An Unnecessary Interview with History
Amer Nazir February 25, 2008
#38 Posted by Skeptical on April 3, 2008 9:47:21 pm
I really do not know why the author of this article is being critisized so much..
For all those who think that we should not "humilate" a sitting president....just see the international and local media...they are all critisizing him...
Regarding this argument that politicians have been corrupt whereas Musharraf is a better choice,
I am pasting an article written by an Indian....kindly see it...it does make a very strong case…its an outsider’s view which demonstrates as to why there is a difference in fortunes between two countries…
Junta versus Janata by Shekhar Gupta, The Indian Express
Published on January 21, 2008
The Indian politician bumbles, the Pakistani general strides purposefully in his natty suits. Guess who keeps his country stable. Pakistanis surely coin more colourful political slogan than us. They are also less subtle. So, the next time you see visuals of a PPP protest rally on your TV screens following Benazir¡¦s assassination, strain your ears a bit to catch a most telling slogan: Amreeka ne kutta paala, vardi waala, vardi waala. It would lose much flavour in transliteration, but the meaning would not be lost on even a non-Hindi speaker. Now when was the last time you had the army called a dog, and that too an American poodle, on Pakistan¡¦s streets? And this is a Pakistan under an almighty (lately, former) general who has the power to declare and suspend emergency in televised speeches, the power to make 36 (or thereabouts) amendments in his ¡§constitution¡¨ at a press conference, and whose ability to take the biggest decisions on the spot is the envy, often, of the Indian politician, and has been a cause for admiration among India¡¦s chattering classes.
How many times, since he came on his first visit for the Agra summit, have we heard fellow Indians, including serious, knowledgeable people, talk of him with a sense of awe? See, how confident he looks, how well he speaks, the swagger, so impressive, knows his mind, is so fit and energetic, so much in control, so macho, can-do and so on. The sub-text was, view this is total contrast with our own political class: overweight, badly dressed, clumsy, evasive in their answers, indecisive, inarticulate and, horror of horrors, not even able to speak any English.
And then came Shaukat Aziz, on secondment from Citibank. So smart, articulate, in his smartly cut suits, blah, blah and blah. And what kind of people did we have holding the same job in India? Gowda, who slept in Parliament. Vajpayee, who never seems to answer any question. Gujral who only uttered diplomatic platitudes that meant nothing. And Narasimha Rao, who mostly pretended he had not even heard the question.
Now let me tell you a few stories. Not necessarily connected either by timing or context, but yielding an interesting conclusion, nevertheless.
¡E One of the great untold stories of the Agra summit is how challenging it was for both Vajpayee and Musharraf to deal with each other. One thought he had the answer even before a question had been asked. The other would think for ever, and often tire out his interlocutor. Apparently at one of the mid-day review sessions Musharraf shared his exasperation with his aides. He said something like, I know you guys told me he takes time responding to anything, but how do I deal with somebody who takes so long and then says nothing? A bit like John McEnroe tossing his racket in exasperation while playing Ramesh Krishnan and screaming: how do I play this guy? He serves at five miles per hour!
One of his aides tried to suggest that Vajpayee takes so long because he is processing Musharraf¡¦s question in his wise, old head. Musharraf was still irritated and somebody senior in his inner council said, with humour laced with disdain: to unka processor Pentium nahin, 286 hoga (then his processor must be a 286, not a Pentium).
¡E Now listen to the story from the other end. What exasperated Vajpayee most of all was Musharraf¡¦s cocky ¡§decisiveness¡¨. ¡§You are the prime minister, I am the president, if we agree on something, let¡¦s sign,¡¨ he would say, while at the same time making changes on the draft of a likely agreement and asking Vajpayee to okay it. He simply wouldn¡¦t buy Vajpayee¡¦s argument that he had a cabinet to go back to. ¡§Par aap prime minister hain. Aap faisla keejiye (but you are the prime minister, you decide),¡¨ Musharraf would say. So when Vajpayee briefed his aides and fellow members of the Cabinet Committee on Security (who, barring George Fernandes, were in Agra), he said about his counterpart pretty much the opposite of what he said of him: ¡§He is in such a hurry. Kuchch sochne ko taiyyar nahin hain. Sub kuch faisala abhi chahte hain, kaise samjhaoon bhai.¡¨ Or words to that effect.
