Of Carnage and Triumph

hamidm/tahmad #: of the four questions i asked, only one has been answered, i.e. hamidm mian's father was not a brigadier......the remaining three remain unanswered.....hence i will ask them again:

tahmad: was your father in the military and was he a brigadier
hamidm mian: was your father in the military (if not a brigadier, then some other rank, perhaps?)

"but...and mr know-it-all .........."

i am, still, truly amazed that you consider me a, "know-it-all"......perhaps it could be that i only have average knowledge and yours is quite a bit below, hence i seem like a know-it-all to you.......

Hindus could be behind many of the blasts in Pakistan

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Blatant double standards
22 Oct 2007, 0000 hrs IST,

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With Islamic groups “not being ruled out’’ as culprits in the Ludhiana bomb blast, and Bangladeshis being interrogated for the Ajmer blast, it is clear that in India’s fight against terrorism, one group of terrorists is being completely excluded.

This is despite the Nanded blast in April 2006, in which two persons died while making bombs in the house of an RSS member, and the recovery of fake beards from the house. This is despite the revelations during narco-analysis of the accused that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) was training Hindu youth to commit terrorist acts outside mosques. Neither the RSS nor any of its militant wings are ever suspected by the police of being behind any of the bomb blasts that have targeted Muslims with regularity since the 2003 Parbhani blast.

This newspaper highlighted the sensational letter written from Tihar jail by an ex-Intelligence Bureau (IB) informer detailing how IB, working with the Delhi Police’s Special Cell, plants its own ‘‘jehadi maulvis’’ to lure Muslim youth to commit terrorist acts. The Central Bureau of Investigation, directed by the Delhi high court, has corroborated the most important accusations made by the informer. Every politically conscious Muslim, thanks to the Urdu press and the internet, now knows this story.

These two factors taken together are enough to destroy the credibility of the intelligence set-up and the police. Yet, the latter continue to act true to type after every blast, as though nothing’s changed. The same automatic blaming and arrest of the usual suspects; the same revelation that the IB/home department had warned about such a blast.

It is ironic that the very congregations of Muslims that have always been treated with suspicion by the police have become the targets of terrorist killings since 2003.

The depositions of senior policemen before the Srikrishna commission were marked by a Friday-namaz-phobia; they made it a point to stress that ‘‘bandobast was tightened for the Friday prayers and no untoward incident took place’’. The implication was clear: with Muslims gathering in such large numbers to listen to sermons in mosques, there was every chance of them going berserk thereafter.

Yet, there is little evidence of the high-profile Anti-Terrorist Squads (ATS), set up in Maharashtra and elsewhere, having conducted raids on RSS outfits. In fact, the Maharashtra Control of Organised Crime Act has not even been applied to the Nanded RSS accused, while it has to those accused for the July 11, 2006 train blasts, the Malegaon blasts and the alleged Naxalites. Nanded’s Muslims had to move the court before the state even called in the ATS to investigate the case.

You don’t need to be the IB to fear a blast during Diwali. Imagine the backlash if that happens. Yet, a blast on the eve of Ramzan Eid at India’s best-known Muslim shrine created no such reaction. The Ajmer dargah was teeming with devotees who had fasted the entire month and planned to spend their most important religious festival at their favourite shrine. Even the return of the bodies to their homes in Mumbai’s slums passed off peacefully. Compare this extreme restraint with the threats given by the Modis, Thackerays, Togadias and Singhals in similar circumstances.

After every bomb blast targeting Hindus, these self-styled Hindu leaders ask why Muslims have not condemned it. Their logic is clear: Because some Muslims have targeted Hindus, the entire community has to distance itself from them or else share their guilt. But not once in the recent blasts targeting Muslims has such a demand been made by Muslims of Hindus; neither have Hindu organisations condemned such acts.

