Sex and Pakistan vs. Rape and The World Media

I am a little surprised by many of the essays I`ve read on this site. I have however found a trend. It seems that Islam is viewed as archaic and primitive, while things western have a sense of decency and are worthy of respect.

First of all, we must realize that there is a difference between culture and religion. The culture of Pakistan is very deep and is not a true Pakistani culture, in fact, Pakistan doesn`t really have its own culture. It does have an Indian culture involving many Hindu customs and pagan customs.

We should distinguish culture from religion and not mix/confuse the two. The things which are going on in Pakistan are very sad and far from Islam. I may not be Pakistani, but I have lived there for a couple of years. I am a convert to Islam and this issue in particular touches near and dear to my heart.

What is my culture? I am American, but is this my culture? What is American culture? We`re a mix of everything. If you look at what the people are doing here I can not and should not adopt these ways. In fact, if I am to be a Muslim, I have to leave these practices behind, otherwise becoming a Muslim serves me no good in this world. In the next world, maybe after a being punished then Allah will let me into Jinnah because I am a Muslim Insha`Allah.

We have to leave culture behind and live according to Islam, and in this way these ridiculously obscene and absurd problems will also be left behind. Think back to the preislam era. People used to go to the Prophet (SAW) and tell him of the horrible things they have done such as burying their baby girls alive, sharing their women with each other, locking up their women during menses, etc. You see, if there are injustices going on in Pakistan, it is simply due to the fact that the people are ignorant to what Allah has told us in the Quran in regards to what we are to do, and in addition, there are those who do know what is right but due to their own will refuse to act in the right way. We all make mistakes and we`re all on different levels with regard to our iman and practice, but we must make efforts to understand Islam and practice it correctly.

The things you`ve mentioned are not accurate and I`m afraid your article is very weak due to this. Obeying Allah does not make one primitive; however, not obeying Allah will take one back to the ignorance of the preislamic era, which is sadly where I see many Muslims going toward.

Believe it or not, but westerners are realizing that they are going in the wrong direction and due to this they are turning toward Islam in large numbers. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and it would not be so if it was a primitive way of living. Muslim women converts have no problem with purdah and have no problem in obeying Allah, because it`s their desire to be more than a Muslim by birth or by name. Muslim converts realize that there is no point really of being part of a religion in which you derive no benefit from.

Islam was sent in perfected form to us and it is us who become disallusioned and mistaken.

Your sister in Islam. Aisha

[i had mistakenly posted my comment in ur article `sex and pakistan`.Though whatever i have said is equely true of all your article.i find most of your articles superficial and ridiculous.]
very well written but highly superficial and simplistic in both its content and analysis.you are perhaps so confident in thinking that whatever `today``s women think is right regardless of what its intellectual creditablity is.between the lines you have condemned islamic values by associating it with mullahism.you have a very poor understaing of islam and its devolopment throughout the history.islam is a civilization not an ideaolgy but a civiliztion is capable of producing innumerable ideaologies differing with eachother both in content and essence.you can not analyse civilizations an ideaologies with this kind of superficial analysis.structures of civilizations are incrediably complicated which is impossible to comprehend without the help of indepth analysis of philosophical systems and 20th centuary philosophical movements.civiliztion itself is an evidence of human behaviours n conducts.sometimes civilizatons can take different forms by resisting other civilizations and abstarct ideaologies.you just seem to be completly unaware of the basic methods of social analysis.As for as islam is concerned one has to understand it as a whole.its not a misogynistic religon by any means though it instists on some sort of basic moralities which can be understood by psychological methods not by logical[u dont know even logic].i can refute your pseudo analysis in one article.but i wont coz i know u r unawre of philosophical thinking and methods.just try to see things with proper methodologies rather than doing it with qoutations n superficial articles of newspapers.i m doing phd in philosophy[from germany,i m not very well up in englis[.so i m superficial in english[LoL].

very well written but highly superficial and simplistic in both its content and analysis.you are perhaps so confident that in thinking that whatever `today``s women think is right regardless of what its intellectual creditablity is.between the lines you have condemned islamic values by associating it with mullahism.you have a very poor understaing of islam and its devolopment throughout the history.islam is a civilization not an ideaolgy but a civiliztion is capable of producing innumerable ideaologies differing with eachother both in content and essence.you can not analyse civilizations an ideaologies with this kind of superficial analysis. structure of civilizations are incrediably complicated which is impossible to comprehend without indepth analysis of philosophical systems and 20th centuary philosophical movements.civiliztion itself is a evidence of human behaviours n conducts.sometimes civilizatons can take different forms by resisting other civilizations and abstarct ideaologies.you just seem to be completly unaware of the basic methods of social analysis.As for as islam is concerned one has to understand it as a whole.its not a misogynistic religon by any means though it tends to set some sort of basic moralities which can be judged by psychological methods not by logical[u dont even know what logic is].i can refute your pseudo analysis in one debate.but i wont coz i know u r anawre of philosophical thinking.just try to see things with proper methodologies instead of doing it with qoutations n superficial articles of newspapers.i m doing phd in philosophy[sociology of knowledge and philosophy of social sciences].

Re: # 340

So you also belong to the same category. My objection is why should one be personal and judgmental. We are here to discuss certain topics and not personalities of chowky participants. It may be a sheer generation gap. In my age one begins to see reality shorn of its sentimental rubbish. One who cannot see the difference between an abstract woman and her filial relations with man is an abject goon in my eyes. I would suggest that chowk may be restricted to adults only above 40 to avoid the generation gap clashes.

Anyhow I am sorry what appeared to you, dear Bhatti and tahmed, a `rubbish`.

teshah #339 You obviously stand by the rubbish you wrote, but without explicitly admitting it. As for your rude reply to dullabhatti, there is nothing in his post that would be considered coming frm a ``ganwaar``. In fact, he is being quite generous to you in giving you a way out by saying that perhaps you were using ``extreme sarcasm``.