¡E In the main lounge of the Congress Centre at Davos, Switzerland, where all kinds from heads of state to global corporate leaders to rock stars to ordinary journalists congregate and rub shoulders during the World Economic Forum January meeting, I found my old friend, Pakistani journalist, part-time politician, now a full-time exile, Boston University professor and also an Indian Express columnist, Husain Haqqani. As we exchanged gossip, Shaukat Aziz walked past, accompanied by a couple of minders, perfectly cut suit, pompous, smug smile and all. Just that morning he had lectured many of us senior editors over breakfast, laying down the law for India: nothing would move, the gas pipeline, even the permission to Indian private airlines to fly to Pakistan unless the ¡§core¡¨ issue was addressed. Again there was some admiration for his confidence and clarity even among the Indian contingent as he was ¡§so unlike our bumbling politicians¡¨.
Haqqani¡¦s eyes were now lit up with mischief. He pointed his finger directly at Aziz and said: ¡§You know what they say, Davos is the Disneyland of the mind. If that be so, there goes its Mickey Mouse.¡¨
How have the relative fortunes of the two competing kinds of leaderships and nations under their charge evolved over these seven years? Musharraf now looks bumbling and unconvincing, an international joke, a pitiable, forlorn figure, hated by his countrymen, distrusted by the world and mentioned dismissively even by Barack Obama. Shaukat Aziz has disappeared from the scene, even losing out to an ordinary mortal ¡X coincidentally from India ¡X for the top job in his alma mater, Citi. Their country is a mess, their own army, for the first time, is seeing its credibility, power, its pre-eminent position in Pakistan¡¦s society and power structure questioned. Its political class is decimated, its institutions fatally wounded. How do people as proud as the Pakistanis feel when their dictator offers to salvage his credibility by summoning the Scotland Yard to investigate the assassination of their most prominent political leader? Nobody believes their election commission¡¦s intentions, motives or judgment in postponing their election.
Vajpayee, on the other hand, sits at home, having lost power in an election, not in the pink of health, but satisfied at the way his country is moving. His successor, from the opposite side of the political fence, even comes to wish him on his birthday. His country has meanwhile had many more state elections and another general election within a year or so will give his successors in his own party another crack at power. Now, think, who finally won. The indecisive, inarticulate, ineffective slob who did not seem to have an answer to anything, or the macho, confident, smart, decisive, modern smartie who seemed to have an answer to everything?
There are many interesting, and important conclusions to be drawn from this complex argument. But the most significant is this: a modern nation needs democracy and so it needs its politicians, however clumsy, corrupt, effete and power-crazed they may be. Because a military dictator can also be all of these things. The difference is, the political leader draws his power from the democratic process, so he has a stake in preserving that system, howsoever cynical he may be. The general draws his power by throttling the democratic system and its institutions and you can see the results of that in Pakistan. So, in a democracy, howsoever powerful a Lalu or Mayawati, they have to shut up and listen when the Supreme Court speaks. The election commission can publicly upbraid both Sonia Gandhi and Narendra Modi. We, the media, can question and curse who we want. It happens because the political class has the biggest stake in the democratic process, howsoever much it may wish to manipulate it. In contrast, a military dictator owes his power to the absence of institutions, of checks and balances. That is exactly what Musharraf has done to his judiciary, the election commission and even the media. That is why he has to summon the Scotland Yard to investigate Benazir¡¦s assassination.
For all those who think that we should not "humilate" a sitting president....just see the international and local media...they are all critisizing him...