The state’s agencies have different yardsticks when dealing with terrorist acts targeting Hindus and Muslims. What’s more disturbing is the difference between the conduct of the victim communities in the aftermath of such acts. Isn’t this difference an indication of the power equation between the majority and largest minority in our secular democracy?

romair,

you idiot ! .... who told you that my father was a brigadier ? ...... the poor man used to ride a bicycle to work because he wanted to save on the petrol - albeit, it was a phillips with a pump mounted on the cross bar and the orderly would dust it off and hold it for him ! ....

..... and don't give me this crap about your poor buddies in the airforce ...... if you had managed to keep your job as a grease monkey for fifteen years, you could have walked off with a house worth two crore rupees ...... and, if you were smart, you could also have landed a couple of plots in dha which you could have flipped and pocketed another 50 lakh or so ......... i know plenty of wing commanders who have done just that then gone ont to a cushy job with shaheen foundation ......... but you are a fool and are now pounding the pavement as an international businessman, plitical pundit and mr know-it-all ..........

..... jeez ! what a maroon !

#141 bulleye: you write "- if someone is a product of higher-ups of the military, and believes that military higher-up is filled with corruption (which it is), yet does not disclose such information about himself, he is a hypocrite...."

your powers of logic never cease to amaze me!! i bet you could almost reason your way out of an open barn door.

and your implication that i am "not divulging" information about myself is bs - i am actually one of the more open posters on chowk, and when i consider it relevant to what I am writing i mention family details. but that is my choice, not something i or anyone owes anyone on chowk.

only a moron would think that anyone owes some stranger on the internet his personal details.

#141 bulleye: you write "- if someone is a product of higher-ups of the military, and believes that military higher-up is filled with corruption (which it is), yet does not disclose such information about himself, he is a hypocrite...."

your powers of logic never cease to amaze me!! i bet you could almost reason your way out of an open barn door.

and your implication that i am "not divulging" information about myself is bs - i am actually one of the more open posters on chowk, and when i consider it relevant to what I am writing i mention family details. but that is my choice, not something i or anyone owes anyone on chowk.

only a moron would think that anyone owes some stranger on the internet his personal details.

tahmad #139: "How are the official ranks of anyone's aba-o-ijdaad relevant to what that individual writes on chowk?"

...could i request you to kindly answer the questions:

3. tahmad mian: was your father in the pakistan army
4. tahmad mian: was he a brigadier

...it is not a question of official ranks......it is question of figuring out exactly where one is coming from......it allows one to differentiate the hypocrites from the straight-talkers........e.g.

- if someone migrates to the usa and benefits from the usa by living there, yet still badmounths the place, he is a hypocrite

- if someone urges others' kids to war, but will never send his own, he is a hypocrite

- if someone is a product of higher-ups of the military, and believes that military higher-up is filled with corruption (which it is), yet does not disclose such information about himself, he is a hypocrite....

#135 bulleye: How are the official ranks of anyone's aba-o-ijdaad relevant to what that individual writes on chowk? The internet is the supreme equalizer in many ways - what you write stands or falls on its own merits, without any influence exerted by socio-economic levels, personal gravitas, and so forth. Lets not try to change that.

#135 bulleye: How are the official ranks of anyone's aba-o-ijdaad relevant to what that individual writes on chowk? The internet is the supreme equalizer in many ways - what you write stands or falls on its own merits, without any influence exerted by socio-economic levels, personal gravitas, and so forth. Lets not try to change that.

Ras and Hamidm: Thanks for your words of appreciation.

Romair sahib,

What really are the options in front of Pakistan and gen Mush at the moment?

If they dont fight, two things can happen. First, they risk the jihadis establishing themselves firmly in FATA from where they will gradually spreads their tentacles into the rest of NWFP and after that the whole of Pakistan. In effect creeping Talibanisation of Pakistan. Second, if things go out of control in FATA, their is the possibility that USA decides to military intervene in NWFP without Paki approval in fact in face of downright Paki opposition. And there wouldn't be much that pakistan can do about it. In such a case USA wuldnt care to provide any susbidy to Pak Army if it is doing the fighting itself.

