the sexual scenes that you mentioned. I am NOT responsible for your numerous altercations with others - Farzana, Mr. Montag, Queen Cut & Paste, Dotty, Syke, Gujju, Dehliwalla, Iron_Mask, Drlokraj, and numerous others. None of these is one of my nics. Whether you believe in the existence of my ``turkish wife`` is immaterial to me. I know that I am married, and therefore, I must have a wife. Regardless, it does not give you the right to insult her, thus proving your hypocrisy regarding your concern for ``female rights.``

Zehra,
Thank you for your kind attempt to be objective in this issue. If you noticed, on several boards, Ms Saminasha has appeared, only to have an altercation with me. She has contributed nothing to the topic under discussion. She just appeared to insult me. When she received her retribution in very polite terms, making her look rather childish, she resorted to having Chowk Staff remove the nics that taught her a lesson.

I was never interested in Ms. Saminasha and certainly did not go find her picture. That was done by others with whom she had been fighting. I merely posted it AFTER they provided it on Chowk UP. I have neither the time nor the interest to pursue such stupidity. What Ms Saminasha does in her personal life and what she looks like is her business. I can see how she feels that that particular picture is a major handicap. :)

Thanks,
Salim

Zahra,

You may not be aware of this, but almost everyone who has been stalked by the interactor ``Salim`` seriously doubts the existance of his ``Turkish`` ``wife``. The ``wife`` has become another sick joke that the interactor ``salim`` constantly refers to as a way of denigrating secularism in Muslim majority countries. Secondly, ``salim`` under several nics and assistance from two nics at one point posted my and another interactor`s pics repeatedly despite our requests that they cease. And yet, they did it intentionally in their attempts to harrass us. This is patent cyber harrassment.

Add to that, ``salim`` and co.`s posting of a woman engaged in a sexual act with our pictures, as well as posting explicitly sexual and physical remarks about five female interactors.

Finally, it should be noted that ``salim`` only fled to the fp when it became apparent that he and his friends could no longer operate on unplugged. Many thanks to the Chowk Staff and their endless patience, time and labor in making that clear.

My comment re: ``salim`s`` ``wife`` would never had been made was there any credible proof that such a spouse existed. It was made in response to the constant threats being made by ``salim`` and co to continue to post my pic. Chowk is within their rights to delete that post and anything I post that violates their guidelines.

best,

Samina:

Chowk`s cyber battles are no fun. They should be kept to the confines of the ``lawless`` world of unplugged. I agree with your concern on invading any interactor`s privacy. That`s simply rude and uncivil. I also think that it`s quite inappropriate to bring a person in the picture who is not even part of the ongoing dialogue. That`s where people get distracted and step on each other`s toes. Your remark about Saleem`s wife is equally distasteful. It`s evident that you are responding to his insults/rude remarks otherwise you won`t have taken this approach. In a way this is very ironic because the writer wants to have a world where muslims are under one umbrella inspite of their unique cultures. Both of you are giving a real life example that it is quite impossible to let go of the cultural element (be it insults, injuries, communication style and etc.) and keep the religious (common) identity closer to one`s chest.

Lastly, you do not have to make everyone understand your write-ups, i-logs and other interacts. Those who want to respond and appreciate will do that. There may be a % who will not respond and may express their concerns. Probably, they have a different taste.

Note: I do think that you should ask Chowk`s Admin to withdraw the remarks you have posted in your post #18. They should not be on Chowk`s main page.

#27, Mohtarma Samina Sahiba, :)

Thank you very much for the diagnosis. It appears that you peddle the same snake oil for all kinds of unrelated ailments. :)
Do you and Khamkhwa have a group practice?

Have a good night. :)

Salim Sahib,

Perhaps you really ought to pay attention to what several people at chowk have been saying to you: you need help:

Psychopath

Sociopath, anti-social personality, psychopath. Everyone should be wary of an individual who has glib charm, a soothing voice, a penetrating gaze, dramatic gestures, and engages in meaningless flattery and vague/inconsistent responses to personal questions. When a psychopath complains of how others treat him, it should be remembered who the real victims are likely to be.

INTRODUCTION

Callous, deceitful, reckless, guiltless, often intimidating and sometimes violent is the standard description of psychopaths, whose maladaptive patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving impair their daily functioning and disrupt the lives of those around them. Sociopathy in males has more serious implications than in females, and this disorder is found three times more often in men than in women.

The psychopath understands the wishes and concerns of others; he simply does not care. He believes that he has the right to do what he wants and to take what he can. He manipulates others by deception and/or intimidation, has an inflated opinion of himself and seeks out, then uses, the weaknesses he finds in others. There is no fair mindedness, no self doubt, no compassion or true affection.

THE PSYCHOPATHIC EXPERIENCE

The psychopath believes that rules and morals are for other, weaker people who obey because they fear punishment. He feels indifference and contempt for these others, who “have it coming.”

No matter how bright, and a psychopath is often very bright, he rarely maintains a regular job, pays his debts or serves the role of a responsible parent. He repeatedly abuses, abandons, or betrays sexual partners and any children he produces. It is estimated that 15-20% of prisoners carry this diagnosis. Conning and manipulating others is a way of life. For the woman in his life, he may have an ingratiating manner and superficial charm, be persuasive, poised and self-assured because he lacks the (self)conscious feelings that others would

have. Lying, evasiveness, feigned forgetfulness, vague and inconsistent answers about his past...his goal is partially to confuse and manipulate, but he also is indifferent to the truth. And he will lie simply for the fun of it, so much so that he eventually becomes caught. Yet even when cornered and confessing, he will offer flimsy excuses or insincere apologies and then go back to lying again.