Regarding this argument that politicians have been corrupt whereas Musharraf is a better choice,
I am pasting an article written by an Indian....kindly see it...it does make a very strong case…its an outsider’s view which demonstrates as to why there is a difference in fortunes between two countries…
Junta versus Janata by Shekhar Gupta, The Indian Express
Published on January 21, 2008
The Indian politician bumbles, the Pakistani general strides purposefully in his natty suits. Guess who keeps his country stable. Pakistanis surely coin more colourful political slogan than us. They are also less subtle. So, the next time you see visuals of a PPP protest rally on your TV screens following Benazir¡¦s assassination, strain your ears a bit to catch a most telling slogan: Amreeka ne kutta paala, vardi waala, vardi waala. It would lose much flavour in transliteration, but the meaning would not be lost on even a non-Hindi speaker. Now when was the last time you had the army called a dog, and that too an American poodle, on Pakistan¡¦s streets? And this is a Pakistan under an almighty (lately, former) general who has the power to declare and suspend emergency in televised speeches, the power to make 36 (or thereabouts) amendments in his ¡§constitution¡¨ at a press conference, and whose ability to take the biggest decisions on the spot is the envy, often, of the Indian politician, and has been a cause for admiration among India¡¦s chattering classes.
How many times, since he came on his first visit for the Agra summit, have we heard fellow Indians, including serious, knowledgeable people, talk of him with a sense of awe? See, how confident he looks, how well he speaks, the swagger, so impressive, knows his mind, is so fit and energetic, so much in control, so macho, can-do and so on. The sub-text was, view this is total contrast with our own political class: overweight, badly dressed, clumsy, evasive in their answers, indecisive, inarticulate and, horror of horrors, not even able to speak any English.
And then came Shaukat Aziz, on secondment from Citibank. So smart, articulate, in his smartly cut suits, blah, blah and blah. And what kind of people did we have holding the same job in India? Gowda, who slept in Parliament. Vajpayee, who never seems to answer any question. Gujral who only uttered diplomatic platitudes that meant nothing. And Narasimha Rao, who mostly pretended he had not even heard the question.
Now let me tell you a few stories. Not necessarily connected either by timing or context, but yielding an interesting conclusion, nevertheless.
¡E One of the great untold stories of the Agra summit is how challenging it was for both Vajpayee and Musharraf to deal with each other. One thought he had the answer even before a question had been asked. The other would think for ever, and often tire out his interlocutor. Apparently at one of the mid-day review sessions Musharraf shared his exasperation with his aides. He said something like, I know you guys told me he takes time responding to anything, but how do I deal with somebody who takes so long and then says nothing? A bit like John McEnroe tossing his racket in exasperation while playing Ramesh Krishnan and screaming: how do I play this guy? He serves at five miles per hour!
One of his aides tried to suggest that Vajpayee takes so long because he is processing Musharraf¡¦s question in his wise, old head. Musharraf was still irritated and somebody senior in his inner council said, with humour laced with disdain: to unka processor Pentium nahin, 286 hoga (then his processor must be a 286, not a Pentium).
¡E Now listen to the story from the other end. What exasperated Vajpayee most of all was Musharraf¡¦s cocky ¡§decisiveness¡¨. ¡§You are the prime minister, I am the president, if we agree on something, let¡¦s sign,¡¨ he would say, while at the same time making changes on the draft of a likely agreement and asking Vajpayee to okay it. He simply wouldn¡¦t buy Vajpayee¡¦s argument that he had a cabinet to go back to. ¡§Par aap prime minister hain. Aap faisla keejiye (but you are the prime minister, you decide),¡¨ Musharraf would say. So when Vajpayee briefed his aides and fellow members of the Cabinet Committee on Security (who, barring George Fernandes, were in Agra), he said about his counterpart pretty much the opposite of what he said of him: ¡§He is in such a hurry. Kuchch sochne ko taiyyar nahin hain. Sub kuch faisala abhi chahte hain, kaise samjhaoon bhai.¡¨ Or words to that effect.