If it does fight in FATA, it risks heavy casualty both to itself and to the civillian population and heavy unpopularity in rest of Pakistan too for the Pakis (barring the kanjaroon elite) perceive it as USA's war. And should the US-Pak alliance win decisively in A'stan-FATA (which is very likely) there is always a possibility that once the war is over USA just walks out without any big payoff to pakistan (except of course saving civil society in Pak which is a big plus any way).

Hard choices for Pakistan and its ruler but on balance you would think that the best option is to fight and win in FATA. While at the same time try to wean away the local population from the jihadi cause by investing in their development

Regards

#134 by bulleya

so the two biggest beneificiaries of the army, encouraging other poorer folks to, "fight on" while quitely enjoying themselves in the usa........

Romair mian, if it wasn't for the lack of opportunity, I'm sure you would have been in the WOT too, fighting for the Paki Army against the Taliban and Al Qaeda. After all, not too long ago, weren't you the one who expressed an itch to lead the American troops into Afghanistan?

four questions for messrs. hamidm mian and tahmad:

1. hamidm mian: was your father in the pakistan army
2. hamidm mian: was he a brigadier....
3. tahmad mian: was your father in the pakistan army
4. tahmad mian: was he a brigadier

let's come clean and establish one's backgrounds....

p.s. a brigadier during those days was equivalent to a lt. gen. of today's world.......

hamidm mian #: "whenever we went up with friends who were junior officers in the air force or army, we never paid the toll - the flying officer"

..i will definitely agree with you on this, when it comes to generals....i have had much larger fights with them then you can ever type on your keyboards.....

in fact, didn't you say your father was a brigadier....hence you, yourself, are a product of this military feudalism.....the fact that you are comfortably settled in usa and can afford a sprinkler guy, should be the first item you (and the rest of us) should be criticizing......quite a bit of hypocrisy......a scion of the military elite, not criticizing himself first....

as for the flying officer and lieutenant, kindly spare a thought for the poor guy.......i used to be one......and lived from paycheck to paycheck......these guys have zero money.......even now, when i go back and meet my batchmates, and take them out to pizza hut, they all get this worried look on their face, when the bill arrives....

now the four or five of them who become generals, will no doubt, make huge amounts of money, through legalized corruptoin......and will then send their kid to the usa, who will benefit from this corruption, and hire a sprinkler guy........or wait, hasn't that already happened.....

so, would it be correct to state, that your dad is, himself, a brigadier and a beneficiary of this legalized corruption.......shouldn't we (or you, yourself) be targeting you, first.......

you are a wealthy expat, sitting abroad, having lived off the benefits of pakistan and the benefits of the pakistan army through your dad, never willing to come back to pakistan to do anything, encouraging every war yet never willing to volunteer for it, and bent on keeping your kids away from it, while encouraging poorer kids to fight........

p.s. if i am not incorrect, i believe mr. tahmad's dad was also a brigadier in the pakistan army........kindly correct me, if i am wrong tahmad......

so the two biggest beneificiaries of the army, encouraging other poorer folks to, "fight on" while quitely enjoying themselves in the usa........allah be praised.....and george bush be praised.......

When a person (Ras) has been reduced to mere cheerleading in posts, you can know that his grasp of the issues and arguments is rather weak. Tahmed has no personal point of view, as usual he is merely pushing the official talking points of the US elite and hence his support for BB. Hamid is pushing the official talking points not of the US elite (who are more sophisticated) but the talking points of Bush (who stumbles through the elite agenda due to weakness in the intellect department), and were it not for Cheney they would have got rid of him by now, so in this progressively lowered expectations, Ras figures in at the bottom pushing the talking points of both the peons of the West....

Re: # 130

ras mian,

.... tahmed is a good chap even though i sometimes berate him for being a 'good' muslim .... if all muslims were like him i could live with islam .......

hamidm2 Sahib,

write on!