Reforming Pakistan’s Universities -- II

Mind if I say a word?
The problem actually lies within the fact that education provided in our universities is highly constricted- it is not an overall eductaion; students studying medicine study medicine ONLY, students pursuing a career in engineering study relevant subjects ONLY. Such a set-up does not create educated individuals- it produces career-minded mercenaries. Allow me elaborate- the prospectus of prestigious Brown Univeristy in USA states:
``... [ we encourage] learning beacususe it is intriguing,because it is new,because it is irrelevant, and because it represents the heights the human mind has reached...``
It is for this reason that students studying in American universtites MUST study courses other than their concentration- I personally know an aspiring eletrical engineer who studies English Lierature.
What a far cry from the all too business-like syallbuses taught here!! If only our universites provided liberal education... I belive it would solve everything...

firestarter #47, India started building the IIT system in the `50s not in the `80s. The first IIT came up in Kharagpur in 1950 (yes, that`s right). There are five ``old`` IITs: Kharagpur, Kanpur, Chennai, Powai and Delhi. A recent one has been established in Guwahati (`99 I think) and even more recently, Roorkee University has been incorporated into the IIT system. That makes seven IIT`s; not eight as you have mentioned. I am not aware of any other IIT`s.
Besides IIT`s, India has some very good to decent regional and state level engineering colleges e.g. Trichi, Suratkal, VJTI (Mumbai), Jadavpur (Calcutta) etc. There are some OK private engineering colleges as well.
Overall, I would say each year India graduates around 5000 competent students who can be productive to the economy. Of these, around 2000 have the capability of doing Ph.D. level research but most do not.

The most comprehensive, the most apt sysnopsis of the educational puddle. Dr Hoodbhoy, a rare breed indeed. Wish we had more scholars, as you.

Dear Mr. W Hamid....in my previous post i mentioned the abysmal effort of bringing back the pakistani`s in foreign universities. In UET a very learned Professor is called back from US. I do not want to mention the name but because of the politics in the Electrical Engineering Department he has not been allowed to teach there. Similarly, another professor has also left UET and he has joined FAST. The thing is that the idea of bringing pakistanis is very good and india did the same in 1980`s when it established the IIT`s, but its implementation is altogether wrong. HEC is giving a very high salary to these professors coming from abroad. So, when they want to teach in the university, the old professors with UK PhD`s and who didn`t do any research in their life gets jealous and they start lobbying. Therefore, i think that HEC should make sure that these professors do get to teach and do their respetive research freely.

As far as India is considered, there is no comparison w/ Pakistan. Instead of building hundreds of universities overnight, they established eight model universities the IIT`s. Graduates of IIT`s got jobs in the top companies all over the world. On the contrary, in Pakistan we have made 1 Kanal universities and each university has hired 1 PhD and they advertise on his/her behalf. What can you expect from this. You gave very impressive rankings of pakistani universities.I would like to remind you that Punjab University was once considered among top 20, but now its has lost its mark. If this situation prevails then the situation will get worse. Let`s not only hope for the good future but also work for it

I am personally a big fan of Hoodbhoy for his new thoughts in Islam and his general views about Pakistan but I could not find much agreeable in his articles in which he criticized HEC.
Because of my tight schedule I dont have much time to comment on each and every point he raised but right now I will comment on the following:

``One wishes it could be otherwise. It would be a major breakthrough if
Indian and Iranian teachers could be brought to Pakistan. Indians, in particular, would find it much easier to adapt to local ways and customs than others and also have smaller salary expectations. The huge pool of strong Indian candidates could be used to Pakistan’s advantage - it could pick the best teachers and researchers, and those most likely to make a positive impact on the system. In the present mood of rapprochement, it is hard to think of a more meaningful confidence building measure``.

I was really surprised to read that he could not find any ``quality`` Pakistani teachers teaching in foreign universities and even in the presence of ``Foreign Faculty Hiring Program`` he made his wish about bringing Iranian/Indian and in particular Indians to strengthen Pakistan higher education standard. Probably he was trying to be more ``enlightened`` as has been the case in some elite sections of our society nowadays that in every aspect of life they compare Pakistan with India and portray India and Indians as the superpower, whether its film industry, music, IT, language problems or even culture.