¡E In the main lounge of the Congress Centre at Davos, Switzerland, where all kinds from heads of state to global corporate leaders to rock stars to ordinary journalists congregate and rub shoulders during the World Economic Forum January meeting, I found my old friend, Pakistani journalist, part-time politician, now a full-time exile, Boston University professor and also an Indian Express columnist, Husain Haqqani. As we exchanged gossip, Shaukat Aziz walked past, accompanied by a couple of minders, perfectly cut suit, pompous, smug smile and all. Just that morning he had lectured many of us senior editors over breakfast, laying down the law for India: nothing would move, the gas pipeline, even the permission to Indian private airlines to fly to Pakistan unless the ¡§core¡¨ issue was addressed. Again there was some admiration for his confidence and clarity even among the Indian contingent as he was ¡§so unlike our bumbling politicians¡¨.
Haqqani¡¦s eyes were now lit up with mischief. He pointed his finger directly at Aziz and said: ¡§You know what they say, Davos is the Disneyland of the mind. If that be so, there goes its Mickey Mouse.¡¨
How have the relative fortunes of the two competing kinds of leaderships and nations under their charge evolved over these seven years? Musharraf now looks bumbling and unconvincing, an international joke, a pitiable, forlorn figure, hated by his countrymen, distrusted by the world and mentioned dismissively even by Barack Obama. Shaukat Aziz has disappeared from the scene, even losing out to an ordinary mortal ¡X coincidentally from India ¡X for the top job in his alma mater, Citi. Their country is a mess, their own army, for the first time, is seeing its credibility, power, its pre-eminent position in Pakistan¡¦s society and power structure questioned. Its political class is decimated, its institutions fatally wounded. How do people as proud as the Pakistanis feel when their dictator offers to salvage his credibility by summoning the Scotland Yard to investigate the assassination of their most prominent political leader? Nobody believes their election commission¡¦s intentions, motives or judgment in postponing their election.
Vajpayee, on the other hand, sits at home, having lost power in an election, not in the pink of health, but satisfied at the way his country is moving. His successor, from the opposite side of the political fence, even comes to wish him on his birthday. His country has meanwhile had many more state elections and another general election within a year or so will give his successors in his own party another crack at power. Now, think, who finally won. The indecisive, inarticulate, ineffective slob who did not seem to have an answer to anything, or the macho, confident, smart, decisive, modern smartie who seemed to have an answer to everything?
There are many interesting, and important conclusions to be drawn from this complex argument. But the most significant is this: a modern nation needs democracy and so it needs its politicians, however clumsy, corrupt, effete and power-crazed they may be. Because a military dictator can also be all of these things. The difference is, the political leader draws his power from the democratic process, so he has a stake in preserving that system, howsoever cynical he may be. The general draws his power by throttling the democratic system and its institutions and you can see the results of that in Pakistan. So, in a democracy, howsoever powerful a Lalu or Mayawati, they have to shut up and listen when the Supreme Court speaks. The election commission can publicly upbraid both Sonia Gandhi and Narendra Modi. We, the media, can question and curse who we want. It happens because the political class has the biggest stake in the democratic process, howsoever much it may wish to manipulate it. In contrast, a military dictator owes his power to the absence of institutions, of checks and balances. That is exactly what Musharraf has done to his judiciary, the election commission and even the media. That is why he has to summon the Scotland Yard to investigate Benazir¡¦s assassination.
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#37 Posted by econfused on April 2, 2008 5:24:19 pm
Re #36
So I hit the nerve :), Go and check the discussion threads, I have been equally defending PPP. My original support is for Lawyers movement. You on the other hand just a produce of DICTATOR .
So I hit the nerve :), Go and check the discussion threads, I have been equally defending PPP. My original support is for Lawyers movement. You on the other hand just a produce of DICTATOR .
