Lal Masjid: Lessons Learnt
Muhammad sadiq July 26, 2007
#227 Posted by HP on August 1, 2007 9:30:45 pm
Now the reality check time.
I posted this on “Lal Masjid: Lessons Learnt� thread
http://www.chowk.com/interacts/12388/1/0/48#333851
“I would like to emphasis that Benazir, if made PM of Pakistan, will not able to control the islamist without the army’s help and army’s help to her would not be forthcoming due to several historical reasons. Which to me suggests that she will be the one who would seek the US help inside Pakistan I think she has agreed to be another Malaiki in Pakistan.�
This above represent the only scenario where the US army would enter Pakistan. And I think this situation would occur in Pakistan within six months of Benazir taking over Pakistan. The Pak army will not cooperate with Benazir no matter how hard she tries and despite ironclad guarantees from the US for the Pak army support. Even if she appoints Asif Zardari as the Chief of the Army., she will not get the cooperation from the Pak army That is the nature of the Pak army.
Btw, At that time all the Islamist here will support the Army a 100%. wanna Bet?
I posted this on “Lal Masjid: Lessons Learnt� thread
http://www.chowk.com/interacts/12388/1/0/48#333851
“I would like to emphasis that Benazir, if made PM of Pakistan, will not able to control the islamist without the army’s help and army’s help to her would not be forthcoming due to several historical reasons. Which to me suggests that she will be the one who would seek the US help inside Pakistan I think she has agreed to be another Malaiki in Pakistan.�
This above represent the only scenario where the US army would enter Pakistan. And I think this situation would occur in Pakistan within six months of Benazir taking over Pakistan. The Pak army will not cooperate with Benazir no matter how hard she tries and despite ironclad guarantees from the US for the Pak army support. Even if she appoints Asif Zardari as the Chief of the Army., she will not get the cooperation from the Pak army That is the nature of the Pak army.
Btw, At that time all the Islamist here will support the Army a 100%. wanna Bet?
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#226 Posted by zeemax on July 31, 2007 6:38:17 am
Hey dawa-i-dil,
Not to rub salt in your wounds ... but have you seen this (dated 27th July)?
LoL ... Cheerleaders of Quetta Football Team !!!
Not to rub salt in your wounds ... but have you seen this (dated 27th July)?
LoL ... Cheerleaders of Quetta Football Team !!!
#225 Posted by arjun2 on July 31, 2007 6:03:40 am
uh-oh...ajeya is going to get his dhoti in a knot...(isn't a dhoti pretty much already in a knot anyway?)
Birthday Bashes That Take the Cake
For Parents in India, a Chance to Display Generosity, Affluence
By Emily Wax
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, July 31, 2007; Page A01
NEW DELHI -- Inside the chandeliered party hall of an upscale hotel, with its canopies of balloons and sparkly lights, three video cameramen and two photographers jostled like paparazzi to get a glimpse of the guest of honor.
Waiters in black tie waded through the crowd, serving endless silver trays of chicken tikka kebabs, grilled shrimp and samosas. Several DJs spun fast-tempo Punjabi pop that pulsated from refrigerator-size speakers. There were cocktails for the adults, and for the kids, cotton candy.
This was, after all, a birthday party for a 2-year-old -- little curly-haired Taisa Arora, to be specific. On a recent Saturday night, she wore her Strawberry Shortcake Mary Janes and a princess-like sequined outfit, and yawned as her grandmother cradled her amid the excitement of 125 guests, most arriving after 10 p.m. and only some of them children.
In India, weddings have long been extravagant celebrations of a lifetime, costing families huge sums. But with prosperity growing in urban India, more and more parents are spending exorbitant amounts on children's birthday parties -- sometimes in excess of $4,000 a bash.
"The birthday party is the new wedding in India, and the sky is the limit," said Rakesh Gupta, a party planner who has seen his business double in the past few years. "It's a serious industry now, and people want to spend lavishly and outdo each other. People in India don't like to save. They want to enjoy life and live for today after so many years of poverty and struggle."
