The Amazing Khatris of Punjab

Re: # 29

Delhiwala,

I am amazed. Most of our Sikh relatives were killed in partition (fighting as a rearguard in imposible suicide missions against amazing odds so that the larger community of Hindus and Sikhs could escape), one of our relatives who was a commited Arya Samaji later became a Sanatanist because of the heroism of the Khalsa in such trying times (He never became Khalsa as he said he was not worthy to be one).

Some Hindus may not like Sikhs in General (due to the fact they are unbelievably aggressive) but believe me hve nothing against the Khalsa. With my own eyes I have seen such a miracle in Tamil Nadu where in the moffusil town of Thirumayam where there is still two tumbler system for Dalits on Gurupurab all Hindu castes came together and ate the Langar. When I asked my host who was a casteist himself that how could he pollute himself eating with Vellalars and Chakliars he sternly told me in ``Guru Veeda`` (``Guru`s House``) there is no place for caste and pollution and while he would forgive this second transgression (the first being asking why Dalits are not allowed in temples) I dare not commit either again.

Regards
Sanatani

r.a.janjua#217:

Those British district officers were an incredible lot. Even without any formal training in sociology, they were keen chroniclers of the people. I know that at least until the 1961 Census, the Indian census continued with this tradition and published District Census Handbooks for each district. During late 1960s, I did a short stint in the Delhi Census Office and did some research on the festivals observed in Delhi. For that, I even participated in the Id Namaz and had an interview with the Imam of Jama Masjid. It was fun!

``and the kazi and the brahmin are both present on such occasions. ``
LOL!!

r.a.janjua: thanks. The british in india maintained an impressive set of details on local tribes - a friend of mine who served as political agent told me how he found descriptions of the local tribesmen at his office that were left over from the days of the british raj to be still useful.

re: tahmed, dost-mittar

i have the gazetteer of the rawalpindi district (1893-94) - its quite an interesting read - here are some factoids from it:

population:
awan 129,812
arora 13,520
gujar 35,854
jat 23,863
mughal 33,103
pathan 39,151
rajput 142,864
sayad 21,427

amongst the rajputs:
janjua 13,363
gakhar 7,714
satti 9,444
chauhan 6,844
bhatti 31,432
some other rajput clans listed are: chhib, dhanial, gondal, jaswal, minhas, rathor, sial, tiwana

these are just some of the numbers - i have`nt listed all the tribes and their subdivisions, etc.

on khatris:
the place of the bania of other districts is, in this district, taken by the khatri. the khatri of the western tehsils, however, is very different in personal character from the bania of the districts further south. he is very independent in manner and conduct, and often fierce and intractable.

col. cracroft thus describes the khatri of jandal in by-gone days, and some part of the charateristics thus described are to be found in their descendents of the present day: `` if, on the one hand, the khattar be fierce and blood thirsty, the khatri of jandal is courageous and perservering, and although living from day to day with a knife at his throat is as defiant as if he were backed by force far out-weighing that of the khattars and khattaks and afridis together.``

on gakhars:
old religious customs, obviously of hindu origin, are still observed by the gakhars, or were until within a very short period, such as customs at marriage ... and the kazi and the brahmin are both present on such occasions.

this district-wise comparison seems to be based on a 20-year average (1874-1894).
wheat (sers/rupee):
rawalpindi 35
jhelum 35
hazara 42
peshawar 30

bajra (sers/rupee):
rawalpindi 45
jhelum 44
hazara 50
peshawar 40

Re: # 211
DM,
I knew a Hindu Police officer who was Janjua, and another one who was a Sikh union leader.

r.a.janjua:

Thanks for the link. The jat/rajput distinction is more pronounced in India than in Pakistan. Also, there is a good deal of mix-up - Minhas are Khatris in India and Rajputs in Pakistan; Bhattis are Rajputs in Pakistan and Jats in India, Sials are Jats/Rajputs in Pakistan and Khatri in India. In India, there was/is also a big taboo against jat/khatri marriage; in fact marriages between Hindus and Sikhs were more common than between Jats and Khatris. The distinction between Jats and Rajputs seems to be less clear-cut among Pakistanis.