#36 Posted by MeraPakistan on April 2, 2008 5:44:46 am
Re: # 34
You said, that you dont support Ganja NS... I was on pkpolitics.com and I saw lot of your comments in favour of your lord Bhagora, which proves that you are BeySharam Liar on top of NS DumChalla and I dont like to communicate with people like you. Ciao
You said, that you dont support Ganja NS... I was on pkpolitics.com and I saw lot of your comments in favour of your lord Bhagora, which proves that you are BeySharam Liar on top of NS DumChalla and I dont like to communicate with people like you. Ciao
#35 Posted by econfused on March 28, 2008 1:12:17 pm
Re #33
"Country's Stability" or My Job First err. Pakistan First
"Country's Stability" or My Job First err. Pakistan First
#34 Posted by econfused on March 28, 2008 1:09:42 pm
Re #33
You can keep on bashing NS. I am glad dark era is over and we are back toward democracy with a parliament. You can keep your assumption that my vote was for NS :) as long as it hurts you.
Your beloved Musharraf said "In the Line of Fire", that there were Mujahidins :). While you are saying those were soldiers.
Well we do need commission to get the facts right.
Next coup has to wait for another 10 years. So keep trying :)
You can keep on bashing NS. I am glad dark era is over and we are back toward democracy with a parliament. You can keep your assumption that my vote was for NS :) as long as it hurts you.
Your beloved Musharraf said "In the Line of Fire", that there were Mujahidins :). While you are saying those were soldiers.
Well we do need commission to get the facts right.
Next coup has to wait for another 10 years. So keep trying :)
#33 Posted by MeraPakistan on March 28, 2008 11:05:09 am
Electrnically Confused,
WOW, 3 post in response to my comment !!! I guess, my words have lot of Penetration...the same they say about TRUTH.
Your lord, Nawaz Sharif is totally bent upon taking revenge from Musharraf at the cost of this country’s stability. He is the only one bragging about the judiciary because he knows he cannot deliver, he cant cut prices, construct dams or do anything for the common man.
He said that after the election he is going to make all possible efforts for the release A.Q Khan, but no one has heard any single statement from NS on this issue. NS was only screaming on these issues just to get the votes, but now he is in power, he would do nothing at all and we will see him busy in looting the treasury and over filling his bank accounts.
He goes to an Indian channel and talks about the setting up of a Kargil Commission. How low can you get? Your soldiers died in that battle while you were in the warmth of the White House. I wonder what NawazSharif has to say about the setting up of a commission to probe into the ‘karz utaro mulk sawaro’ funds, the plans of buying hundreds of acres of land up north with Indian companies to extract profits from mineral resources, the attack on Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah etc.?
Following are some of the Kartoots of your lord NS written by the same columnist, but these facts can be confirmed by googling the similar articles on this topic.
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4329 (Human Rights Groups Slam Nawaz Sharif)
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4363 (What Price Sharif Propaganda?)
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4430 (Pressure on Press from NS)
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4445 (Najam Sethi Kidnapped by NS)
If you still go in support of this Bhagora, then I would assume that, communicating with you is like banging head on the concrete wall.
WOW, 3 post in response to my comment !!! I guess, my words have lot of Penetration...the same they say about TRUTH.
Your lord, Nawaz Sharif is totally bent upon taking revenge from Musharraf at the cost of this country’s stability. He is the only one bragging about the judiciary because he knows he cannot deliver, he cant cut prices, construct dams or do anything for the common man.
He said that after the election he is going to make all possible efforts for the release A.Q Khan, but no one has heard any single statement from NS on this issue. NS was only screaming on these issues just to get the votes, but now he is in power, he would do nothing at all and we will see him busy in looting the treasury and over filling his bank accounts.
He goes to an Indian channel and talks about the setting up of a Kargil Commission. How low can you get? Your soldiers died in that battle while you were in the warmth of the White House. I wonder what NawazSharif has to say about the setting up of a commission to probe into the ‘karz utaro mulk sawaro’ funds, the plans of buying hundreds of acres of land up north with Indian companies to extract profits from mineral resources, the attack on Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah etc.?