For India's wealthier classes, birthday parties are a chance to network with business colleagues and to reunite relatives, bringing together overworked families from cities around the country. Perhaps most important, the parties are a source of pride for Indians looking to demonstrate their new wealth, as parents try to impress one another with opulent soirees.
The Indian economy has enjoyed record growth rates of 8 percent to 9 percent during the past three years, in part because the once-socialist country has opened its markets globally. The country has developed a large service industry, with the technology, pharmaceutical and biotechnology sectors serving international markets. Although India has the largest number of poor people struggling to survive on $1 a day, its middle class has more than tripled in the past two decades, according to the World Bank.
In cities, swanky stores hawk shiny bathroom fixtures and $2,000 Jacuzzis, and television ads show smiling Indian housewives buying new washing machines and moving into condo complexes.
When it comes to birthday parties, the change has been striking. Gone are the days of the quiet birthday visit with grandparents to a Hindu temple and a simple box of Indian sweets. Now there's the frazzled party planner to hire, invitations with calligraphy to buy, elephant and camel rides to plan, a sports or cartoon theme to pick out, and a moon bounce to choose.
Birthday Bashes That Take the Cake
For Parents in India, a Chance to Display Generosity, Affluence
By Emily Wax
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, July 31, 2007; Page A01
NEW DELHI -- Inside the chandeliered party hall of an upscale hotel, with its canopies of balloons and sparkly lights, three video cameramen and two photographers jostled like paparazzi to get a glimpse of the guest of honor.
Waiters in black tie waded through the crowd, serving endless silver trays of chicken tikka kebabs, grilled shrimp and samosas. Several DJs spun fast-tempo Punjabi pop that pulsated from refrigerator-size speakers. There were cocktails for the adults, and for the kids, cotton candy.
This was, after all, a birthday party for a 2-year-old -- little curly-haired Taisa Arora, to be specific. On a recent Saturday night, she wore her Strawberry Shortcake Mary Janes and a princess-like sequined outfit, and yawned as her grandmother cradled her amid the excitement of 125 guests, most arriving after 10 p.m. and only some of them children.
In India, weddings have long been extravagant celebrations of a lifetime, costing families huge sums. But with prosperity growing in urban India, more and more parents are spending exorbitant amounts on children's birthday parties -- sometimes in excess of $4,000 a bash.
"The birthday party is the new wedding in India, and the sky is the limit," said Rakesh Gupta, a party planner who has seen his business double in the past few years. "It's a serious industry now, and people want to spend lavishly and outdo each other. People in India don't like to save. They want to enjoy life and live for today after so many years of poverty and struggle."
For India's wealthier classes, birthday parties are a chance to network with business colleagues and to reunite relatives, bringing together overworked families from cities around the country. Perhaps most important, the parties are a source of pride for Indians looking to demonstrate their new wealth, as parents try to impress one another with opulent soirees.
The Indian economy has enjoyed record growth rates of 8 percent to 9 percent during the past three years, in part because the once-socialist country has opened its markets globally. The country has developed a large service industry, with the technology, pharmaceutical and biotechnology sectors serving international markets. Although India has the largest number of poor people struggling to survive on $1 a day, its middle class has more than tripled in the past two decades, according to the World Bank.
In cities, swanky stores hawk shiny bathroom fixtures and $2,000 Jacuzzis, and television ads show smiling Indian housewives buying new washing machines and moving into condo complexes.
When it comes to birthday parties, the change has been striking. Gone are the days of the quiet birthday visit with grandparents to a Hindu temple and a simple box of Indian sweets. Now there's the frazzled party planner to hire, invitations with calligraphy to buy, elephant and camel rides to plan, a sports or cartoon theme to pick out, and a moon bounce to choose.
#224 Posted by dawa-i-dil on July 31, 2007 4:17:44 am
in the early days...he started to change the religious axis of pakistan....
his first picture was..in front of PM house with small dog in his hand....to show people he is very moderate....
he lived in Turkey..so he fisrt declared that his most beloved personality is Kamal Attaturk...so..he wanted to transform pakistan into Turkey..and considered himself as Attaturk of Pakistan....
but thanks god...the religious masses of pakistan were so strong that...despite of his 8 years ..efforts..he could not change the pakistan into secular Turkey..and also infleunced the Army to be like Turkish Natinal Army..but he also failed in this regard...
though ..in these efforts..he made enormous losses to whole Pakistan idelogical axis..with a lot of anarchy and suicide bombings...and reactionary efforts of Lal Masjid..etc....
