Indian Filmmaker Plucks Musical Strings in Pakistan

#51 by harimau on December 8, 2006 5:39pm PT

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Your problem, taikonaut, is that your folks had bought into a load of bull from some mullah and are are now classified as lower than the Untouchables.

Whereas brahmins were Prime Ministers to Islamic sultans, you guys certainly were put to good use by the same sultans.

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I guess you are ignoring the situation on the ground. In modern day Pakistan, Muslims had (for centuries) all the land free and clear of any raja or maharaja. OTOH Brahmin ``prime minister`` used to survive as paltry banyas who used to count coins and run the retail shops.

Prime ministers! hahahah.

Ref taikonaut #50

[And that`s why mlecchas (whatever that means) rule Brahmanistic @r$$. Poor Brahmins were more than happy to bend over and be ``dewan`` (courtyard) so that every mleccha walks on Brahmin behind.]

Your problem, taikonaut, is that your folks had bought into a load of bull from some mullah and are are now classified as lower than the Untouchables.

Whereas brahmins were Prime Ministers to Islamic sultans, you guys certainly were put to good use by the same sultans. Some of you -- fortunately for you, it is not some of your ancestors otherwise you wouldn`t be here -- were neutered and put to use guarding the harem.

Yeah, I got my dog neutered too. So that ought to tell you where exactly you guys rank in the sultan`s opinion. You of course already know my opinion of you. And of course we all know the sultans` opinions about brahmins because we guys got hired as Prime Ministers and Advisers to the King.

Re: # 49 hariom

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Read the real history of Hindustan. You will understand why brahmins are the superior race and why you are all mlecchas.

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And that`s why mlecchas (whatever that means) rule Brahmanistic @r$$. Poor Brahmins were more than happy to bend over and be ``dewan`` (courtyard) so that every mleccha walks on Brahmin behind.

Ref taikonaut #48

[Your statements are like the supporters of Apartheid`s Botha telling Mandela that we have not only put you all blacks as the lowest of the low. We still have further lowest blacks who are destined to be slaves.

Man! no wonder Brahministic @r$$ has been ruled by every Tom, Harry, and even that Dick.]

You know, you guys have been harping about how you all escaped the caste system by ``voluntarily embracing`` Islam. The only embrace I have read about is where the victim is embraced prior to being bent over and buggered.

On the other hand, brahmins escaped this treatment at the hands of the Islamist thugs. Tipu Sultan`s Dewan was a brahmin.

Read the real history of Hindustan. You will understand why brahmins are the superior race and why you are all mlecchas.

#47 by harimau on December 6, 2006 5:06pm PT

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We Brahmins turned certain local inhabitants into Shudras, others into Untouchables and then folks like you into an even lower category called ``mlecchha``.

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Sadly this shows the true mentality of Brahministic mentality.

Your statements are like the supporters of Apartheid`s Botha telling Mandela that we have not only put you all blacks as the lowest of the low. We still have further lowest blacks who are destined to be slaves.

Man! no wonder Brahministic @r$$ has been ruled by every Tom, Harry, and even that Dick.

Ref taikonaut #46

[Oh Well Hindooi fundoois are quick to forget their past. That`s the quality Brahmins used to turn every local inhabitant a Shudra.]

This is as untrue as it gets.

We Brahmins turned certain local inhabitants into Shudras, others into Untouchables and then folks like you into an even lower category called ``mlecchha``.

Serves you right, in my opinion!

#45 by harimau on December 5, 2006 5:49pm PT

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Ref taikonaut #36

[....And yes Pakistanis should support the ``right to return`` for Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus.]

They already do! They do support, and in fact force, the return to Hindus and Sikhs ro Islam.

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Yeap. Hindooi fundoois bombed Golden Temple, and killed 1000s of Sikhs in 84. Mind you there was no partition excuse this time.

Oh Well Hindooi fundoois are quick to forget their past. That`s the quality Brahmins used to turn every local inhabitant a Shudra.

Ref taikonaut #36

[....And yes Pakistanis should support the ``right to return`` for Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus.]

They already do! They do support, and in fact force, the return to Hindus and Sikhs ro Islam.

