Rifts, Fissures, Cracks, Gaping Holes

Ref bbabu #92

[`` Perhaps what we have been conducting in India is an experiment in Eugenics. For thousands of years, we have been breeding brains with brains and we end up with two TamBrahms with Nobel Prizes. We also have been breeding cretins because we don`t kill people with mental deficiencies. It is just that the cretins have been forced to marry other cretins. Thus we have Soysauce and Masanamuthu representing the lowest and highest intelligence possible among congenital idiots. For someone like you with your liberal leanings, this might be hard to digest. ``

2 Nobel Prizes is measily compared to 100+ by Jews.]

All the Nobel Prizes in Physics since about 1950 have been awarded for ``Big Science`` requiring hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars of equipment. Check how many Nobels have gone to physicists working at Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, CERN, and the various National labs in the US.

The two TamBrahms got their Nobel Prizes with no funding whatsoever. CV Raman was working in his lab and dicovered the Raman Effect with a simple experiment. Prof. Chandrasekhar developed his theory on black holes during his voyage from India to England.

This of course escapes your OBC brain.

[To say that genetics is the sole determinant of intelligence and achievement in the offspring is quite silly.]

Then caste has no influence on intelligence and so you need no quotas. On the other hand, if you demand quotas, you are admitting that you are born a cretin due to family history.

Ref swarrier #90

So let me bring to your attention the recent incident in admission to the MD program in Indian medical colleges.

The ``intelligent`` BC/MBC/OBC/SC/ST MBBS graduates who wanted to pursue their MD smuggled in a pen-sized optical scanner. They scanned the examination paper and sent out the scanner. A bunch of ``intelligent`` BC/MBC/OBC/SC/ST doctors sitting in a nearby hotel room downloaded the questions from the scanner into a computer, looked up the answers from textbooks and sent SMS messages on cell phones to candidates taking the exam. The racket was discovered when folks who had flunked the exam last year scored the top 10 ranks this time. In short order, the police have arrested the exam-takers and their accomplices (who included some medical college professors too!)

How do I know that not a single brahmin was involved in this? Easy; not a single brahmin has been admitted to medical colleges in Tamil Nadu for the last 40 years.... well. not quite, but the brahmins who had to move the Supreme Court to get into the medical college don`t count because the justices agreed that they were better qualified than the BC/OBC/MBC/SC/ST crowd.

So much for trying to make silk purses out of sows` ears or doctors out of goatherds.

You got anything to say about this?

I don`t think so.

Ref swarrier #90

[You can`t stand discrimination for 55 years, but is it okay to discriminate against people for over a millenium and then be vituperative about them?]

What was the discrimination against non-Brahmins? That they were not allowed to attend Veda classes for 3000 years. Are these fcukers clamoring to get into schools where the Vedas are being taught?

[I`ve known idiot Brahmins , there is no reason why they should profit over somebody better qualified.]

But that idiot brahmin is willing to compete and lose on a level footing. It is your ``intelligent`` BC/MBC/OBC/SC/ST that demands special privileges and reservations.

If they don`t want to compete on a level playing field, then they are condemned to wear the label ``cretin``.

Ref asli-Masanamuthu #94

[When schooling changed over from the gurukul system to the western method of imparting secular education in a neutral setting, brahmins also made the switch, since they were pretty much the only ones involved in the gurukul system.]

U. V. Swaminatha Iyer recounts in his autobiography that his uncle was a 5th generation Tamil teacher.

If we brahmins are all migrants to Tamil Nadu, what kept you Masanamuthus from formally learning your own mother tongue?

[This gave them a head start when it came to acquiring useful, modern knowledge. It was nothing more than happenstance.]

If so, then you guys were not disadvantaged because the brahmins refused to teach you the Vedas, right? So, exactly what was your disadvantage except your lack of brains and your refusal to learn?

[Even tho as a person of brahmin parentage, i have been at the wrong end of the reservation system, i heartily endorse the quota system.]

I told you that the only way you could continue to support your untenable position was to call yourself a brahmin.

You have done that for the second time now.

Not that I am deceived.

But it shows how little of the grey matter you have in your cranium.

Re: # 94 soy
[....Even tho as a person of brahmin parentage, i have been at the wrong end of the reservation system, i heartily endorse the quota system...]