I am in no way against of comparing Pakistan with India in different aspects or praising what India has achieved but we have not. But my point is this that we should not present Pakistan as a complete failure and India as complete success while comparing the two. As in this case, Hoodbhoy has criticized HEC so much that one starts thinking that probably HEC is the main culprit of low standard not only in higher education but in every part of life and if HEC is kept allowed working in Pakistan then God forbid the higher education system will fall to the ground. The problem I guess lies in making the issues generalized.
The example of Hoodbhoy`s generalization is this that ``Pakistan does not have a single ``Real`` university``.

I guess this is somewhat exaggerated and also heartrending that if a person like Hoodbhoy says this. Asia Week had listed GIK at 23rd, NUST at 20th and SZABIST on 32nd ranks in Asian Best Universities of 2000 in the category of Science and technology. I think Asia Week ranks only ``Real`` Universities of Asia not fake universities.

Hoodbhoy also mentioned India like having the world’s best standard of education and wished to have Indian talent in Pakistan so that they can save our education system from drowning. I have no doubt that India has some very good institutes so does Pakistan but again we should not generalize while making our case against someone/thing. It is really sad and it even destroys the credibility of the writer as well.

I personally have lived and worked in Arab Emirates and Saudi Arab (KSA) and have a big circle of Indian friends. I also work for an organization (NGO) which is working in education sector not only in Pakistan but in India also and I have more hands on knowledge of indian education system. Its not uncommon in UAE and KSA that u will hear about the fake degrees of Indian workers, especially from Hyderabad. Even Saudis who need a degree for their promotions, ask Indians or even go to Indian Heyderabad to ``buy`` a university degree. This is especially common in engineering. I asked some of my friends and relatives who live in India to send me info about this business of fake institutions and degrees. I also collected some of the news in this regard which I have presented at the end of my email. I hope members of this group will find it interesting.

I was thinking if God forbid HEC accepts Hoodbhoy`s recommendations of bringing Indian students/teachers to Pakistan then how HEC or Hoodbhoy is going to check or scrutinize the degrees of Indians who even have been successful in getting H-1B visas in USA on their fake degrees (see the news collections below). In KSA people used to say that if you want an engineering degree then go to BAQALA (Arabic of a shop) in Hara (a place in Riyadh) and buy it from there.

Hhodbhoy was also very quick in giving the examples of Jawaharlal Nehru University, and the Indian Institute of Technology, in Delhi and their ``polite`` and ``cultured`` students by saying
``Angry words are exchanged and polemics are issued against the other, but no heads are bashed``.

but he failed to looked at the dismal condition of vast numbers of other institutes of India where basing the heads is regarded as very common.. Some of the examples I have present below under the heading of ``Students Politics in India``. This generalization again shows Hoodbhoy`s selecting some good samples to reinforce his argument and making it universal but forget the opposites.

In the end, I would like to say that Pakistan has some good things as well as bad and unsatisfactory things (like in education) and this phenomenon is universal ``including`` India. But it gives a real pain if someone presents just a gloomy picture of Pakistan and contrary to that portrays India as superpower. Usually journalists used to do it just to earn some money but if our well informed Professor does the same then nobody would have the credibility of what they say or write.

Now see the other part of the picture of ``High`` standard of Indian education and read the following: (keep also in mind the fake degrees issue in Pakistan published in the media recently)

Fake Universities and Degrees in India :