r.a.janjua: glad you found the posts interesting. i have started doing a bit more reading on this, and if i think i have something new to add on the matter of gujjars in particular, will write it up on chowk. i found the link you provided in #214 to be quite interesting as well. if you have any other links, books wrt gujjars or indeed any of the various other tribes in the panjab (since to understand the history of even one tribe, one needs to have a broader perspective i think), i would appreciate the info.

re: 211

not really - janjuas can be muslim, hindu and sikh - even christian - they are white huns and apparently did`nt like what they believed in before migrating to punjab around 300 a.d. i have`nt done any research on the pre-migration religion of white huns.

from rajputsamaj:
http://www.rajputsamaj.net/miscellaneous/pakrajput.htm

as for the name - prof. dani thinks that it probably derives from ``jouan-jouan`` - name of a central asian tribe which forced its way into punjab around 325-75 a.d.

Re: # 205
[...Personally what I would prefer seeing exterminated is the rotten notion of “upper” and “lower” castes ....]

I would prefer extermination of ``caste`` altogether..... because as long as if you have castes - there will be the notion of ``upper`` and ``lower`` - that`s inevitable..... You have to get rid of the rotten notion of ``caste``.... that`s where the problem lies.....

Re: # 202 DM
[....Are you in favour of closing all university departments dealing with sociology, caste or anthropology?....]

No.... but I am not very comfortable with too much discussion on castes - praising this caste or that caste.....

r.a.janjua#210:

Am I correct in assuming that janjuas are almost always Muslims? From what I remember hearing from elders, the name connotes the Hindu origin and comes from the name of the sacred thread that high caste hindus used to wear until a couple of generations ago.

re: 203

``These sound very similar to Punjabi hindu/sikh last names.``

the reason they sound ``very similar``, einstien, is because they are the same names.

re: tahmed

you should write an article on gujjars. your posts were very interesting.

teshah #200 You are right that economics is the prime factor that divides people. However, I think there is much more to the role of economics than than the class stratification that you indicate.

That is, one of the few things Marx wrote that have stood the test of time is his identification of the ``Mode of Production`` as being the underlying factor that determines the political, social and cultural mores of a given society. Thus, Marx noted that agricultural societies tend to have a feudal set up, while industrial societies have a capitalist set up. If we extend this to post-industrial societies (like the US, and which is where the rest of the world is headed due to the increasing share of the service sector), we see a post-capitalist set of political, social and cultural mores emerging - where the US serves the bellwether nation, i.e. an indicator of where the rest of the world is headed. This being the famous ``Americanization`` that the europeans hated so much, and is also resented by conservative people in the muslim world in particular - but where it is not America that is to blame but the underlying change in the global economy, i.e. the change in Marx`s Mode of Production to service economy at a global scale. But there are a lot of very healthy aspects to these trends - the economic security assured to many people in richer nations causes them to think longer term that benefits society as a whole rather than scrambling to gather wealth without concern for damage done to society.

This post-industrial society also tends to reduce the importance of status based on economic wealth, and to replace it with other considerations. And indeed it may well be replacing status based on any consideration other than one`s personal contributions to society (whether in science, literature, sports or any other field of human endeavor). At least some such fundamental changes that go beyond mere stratification based on personal income/wealth can be expected if one keeps in mind that the fundamental changes taking place in the global economy are bound to have fundamental changes on our social, cultural and political mores, per the marxist concept of the Mode of Production.

Sorry for a slightly heavy discussion to the rather simple point you made - but this I think is closer to the reality today.

Re: # 203

Good Point. I think that during Mughal rule Punjabi Muslims gave up their last names to survive better.

I don`t think that during 1000 yrs of Muslim rule any Punjabi Muslim ruled Punjab. It was mostly Afghans and Iranians.

great article - thanks dost-mittar.