Re: # 43
No question, they are really super. Incidentally have you heard Nathu Khan on the Sarangi. It`s pity fewer and fewer people are playing that instrument.

Here is a link , Nathu Khan playing Narayani
http://www.sawf.org/audio/narayani/nathukhan_narayani.ram

Re: # 41 and #42

Yes Warrier Ji, but I would take Shakti without the Jazz bit. I have seen Vikku perform with Zakir Ji a few times at the Symphony Space, and it just magical.

Jang Ji… nothing is better than that.

Re: # 39
I`m not indulging in semantics. Classical music even in the Western sense never meant old. In the western idiom it meant the style of music from Haydn to Beethoven. You may think it is old because some old fogey`s perform it, but it is not. It`s a living breathing tradition with changes taking place even today.

Raaga Malhar performed by X orchestra is only as much Malhar as some string band trying to play Eine Kliene Nachtmusik.

I`m not arguing about the complexity of a raaga vis a vis a simple scale. But again far too many pop/film musicians play just the scale or the notes on which a raag(a is necessary because in Sanskrit the ending consonant is duly stressed often, not just by poor Southies) is based.

Cheers

#40

Kulleee you need some Shakti I think. -)

#40 kuharee yar we had this college mess-workers party every saturday night with bhang pakhawaj, harmonium and ghungrus singing bhajans..we had this classmate from banares whos dad taught tabals join them..major blast.

Re: # 38

Speaking of which Jang ji, my Guruji tells me that laborers in his ancestral pind in the UP after a hard day’s work hire a Pakhawaj guy to perform, they get drunk and dance along..

Din din tete tete gheghe tete kate gadi dha kate dha ni dha

Have you ever seen the trio Zakir ji, Vinyakram on Ghatam… plus a violinist… it send shivers up your spine… a superb mixture of Carnatic and Hindustani.

Re: # 37 by swarrier on December 5, 2006 7:31am PT

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[Look DM why would someone argue on semantics? Classical Music of South Asia is unique in one particular way, i,e. it provides many templates (or Raags).]]]

I don`t think this is quite right. By the same token any music that is composed in a major or minor key in the West should be called classical music. After all scales and chord progressions are templates too aren`t they.

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SWarrier Ji, you too are now indulging in semantics. Classical simply means ancient, old etc. South Asian classical composers put together templates that are more complex than simply scales and key progression.

Raag Malhar is a template that vocalists, or orchestras can use to develop a performance. These Raags (for Southies it is Raagas) or templates are not associated with any composer.

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#38 Jang
i am intrigued by the mega-farmer support. can you expand on how exactly this support works?

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It is simple!

Poor people have pool their money on Mohallah level, pay the musicians, and listen to music.
Rich people pay money from their own pocket, invite musicians, and listen to music.

Both of these forms ``patronize`` artists aka musicians.

#36 by taikonaut

i am intrigued by the mega-farmer support. can you expand on how exactly this support works? i can tell you how the middle class supports music in india. a locality (muhalla, housing society or cultural etc) organizes a concert. invites the musicians and pays them fees to perform classical music such as khayals, drupad etc. the artists are invited to us and other places also. due to this, many artitst have 200 dates a year when they are performing.

IMO classical music allows improvisation in an extremely controlled manner, in a guru-shishya-gharana tradition. Real improvisation is a big step taken only after steeping in the tradition for years.

and no classical musician calls it ``south-asian`` classical, its hindustani or carnatic.

Re: # 36
[Look DM why would someone argue on semantics? Classical Music of South Asia is unique in one particular way, i,e. it provides many templates (or Raags). A composer then picks one of these templates that closely depicts the mood of a ``performance``. This performance may or may not accompany a vocalist. Just listen to Rag Hans Dhuni with a master of sitar, and marvel at the beauty and simplicity of the template. Still it is a template that a master can use to do whatever he wants to do with it. ]

I don`t think this is quite right. By the same token any music that is composed in a major or minor key in the West should be called classical music. After all scales and chord progressions are templates too aren`t they.

You can have a composition based on a raaga, it doesn`t make it classical. This is especially true of most Indian film or Indian orchestral music where the tempered scale is used.

Interesting spelling of Raaga Hamsadhwani . I`ve never seen it written so.