1.Employment consultants take advantage of the well-meaning visa applicants as the latter, mostly unqualified, are funneled into the US by middlemen who help them with fake academic degrees and pad their resumes in order to secure the H-1B visas. These shady recruiters in India take several thousand dollars from the ``unqualified dreamer`` to provide him with some ``hurry-up`` computer training and an H-1B visa.
(Times of India 11 April 2001)
2. Balendu Shekha Tiwari, who claims to be a classmate of Laloo Prasad Yadav from his Patna University days, was arrested for his involvement in fake certificate scam. The police team was in Ranchi, following the arrest of two professors from RN Jhunjhunwala College, who were provided fake PhD and DLit.
Professors Indra Bahadur Singh and SS Naikwadi who were given the DLit and PhD certificates by Tiwari were accompanied by police to Ranchi. According to the police, Tiwari has confessed that he provided fake certificates to the professors.
(Mid Day.com, Dec 30, 2003)
3. Police raided the Institute of Paramedical Studies and Charitable Trust from where tthe fake doctors had obtained the degrees. Having no formal medical qualifications, these suspects had been prescribing allopathic medicines for the last so many years, playing with the lives of innocent people. There are about 40,000 such fake doctors in Delhi.
(The Tribune September 7, 2003)
4. Around 1,000 candidates selected as ETT teachers have been found to possess fake B.Ed degrees. The sources said that the maximum number of fake degrees detected in probe were from the universities and institutions based in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Madhya Pradesh. Maximum number of fake degrees were found to be allegedly issued by the Bharatiya Shiksha Parishad and Gandhi Hindi Vidhya Peeth both based in Uttar Pradesh and Maghad University of Madhya Pradesh.
The sources said that certain officials of the Maghad University were also alleged to be involved in the issuing of fake degrees. They used to send fake verifications of the degrees issued with their connivance.
(The Tribune January 18, 2003)
5. The local police today busted a fake degree racket by arresting two women and a kingpin of the gang from an institute running in Mota Singh Market here. A large number of fake degrees were seized from the gang. According to the police, the institute had been supplying degrees for past about two decades
The accused allegedly sold a fake degree for Rs 40,000 to Rs 80,000. They had contacts with officials of more than 20 universities.
(The Tribune October 3, 2003)
6. Recently, seven fake degree cases were found in North Maharashtra University in Jalgaon. ``At that time, a court directed the state government to find out if there were more such cases,`` informs Sawant. ``We asked universities to check, but not much came out of that. But this matter needs immediate attention.``
(Times of India Dec 2004)
7. The medical association demanded immediate action against fake medical colleges selling fake degrees in New Delhi, and a mass public awareness campaign against quacks to be started by the government at the earliest.
(Express India Oct 3, 2003)
8. It just requires a fake certificate to get a job in top public sector undertakings like National Thermal Power Corporation (NTPC), State Trading Corporation (STC), Mahanagar Telephone Nigam Limited (MTNL), Punjab National Bank or Gas Authority of India Ltd (GAIL). Chances are if you get caught by an agency and convicted by court, another company will readily employ you.

GAIL chief manager S B Baruah just got unlucky when he was caught by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) for submitting a fake certificate in 1992 to GAIL for the job of senior deputy manager in 1992.
Baruah had submitted a fake Chartered Accountant (CA) degree showing that he had passed out from the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India in 1978 and his role number was 9838.
(Mid Day.com Sep 26, 2003)
9. Has anyone realised the damage being done to our human resources by allowing students to be cheated by unscrupulous foreign universities which have opened offshore campuses in India, asks D.S. Cheema.
(The Tribune, May 24, 2003)
The higher education system as reported by Swaminandhan (1994), is suffering from several weaknesses in the form of increase in demand, proliferation of substandard institution, dilution in quality and standard, failure to maintain academic calender, out-dated curriculum, disparities in the quality of education, inadequate resources and lack of adequate support for research, and out-dated management system.
The rapid unplanned flooding of higher education engendering complicated situations is one of the reason for indiscipline among students. Universities and colleges are viewed largely as public parks or political dens where the students emerge as pressure groups.
(Dr. G.Q. Sheikh, Feb 2001)

Students Poilitics in India:

Twenty-two students of Tiptur-based Kalpatharu Institute of Technology have been admitted to various hospitals in the City for treatment of head injuries, which they had suffered during a clash between students from northern and southern states.

Trouble fomented around 9 am on Friday when a group of students barged into the classrooms, dragged about 50 North Indian students out and assaulted them with wickets and iron rods.

The assault was in retaliation to an attack on a South Indian student on November 28. According to Mr G R Vijayaswamy, Principal of the Institute, ``It all started in the hostel mess when one of the students was assaulted for a trivial reason.
(Deccan Herald, Dec 07, 2003)
At least half a dozen students and the officer in charge of the University police station were injured in a clash between the police and students belonging to the AIDSO on the B R A Bihar University campus here.
(Times News Network, Sep 04, 2002)
Activists of the Khalsa College Students Union (KCSU) and the Chandigarh Students Union (CSU) had clashed and the police had to resort to a lathi charge at SGGS Khalsa College, Sector 26.
(Chandigarh Tribune, Sep 10, 2003)
Regards

W Hamid
NC, USA

Let me start by saying that it was a pleasure reading both the articles by Dr. Hoodbhoy. I am a very recent product of this system and that is why I think my opinion merits some weight.