On Basant ..in 6 years..full time ...Baighairti...Shabab-o-Kabab mehfils..mujras..and other things...he himself was in Lahore on basant nights for 6 years..when atlast Supreme court put a complete ban on Basant....
He also tried to secularize the Army by regular basis musicaol concerts in every garrison and Abrar ..and other were invited on night dinners...there..still today....while Zia ul haq..never allowed that...
In his foolish thinking that iNdia will compromise on Kashmir..he turned whole pakistan media into indian culture..Meera going there..there singers and actors..and film stars coming here....but the Indians shown him boots on Kashmir issue..no dialogue at all...
he ordered the music classes in Punjab university..although students protested against that..but his nasha of enlightened moderation was overwhelming him...
PTV ..and other private channels are so much that sometimes they beat even indian channels in nudity and baighairti ..but no check from government at all....
these all are the fruits of this Dictator era...
his first picture was..in front of PM house with small dog in his hand....to show people he is very moderate....
he lived in Turkey..so he fisrt declared that his most beloved personality is Kamal Attaturk...so..he wanted to transform pakistan into Turkey..and considered himself as Attaturk of Pakistan....
but thanks god...the religious masses of pakistan were so strong that...despite of his 8 years ..efforts..he could not change the pakistan into secular Turkey..and also infleunced the Army to be like Turkish Natinal Army..but he also failed in this regard...
though ..in these efforts..he made enormous losses to whole Pakistan idelogical axis..with a lot of anarchy and suicide bombings...and reactionary efforts of Lal Masjid..etc....
On Basant ..in 6 years..full time ...Baighairti...Shabab-o-Kabab mehfils..mujras..and other things...he himself was in Lahore on basant nights for 6 years..when atlast Supreme court put a complete ban on Basant....
He also tried to secularize the Army by regular basis musicaol concerts in every garrison and Abrar ..and other were invited on night dinners...there..still today....while Zia ul haq..never allowed that...
In his foolish thinking that iNdia will compromise on Kashmir..he turned whole pakistan media into indian culture..Meera going there..there singers and actors..and film stars coming here....but the Indians shown him boots on Kashmir issue..no dialogue at all...
he ordered the music classes in Punjab university..although students protested against that..but his nasha of enlightened moderation was overwhelming him...
PTV ..and other private channels are so much that sometimes they beat even indian channels in nudity and baighairti ..but no check from government at all....
these all are the fruits of this Dictator era...
#223 Posted by dawa-i-dil on July 31, 2007 4:17:06 am
These bloody .....broke the country...made pakistan..and heroin state..gave waters of 3 rivers to pakistan....and atlast..made the whole country ..in the burning fire of suicide attacks.....
these lanti...harami..generals ..consider themselves above every law..and rule and regulations.....
they have created a state within a state in pakistan....
there budget is never presented in National Assembly or Senate.....the most highest bodies of pakistan....
Nobody knows where the 60% of GDP go......
Minerva...come and look at he castle or palace of Lahore Corp Commander in Defence area...at night...1000's of bulbs glow..on his palace..who is he ...a soldier ..whose job is to defend country..but these baighairat kuttai....looted the money for thier own luxuries....
go and see ..how these Baighairat generals go in thier precious cars to have golf match in evening.....like they have conquered Kashmir.....
go and see..how these bloody general's wives...go to Cavalary..and Liberty market.. ...for shopping in offical cars....like they are queens of pakistan...bah.... lanti
in same Lahore..people have not pure water to drink..the patients are dying as they have no medicine..and these harami generals are enjoying the Pakistan money for thier badmashi...drunkards kuttai ........
for 60 years...they have made pakistan...the most corrupt...and beggar country....of the world...
these baighairat generals... ...DHA princes..and land mafia generals..are now...on the way..to eat whole Gwadar lands..in thier greed.....