Your response, added to the rubbish you wrote about that I brought to your attention in #334, speaks volumes of your own upbringing plus your inability to learn anything after that despite your age.

Re: # 338

You have become too, personal, judgmental and abnoxious , dear Bhatti. A wise man had rightly said, ` To say a wrong thing before a right man is no harm but to say a right thing before a wrong man is very dangerous`. But we cannot be selective here. There are here gentlemen like Dost-mittar and low-caste ganwaar like Bhatti. Sorry, no offence intended.

teshah is either using extreme form of sarcasm to convey his message or he needs to be sent to some mental insitituion. can`t figure out which one is the case.

he is atleast 5 years older than my father...if he really means what he says then I am shocked beyond belief.

teshah is either using extreme form of sarcasm to convey his message or he needs to be sent to some mental insitituion. can`t figure out which one is the case.

teshah #335 I am sorry but your post makes no sense at all. What does it have to do with what i quoted from your post? Is this all that you have ever learnt throughout your life??

Re: # 334

tahmed32

It would say this much only; Don`t be too moralistic about sex. You don`t know the ground realities in Pakistan. I personally am passed that age when sex makes one mad. BTW, you might have seen a vidio report of rape of a girl aged four and a half on GEO TV in their program titled `Alim-on-line` a few days back. The rapist, a bearded hafiz nimazi type man, who raped and tortured the girl, his sister-in-law, stated in his video confession that he committed the heinous crime because he was overtaken by `heiwaaniat` (animal instint). And when asked what he did afterwards, he said he went straight to a mosque to offer `namaz`. He was not a mad man. Beware of `Namazies`. They are generally oversexed people always on the borderline of `heiwaniat`. No offence intended. As human beings we are all prone to this `heiwaniat`. Touba, touba karte rahie.

regards

teshah #328 you write `` I know most of the victims don’t even make a mention of it, probably because they enjoyed it or were suitably compensated ``

Have you people all gone mad in Pakistan??

bbabu #331 This article is on the mark!!

Salim_Chauhan #277

`` Here is something that our own Chowk feminazis are proud of. Can you see why Pfc England is a role model for them? ``

While she is guilty of violating spirit of human decency, US military code of conduct and cultural sensitivities of Iraqi why pick on her ? A lot of male officers and soldiers thought it is okay to indulge in such activities.

Gen. Musharraf `s Lies

Saturday, October 1, 2005; A16

PAKISTANI President Pervez Musharraf complains that his country is unfairly portrayed as a place where rape and other violence against women are rampant and frequently condoned. In fact, it deserves such a reputation. According to Pakistani human rights groups, thousands of attacks are reported every year, including gang rapes and ``honor killings`` of women who are accused of having affairs or who refuse an arranged marriage. Most of these attacks go unpunished. So retrograde are Pakistan`s laws that there are more than 1,500 women in prison as a result of rapes -- they were prosecuted for adultery -- while arrests of men occur in only about 15 percent of reported cases.

Gen. Musharraf, too, deserves the reputation he is earning as a ruler who cares more about how he is perceived in the West than in implementing the policies he claims to espouse, or even in speaking the truth. The general, who seized power in a coup six years ago, has reneged on promises to retire from the army or restore democracy. He has not carried out the reform of Islamic religious schools that he promised in 2001. He has allowed the extremist Afghan Taliban movement to base itself in Pakistan`s western provinces with virtual impunity. He has repeatedly insisted, almost certainly falsely, that Osama bin Laden is not in Pakistan. All the while he has gone on collecting hundreds of millions of dollars in aid each year from the Bush administration, which accepts his words and ignores most of his actions.

Gen. Musharraf claims to champion a ``moderate Islam`` that respects the rights of women. But when Mukhtar Mai, a victim of a gang rape whose attackers have not been punished, tried to visit the United States earlier this year, the president barred her from leaving the country. In an interview with The Post last month, he claimed that he had relented. But then he said this: ``You must understand the environment in Pakistan. This has become a money-making concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.`` This statement was, as Pakistani activists and the Canadian government soon pointed out, an outrageous lie. There is only one known case of a rape victim moving to Canada, a doctor who was assaulted by a military officer. A far more common outcome for rape victims is to be ostracized by their communities or jailed.

When Gen. Musharraf`s statement provoked an uproar, he responded with another lie: He claimed that he had never made it. In fact, a recording of him speaking is available on The Post`s Web site, washingtonpost.com. His words are quite clear. ``These are not my words, and I would go to the extent of saying I am not so silly and stupid to make comments of this sort,`` the general said. Well, yes, he is.
© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Re: # 37

Romair

I am impressed by your realistic approch to the problem of rape in Pakistan. I don`t however agree with the remedy suggested by you, the empowerment of women. What do you mean by it? Do you suggest empowerment of the woman like the one available thousand of years ago to a woman named Zulekha of Egypt who had got Yusaf, the Israili prophet, imprisoned for merely resisting her attempt to rape him. You can see advertisements all over Pakistan for treating `Mardaana kamzori` but centres only for `Women Empoverment` at public expence opened by the most poweful woman in Pakistan, Ms Nilofar. She has made it possible to get the rape victims awaded with gold medals even. What a perfidious joke is going on in the pakland in the name of `empowerment`.

teshah sahib # 328

i raised two issue with your post #310 in my post #311

sadly #328 does not address either one of them....in fact you have muddied the waters further...khair!

rgds

t

ps: let this be said that we do not know each other personally... your claims in #310 were so outlandish that i suggested you should validate them by speaking to female members of your immediate or extended family...that is all...the tawaif`s story and response is not what i suggested!