For a country to progress in science and technology, science has to go conjointly with everyday lives of people. It has to impregnate in each aspect of society. I am afraid that is not the case in Pakistan. A society where people feel more comfortable believing that divine intervention (Peers/Jinns/Ghostly Images etc) will help them more than science can never progress. If you talk to Pakistani students (even the ones doing PhDs from very elite universities in US), you will be amazed to hear how much they can go in criticizing scientific process. People have a general antagonism against science, and that is the most disturbing thing. You will often hear people making very slanderous remarks e.g. ``science has often failed and has its limits, it can not provide answers to everything``. I am myself a PhD student, and having said that, it behoves on me to respect the scientific process more than anything.

And then there are people who believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theory on free masons, conspiracy theory on evolution, conspiracy theory on zionists, conspiracy theory on indians, you name it and we have it.

Then we have false heros. That is understandable for a country where heros are in short supply. No one is taught about the contributions of Dr. Abdul Salam. People feel more comfortable in mocking his religious beliefs than reading about him. In comparison, even after the nuclear imbroglio, you will still find many ardent supporters of A. Q. Khan.

I believe the most important thing that Dr. Ata and company should do is to make sure that our youth develops a habit of book reading. I feel that is the most important area which no one is talking about. Without this, we will just create a generation of bigots than real philosophers/scientists.

After whatever general Zia has done, infusing rationality in mainstream Pakistani society is going to be very tough.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/education/education.htm#1

interresting read in dawn...

I read IsaDaudpota`s artciles on HEC, and it is a shame that some of the department heads and vice-chancellors have resorted to sub-standard ph.d.s given out by pakistani affiliates of distance education institutes in england and US. How can people with such dishonesty be responsible for and inspire confidence in higher education ? I am surprised Musharraf can`t find a dozen good honest people to run this setup.

I went through the HEC pakistan website, and after reading hoodboy`s and isadaudpota`s articles, I feel there is an undue focus on ph.d. degrees in pakistan. Why ?? The progression from masters level to ph.d. level should be based on inherent academic interests and not monetary based. While it is OK to give stipend to do your ph.d. students(and it should be based on some qualifying examination), issuing Rs.60000 for every paper pbulished in foriegn journals is not beneficial and will only breed dishonesty. There are enough foriegn journals that are of substandard quality and publishing in those is not useful at all. On the otherhand, the HEC should list out good journals in each field of science, engineering, literature, social sciences, medicine etc. and reward publication in those journals. Also, a post-doctoral experience in a foriegn university/lab should also be rewarded. Research should be encouraged by identifying research areas and funding them. Publications are an outcome of research, and have no value otherwise. Also pakistan should slowly start building civilian national research centers and encourage interaction between them and the universities. And also setup a national center for journals or some thing of that sort so that people have access to world journals atleast in one place.

But even with these, what are the employment avenues available for ph.d.s in pakistan ?? If there is no indstry requirement for these skills and thinking, and if there are not enough universities to hire them, what will happen to these huge number of sub-standard unemployed ph.d.s ?? What is the use of phDs which nobody values ?
Without thinking through these, short term quick-fixes will only aggravate the problems. In almost all cases, universities grow with time and dedication, and it would be wise for pakistan to follow that model.

As an aside, I also went to UGC, India`s website, and saw the pics of Nehru and Dr.Radhakrishnan in the UGC meetings. I think we Indians have been very lucky to have such reupted and honest, dedicated leadership. Otherwise imagine a UGC established under laloo`s leadership ?? Thank god, we are spared.

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Firestarter! may be you are talking about Sabieh Anwar. Sabieh did his PhD (DPhil) from Oxford while doing research on world`s first liquid state computers. And what I know is that he is simple a genius and he proved it throughout his educational/research career topping the boards and getting honors at UET.


I think, it will be better if we can ask our friends to get up and convey our concern to relevant people. Sending letters to HEC chairman and directors, Governor Punjab (wonder if he reads mails), VC (same a governor) and publishing our comments in The News and Dawn may cause concerned people to get up and look into the matter to de-politicize EE@UET.