These lanti generals ..consider themselves as very superior ...and call us " bloody civilians" ..lanti na ho tau......
what they have given to pakistan in 60 years..except..the kicking off the elected govermnets of 150 millions...or gallows to elected PM ..etc....
in my eyes..the only solution is...to have gallows...be constructed in Islamabad Abpara Chowk..bring all these baighairat generals ..to that..place..and sentence them to death..in front of all nation.....thats the only solution left...if we want to get rid of this cancer...
these lanti...harami..generals ..consider themselves above every law..and rule and regulations.....
they have created a state within a state in pakistan....
there budget is never presented in National Assembly or Senate.....the most highest bodies of pakistan....
Nobody knows where the 60% of GDP go......
Minerva...come and look at he castle or palace of Lahore Corp Commander in Defence area...at night...1000's of bulbs glow..on his palace..who is he ...a soldier ..whose job is to defend country..but these baighairat kuttai....looted the money for thier own luxuries....
go and see ..how these Baighairat generals go in thier precious cars to have golf match in evening.....like they have conquered Kashmir.....
go and see..how these bloody general's wives...go to Cavalary..and Liberty market.. ...for shopping in offical cars....like they are queens of pakistan...bah.... lanti
in same Lahore..people have not pure water to drink..the patients are dying as they have no medicine..and these harami generals are enjoying the Pakistan money for thier badmashi...drunkards kuttai ........
for 60 years...they have made pakistan...the most corrupt...and beggar country....of the world...
these baighairat generals... ...DHA princes..and land mafia generals..are now...on the way..to eat whole Gwadar lands..in thier greed.....
These lanti generals ..consider themselves as very superior ...and call us " bloody civilians" ..lanti na ho tau......
what they have given to pakistan in 60 years..except..the kicking off the elected govermnets of 150 millions...or gallows to elected PM ..etc....
in my eyes..the only solution is...to have gallows...be constructed in Islamabad Abpara Chowk..bring all these baighairat generals ..to that..place..and sentence them to death..in front of all nation.....thats the only solution left...if we want to get rid of this cancer...
#222 Posted by dawa-i-dil on July 31, 2007 4:16:20 am
An elected leader of 15 crore people declined 5 phone calls of US President...as he knew...if he will not disobey him...2/3 majority in National Assembly against him..will kick him out from PM seat....
While this baighairat general...about which Clinton ..was not willing to shake hands with him...on eve of 11 september 2001..laid down his all weapons on his bed when he listened tothe 3rd level secretary of US ...lanat on him....
is this the respect of a nuclear and missile state....can an elected leader do that.....without taking into consideration his cabinet..NA ..Senate...and pals like Saudia..Emirates..and China etc....
just as this baihghairat Dictaor got a golden chance to "Legetamize" his millitary rule..in eyes of US and West....and for his seat...he pushed the whole pakistan..in fire and hell...of that war..which was not actually of pakistan....and accepted every thing they demanded..shame on him.....
can an elected goverment do that..it is answerable to 10's of institution..this Dictaor was not answerable to anyone....
and plz..dont give me psuedo threats of US attackilng pakistan and taking her to cave era or stone age like crap.....only dictators having no public support fear from these childish threats...not any elected government of 150 millions......
While this baighairat general...about which Clinton ..was not willing to shake hands with him...on eve of 11 september 2001..laid down his all weapons on his bed when he listened tothe 3rd level secretary of US ...lanat on him....
is this the respect of a nuclear and missile state....can an elected leader do that.....without taking into consideration his cabinet..NA ..Senate...and pals like Saudia..Emirates..and China etc....
just as this baihghairat Dictaor got a golden chance to "Legetamize" his millitary rule..in eyes of US and West....and for his seat...he pushed the whole pakistan..in fire and hell...of that war..which was not actually of pakistan....and accepted every thing they demanded..shame on him.....
can an elected goverment do that..it is answerable to 10's of institution..this Dictaor was not answerable to anyone....
and plz..dont give me psuedo threats of US attackilng pakistan and taking her to cave era or stone age like crap.....only dictators having no public support fear from these childish threats...not any elected government of 150 millions......