Following are some of the Kartoots of your lord NS written by the same columnist, but these facts can be confirmed by googling the similar articles on this topic.
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4329 (Human Rights Groups Slam Nawaz Sharif)
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4363 (What Price Sharif Propaganda?)
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4430 (Pressure on Press from NS)
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4445 (Najam Sethi Kidnapped by NS)
If you still go in support of this Bhagora, then I would assume that, communicating with you is like banging head on the concrete wall.
#32 Posted by econfused on March 26, 2008 4:48:59 pm
Re #MeraPakistan
Following is your own sentence from #27. So prove, as your link for Shah, its HIS word against NS. He is only ex. CJ who is ok with Dictator's actions.
"There are videos on which it is shown that NS along with his cronies attacked supreme court and you are denying the facts."
Following is your own sentence from #27. So prove, as your link for Shah, its HIS word against NS. He is only ex. CJ who is ok with Dictator's actions.
"There are videos on which it is shown that NS along with his cronies attacked supreme court and you are denying the facts."
#31 Posted by econfused on March 26, 2008 4:40:14 pm
Re #29
Load of crap: DOCTRINE OF NECESSITY? is that a real law? Dictator was saving his job and not the country. First he he has to kick government out, and now to save job, he packed the judiciary. The guy will stop at nothing to save his job.
"Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: On the principle of doctrine of necessity, I think the changes in government can be justified. If there is no other alternative, no other way out, and this is the only solution available, then I think it is better to save the country, save the system then not."
Load of crap: DOCTRINE OF NECESSITY? is that a real law? Dictator was saving his job and not the country. First he he has to kick government out, and now to save job, he packed the judiciary. The guy will stop at nothing to save his job.
"Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: On the principle of doctrine of necessity, I think the changes in government can be justified. If there is no other alternative, no other way out, and this is the only solution available, then I think it is better to save the country, save the system then not."
#30 Posted by econfused on March 26, 2008 4:35:10 pm
Re #29
So again old excuses. You could not get the video, did you see my earlier post. It was a challenge, along with bet.
I firmly believe in democracy, so not voting is not an option. As there was NONE option on the ballot. Now absence of NONE does not automatically give you 55%.
As those cronies who attacked SC, they were part of thugs from 1999 to 2008.
My vote was for democracy and I am glad my voice is heard. You can wait for next coup :)
Till then, so long. Go lick your wounds!
So again old excuses. You could not get the video, did you see my earlier post. It was a challenge, along with bet.
I firmly believe in democracy, so not voting is not an option. As there was NONE option on the ballot. Now absence of NONE does not automatically give you 55%.
As those cronies who attacked SC, they were part of thugs from 1999 to 2008.
My vote was for democracy and I am glad my voice is heard. You can wait for next coup :)
Till then, so long. Go lick your wounds!
#29 Posted by MeraPakistan on March 26, 2008 11:58:23 am
Re: # 28
Sometime, you send your message across by not voting, or in other words, you are actually voting by not going to the polling station, you are voting against these corrupt and cheater politicians. But I guess, you didnot leave that choice for you.
There was 45% turn out in this election. So majority of people didnot vote, because they know that these thugs are not going to bring any good to Pakistan. Out of those 45%, almost 15% votes were taken by PPP, almost 8 percent votes were given to PML-Q and almost 7 percent votes to PML-N. Which shows that only 7% of Pakistani voters support this Bhagora.
NS didnot go by himself to attack supreme court, he has his cronies who attacked SC, in a similar way Geo Tv Station was attacked by Musharraf cronies.
It is an established fact that NS ordered the supreme court attacks. At NS times, there was only PTV, and still NS had to order attacks on SC, Dawn Karachi office etc.. Check the link and I hope you would not call this a lie.
http://www.paktoday.com/shah.htm
See how Democratic NS is, lol. Aap ki saadgi per sadkay jaawaan. :)
Sometime, you send your message across by not voting, or in other words, you are actually voting by not going to the polling station, you are voting against these corrupt and cheater politicians. But I guess, you didnot leave that choice for you.
