Pakistan's Long March to Democracy or Chaos

Re: # 235
hamidm2,sattar....
can you recall pre-war events (after 1991) concerning Iraq?...Iraq was subjected to inhuman sanction for more than a decade and that caused more deaths and destruction than any war....Iraq was a civilised country before 1991 (Literacy rate, women empowerment, healthcare, infant mortality rate....).
Now it is another arab country and may be little better than Pakistan....this is what US contribution towards Iraqis; brought Iraq closer to Pakistan in HDI index...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_sanctions_against_Iraq

nkg (#250),

… actually I am open to the possibility that it was all due to a typo … intelligence reports wanted to say Iran, and mistakenly said Iraq … and no one in pentagon knew the difference …

… they all behave like the uncouth arabs anyway, so I guess it really doesn’t make any difference …

Hamid mian,

dharnas, in and of itself, are not the issue. it is caving in to these dharnas that makes it problematic. "wacki pakis" (i like this) must resolve to continue on this "screwed" type of democracy. i know you will come back saying "democracy shamocracy humaaray mezaaj kay mutabic nahin." have you looked at iraq recently?

as for johnny-come-lately salman taseer, i dont know what glitterati you are talking about but he is a nobody to even the worse social climbers i have seen (and DC area is where they come for their pilgrimage or permanent residence, not Boondocks, Mich.).

hamidm #256 i admit to not visiting pakistan recently. true the gujrat boys would not be considered glitterati. but my point was - why are you so much in favor of a corrupt system and of "playing the game" when you cant even get a patwari do stop hassling you?? what good is a corrupt system when even the corrupt cant get anything done??

Hamidm#256, exactly yaar....having seen that a popularly elected gov't can cave into every thug with a "noble" mission, get ready for dharnas against dharnas.

dharna II

LAHORE: Pakistan Muslim League-N leader and former provincial law minister Rana Sanaullah has threatened to lay siege to the Governor House against the governor rule in Punjab.

........... what is next?


sufi muhammad zindabad!
baitullah mehsud zindabad!
qazi hussian ahmed zindabad!

Re: # 252

sheikh tahmed,

...... the pml-q is not part of the glitterati - qyt and hsy are ........ salman taseer wouldn't be ssen dead with the chaudhary taggas or, for that matter, the pehalwans of gowalmandi ........ he hangs out with the beautiful people and some gays ......... you really don't know anything about pakistan, do you?

paging prophetboy...paging prophetboy..


Anger in Pakistan at US plan to expand drone attacks

• Pentagon urges Obama to widen reach of strikes
• Islamabad warns of public backlash against move



* Saeed Shah in Islamabad and Ewen MacAskill in Washington
* The Guardian, Thursday 19 March 2009

Pakistan reacted with anger yesterday to an American proposal to expand its drone missile strikes inside the country against Taliban and al-Qaida targets.

Pakistani politicians and officials described the idea of extending military operations into the vast, south-west province of Baluchistan as provocative and counterproductive, and warned of a severe backlash if the US went ahead.

Sources in the US administration confirmed that the White House has received recommendations from the military about an escalation in the use of the CIA's unmanned drones to launch missile attacks. At present, attacks are confined to the tribal areas in the north-west of the country.

The recommendation calls for a renewed focus on targets in the economically backward province which has provided a stronghold for the Afghan Taliban and a sanctuary for al-Qaida elements. A source cautioned that Obama has not made a decision and could decide any military gains from expansion into Baluchistan may be outweighed by the public backlash, putting at risk the Pakistan government.

There is a reluctance to go into Baluchistan and the US hopes Pakistan's forces will fight the Taliban and al-Qaida. The US is to provide Pakistan's forces with increased military and civilian aid. The White House refused to comment on the possibility of using drones in Baluchistan.

The recommendation is part of a review of Afghanistan and Pakistan policy ordered by Barack Obama when he took over the White House in January.

The Washington Post reported on its website last night that another recommendation in the review is to send hundreds more US civilians to Afghanistan to beef up reconstruction. They would be drawn from departments such as agriculture and justice, and reflect the desire to match the military effort with a civilian one.

There is a reluctance in the US to start using the drones in Baluchistan, even though senior Taliban and al-Qaida figures operate from bases there with impunity. The Afghan government says Mullah Muhammad Omar, the Taliban leader, is based in Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan.