#221 Posted by dawa-i-dil on July 31, 2007 4:15:58 am
An elected leader of 15 crore people declined 5 phone calls of US President...as he knew...if he will not disobey him...2/3 majority in National Assembly against him..will kick him out from PM seat....
While this baighairat general...about which Clinton ..was not willing to shake hands with him...on eve of 11 september 2001..laid down his all weapons on his bed when he listened tothe 3rd level secretary of US ...lanat on him....
is this the respect of a nuclear and missile state....can an elected leader do that.....without taking into consideration his cabinet..NA ..Senate...and pals like Saudia..Emirates..and China etc....
just as this baihghairat Dictaor got a golden chance to "Legetamize" his millitary rule..in eyes of US and West....and for his seat...he pushed the whole pakistan..in fire and hell...of that war..which was not actually of pakistan....and accepted every thing they demanded..shame on him.....
can an elected goverment do that..it is answerable to 10's of institution..this Dictaor was not answerable to anyone....
and plz..dont give me psuedo threats of US attackilng pakistan and taking her to cave era or stone age like crap.....only dictators having no public support fear from these childish threats...not any elected government of 150 millions......
While this baighairat general...about which Clinton ..was not willing to shake hands with him...on eve of 11 september 2001..laid down his all weapons on his bed when he listened tothe 3rd level secretary of US ...lanat on him....
is this the respect of a nuclear and missile state....can an elected leader do that.....without taking into consideration his cabinet..NA ..Senate...and pals like Saudia..Emirates..and China etc....
just as this baihghairat Dictaor got a golden chance to "Legetamize" his millitary rule..in eyes of US and West....and for his seat...he pushed the whole pakistan..in fire and hell...of that war..which was not actually of pakistan....and accepted every thing they demanded..shame on him.....
can an elected goverment do that..it is answerable to 10's of institution..this Dictaor was not answerable to anyone....
and plz..dont give me psuedo threats of US attackilng pakistan and taking her to cave era or stone age like crap.....only dictators having no public support fear from these childish threats...not any elected government of 150 millions......
#220 Posted by dawa-i-dil on July 31, 2007 4:15:45 am
Do you not know this simple fact that newton's 3rd Law..is more applicable to our social life rather than Physics...
do you not know..what this Baighairat general did in 8 years to change the ideological islamic axis of pakistan....
nobody wants cave vesrion of jahil taliban type islam in Pakistan...but is it means that you start Sharab-o-Kabab mehfils..in every nook and corner of the country... semi nude Marathon races...the cable dish atmosphere... ..indian kanjar culture...the indo pak blend of film and drama industry...music cocerts in army areas in whole Pakistan...where these Baighairat generals...having drinks in hands....dance with the singers.....
* do you not know what is happening in pakistan in whole this dictator era....the Basant ....and mujras..and chaklas ...stage dances.....and brothels....where were they leading to pakistan....
Thjis baighairat general....asked for Imam-e-Kaaba ...last few months..when the whole country stood with CJ of Pakistan..why not he remebered to have one more Marathon Race...with logo Dor mairai Lahore.....why he invited Imam-e-Kaaba..and start giving proofs of his entering the Khana Kaaba and on his roof....
can you change the religious axis of pakistan on the name of so called Enlightened Moderation.....can people will accept all these things....
will they not react....before this Dictator..where were all talibans...when they actualy ruling in Afghanistan..therewas no talbinization in whole pakistan..and when they are not actually n the scene..suddenly..this Talbinization ..reached inside Islamabad...why ???????
When you try to change the mindset of traditions..then be ready to face the music also....
do you not know..what this Baighairat general did in 8 years to change the ideological islamic axis of pakistan....
nobody wants cave vesrion of jahil taliban type islam in Pakistan...but is it means that you start Sharab-o-Kabab mehfils..in every nook and corner of the country... semi nude Marathon races...the cable dish atmosphere... ..indian kanjar culture...the indo pak blend of film and drama industry...music cocerts in army areas in whole Pakistan...where these Baighairat generals...having drinks in hands....dance with the singers.....
