A Failed Education

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Hmmm, u asking for the solution who are been taught by the process you have explained,
they don`t even care, as they never got to learn that, what difference does it make, they do make fun of it, every other student make of that book of pakistan studies, in which they ask the pupil to learn 14 ponts of quad-e-azam but none of the teachers care to actually make them understand whats the idea, and why the great quaid actually gave those points, does any one of you know .. me neither.. i even dont remember the 14 points even after learning for 5 years (from class 8-12). I was never able to recite them in one go, because I cant ratofy anything.

Only one solution this, each school should be standardize with the education.everyone should take same education. and govt. school should be given to they mohallah they are in. they run them with a given standard (changing that standard shuould be easy) there can be a consortium to solve the issues (plz no anghota chaaps in ministry of education) I wud suggest government tht before spending money on IT(which is again a bullshit by some selfish ppl who played with govt. to make money ) and spent of incrasing the level of education of universities, some should first be spent on the school systems, and standardizing the schooling system, I dont see a reason for a person not teaching in a school if he will be given good renumeration package as govt is paying for universitites (that is necessary too but we need a base first) evrything stands on base, if the base is weak one can never have good fruit.
I hope I am clear.
hope to be listened

YOU HAVE HIT THE HEAD ON THE NAIL!

Bravo Sarwar Saheb!!! #4 ,5 and 182,183:--Good posts.

I wish some had your power of discernment.

Rule of Law versus Rule of Man and Cults.

This is the main issue. Democracy versus Dictatorship.
Army versus Civilian Rule.
Secularism versus Islamism/Hinduism.
Peaceful Co-existence versus Thousand years of war till qayamat.

How can we stop this madness!!!!! Can we bring things back to decency and civility????
Is there any hope for Pakistan???

Romair #163

{{1. What if regardless of how much proof is provided, Indians are completely brainwashed to an extent that they are unwilling to accept the proof? What can one do then?}}

(a) My point seems to have eluded you. An argument (including purported ‘proof’) stands or falls on its own merits. The ultimate determination of whether it is valid depends only on its objective content. It does not depend on who makes it (and her perceived past track-record of making honest and convincing arguments), or who is made to listen to it (and his perceived past record of following and accepting sound arguments).

Claiming that your audience is brainwashed misses the point and sounds like a weak excuse. Those who are not brainwashed would be able to scrutinize your claims and decide to what extent they are well-founded. They may be able to provide corroborating evidence. They may even be able to make a solider case to convince the alleged ‘brainwashed’ ones. Conversely, they may be able to show you just exactly where your ‘proof’ goes astray, where your account departs from reality.

(b) If you believe that your audience is brainwashed to reject your arguments, you can try to establish that this is the case. Brainwashing, indoctrination is not a particularly mysterious process. Consciously or unconsciously, overtly or subtly, in greater or lesser degree, it may be carried out by every nation and social group, beginning in early infancy. It is the foundation of various cults and most dogmatic religions. More intense brainwashing of adults in order to induce esprit de corps and unit cohesion is a key ingredient of much armed forces training as well as re-education camps. At the level of entire populations, there is the method of mass terror and ceaseless blaring agitprop to induce worship of the Race and the Supreme Leader.

You are welcome to substantiate the case that Indians at large are unreceptive to your arguments because they have been subjected to some form of brainwashing, by documenting the nature, intensity, and duration of the alleged brainwashing. Merely repeating your dubious bald assertions won’t do. Something on the lines of the SDPI report, complete with copious references (see my #140) would be welcome. You could even turn it into yet another Chowk article. I’m sure that it will be well-received if you provide solid evidence.

(c) You might also want to consider the possibility that, as a military veteran, you yourself have undergone severe brainwashing; and consequently your disconnect from reality is greater than that of your audience. As far as I am concerned, that gives a far simpler explanation – in the Ockham’s Razor sense - for the observed fact that your ‘proofs’ carry such little weight with the Indians.

((2. Isn`t it better to not make false statements to begin with?}}

Of course. May I suggest that truthfulness, like charity, ought to begin at home?

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re: post 149-great post HE!
sadly most ppl on here are islam haters and pakistan haters who will only be happy when pakistani society is basically totally mentally westernised.

Allah says in the koran:

``They [the Jews and Christians] will never be pleased with you until you become like them``

good article pasted arjun. i agree with it totally--what is needed is a revamp of the system from the primary UP and to produce our own education system suited to our own society with its own traditions.
For science education we could do worse than consult Richard Feynman`s theories on education.
For the overall system i would advise the govt. of pakistan to contact Shaykh Hamza Yusuf--an American convert and one-time advisor to the Bush govt. on islam--and use him as a consultant on how to reform our education system. Therein lies success and a system for creating unique individuals! :-)

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quote

`` I think modern school is a negative experience. I believe you can learn more out of school than in it. There is now a universal education system, whether you are in an Arab country, China or somewhere else. This universal education is only going to vary according to the political atmosphere of the given country. For example, in Iraq, the indoctrination is probably more obvious whereas in the US it is just more subtle. School is an artificial construct to socialize individuals into a group identity. The whole idea of a ``school of fish`` is that everyone swims together whereas traditional Islamic education was completely individualized. What it did
was give people all those tools (in the West called ``liberal arts``) such as grammar, rhetoric, and logic, through which people could actually think and use their brains.

In public high schools, you are not given tools, you are given information and data. In fact, a metaphor that is used in education today is that you`re basically a hard drive that needs to be written with a given software. You will then fulfill whatever are the social needs of the society. Schooling today is designed only to matriculate people into the logic of the system itself. Then people end up in meaningless jobs doing meaningless work, and never really think about what type of society they`re contributing to.
--Shaykh Hamza Yusuf

arjun-m#175
``India’s annual average per capita income is $470 but the National Council of Applied Economic Research ``estimates that the number of people living in households that earn at least $1,800 annually - considered the minimum for middle-income families - has increased 17% in just the past three years, to more than 700 million.`` At $1,800 per annum, Indian families can ``purchase motorbikes, televisions and refrigerators.``

Things dont add up. If 700 million people are making even $1800 each (not at least 1800) India`s per capita income will be more than $470 even if the rest of the population was earning zero dollars. Unless, the NCAER estimates realte to family income or purchasing power parity.

But I agree that India is on the march, and will continue onwards if the chaddiwallahs can be kept in check.

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