There was 45% turn out in this election. So majority of people didnot vote, because they know that these thugs are not going to bring any good to Pakistan. Out of those 45%, almost 15% votes were taken by PPP, almost 8 percent votes were given to PML-Q and almost 7 percent votes to PML-N. Which shows that only 7% of Pakistani voters support this Bhagora.
NS didnot go by himself to attack supreme court, he has his cronies who attacked SC, in a similar way Geo Tv Station was attacked by Musharraf cronies.
It is an established fact that NS ordered the supreme court attacks. At NS times, there was only PTV, and still NS had to order attacks on SC, Dawn Karachi office etc.. Check the link and I hope you would not call this a lie.
http://www.paktoday.com/shah.htm
See how Democratic NS is, lol. Aap ki saadgi per sadkay jaawaan. :)
#28 Posted by econfused on March 26, 2008 6:08:01 am
Re: #27
I challenge you to post the video where NS was leading the attack. I bet you wont.
You also assumed I am a supporter of NS. I am a supporter of democracy. I am glad that political parties are back. As we cannot have angels on ballot, so I have to vote for the available bunch.
You are not for dictatorship :) RIGHT. I heard Musharraf is also for democracy.
I challenge you to post the video where NS was leading the attack. I bet you wont.
You also assumed I am a supporter of NS. I am a supporter of democracy. I am glad that political parties are back. As we cannot have angels on ballot, so I have to vote for the available bunch.
You are not for dictatorship :) RIGHT. I heard Musharraf is also for democracy.
#27 Posted by MeraPakistan on March 26, 2008 4:22:47 am
Re: # 26
Thats so naive of you that you presume that if I am against NS or Zardari, I am actually taking dictator side.
There are videos on which it is shown that NS along with his cronies attacked supreme court and you are denying the facts.
In my opinion they should not have let NS go on a deal. At that time, he was crying for his life as he couldnot even spend couple of days in the jail. First he was saying that there was no deal between him and Musharraf and then he accepted that the deal was for 5 yrs not 10 yrs. What is this, we all know that NS is one of the biggest liar in the history of Pakistani politics. SO I urge you to stop following your lords like a sheep, who dont think or question, they just follow the leader blindly.
Thats so naive of you that you presume that if I am against NS or Zardari, I am actually taking dictator side.
There are videos on which it is shown that NS along with his cronies attacked supreme court and you are denying the facts.
In my opinion they should not have let NS go on a deal. At that time, he was crying for his life as he couldnot even spend couple of days in the jail. First he was saying that there was no deal between him and Musharraf and then he accepted that the deal was for 5 yrs not 10 yrs. What is this, we all know that NS is one of the biggest liar in the history of Pakistani politics. SO I urge you to stop following your lords like a sheep, who dont think or question, they just follow the leader blindly.
#26 Posted by econfused on March 25, 2008 6:06:20 pm
Re #25
No, shame is on you, who prefer military dictators. NS did pass the legislation. Supreme court did not give verdict against NS in 2002 in court attack case. Go back check the facts.
Supreme court back then was trying to block the constitution amendment.
The saying of shame on you fits even more for Military supporters.
- Military Fooled you in 1958 - 1969
- Military Fooled you in 1977 - 1988
- Military Fooled you in 1999 - 2008
I am positive you haven't learned.
No, shame is on you, who prefer military dictators. NS did pass the legislation. Supreme court did not give verdict against NS in 2002 in court attack case. Go back check the facts.
Supreme court back then was trying to block the constitution amendment.
The saying of shame on you fits even more for Military supporters.
- Military Fooled you in 1958 - 1969
- Military Fooled you in 1977 - 1988
- Military Fooled you in 1999 - 2008
I am positive you haven't learned.