* do you not know what is happening in pakistan in whole this dictator era....the Basant ....and mujras..and chaklas ...stage dances.....and brothels....where were they leading to pakistan....
Thjis baighairat general....asked for Imam-e-Kaaba ...last few months..when the whole country stood with CJ of Pakistan..why not he remebered to have one more Marathon Race...with logo Dor mairai Lahore.....why he invited Imam-e-Kaaba..and start giving proofs of his entering the Khana Kaaba and on his roof....
can you change the religious axis of pakistan on the name of so called Enlightened Moderation.....can people will accept all these things....
will they not react....before this Dictator..where were all talibans...when they actualy ruling in Afghanistan..therewas no talbinization in whole pakistan..and when they are not actually n the scene..suddenly..this Talbinization ..reached inside Islamabad...why ???????
When you try to change the mindset of traditions..then be ready to face the music also....
#219 Posted by dawa-i-dil on July 31, 2007 4:15:17 am
You said that Lal Masjid was a drama and threat of islamic millitants....
hahahah....
*do you know...the ISI HQ is about 200 or 400 yards from the Lal Mosque....
* the petrol bombs...rocket launchers...gas masks..accumulated to this mosque in invisble mode...i think.....
* the ISI personals were drinkinng daru ..and enjoying soota of powder wali cigaratte when all arms were going in.....
* is it possible that..inside heart of a capital..and adjacent to ISI HQ....the dangerous arms keep on gathering....
* The baighairat general and his bloody baihgat generals ka tola ...instteadof using IB..MI..and ISI for national security..were using them to gather funny and ridiculous....proofs of Chef Justice inside house photographs..bugging the 19 SC judges...phone tapping...and threatening them with pressures.....Lanat on them...is in UK or USA..can you think..the government can do such dirty things....
* bugging of all High Courts ..and judges housese so that they cnnot unfold..the Chor Bazari..of the government..and black mail them...lanat on all the Baighatrs general's Tola again....
*when secret agents are on phone tapping of judges...can they know..wht is happening inside the heart of capital...in a place which is already famous for tensive speeches and vogorousss elements....
*who supported Ghazi brothers for 20 years...were all armed forces were not with them...now they have become the terrorists....
* i am against their implementation ways..but what they are saying...is 100% right..do you not know..what is going on in the name of enlightened Moderation..are you so unaware of that...Aunti Shameem...regulars customers were many Federal Secreatries..and 2 Ministers....and police invited the girls to stop that..as they said ..we are helpless due to government pressure..i am aginst the way the girls raided..but its not the duty of law enforcement agencies to stop these things..tell me...
hahahah....
*do you know...the ISI HQ is about 200 or 400 yards from the Lal Mosque....
* the petrol bombs...rocket launchers...gas masks..accumulated to this mosque in invisble mode...i think.....
* the ISI personals were drinkinng daru ..and enjoying soota of powder wali cigaratte when all arms were going in.....
* is it possible that..inside heart of a capital..and adjacent to ISI HQ....the dangerous arms keep on gathering....
* The baighairat general and his bloody baihgat generals ka tola ...instteadof using IB..MI..and ISI for national security..were using them to gather funny and ridiculous....proofs of Chef Justice inside house photographs..bugging the 19 SC judges...phone tapping...and threatening them with pressures.....Lanat on them...is in UK or USA..can you think..the government can do such dirty things....
* bugging of all High Courts ..and judges housese so that they cnnot unfold..the Chor Bazari..of the government..and black mail them...lanat on all the Baighatrs general's Tola again....
*when secret agents are on phone tapping of judges...can they know..wht is happening inside the heart of capital...in a place which is already famous for tensive speeches and vogorousss elements....
*who supported Ghazi brothers for 20 years...were all armed forces were not with them...now they have become the terrorists....