And you are not alone... in fact - many progressive people who also ``heartily endorse the quota system`` are all higher-caste people..... everybody realizes the scale is loaded against low-caste people and have to balanced one way or the other....

But the question is: where is the ``creamy layer`` in this struggle? ...why is he still claiming the privilege?... why doesn`t he voluntarily give-up his privilege in favor of another fellow-dalit?.... why is the big bad brahmin always making all the sacrifices to balance the scale?.....

time has come to review the situation.... in the current form - it doesn`t solve anything - on the contrary, it makes it worse - the creamy layer gets the lion`s share while they least deserve it....

Quota system should be completely based on the current family economic condition.... if you are poor - you get a boost - no matter what caste you belong to.... since many dalits are poor - they get automatically included....

Of course - definition and certification of who is poor have to be very strictly implemented - so that crafty people don`t find loop holes to get in....

Re: # 93 jang
[...here is why indians are not good at bulding cars. its because the ``knowledgable`` brahmins were averse to doing any real work for at least a millenium, all the toil done by those without any access to knowledge. that is the reason a sickle or a plough in india NEVER changed since the bronze age.....]

Makes sense... we all know bad brahmins kept a monpoly on education and prevented others from it..... but one thing I never understood is - why didn`t these other guys start their own schools and system of education?.... the brahmin was the mean, bad guy who didn`t allow other castes to his school - all that other caste people had to do was open a school in his own village or home and get going from there....

I mean - we are talking about thousands of years here..... over thousands of years, the big bad brahmin kept doing this blatant discrimination on the other castes .... so what were other caste guys thinking?.... from all acoounts - they were in a majority - had physical power [ as opposed to the fat cat brahmin nerds ] .... who was going to stop them if they opened their own school?.....

I can talk about my own caste [OBC] - in by gone days, my caste folks used to be temple builders, civil engineers if you will - their achievements are there for all to see - Puri temple, konark temple and bunch of others... but these guys never put anything on paper - no community-wise kowledge transfer - no institionlized learning, no plans for future generations - these guys had money, fame, patronage - but they did nothing to make sure their art/craft/skills stay alive.... now, all they do is make cabinets....

You can`t blame this on brahmins.... So harimau has a point - brahmin did bad things, for sure - but other people had options.... but they never excercised their options... even now - after 60 years of affirmative action - there is a substantial creamy layer of ``dalits`` who have money, power - what exactly are these folks doing to get their other folks out of the poverty?... where are the dalit sponsored schools, co-operatives, hospitals, community help centers?....

I mean - how long can you blame it on harimau`s grand poppy?....

every person should have to right to lead his own life

``#66 by sanatani on March 22, 2006 2:43am PT
Re: # 54

Abe Stuka,

Rashtravadi Narendrabhai Modi ko opoose kar ke commie ka rona mat ro? Pricks like u r any day a bigger problem than the commie. See my interact to DM. When are u and ur APNA types` taking Train to Pakistan (one way, no return ticket and surrender passport at the border).

Absolutely no Regards
Sanatani``

Who is this idiot? Is India his father`s property that he tells people to gove up their passports???

#95 reva315

Thanks for ending on a positive note. It would be even better if you could point to specific resources, organizations, individuals who are active in the area of education. Success stories, horror stories, so-so stories could also be shared. We all know that the state of mass education in india is a disgrace for so many reasons; the question is how to change it.

I was very pleased to see a ``giving portal`` go online. The organizations are selected for meeting certain standards of professionalism and with some interaction with the donor supported. The URL is:

http://www.giveindia.org/give/common/HomePageAction.do

I am allergic to ``theoreticians`` who waste time explaining how the brahmins were awful, the mughals were beasts, its all the fault of the british, only troskyist-marxist-leninism will help etc. This is pure bakwaas. The real question is how to change things TODAY and TOMORROW.