#25 Posted by MeraPakistan on March 25, 2008 10:50:15 am
Re: # 24
I dont want to be personal, but your nick says all about it.
If the parlianment is supreme then what is the need of attacking supreme court, NS could have passed the legislation with his so called 2/3 majority mandate. My point was that NS was doing the same thing during his tenure or may be worst what Musharraf did. NS along with PPP have been tried not one, not twice but 4 times and I can only say that,
If someone fools you once, shame on him
If someone fools you twice, Shame on you
and in NS and Zardari case, the poor awam has been bitten 4 times already.
I dont want to be personal, but your nick says all about it.
If the parlianment is supreme then what is the need of attacking supreme court, NS could have passed the legislation with his so called 2/3 majority mandate. My point was that NS was doing the same thing during his tenure or may be worst what Musharraf did. NS along with PPP have been tried not one, not twice but 4 times and I can only say that,
If someone fools you once, shame on him
If someone fools you twice, Shame on you
and in NS and Zardari case, the poor awam has been bitten 4 times already.
#24 Posted by econfused on March 25, 2008 9:08:15 am
Re #23
So instead of listening to speech of Khawaj Asif (which was the reference) you started to whine about pkpolitics. As far removal of Army chiefs and CJ, well if parliament is supreme the you have to live with that.
I am sure this Ganja Faqir along with Corrupt Zardari will give you a democracy. They are at this stage because of vote, not by barrel of gun.
So instead of listening to speech of Khawaj Asif (which was the reference) you started to whine about pkpolitics. As far removal of Army chiefs and CJ, well if parliament is supreme the you have to live with that.
I am sure this Ganja Faqir along with Corrupt Zardari will give you a democracy. They are at this stage because of vote, not by barrel of gun.
#23 Posted by MeraPakistan on March 24, 2008 11:59:23 am
Re: # 22
First of all pkpolitics.com is funded by chors like NS, and this site is totally biased, so please donot give reference to that website. I have personally visited the website, and have experienced that, if someone says against NS Bhagora, he is being labelled as MQM mafia or Musharraf lover and he gets banned from writing any more comments.
Secondly, izuber is right, when he says that why these brilliant people that you mentioned need to get under the umbrella of these political parties, which does not even have democracy within themselves and they believe in blood line and are still living in the time of "Jahiliat", and who select a 17 years old Drunkard, playboy Idiot to run the affairs of the largest party of the country because of the fake will.
This Ganja with Fake hair is talking about democracy and restoration of judges, when infact we all know that he was actually a bigger dictator than Musharraf. NS attacked supreme court, removed 2 general and a cheif justice. Now you would say that he came to office thru democracy? Do you really believe that fair elections have ever been held in Pakistan. NS won beacuse of the "Aashirvaad" from the establishment, and if you still believe that NS had mandate that Musharraf won the referendum as well with over 95% votes.
Wait for couple of months and you will see the true face of these politicians.
First of all pkpolitics.com is funded by chors like NS, and this site is totally biased, so please donot give reference to that website. I have personally visited the website, and have experienced that, if someone says against NS Bhagora, he is being labelled as MQM mafia or Musharraf lover and he gets banned from writing any more comments.
Secondly, izuber is right, when he says that why these brilliant people that you mentioned need to get under the umbrella of these political parties, which does not even have democracy within themselves and they believe in blood line and are still living in the time of "Jahiliat", and who select a 17 years old Drunkard, playboy Idiot to run the affairs of the largest party of the country because of the fake will.
This Ganja with Fake hair is talking about democracy and restoration of judges, when infact we all know that he was actually a bigger dictator than Musharraf. NS attacked supreme court, removed 2 general and a cheif justice. Now you would say that he came to office thru democracy? Do you really believe that fair elections have ever been held in Pakistan. NS won beacuse of the "Aashirvaad" from the establishment, and if you still believe that NS had mandate that Musharraf won the referendum as well with over 95% votes.
Wait for couple of months and you will see the true face of these politicians.
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