* i am against their implementation ways..but what they are saying...is 100% right..do you not know..what is going on in the name of enlightened Moderation..are you so unaware of that...Aunti Shameem...regulars customers were many Federal Secreatries..and 2 Ministers....and police invited the girls to stop that..as they said ..we are helpless due to government pressure..i am aginst the way the girls raided..but its not the duty of law enforcement agencies to stop these things..tell me...
#218 Posted by jayp on July 31, 2007 3:12:07 am
215 Kaalchakra,
I too have heard this question.
Tell them to be indian means to take a long term view on all matters and try to be very good in whatever one chooses to do.
This has to be demonstrated by parents own actions by example. Send them to the best schools at the expense of living in a smaller house. That is long term view.
Look after them, spend time with them at the expense of rapidly advancing career. That is long term view.
Finally by retirement look back with pride that your 26 year old is paid more than your last pay after more than 3 decades as an engineer. That is long term view.
I too have heard this question.
Tell them to be indian means to take a long term view on all matters and try to be very good in whatever one chooses to do.
This has to be demonstrated by parents own actions by example. Send them to the best schools at the expense of living in a smaller house. That is long term view.
Look after them, spend time with them at the expense of rapidly advancing career. That is long term view.
Finally by retirement look back with pride that your 26 year old is paid more than your last pay after more than 3 decades as an engineer. That is long term view.
#217 Posted by zeemax on July 31, 2007 1:40:52 am
#205 Posted by KaalChakra
HAHA, zee, just returned to share this somewhat amusing idea. Hindu liberals are Hindus who have "faith" in yesterday's man-made beliefs. :)
Haha ... brilliant!
HAHA, zee, just returned to share this somewhat amusing idea. Hindu liberals are Hindus who have "faith" in yesterday's man-made beliefs. :)
Haha ... brilliant!
#216 Posted by ajeya on July 30, 2007 11:11:08 pm
#215 Posted by KaalChakra
[What, broadly, for "indian culture" should Indians in the US try to teach their sons and daughters born and brought up here, right in the land of the free? I have seen new parents here repeatedly ask this question. You are more knowledgeable than I am, so would love to know your views, and those of anyone else who might wish to share. Thanks.]
They should teach whatever pleases their soul. Who am I to tell them what they should or should not do? It's like if you decide to wear a neon pink Hawaiian shirt to work. Should I stop you? Of course not (not that I could if I tried : )). Will it cause me to grit my teeth and lose a crown or two? You bet it will. But that's the price you pay for democracy. : )
[What, broadly, for "indian culture" should Indians in the US try to teach their sons and daughters born and brought up here, right in the land of the free? I have seen new parents here repeatedly ask this question. You are more knowledgeable than I am, so would love to know your views, and those of anyone else who might wish to share. Thanks.]
They should teach whatever pleases their soul. Who am I to tell them what they should or should not do? It's like if you decide to wear a neon pink Hawaiian shirt to work. Should I stop you? Of course not (not that I could if I tried : )). Will it cause me to grit my teeth and lose a crown or two? You bet it will. But that's the price you pay for democracy. : )
#215 Posted by KaalChakra on July 30, 2007 9:18:59 pm
Ajeya, ok, please leave mohar and arjun aside, I want to pick your brains on something important you just mentioned :)
What, broadly, for "indian culture" should Indians in the US try to teach their sons and daughters born and brought up here, right in the land of the free? I have seen new parents here repeatedly ask this question. You are more knowledgeable than I am, so would love to know your views, and those of anyone else who might wish to share. Thanks.
What, broadly, for "indian culture" should Indians in the US try to teach their sons and daughters born and brought up here, right in the land of the free? I have seen new parents here repeatedly ask this question. You are more knowledgeable than I am, so would love to know your views, and those of anyone else who might wish to share. Thanks.
#214 Posted by ajeya on July 30, 2007 9:02:57 pm
#209 Posted by mohar11
[Good post... Ajeya is unnecessarily hung-up on semantics : "Mummy-Daddy" and "Bobbie-Pinky"... even though I haven't heard anybody in US named as "Pinky"...
This is just semantics - Just like "God" doesn't mean a western god... Words like Mom and Dad are just part of English Language - which is our legacy as much anybody else's... English is as much an "Indian" language as it is a western language...]