#96 ``In schools across India, rote learning is the order of the day.``

this is a brahmin trait..they were big on learning scriptures and shlokas by the rote, since they did not want to write it down. even now you see the nri kids muggin up shlokas without understanding anything. please take it up with your aiyar brother, thanks.

re: Revathy # 95

That was a good post. Both its meaning and its purpose were clear.

re:#94 by soysauce
(When schooling changed over from the gurukul system to the western method of imparting secular education in a neutral setting, brahmins also made the switch, since they were pretty much the only ones involved in the gurukul system.)
India`s ancient Gurukula was dependent on endowment from kings who were kshatriyas (ruling class). They sent their children to these schools. It was a kind of residential system where students lived with their teacher and learnt whatever the teacher taught. Kshatriyas far outnumbered the brahmins.
The education was free. Children of royalty mingled with others. Not a perfect set up by any means but the best that could be conceived in those times.
AFAIK, only the shudras were not allowed.
Brahmins were the teachers, educators, writers, intellectuals. Their professsion demanded that they be all that just as kshatriyas were expected to take up arms and fight when needed. When British came, they saw no reason to rock the boat and continued with the system where brahmins automatically came to serve them in important positions by virtue of their vocation.
Much has changed since India`s independence. India has the biggest affirmative action (aka reservation) in place and benefits lower classes directly. That it celebrates mediocrity and penalises merit is another matter.
Sridhar

re:#65 by einsteinwallah
In schools across India, rote learning is the order of the day. The emphasis is on passing exams and not learning skills. Also, there is no emphasis on critical thinking and problem solving.
I work with a Practice Group in US. All my colleagues are white americans. One of my colleague`s daugher is in 6th or 7th grade and she was required to take up a 1 year project about a country. She took up India. This means, she gets to collect all she knows about India: its various facets like geography, language, culture etc and present the info periodically to the class. It is impressive to say the least. Such a project encourages a kid to research and learn about another nation`s culture and broaden one`s horizon. How much more useful this is than rote learning from a book about India!
Sridhar

There is no one answer to all these complex questions. Caste and its subtext, discrimination against other humans, will exist in one form or another for ever, But if each one of us who inveighs against society and fellow-contributors to Chowk(!), can contribute time to teach, send one child from a poor family to school, or help with nutrition, hygiene, uniforms, books, fees, it can make an immense difference. We are so fond of yelling insults at each other, (just take the responses to this article), we lose sight of the main picture.
The worst thing is to say,``I``m fine, and me and mine are fine, I couldn`t care less what happens to the rest!``
Thanks for all the passionate replies. Get people moving!
Revathy

#90 speaking of idiot brahmins, harimau is an excellent example.

When schooling changed over from the gurukul system to the western method of imparting secular education in a neutral setting, brahmins also made the switch, since they were pretty much the only ones involved in the gurukul system. This gave them a head start when it came to acquiring useful, modern knowledge. It was nothing more than happenstance.
As Jang alludes, our administrative system has been staffed with high castes, and especially brahmins starting from the british era. If you think the country is screwed up, blame it on the brahmins then.
I have known lots of idiot brahmins who got cushy jobs because they had vital connections - someone knew someone else who was in a secretariat in dilli and the person gets a helping hand, gets a few promotions like clockwork and the cycle starts over with him helping someone else. Not surprisingly, the connections are caste related.
What the reservation system attempts to do is break these connections and restore some semblance of equal opportunity. You have to swing the other way a little to make for all the advantages that the current set enjoys.
Even tho as a person of brahmin parentage, i have been at the wrong end of the reservation system, i heartily endorse the quota system. It has its flaws and it needs to be tweaked for sure, but that it is there sends a strong message to the deprived castes that there is some hope. It may not transpire at the end, but it`s better than nothing.

here is why indians are not good at bulding cars. its because the ``knowledgable`` brahmins were averse to doing any real work for at least a millenium, all the toil done by those without any access to knowledge. that is the reason a sickle or a plough in india NEVER changed since the bronze age..why? the brahmin was busy reading the four vedas and cooking up yet another purana or some cock-n-bull puja to extract alms.

one good caste brahmin of most excellent rigvedi lineage, experet in sandhya, and of Vasishta gotra (which is offcourse a premier gotra) was visiting and tried helping me remove some snow on the driveway. about 3 1/2 minutes into the excercise he started wondering how snow removal tools can be improved, method can be modified, and came up with a large number of possible alternatives such as 1) a special puja, 2) a canopy for the driveway to keep snow off 3) a heating system and so forth.

offcourse he had the choice of such lateral thinking..over time perhaps he would have improved the shovel (or called the plough-guy). a peasant in a stratified caste is told to do his job just like his daddy did or else..he never had the benefit of education which he could perhaps use in this task.

QED its the brahmins fault. and any case, iyengars are fairer than iyers.