Abdul Basit, a Pakistan foreign office spokesman, responding to disclosure of the plan in the New York Times, expressed opposition: "As we have been saying all along, we believe such attacks are counter-productive. They involve collateral damage and they are not helpful in our efforts to win hearts and minds."

The Pakistani government, which described the report as speculative, has denounced such attacks as undermining the country's sovereignty.

Munawar Hassan, secretary general of Jamaat-i-Islami, Pakistan's biggest mainstream religious party, said the US would be pouring petrol on an already incendiary situation. "The United States has no message of peace for the world, they can only talk through arms and armaments," he said.

There has been disappointment in Pakistan that Obama has continued to use drones for attacks, a policy he inherited from the Bush administration. While al-Qaida operatives have been killed, innocent civilians have also died.

The US military regards the ability of Taliban and al-Qaida forces to conduct operations from havens in Pakistan as one of its biggest problems in Afghanistan.

US military recommendations also include the possibility of ground attacks by special forces in Baluchistan.

US forces conducted their first known ground raid in Pakistan last September, causing uproar.
Quetta: Taliban capital

Quetta is a frontier city about a three-hour drive from Kandahar in Afghanistan. During the British empire, it was a garrison and still has a large army cantonment. The provincial capital of Baluchistan, a vast, sparsely populated region, has since the 1980s become the home of tens of thousands of Afghan refugees, fleeing war in their home country. The ethnic Baluch are in a minority in the city, which is dominated by Pashtuns, the biggest ethnic group in Afghanistan, making it easy for Afghans to melt into Quetta. After 9/11, when the US and allies invaded Afghan, it is said that the Taliban leadership shifted from Kandahar to Quetta. Most notoriously, the high altitude city of about one million people is home to the "Quetta shura", the Taliban's ruling council, which directs the insurgency across the border.

Re: createalpha #211

My point exactly--look at who is backing the CJ (and even if one ignores his own background) and it becomes pretty clear that the CJ is being used to prepare the way for their own resumption of power. It is hilarious how every Pakistani politician becomes such a Usoolbaaz when out of power and reverts to their aslihat as soon as they get in power!

BTW, NS is not a feudal; he is (originally) from a lower middle class background. Our resident expert on all things sociological will be happy to enlighten us ad nauseum on the connection between fascism and the lower middle class--assuming he actually knows anything.

hamidm #243 when are the gliterrati of pml-q going to help you from stop getting the run around by a patwari???

Re: # 233
Alpha...
This is one step forward for a musla country/society, where people are not using "allahooo kaboom" to score any point...though this is minor deviation from islam, but somehow more civilised...suppose NS formed a armed gang and killed the existing SC judges and Zardari and installed its own set of judges....at least, it was nor armed revolution...may be, US forced the change in method....

Re: # 219
sattar...
GWBush has little less knowledge about geograpy and attacked Iraq, instead of your neighbouring Iran...little deviation of 1000km at most. Why don't you accept it as minor abberation? Somehow, the US marines has to use their armament somewhere. If it is not nuclear Iran, what else it would be?

JI concerned over prospects of more drone attacks
Thursday, March 19, 2009
By Our Correspondent

LAHORE

JAMAAT-E-ISLAMI secretary general Syed Munawar Hasan has expressed serious concern over the reports of Washington, considering expansion of drone attacks to Balochistan.

M


He said now that Swat peace deal brought peace in NWFP, Washington was trying to expand the ugly war to Balochistan on the pretext of Taliban.

He demanded that Islamabad should lodge strong protest with Washington on such moves, endangering country’s security and solidarity otherwise Washington could soon push this war to Sindh and Punjab also.

//////////at least the JI guy is very sensible, he knows that the drones are sure to come to sindh and punjab. Good on you JI leader, keep reading my posts.

#202 by majumdar

There are no angels in politics but for whatever reasons, NS has supported the right cause. Yes, I am aware of his bad behaviour in the past but then every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

How nice of you Majumdar bhai! I only wish you'd extended the same courtesy to Gandhi too. Or is it that only Pakis allowed to reform?

#202 by majumdar

There are no angels in politics but for whatever reasons, NS has supported the right cause. Yes, I am aware of his bad behaviour in the past but then every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

How nice of you Majumdar bhai! I only wish you'd extended the same courtesy to Gandhi too. Or is it that only Pakis allowed to reform?