Dear Charlie, i totally agree with you that we should have a strong Alumni. UET is the only institute that caters the rural as well as the urban population. Unfortunately, politics is going to ruin its repute. When i was in final year i was taught 2 subjects by teachers who are currently doing their MSc. I mean this is not fair the final year should be taught by Professors not by lecturers. Dr. Noor is trying really hard to uplift this institute but i do not think that he can do it all on his own. Recently, an ex-uetian came back from Oxford University. He has done his PhD in Quantum Computing and he wanted to teach one course of Quantum Computing free of cost. But the bully azhar shah and his stupid crew said that we do not want any of this bullshit. How unfortunate can we get, there are people who want to serve pakistan but the dayum! mafia is causing hindrances.

re: another stupid article from our Paki friend
One wonders if any history is taught in Pakistani schools!
Read the following para from an article in a Paki newspaper Opinion section (a reputed one at that) titled: No divine vengeance:
Url: http://www.dawn.com/2005/01/07/op.htm
``Hinduism, which was later introduced in India by Aryans after occupying that country in sixth century B.C., the period when the preachings of Buddha, Zoroaster and Pythagoras, had gained sufficient currency in the Middle East and Central Asia, rests on the dogma of `Awa-Gawan` or endless arrivals and departures of soul, i.e. an interminable cycle of births and rebirths till the attainment of `mukti` or salvation. ``

What is wrong with the above paragraph?
The author is saying that Aryans brought Hinduism to India after Buddhism had already been well established in India. In other words, Buddhism predates Hindusims, forgetting easily that Buddha himself was a Hindu.
This is the kind of nonsense being published in reputed Paki newspapers.

This is from a website:
http://www.buddhanet.net/bud_lt02.htm

(In 623 B.C. on a full-moon day of May,Vasanta-tide, when in India the trees were laden with leaf, flower, and fruit, and man, bird, and beast were in joyous mood, Queen Mahâmâyâ was travelling in state from Kapilavatthu to Devadaha, her parental home, according to the custom of the times, to give birth to her child. But that was not to be, for halfway between the two cities, in the beautiful Lumbini Grove, under the shade of a flowering Sal tree, she brought forth a son.)
So, even the period of birth mentioned in that article is wrong. In the 6th century BC, Buddha was born. His teachings did not spread beyond the shores of India in his own life time but many centuries later.
Anyway, a good newspaper would scrutinise the details and edit out such trash. Perhaps the people of Pak are so biased they do not care to know if Buddhism preceded or succeeded Hindusim. After all, the history there starts with invasion of Md Qasim.
Sridhar

For the benefit of those interested in indian educational system.. there is a detailed collection here
http://iqra-careers.com/
see the career and counseling section. This appears to be inspired by a number of indian muslim educationalists (from hyderabad, india) for the benefit of students. Also, Take a look a their advisory board.. interesting..

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Dear Firestarter! Being a former UETian and coming from Electrical department, I was really shocked to know that Azhar Shah was made the chairman of department. Dr Ashraf Chughtai was much better choice than this idiot. But Azhar Shah approached governor Punjab to be appointed Chairman and God knows how he trapped our Retired Army General Vice Chancellor.

Due to the same politics, Dr Ashraf Iqbal left UET and joined LUMS as chairman of CS department. Dr Jahangir left UET. And Even Dr Shahid Bokhari, only Pakistani researcher to be included in the list highly cited researchers during last 20 years (consult ISI highly Cited website), has been looking a bit disappointed for his efforts. Dr Bokhari left NASA in 1981 and returned to Pakistan sacrificing whole of his career and these dirty politicians entering the campuses are causing hurdles for such dedicated people.
And then hoodbhoy says, we should allow poitics over the campus.

I wish we UETians had a strong Alumni association who could approach higher authorities and ask them to be fair while appoitnting professors on top positions.

Atleast, I am going to forward my concern to HEC chairman on chairman@hec.gov.pk and complaints@hec.gov.pk

re: poor quality of publications from Pak
When one reads an article like the one whose Url is listed below, one understands why education in Pak is languishing.
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=66028
In this article, the author is actually arguing that the name India was usurped by India and that muslims of the subcontinent (and by the argument, Pakistan) are the true inheritors of this name!
He makes a lot of contorted arguments to prove his point. I do not know if the author is a Paki or an Indian muslim but the point is: this kind of nonsense gets published. Are the articles ever reviewed for quality and authenticity before being published?
Sridhar