If Hindi and English are equally our legacy, how come most Indians I know speak in their native tongue at home, but never fail to call their father "Dad" and mother "Mom"?
It's not semantics, my friend, there is something more at work here.
[If one don't like the words Mummy-daddy - one may as well stop using the words like "table", "chair", "internet", "web" etc etc and use it's indian equivalent - if one can find one...]
Tables and chairs were mostly British imports, at least on a mass scale. The internet and the web were created and named in the west. Were the parents created and named in the west too?
[Sorry to say this - but Ajeya is just being silly and frivolous... His arguments sound increasingly like chicken little - the sky is falling - Indian culture is being taken over... where as nothing of that sort is happening...
Indians world over are known to tenaciously hang on to their indian-ness - generations after generations - in totally foreign lands[sometimes to their own detriment]... we see that all the time in US... ]
I live in the US. Almost all Indian parents I see are westernized - they look Indian, but their values are indistiguishable from their American neighbors - and it's difficult to tell their children apart from Jay-Z or any of the other cultural icons. There are exceptions to all of this, of course, but this is true in general.
[So to think that they will just roll over into whole-scale westernization in their own homeland is just plain ridiculous... ]
I hope you are right. But the signs are not good.
[Good post... Ajeya is unnecessarily hung-up on semantics : "Mummy-Daddy" and "Bobbie-Pinky"... even though I haven't heard anybody in US named as "Pinky"...
This is just semantics - Just like "God" doesn't mean a western god... Words like Mom and Dad are just part of English Language - which is our legacy as much anybody else's... English is as much an "Indian" language as it is a western language...]
If Hindi and English are equally our legacy, how come most Indians I know speak in their native tongue at home, but never fail to call their father "Dad" and mother "Mom"?
It's not semantics, my friend, there is something more at work here.
[If one don't like the words Mummy-daddy - one may as well stop using the words like "table", "chair", "internet", "web" etc etc and use it's indian equivalent - if one can find one...]
Tables and chairs were mostly British imports, at least on a mass scale. The internet and the web were created and named in the west. Were the parents created and named in the west too?
[Sorry to say this - but Ajeya is just being silly and frivolous... His arguments sound increasingly like chicken little - the sky is falling - Indian culture is being taken over... where as nothing of that sort is happening...
Indians world over are known to tenaciously hang on to their indian-ness - generations after generations - in totally foreign lands[sometimes to their own detriment]... we see that all the time in US... ]
I live in the US. Almost all Indian parents I see are westernized - they look Indian, but their values are indistiguishable from their American neighbors - and it's difficult to tell their children apart from Jay-Z or any of the other cultural icons. There are exceptions to all of this, of course, but this is true in general.
[So to think that they will just roll over into whole-scale westernization in their own homeland is just plain ridiculous... ]
I hope you are right. But the signs are not good.
#213 Posted by ajeya on July 30, 2007 8:19:44 pm
#210 Posted by mohar11
[And Ajeya's remark on slapping people on valentine's day is particularly troubling... Hope he has not carried out that threat already - that would be bordering on talibanism... or shiv-sena-ism, if you will... :) ]
That would be better than calling your father "Dad" or mother "Mom". : )
[And Ajeya's remark on slapping people on valentine's day is particularly troubling... Hope he has not carried out that threat already - that would be bordering on talibanism... or shiv-sena-ism, if you will... :) ]
That would be better than calling your father "Dad" or mother "Mom". : )
#212 Posted by ajeya on July 30, 2007 8:17:51 pm
#208 Posted by arjun2
[you've mistaken me for someone who gives a roden't rear..]
I don't blame you. It's not your fault. Half-breeds usually don't give a rat's as$ about anything. No culture, no past, no future. Go back to your javascript or whatever miserable little job you have.
[you've mistaken me for someone who gives a roden't rear..]
I don't blame you. It's not your fault. Half-breeds usually don't give a rat's as$ about anything. No culture, no past, no future. Go back to your javascript or whatever miserable little job you have.
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