THE SOCIAL LIFE OF THE SOCIOPATH

The sociopath or psychopath is incapable of loyalty, shame or guilt. He has no lasting close relationships. Although quick to anger and often irritable, he rarely feels sustained hatred since people mean so little to him.

What he refers to as love is, in fact, sexual attraction, a desire for flattery, physical comfort or material support. Quick to rage, he is often shallow and holds grievances toward anyone whom he perceives to be in his way. He refers to his own crimes as harmless pranks. He will often watch others for a clue of what emotion a situation demands. When he calls sadness is the failure of his most recent manipulative attempts.

The range of the antisocial personality is narcissism (self love) on one side and paranoia/sadism on the other. The narcissistic psychopath is less likely to be violent than the paranoid/sadistic. Hotheaded and coldhearted, he is provoked by perceived challenges to his inflated opinion of himself, is more likely to attack male strangers and more likely to respond to trivial or even non-existent provocations.

There may be two groups of psychopathic individuals: a. one who knows how to be glib, selfish, callous and deceitful and b. another group who is thrill-seeking, irresponsible, self-defeating, impulsive and lawbreaking. Due to short patience and impulsivity, the second group has recurrent problems with the law. The first group, however, can be more intelligent than individuals around him and achieve social success while doing appreciable damage in his public and private life.

Such individuals are more troublesome than troubled. They do not suffer the consequences of their own actions. They may be bored, tense, irritable and have physical complaints as well as inconvenient rages, but they do not emotionally pay for their own mistakes.

Anti-social individuals not only rely upon alcohol and illicit drugs from very early in life (and represent a very difficult group to treat); they are also among those most likely to traffic in drugs.

THEORIES OF PSYCHOPATHY

There are theories that hold that psychopaths conceal their anxiety because they cannot handle it in themselves or others. They deny depression to the extent that they cannot experience it. Such theorists hold that what these individuals really have in common is the fascination with fear, dislike and distrust that they inspire in others. Whatever the developmental nature of the antisocial personality disorder, the diagnosis is not applied to an individual under the age of fifteen to insure that there is a differentiation between a true psychopath and a merely rebellious adolescent. However, within the years following mid-adolescence, the existence of a psychopathic personality becomes increasingly clear. Adolescent gang members are not often psychopathic. They have strong loyalties and strict codes within their peer group. A true psychopath has adopted no cultural values, and all actions are for self-servicing strategic purposes, not to adopt the values of a peer group. He truly has no peer group.





PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES OF THE PSYCHOPATH

There are physical findings among sociopathic individuals which suggest a biological difference between them and others. They appear to have a weak startle response, low heart rate, low tendency (galvanic skin response) to perspire in stressful situations, and low anticipatory anxiety...they do not worry. This imperviousness to anxiety may explain why they fail to learn, since much of our learning is based upon the need to avoid future anxiety for ourselves and others.



There is some evidence that anti-social personalities begin to burn out in their 40’s with regard to impulsive aggression and crime. Most do not wind up in treatment; they wind up in trouble. And for their doctors, they represent treatment dilemmas since the pain they inflict upon their victims and society as a whole makes it difficult to imagine wanting to help them. It is also clear that good outcome to treatment does not appear to be related to IQ, family history or imprisonment. Bad outcome does appear to be related to alcohol and other substance abuse.

Whether tending toward the narcissistic or tending toward the sadistic, the antisocial personality represents a consistent legal and moral dilemma.

MANAGEMENT OF THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY

Management rather than treatment is likely the most appropriate term. Since these individuals will inflict rather than experience suffering, it is exceedingly rare that they seek treatment except to access prescription drugs. Clearly, early identification and attempts to contain their victimization of others and misuse of resources becomes the primary goal. Since true remorse does not occur, motivation for change is absent.

#25, Other than receiving (and sometimes returning) verbal abuse, profanity, and vulgarity, I have not learned anything of value from you during the entire 14 months I have been on Chowk. I find your cut & paste pollution to be a nuisance and never bother to read your plagiarized material. Your views are thoroughly predictable, one-sided, monolithic, and quite dogmatic.

You are also lying. I never went and searched for your infamous photos. They were posted on Chowk with URLs to public websites that were totally unprotected with any passwords. Had those photos not been a real handicap for you, your opponents would never have pestered you with them.

The reason for Salim to accumulate numerous nics is that you beg your Chowk Mamma to ban those nics, because you keep losing your debates with him and his friends. Please don`t call me ``Muslim`` or any other term having any connotations of belonging to any group that may include you. :)

Salim

Zahra,

Salim/Hiro, etc. is a cyber psychopath that Chowk has unfortunately been unable to deal with. I am sure you are aware of his frenetic chowk posting in the past year. His posting pics of women interactors on chowk began six months ago with the encouragement of Amir Saulat Jafri, the Canadian interactor known as Echoboom.

You are right in pointing out his consumate cowardice. His ``Muslim`` courage consists of accumulating many nics and then posting harassing interacts under them. These nics have been repeatedly banned, his posts repeatedly deleted and yet, in his pathetic notion of ``freedom of speech``, he continues to misuse and abuse chowk resources for his own bigotry.

This is what constitutes ``dialogue`` with ``Muslim`` men according to this scourge.